Logs on 2023-05-18 (liberachat/#haskell)
| 00:01:23 | <blueonyx> | heya, can someone point me to how to get rid of the case of case of in this? https://paste.tomsmeding.com/sQw3KMiM |
| 00:01:44 | <blueonyx> | or shall i ask in #haskell-lens? |
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| 00:26:35 | <[Leary]> | blueonyx: Perhaps `pure do { (_, cj) <- res; maybe (throwError $ ParseFail "missing 'id' field") (pure . (, cj) . DocId) md }`, though `maybe` might not be an improvement over `case`. |
| 00:27:28 | <blueonyx> | thanks! will look into it |
| 00:28:34 | <dminuoso> | blueonyx: I would consider a combinator like `note` maybe |
| 00:30:31 | <blueonyx> | thanks! will look into that too |
| 00:31:25 | <[Leary]> | Ah, I was looking for something like that. That would simplify it down to `pure do { (_, cj) <- res; note (ParseFail "missing 'id' field") ((, cj) . DocId <$> md) }`. |
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| 00:36:54 | <blueonyx> | where do i import `note` from? |
| 00:37:08 | <blueonyx> | and i need TupleSections right? |
| 00:38:21 | <dminuoso> | Sure, you can also use a separate do-block statement with a pure instead. |
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| 00:39:28 | <blueonyx> | note is from errors Control.Error.Util? |
| 00:39:35 | <dminuoso> | Not needed |
| 00:39:42 | <dminuoso> | You can just define it on the spot yourself: note a = maybe (Left a) Right |
| 00:39:51 | <dminuoso> | https://gist.github.com/dminuoso/8bfb756ea3eed1651f3616696e204fad |
| 00:39:51 | <blueonyx> | ok thanks |
| 00:39:52 | <dminuoso> | Something like this |
| 00:40:08 | <dminuoso> | Might still need a ($) if you dont like using BlockArguments |
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| 00:40:41 | <blueonyx> | added that already yea |
| 00:40:44 | <dminuoso> | Oh nwait |
| 00:40:52 | <dminuoso> | For that `note` you would need a flipped note. |
| 00:41:43 | <dminuoso> | Updated my gist if you care to see what I mean |
| 00:42:15 | <dminuoso> | Im personally quite fond of using `note` like this a lot. |
| 00:42:22 | <blueonyx> | no |
| 00:42:30 | <blueonyx> | the unflipped compiles |
| 00:43:01 | <blueonyx> | yea will need some time to figure it out, but looks neat yea |
| 00:43:03 | <dminuoso> | It's wrong either way |
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| 00:43:31 | <blueonyx> | O.o |
| 00:43:48 | <dminuoso> | blueonyx: Another slight optimization is that you can stuff the ParseFail into note if you make use of this more often |
| 00:44:29 | <dminuoso> | Consider this: https://gist.github.com/dminuoso/8bfb756ea3eed1651f3616696e204fad |
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| 00:50:49 | <blueonyx> | thanks again, i will! |
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| 04:12:46 | <Inst> | wait, is CPS + defunctionalization just a hylomorphism? |
| 04:12:57 | <Inst> | since, you're converting data into a recursive data structure, then folding it |
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| 04:22:51 | <probie> | That doesn't sound unreasonable to me |
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| 04:48:09 | <probie> | but what would your base functor look like? or even what does your defunctionalised CPS look like? |
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| 06:32:25 | <probie> | I think executing defunctionlised CPS is actually just some kind of catamorphism |
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| 06:45:50 | <probie> | Inst: unless I misunderstood what you meant by "CPS + defunctionalization", I'm 99% sure it's just a kind of catamorphism https://paste.tomsmeding.com/XCSDFew7 |
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| 07:51:43 | <kuribas> | How would you handle caching of dataframes? For example in a complex calculation with many timeseries that depend on each other. |
| 07:51:57 | <kuribas> | And some maybe recalculated often. |
| 07:53:06 | <sm> | I would see if slapping https://hackage.haskell.org/package/uglymemo on it worked |
| 07:53:46 | <kuribas> | Isn't there a nice abstraction layer, for example representing the calculation as a graph? |
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| 07:56:28 | <kuribas> | If I have to go the unsafePerformIO route, I just may as well run the calculations in IO. |
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| 08:00:36 | <[exa]> | kuribas: you get it for kinda free with normal memoization, no? |
| 08:01:25 | <kuribas> | yeah, but I want to also cache to disk. |
| 08:01:34 | <[exa]> | mmap? |
| 08:01:53 | <kuribas> | hmm |
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| 08:02:54 | <[exa]> | anyway yeah with disk it is a bit more complex because you have a part of the computation that you can "memoize" (generate data, offload to disk) and a part that you want to avoid memoizing (loading the data from disk, because if you memoize it everything gets in-memory) |
