Logs on 2023-05-21 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 00:56:21 | <Inst> | is there a way to use a package in cabal that a dependency uses, but without importing it yourself? |
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| 05:26:18 | <Inst> | ::smug:: |
| 05:26:42 | <Inst> | I hope FJVallarino accepts my commit, but probably not |
| 05:27:29 | <Inst> | let's see, how many semantic elements are in edifice's hello world |
| 05:29:12 | <Inst> | yup, can potentially beat edifice: |
| 05:29:26 | <Inst> | 8 semantic elements vs 12 in edifice |
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| 10:12:54 | <ncf> | is there a function to unsafely convert a Traversal to a Lens, when i know there's exactly one value and i don't have a Monoid instance? |
| 10:13:22 | <ncf> | :t singular |
| 10:13:24 | <lambdabot> | (Conjoined p, Functor f) => Traversing p f s t a a -> Over p f s t a a |
| 10:13:27 | <ncf> | cool |
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| 12:16:51 | <tomsmeding> | Inst[m]: I don't think so |
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| 18:46:44 | <justsomeguy> | What happened to Haskell Wingman? It seems like it just dissapeared off the map... |
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| 18:51:04 | <justsomeguy> | It seems like it was absorbed by hasekell-language-server, maybe? https://github.com/haskell/haskell-language-server/tree/b84110b508e2f30899b84ffc3928a5e20be1615f/plugins/hls-tactics-plugin/old/src/Wingman |
| 18:51:46 | <Hecate> | ask Sandy Maguire |
| 18:52:53 | <justsomeguy> | Did you think Sandy would respond to a random internet stranger? I mean, it can't hurt to try... |
| 18:56:03 | <ncf> | something i heard literally yesterday on the univalent agda discord: > One of the big reasons wingman isn’t maintained right now: program synthesis is a lot easier than printing! |
| 18:56:40 | <geekosaur> | 🙂 |
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| 19:27:48 | <justsomeguy> | I'm reading "Monads for Functional Programming" by Wadler. In section 4, there is an interpreter for arrays. It has a function, newarray :: Val -> Arr. Is there a function in Data.Array that can give me something similar to :: [a] -> Array (Int,a) [a] so I can try this out in the repl? |
| 19:28:23 | <justsomeguy> | I'm just generally confused by arrays, to be honest. |
| 19:28:45 | <jade[m]> | why is that? |
| 19:28:49 | <justsomeguy> | ...maybe I want listArray... |
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| 19:30:18 | <monochrom> | The code in the paper is not going to be tryable in GHC. |
| 19:30:56 | <justsomeguy> | Not directly, sure. The list related stuff was pretty easy to translate into real Haskell so far. |
| 19:31:07 | <monochrom> | But if you use Data.Array, it's [a] -> Array Int a |
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| 19:31:35 | <monochrom> | or whatever the actual type of listArray is. |
| 19:31:41 | <ncf> | isn't wadler always insisting that code included in a paper should compile as-is :p |
| 19:31:54 | <ncf> | (granted, it's an old paper) |
| 19:32:19 | <monochrom> | Oh good luck compiling the ⋆ operator! |
| 19:33:08 | <justsomeguy> | ⋆ ≡ (>>=) |
| 19:33:25 | <ncf> | UnicodeSyntax? |
| 19:33:38 | <monochrom> | The paper predates UnicodeSyntax. |
| 19:33:44 | <justsomeguy> | Ohhhh |
| 19:33:52 | <monochrom> | No way the paper was compilable at its time. |
| 19:34:03 | <justsomeguy> | I was just saying that the star symbol can be translated into bind. |
| 19:34:35 | <justsomeguy> | I'm just typing it out in an ad-hoc way and trying my best to make a reasonable translation. Getting a little hairy now. |
| 19:35:12 | <monochrom> | Yeah I don't think old Haskell had an "Arr" type either. |
| 19:35:26 | <justsomeguy> | ^_^ |
| 19:36:30 | justsomeguy | decides to give the paper a good read-through without trying the code first, and to circle back and translate the code in a second pass. |
| 19:37:15 | <justsomeguy> | Anyways, it's a pretty good paper. I think monads are starting to click, but though I can't explain them if someone asked. |
| 19:43:32 | <ski> | @type listArray |
| 19:43:33 | <lambdabot> | Ix i => (i, i) -> [e] -> Array i e |
| 19:44:47 | <ski> | > let ix = (-2,3) in listArray ix [i^2 | i <- range ix] |
| 19:44:48 | <lambdabot> | array (-2,3) [(-2,4),(-1,1),(0,0),(1,1),(2,4),(3,9)] |
| 19:45:02 | <monochrom> | It is the monad tutorial I wanted to write. :) |
| 19:45:30 | <monochrom> | Only downside is the code is bitrot, and also some code were hypothetical even back then. |
| 19:45:56 | <ski> | the interpreter thing isn't a bad take on it |
| 19:46:04 | <ski> | (considering denotational semantics) |
| 19:46:16 | <justsomeguy> | So... do you think it's accurate to say that the way Monad is used comprises a design pattern? |
| 19:46:18 | <monochrom> | My plan of cloning it and updating/fixing the code is in my backlog at number 29308 or something :) |
| 19:46:21 | ski | Moggis |
| 19:46:53 | <monochrom> | Yeah considering the single most and first application of monads to CS. |
| 19:46:57 | <ski> | justsomeguy : .. sortof ? but when you actually can formulate a type class `Monad', it becomes more than just a design pattern |
| 19:47:03 | <monochrom> | or at least s/CS/programming/ |
| 19:47:18 | <ski> | (in other languages, where you can't do that, it's just a design pattern, yes) |
| 19:47:39 | <monochrom> | In fact if you use monads for an EDSL you are still under "monad for denotational semantics of your language". |
| 19:47:53 | <ski> | @quote too.inexpressive |
| 19:47:54 | <lambdabot> | Cale says: Design patterns are signs that the language you're using is too inexpressive. Otherwise they'd just be libraries. |
| 19:48:34 | <monochrom> | I think we can relax the definition of "design patterns" to include the choice of using monads. |
| 19:49:10 | <ski> | (well, more and less) |
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| 19:51:31 | <monochrom> | Me, I came from seeing how some math topics find applications to program structures, so... design pattern = DST = domain-specific theory |
| 19:52:19 | <monochrom> | So when I say "yes it's a design pattern" I am being polite to programmers because I know that they are afraid of the word "theory". |
| 19:52:30 | <justsomeguy> | :D |
| 19:53:03 | <monochrom> | But make no mistake, it is theory, in the same sense that you can have group theory, monoid theory, category theory. |
| 19:53:53 | <monochrom> | Actually I think mathematicians would agree with the "pattern" part. |
| 19:55:03 | <monochrom> | If you ask mathematicians what they do, some of them say "we're looking for patterns". For example, noticing that many things follow the pattern that became codified as the axioms for groups. So, group theory = group pattern. |
| 19:56:16 | <darkling> | I was agreeing with that point about 5 lines ago. (As a defrocked mathematician) |
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| 19:56:58 | <monochrom> | Recognizing that in programming, "theory" is NSFW? >:) |
| 19:57:21 | <darkling> | More, design pattern = DST = domain-specific theory |
| 19:57:26 | <monochrom> | :) |
| 19:58:42 | → | freeside joins (~mengwong@103.252.202.151) |
| 19:58:49 | <darkling> | I once worked with someone who'd read the whole design patterns book, and *everything* was a design pattern to him. |
| 19:59:15 | <darkling> | As in, the patterns were the only architectural building blocks he would use. |