| 08:03:28 | <[exa]> | can you assign some representable IDs to all subresults? |
| 08:03:34 | <kuribas> | sure |
| 08:03:37 | <kuribas> | I could annotated it. |
| 08:03:44 | <kuribas> | Or use a generator pattern. |
| 08:03:59 | <kuribas> | (A monadic builder). |
| 08:04:07 | <sm> | store em in postgres |
| 08:04:18 | <[exa]> | then some tiny wrap around IO would work IMO |
| 08:04:22 | <kuribas> | sqlite then. |
| 08:05:46 | <[exa]> | anyway if you want it to actually react to haskell laziness (as in, do not compute something if it is not expicitly requested by pure computation), you probably won't be able to dodge some unsafeIO |
| 08:06:47 | <kuribas> | No, not necessarily lazyness, maybe some algebraic way to compose computations over dataframs. |
| 08:06:53 | <[exa]> | (or at least I can't fathom any other way that could translate lazy thunk evaluation to IO actions) |
| 08:07:23 | <kuribas> | Also would be nice is a way to test partially if only part of the computation change |
| 08:07:44 | <sm> | something something streams something FRP ? |
| 08:07:48 | <kuribas> | For example, saving the intermediary computations to disk, and only performing those that have changed. |
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| 08:08:04 | <kuribas> | sm: yeah, something FRP like. |
| 08:08:10 | <[exa]> | one thing you can do is to have something like `df <- namedData "myID" $ computeData ... ...`, and namedData just shortcircuits if the data has already been computed |
| 08:08:14 | <sm> | reactive frameworks are dependency graphs |
| 08:08:22 | <sm> | reflex I'm thinking |
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| 08:08:44 | <kuribas> | sm: indeed, but I must be able to hack them to get good tests. |
| 08:08:45 | <[exa]> | hm FRP is good intuition |
| 08:08:50 | <[exa]> | I was thinking more about make/Shake |
| 08:09:36 | <sm> | oh Shake, yeah that too |
| 08:09:38 | <kuribas> | So basically, I want to redo the computation if the source code for some function changed. |
| 08:10:29 | <kuribas> | I suppose I could make a script that takes the source code and outputs the names of changed functions. |
| 08:10:34 | <kuribas> | Then feed it into the computation. |
| 08:10:45 | <[exa]> | well, make. |
| 08:11:49 | <[exa]> | you'd need something to discover dependencies from the scripts though, which you probably don't want to declare twice |
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| 08:12:06 | <[exa]> | gcc and pals have the -MD functionality that just print out the deps, which might work |
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| 08:17:25 | <[Leary]> | It's Incremental Computing again... kuribas, If you want to do this in Haskell, I have a small (<200 lines) IC implementation you can look over or adapt as you please: https://gist.github.com/LSLeary/da963da122946d981b4b143cbcf3dd73 |
| 08:17:51 | <kuribas> | [Leary]: indeed, thanks! |
| 08:18:31 | <[exa]> | oh wow |
| 08:18:32 | <kuribas> | With the caveat that not only the input can change, but also the implementation of a function. |
| 08:18:33 | <[exa]> | cool |
| 08:18:46 | <sm> | woah |
| 08:20:13 | <kuribas> | However, that could be modelled as a versioned input. Like, you have a database of versions for each function, and you pass the version to the computation. |
| 08:20:27 | <kuribas> | So if I update the version of a function, it will have to redo the computation. |
| 08:20:56 | <sm> | that looks very clever. I guess it's all in memory and maybe a bit hard to inspect/troubleshoot ? |
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| 08:27:08 | <[Leary]> | It's indeed not easy to use (and get right) in practice, but that comes with the territory. Some graph-inspection logic could be shimmied in pretty easily though. |
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| 08:30:52 | <[Leary]> | kuribas: In this implementation, `writeICVar` and friends take an `Adaptive` recipe/function, so updating inputs and functions is the same, and you'd just use `pure` for the former. |
| 08:31:17 | <kuribas> | right |
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| 09:42:50 | <ski> | "Monads for Incremental Computing" (Functional Pearl) by Magnus Carlsson in 2002 (ICFP) at <https://web.archive.org/web/20091114092258/http://www.carlssonia.org/~magnus/ogi/papers/icfp-2002.pdf>,<https://web.archive.org/web/20091114092258/http://www.carlssonia.org/ogi/Adaptive/>,<https://hackage.haskell.org/package/Adaptive> |
| 09:42:55 | <ski> | "Adaptive Functional Programming" by Umut Acar,Blelloch,Harper in 2002 (POPL) at <https://web.archive.org/web/20211028132646//http://www.umut-acar.org/publications/popl2002.pdf> and in 2006 (TOPLAS) at <https://web.archive.org/web/20211028132646//http://www.umut-acar.org/publications/toplas2006.pdf> |