| 19:59:23 | <darkling> | Made things a bit difficult. |
| 20:03:05 | × | freeside quits (~mengwong@103.252.202.151) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 20:05:36 | <justsomeguy> | You know, monochrom, your thoughtful comments have really helped me out over the years. I wish I could take a course with you, or just hang out irl over a coffee. Probably won't happen, but I appreciate you, anyways. |
| 20:06:18 | × | _ht quits (~Thunderbi@28-52-174-82.ftth.glasoperator.nl) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 20:09:56 | <justsomeguy> | haha, too sappy? |
| 20:12:32 | <justsomeguy> | Actually, I could say the same for most of you here. |
| 20:14:19 | <DigitalKiwi> | awe thanks |
| 20:14:27 | <justsomeguy> | :D |
| 20:15:18 | <DigitalKiwi> | mniip wednesdays my birthday btw lol you usually try and remember <3 |
| 20:16:06 | <APic> | 😌 |
| 20:18:02 | <jean-paul[m]> | I kind of understand the "Could not deduce ..." this - https://gist.github.com/exarkun/17f9a5bd01eda35eb6632dff862b7bae - results in, maybe. But I'm not sure what to do about it. I do notice that changing it to `diminish :: r -> m v` makes it go away but I don't really need `m` there. |
| 20:24:03 | × | vandita quits (~vandit@84-236-21-26.pool.digikabel.hu) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 20:25:20 | <ncf> | split it into two classes? |
| 20:25:46 | → | vandita joins (~vandit@178-164-188-56.pool.digikabel.hu) |
| 20:26:07 | <ncf> | otherwise you'll have duplicate definitions of diminish anyway -- if you know you won't, then maybe add a fundep r or v -> m ? |
| 20:26:32 | <ncf> | well, i guess r -> v m |
| 20:27:35 | <jean-paul[m]> | How can you tell there will be duplicate definitions of diminish? |
| 20:28:51 | <ncf> | i mean if you have multiple instances for the same r and v but different m... unless you're using m in the definition of diminish somehow, but that seems unsafe |
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| 20:32:41 | <jean-paul[m]> | Hm. I'll have to think about that a bit. But .. splitting the typeclass in two might make sense anyway. And I think I see how making the functional dependency `r -> v m` also solves the problem, so I'll play with those a bit too. Thanks. |
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| 20:57:50 | <ski> | @quote make.no.mistake |
| 20:57:50 | <lambdabot> | monochrom says: <monochrom> Me, I came from seeing how some math topics find applications to program structures, so... design pattern = DST = domain-specific theory <monochrom> So when I say "yes |
| 20:57:50 | <lambdabot> | it's a design pattern" I am being polite to programmers because I know that they are afraid of the word "theory". <monochrom> But make no mistake, it is theory, in the same sense that you can have |
| 20:57:50 | <lambdabot> | group theory, monoid theory, category theory. |
| 20:58:32 | <Rembane> | Good quote |
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| 20:59:39 | <ski> | (had to use a different client to make it fit, hence you didn't see the `@remember <nick> <message>' command) |
| 21:01:36 | × | bgs quits (~bgs@212-85-160-171.dynamic.telemach.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 21:02:11 | <Rembane> | Nice. I can see why the limits exist but they aren't very good for quote bots. |
| 21:03:21 | <ski> | well, my client arbitarily splits messages, a bit below the actual message limit (presumably because it's hard to predict where it's actually at, due to different lengths of server names, and possibly other things) |
| 21:03:29 | <ski> | i wish i could turn that off, with a setting |
| 21:03:38 | <Rembane> | Like :set paste in vim |
| 21:04:13 | <ski> | (this is a semi-recent change. it used to just silently clip the message, without informing you of that .. i learned to predict around where the limit would be, and adjust accordingly) |
| 21:04:30 | <int-e> | The IRC protocol has a message length limit. |
| 21:04:34 | <ski> | yea |
| 21:04:40 | <ski> | iirc, `512' or so |
| 21:04:49 | <int-e> | Yeah, including the cr/lf newline |
| 21:04:53 | ski | nods |
| 21:05:42 | <hpc> | and including all the extra stuff, so long usernames mean you can't send as much message text |
| 21:05:53 | <ski> | mm |
| 21:06:04 | <int-e> | Rembane: so going over that limit, minus a few dozen bytes, would require extra multi-line editing capabilities in the bot. And then the resulting super-long quotes would have to be relayed back over IRC. It's already silly with the single quote broken into three messages above. |
| 21:06:40 | <Rembane> | int-e: Yeah. That sounds messy or something that a future IRC standard could support. |
| 21:06:48 | → | freeside joins (~mengwong@103.252.202.151) |
| 21:07:27 | <ski> | it does look like lambdabot is perhaps slightly a bit too conservative, in where it splits. could have up to close to double the length at which it seems to split, i think |
| 21:07:32 | <int-e> | It's more than traditional Twitter (even after The Doubling) :-P |
| 21:07:38 | → | szkl joins (uid110435@id-110435.uxbridge.irccloud.com) |
| 21:07:40 | <ski> | hehe |
| 21:07:55 | <ski> | for the most part, i find the message limit on IRC comfortable |
| 21:10:00 | ski | imagines an IRC client that allows to send messages with NLs before the final CRLF |
| 21:10:18 | <ski> | (i guess perhaps servers, or other clients, might not handle that too well) |
| 21:11:16 | <Rembane> | That sounds a bit like how Erlang looks. |
| 21:11:19 | × | freeside quits (~mengwong@103.252.202.151) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 21:11:24 | <ski> | hm, howso ? |
| 21:11:30 | <int-e> | ski: You're not allowed to use CR, LF, or NUL inside the messages. |
| 21:11:36 | <ski> | oh .. with the `;' inbetween the clauses |
| 21:11:46 | <ski> | .. i actually don't like that, in Erlang |
| 21:11:52 | <Rembane> | Yeah, loads of semicolons and then a dot. |
| 21:11:57 | <ski> | (inside `if' and `case' and `receive', it's fine) |
| 21:12:09 | <ski> | (because `;' in Prolog means "or", not "and") |
| 21:12:33 | <ski> | int-e : figures |
| 21:12:42 | <Rembane> | I also find the Erlang syntax awkward. I went directly from Haskell to Erlang and that was awkward in so many ways. |
| 21:12:53 | <ski> | Rembane : did you see Prolog, before ? |
| 21:13:01 | <Rembane> | Is it allowed to use formfeed inside IRC messages? |
| 21:13:24 | <Rembane> | ski: Maybe five years earlier, so I had forgotten it before I started programming Erlang. |
| 21:13:30 | <int-e> | Rembane: yes, all other octets are fine |
| 21:13:41 | <Rembane> | int-e: That's strangely exciting. |
| 21:13:43 | <ski> | (Erlang syntax comes partly from Prolog. also some of its more unusual features, as an FPL, comes from there. it was initially implemented in Prolog. iirc, it even has (or had) grammar rules for some meta-programming or something) |
| 21:14:03 | <ski> | Rembane : (re formfeed) -- i don't see why noy |
| 21:14:07 | <int-e> | Rembane: as far as the protocol goes at least... what clients do with this, I don't know |
| 21:14:09 | <ski> | not |
| 21:14:10 | <ski> | actually, let me check a thing |
| 21:14:59 | <ski> | mhm, seems <https://modern.ircdocs.horse/formatting.html#characters> doesn't list formfeed as a special color/markup control code |
| 21:15:41 | <ski> | here, the client just displays control codes it doesn't understant/interpret, in inverse video |
| 21:16:06 | × | gmg quits (~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 21:16:23 | <Rembane> | ski: I don't think new page really means anything in IRC, or have I missed something important? |