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| 09:44:04 | <ski> | kuribas : fwiw ^ |
| 09:47:45 | <fendor[m]> | this channel sometimes feels like an easier way to find papers than google |
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| 09:54:09 | <geekosaur> | ski is our paper search engine 🙂 |
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| 09:56:17 | <ski> | [Leary] : `s' ? |
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| 10:08:55 | <carbolymer> | there was an issue with ghc with certain kernel versions tha it couldn't allocate memory |
| 10:08:57 | <carbolymer> | recently |
| 10:09:05 | <carbolymer> | do we know which kernel versions are affected? |
| 10:09:17 | <carbolymer> | s/kernel/ghc & kernel |
| 10:10:44 | <geekosaur> | ghc < 9.4, kernel info in https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=282429 except it seems 6.2.13 is also affected |
| 10:11:25 | <carbolymer> | seem I'm having it on 6.3.1 |
| 10:11:39 | [Leary] | ctrl+c's `ski -v0` to invoke `ski -v3`. |
| 10:11:46 | <carbolymer> | ah yeah, someone mentions in that thread 6.3 already |
| 10:11:47 | <[Leary]> | ski: Ahem. Could you repeat the question? |
| 10:11:48 | <carbolymer> | thanks geekosaur |
| 10:12:07 | ski | . o O ( <https://discourse.haskell.org/t/facing-mmap-4096-bytes-at-nil-cannot-allocate-memory-youre-not-alone/6259> ) |
| 10:12:29 | <ski> | [Leary] : just wondering where the `s' in `ICVar s' came from .. you had an `ST'-based version ? |
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| 10:13:12 | <gnalzo> | links for pdf about adaptive are broken. I found them here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OfcnkoTCxWUaTGc570oV-D8fWx30Lvtx/view (popl2002) and https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bAYubdbZ9VjO_y5-DoYXKSiuyid0sX4Z/view (toplas2006.pdf) from https://www.umut-acar.org/publications, if it's useful |
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| 10:16:01 | <ski> | oh .. sorry, i should probably have checked the contexts of the link, not just checked they could be downloaded |
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| 10:16:38 | <ski> | (er, s/contexts/contents/) |
| 10:16:59 | <[Leary]> | ski: Ohh... some of the docs are out of date. Right, so earlier versions of this weren't actually based on the ST monad, but I was using the same idea to scope ICVars, as there were operations on them that would be undefined or incorrect if they escaped the monad they were (previously) bound to. Refactoring eliminated this outer monad and the scoping issues. |
| 10:17:14 | <ski> | (<https://web.archive.org/web/20211028132646/http://www.umut-acar.org/publications> and <https://web.archive.org/web/20230104064536/https://www.umut-acar.org/publications> resolve, anyway) |
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| 10:17:25 | <ski> | gnalzo : ty |
| 10:17:48 | <ski> | ah, ic, [Leary] |
| 10:18:28 | <[Leary]> | ic indeed |
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| 10:26:32 | <gnalzo> | ski: np |
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| 10:30:56 | <ski> | hm, looks like <https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.8.3014> works for the Carlsson one |
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| 10:39:39 | ski | updated the `where's accordingly |
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| 11:03:52 | <ski> | <ski> merijn : i'm wondering if it would be better to have `liftResult' in a superclass of `Validate', avoiding the `Proxy' argument (btw, couldn't that be `proxy a' ?) |
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| 11:26:39 | dminuoso | wishes we had a high performance JSON library built right into base |
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| 11:26:51 | <dminuoso> | Or as some boot library for all I care |
| 11:27:27 | <dminuoso> | With a minimal dependency footprint. :S |
| 11:28:04 | <jade[m]> | what's the issue with using a small library? |
| 11:28:25 | <geekosaur> | there's no small libraries. there's aeson and waargonaut |
| 11:28:25 | <dminuoso> | jade[m]: There are no high performance minimal footprint libraries out there. |
| 11:28:35 | <dminuoso> | geekosaur: well there is `json` which is fairly minimal |
| 11:28:38 | <dminuoso> | but its also somewhat slow |
| 11:30:08 | <dminuoso> | And it doesnt come with T.Text, which is somewhat annoying. |
| 11:32:58 | <probie> | When you say "high performance", what do you mean? |
| 11:35:41 | <dminuoso> | Maximal encoding/decoding throughput. |
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| 11:37:48 | <probie> | and decoding to/from arbitrary ADTs, or to/from some equivalent of Aeson's `Value` type? |