| 21:16:50 | <ski> | (which is why `monospace' (a la Matrix bridge), rather than `monospace', looks weird. the final "reset colors and attributes" is interpreted, but not the "set monospace attribute" one) |
| 21:17:01 | <ski> | Rembane : nope, not that i know of |
| 21:17:15 | <Rembane> | ski: I heard a story that there was a bug in an early version of Erlang which had the telephone keep ringing while the interpreter backtracked. |
| 21:17:28 | ski | relatively commonly uses formfeeds in source code, to separate it into pages, often inbetween 33 and 66 lines |
| 21:17:43 | <geekosaur> | old C-ism 🙂 |
| 21:18:02 | <ski> | "Riastradh's Lisp Style Rules" <https://mumble.net/~campbell/scheme/style.txt> does mention formfeeds |
| 21:18:24 | <Rembane> | Interesting. I haven't thought of the character until I saw it in output from pdf2text and had to parse it in some way. |
| 21:18:49 | <ski> | Rembane : heh, sounds like great fun :P |
| 21:19:10 | <ski> | (search for "Pagination") |
| 21:19:14 | <int-e> | ski: Yeah I get an inverse L for a form feed (same client, I think? I'm using irssi). |
| 21:19:14 | <monochrom> | Text-mode printers understand the formfeed character and starts a new page. |
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| 21:19:47 | <ski> | yea .. i've used that in some small documents i've sent to `lpr' |
| 21:20:28 | <Rembane> | Does lpr go beep if you send an \b ? |
| 21:20:42 | <ski> | .. however, i would like an Emacs (minor) mode that displays (only) one page, in each Emacs window displaying the buffer (and the next one, in the next window, if `follow-mode' is on) |
| 21:20:44 | <monochrom> | I think it's \a |
| 21:20:51 | <ski> | yup, int-e |
| 21:20:53 | <monochrom> | I don't think printers beep |
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| 21:21:11 | <Rembane> | monochrom: Off by one error. I think they would be better if they bept. |
| 21:21:13 | <geekosaur> | they used to |
| 21:21:14 | <monochrom> | a=alarm, b=backspace |
| 21:21:32 | <int-e> | Rembane: the bell rings when you get close to the end of the line |
| 21:22:10 | <Rembane> | int-e: I seriously need that functionality on a fast laser printer. |
| 21:22:29 | <int-e> | (that's a bit further back in technology: mechanical type writer) |
| 21:23:11 | <monochrom> | https://youtu.be/G4nX0Xrn-wo typewriter concerto >:) |
| 21:23:35 | hpc | . o O ( is your computer monitor technically an illuminated manuscript? ) |
| 21:23:54 | <ski> | "It also allows readers of the code to print it onto paper without fiddling with printer settings to permit pages of more than sixty-six lines (which is the default number for many printers)," |
| 21:24:05 | <int-e> | hpc: well most of the stuff it shows isn't writing |
| 21:24:16 | <ski> | monochrom : hah :) |
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| 21:26:04 | <int-e> | monochrom: been a while since I saw that, it's still good |
| 21:26:21 | <hpc> | i feel sorry for the woodwinds, having to still play without laughing |
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| 21:26:33 | <monochrom> | haha |
| 21:26:52 | <monochrom> | Well I guess after 5 rehearsals you no longer have the urge to laugh. |
| 21:27:10 | <int-e> | hpc: that's why you have rehearsals, get the laughs out of your system |
| 21:27:58 | <int-e> | now I want the advanced version where it actually produces a typed letter |
| 21:28:06 | × | xameer quits (~xameer@144.48.224.179) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 21:28:22 | → | xameer joins (~xameer@144.48.224.179) |
| 21:28:50 | <int-e> | (probably not practical because the space bar will have a very different sound) |
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| 21:29:14 | <monochrom> | Just use the German language >:) |
| 21:29:29 | <monochrom> | I mean: JustusetheGermanlanguage >:) |
| 21:31:23 | <int-e> | https://de.wikipedia.org/ will disappoint you |
| 21:33:11 | <Rembane> | There must be a better German language with longer words out there. :) |
| 21:33:30 | <geekosaur> | Turkish? |
| 21:33:41 | <geekosaur> | agglutination ftw |
| 21:33:53 | <jade[m]> | Salzverladeanlagen |
| 21:33:53 | <jade[m]> | Dauerhöchstgeschwindigkeit |
| 21:33:53 | <jade[m]> | ^ both from the article above |
| 21:34:01 | <jade[m]> | I love german |
| 21:35:11 | <jade[m]> | Geleitsicherungsaufgaben |
| 21:35:11 | <jade[m]> | hahah |
| 21:35:35 | × | vglfr quits (~vglfr@209.198.137.192) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 21:35:37 | <int-e> | (The longest word on the front page seems to be "Enthüllungsjournalist[en]", "investigative journalist" (not literally, "enthüllen" is "to uncover") |
| 21:36:28 | <darkling> | Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantisiliogogogoch. :) |
| 21:36:53 | <jade[m]> | I'd have expected that to be Investigativjournalisten |
| 21:37:04 | <jade[m]> | which I've heard more often than the former |
| 21:37:13 | <int-e> | jade[m]: I think MS Word killed compound nouns... because its spell checker was, probably still is, dictionary based. |
| 21:37:19 | <mauke> | stripper journalists? |
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| 21:37:40 | <monochrom> | "what have I done?!" :) |
| 21:37:42 | <jade[m]> | int-e: mh yeah might be |
| 21:38:03 | <int-e> | So you still get traditional compound nouns but few new ones. |
| 21:38:35 | <jade[m]> | I feel like you can always glue words together though |
| 21:38:41 | <hpc> | if you really want to experience writing german on a computer, you could always try spring framework :D |
| 21:38:46 | <int-e> | You mostly can. |
| 21:39:10 | <jade[m]> | hpc: good one hahahaha |
| 21:39:19 | <int-e> | But wide adaptation? Good luck with that. |
| 21:39:54 | <jade[m]> | mhm |
| 21:40:10 | <Rembane> | I love German naming of function names. Just write out exactly what the function does and be happy with filling the whole line. |
| 21:42:01 | <mauke> | none of you have worked on SAP and it shows |
| 21:42:49 | <int-e> | . o O ( Softwareapplikationsprogramm ) |
| 21:43:34 | <jade[m]> | redundanzen |
| 21:44:23 | <int-e> | Redundanzreserve |
| 21:44:31 | <Rembane> | mauke: I sense a story here. Wanna share? :) |
| 21:45:19 | <int-e> | (I can't think of a third synonym.) |
| 21:45:34 | <mauke> | no, but I offer ACKpfmUntersSt (unrelated) |
| 21:46:07 | <int-e> | Is this a german winapi thing? |
| 21:46:21 | <Rembane> | That's a seriously cursed name. I like it. |
| 21:46:36 | <mauke> | worse. military |
| 21:47:35 | × | oo_miguel quits (~Thunderbi@77.252.47.84) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 21:47:58 | <mauke> | WaffVwV-BMVg |
| 21:47:59 | <int-e> | "Kampfmitteluntersuchungsstelle" is a mouthful but at least it's pronounceable... |
| 21:47:59 | <hpc> | military winapi |
| 21:48:36 | <hpc> | mauke: i can't tell if that was another example or if you accidentally pasted your password |
| 21:48:40 | <jade[m]> | int-e: im trying to integrate "ausführbare datei" but it doesn't quite fit |
| 21:49:23 | <jade[m]> | there's also the new dsgvo |
| 21:49:27 | <mauke> | leHFlgTrspStff |
| 21:49:32 | × | bgs quits (~bgs@212-85-160-171.dynamic.telemach.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 21:50:47 | <mauke> | hpc: "Allgemeine Verwaltungsvorschrift des Bundesministers der Verteidigung zum Waffengesetz" |
| 21:51:06 | <int-e> | jade[m]: you *could* go for Binärdatei |
| 21:51:22 | <jade[m]> | mh, that could work |