| 11:38:54 | <dminuoso> | Sure. |
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| 11:39:19 | <dminuoso> | Well any sane library would expose both of course. |
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| 15:39:31 | <zzz> | :t succ 1.0 |
| 15:39:32 | <lambdabot> | (Enum a, Fractional a) => a |
| 15:40:00 | <zzz> | ^ how is this possible? |
| 15:40:43 | <int-e> | There are Enum instances for Float and Double to make [0,0.1..1] work. |
| 15:41:03 | <zzz> | so is this a Float or a Double? |
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| 15:41:38 | <int-e> | With the instances in base, yes I think that's all... err, Rational too. |
| 15:41:49 | <int-e> | > [0,0.1..1] :: [Rational] |
| 15:41:51 | <lambdabot> | [0 % 1,1 % 10,1 % 5,3 % 10,2 % 5,1 % 2,3 % 5,7 % 10,4 % 5,9 % 10,1 % 1] |
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| 15:41:57 | <int-e> | > [0,0.1..1] :: [Ratio Int] |
| 15:41:59 | <lambdabot> | [0 % 1,1 % 10,1 % 5,3 % 10,2 % 5,1 % 2,3 % 5,7 % 10,4 % 5,9 % 10,1 % 1] |
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| 15:45:06 | <geekosaur> | defaulting will make it `Double` |
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| 15:46:30 | <zzz> | i guess my question is how can ghci show something that has no concrete type |
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| 15:46:41 | <ski> | what geekosaur said |
| 15:46:41 | <zzz> | is it "magic"? |
| 15:47:03 | <geekosaur> | look up defaulting in the Haskell Report |
| 15:47:12 | <ski> | @where report |
| 15:47:12 | <lambdabot> | http://www.haskell.org/onlinereport/haskell2010/ (more: http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Definition) |
| 15:47:19 | <geekosaur> | "the default default is (Integer, Double)" |
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| 15:47:51 | <geekosaur> | so it will try Integer and if it doesn't typecheck it will try Double |
| 15:48:05 | <geekosaur> | (ghci will try a few others as well but those are the important two) |
| 15:49:19 | <zzz> | oh i know why i'm confused. i thought ghci showed the default type |
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| 15:51:27 | <ski> | not with `:type' |
| 15:52:21 | <zzz> | i'm pretty sure it used to |
| 15:53:12 | <geekosaur> | no, `:t` always shows the most general type, `default`ing is only applied when it needs a concrete type |
| 15:53:48 | <geekosaur> | that said, if you `let` it used to monomorphise |
| 15:54:07 | <geekosaur> | but these days the monomorphism restriction is disabled in ghci by default |
| 15:54:30 | <zzz> | right. that may be it |
| 15:54:57 | <zzz> | thanks |
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| 16:37:17 | <albet70> | what is Tardis monad? |
| 16:37:36 | <geekosaur> | reversible state monad |
| 16:38:01 | <geekosaur> | …at a price (it's sloooow) |
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| 16:42:02 | <albet70> | is there a classic usage? |
| 16:42:45 | <ncf> | if time is flowing backwards, no wonder things are slow... |
| 16:43:36 | <geekosaur> | not sure I've ever seen one that wasn't better done some other way. it's clever, not necessarily useful |
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| 16:46:24 | <albet70> | the creator must be a doctor who fan |
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| 16:47:11 | <davean> | albet70: There are some problems that are very easy to solve expressed that way - particularly when merged with forward state |
| 16:47:27 | <davean> | like something that behaves as a monoid of something forward and backwards |
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| 17:16:18 | <bwe> | when to use Double, when Scientific? |
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| 17:20:45 | <sm> | when Decimal, when Rational.. |
| 17:21:02 | <geekosaur> | CReal… |
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| 18:57:18 | <DigitalKiwi> | make sure to use Double when you're working with currency and want to steal from Initech |
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| 19:11:22 | <sm> | don't forget Complex, Imaginary, and Irrational |
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| 19:11:41 | <darkling> | That's *advanced* accountancy. |
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| 19:15:41 | <DigitalKiwi> | that's just Futures trading |
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| 19:26:13 | <juri_> | Projective Geometric Accountancy? |
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| 19:40:36 | <DigitalKiwi> | https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/13i2ewm/whats_the_best_decimal_library_for_financial/ |
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All times are in UTC on 2023-05-18.