| 21:51:40 | <int-e> | (with a loss of precision of course) |
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| 21:52:16 | <int-e> | anyway |
| 21:52:25 | × | vglfr quits (~vglfr@209.198.137.192) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 21:52:26 | <int-e> | Haskell anyone? |
| 21:55:36 | <mauke> | https://sap4tech.net/sap-pp-tables-main/ |
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| 21:56:58 | <jade[m]> | int-e: Haskells Evaluierungsstrategieumsetzung ist die einer faulen Evaluierung, welche die asynchrone Teilausdrucksevaluierung ermöglicht |
| 21:57:26 | <int-e> | Aua. |
| 21:57:58 | <int-e> | Also, "asynchronous", really? |
| 21:58:10 | <mauke> | Ausdrucksauswertung, bitte |
| 21:58:19 | <jade[m]> | I meant parralel, sorry |
| 21:58:28 | <jade[m]> | and that didnt even make sense |
| 21:58:41 | <jade[m]> | I was just trying to find ways to make big german words, ok? |
| 21:58:44 | <jade[m]> | haha |
| 21:59:47 | <int-e> | Diese Worterfindungsmaschenbegeisterung ist fuer mich nicht nachvollziehbar. |
| 22:02:48 | <jade[m]> | haha, mit diesem Wortneuschöpfungsbeispiel hast du deinen Standpunkt klar gemacht |
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| 23:06:52 | <eldritchcookie[m> | what are your opinions on existentially quantified types? |
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| 23:08:18 | <eldritchcookie[m> | specifically i would like to compare them to subtyping and inheritance |
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| 23:14:54 | <ncf> | what's the connection? |
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| 23:17:55 | <ghostbuster> | ok noob question.. I open ghci 9.0.2 and type y :: Integer <CR> and I get this error: <interactive>:2:1: error: Variable not in scope: y :: Integer |
| 23:20:37 | <eldritchcookie[m> | yeah you haven't defined y |
| 23:21:04 | <eldritchcookie[m> | you need to do y = (42::Integer) |
| 23:21:21 | <ncf> | or y :: Integer; y = 42 |
| 23:21:53 | <ghostbuster> | thanks |
| 23:22:13 | <eldritchcookie[m> | ncf: consider the pair of a existentially quantified type and a typeclass this can simulate inheritance |
| 23:23:30 | <eldritchcookie[m> | class UIElement t where |
| 23:23:30 | <eldritchcookie[m> | onClick:: UIElement -> IO () |
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| 23:24:10 | <eldritchcookie[m> | ok i am having a stroke it was supporsed to be t -> IO () |
| 23:25:31 | <eldritchcookie[m> | a little bit of c# and i can't even kind check my example code |
| 23:26:04 | <hpc> | ghostbuster: another thing you can do is ":{" and ":}" to start and end multiline statements |
| 23:26:23 | <hpc> | and then you can write type and definition same as you might in a file |
| 23:26:48 | <hpc> | eventually you'll probably just want to make a file though, and "ghci foo.hs" |
| 23:26:57 | <hpc> | and then you can edit the file and :r to reload it |
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| 23:31:08 | <ski> | eldritchcookie[m : are you talking about interface inheritance, or implementation inheritance ? |
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| 23:32:13 | <eldritchcookie[m> | don't know the kind in c# when you do public class i : h {} |
| 23:32:29 | <eldritchcookie[m> | so it probably is interface inheritance? |
| 23:32:31 | <ski> | with the base class being fully abstract ? |
| 23:33:11 | <hpc> | eldritchcookie[m: you might like data UIElement = UIElement {onClick :: IO (), ...} better |
| 23:33:13 | <ski> | i guess your inheritance would correspond to making a subclass of `UIElement', then ? |
| 23:33:20 | <ski> | but yea, what hpc said |
| 23:33:41 | <hpc> | that doesn't get you inheritance, but usually you should be using composition anyway |
| 23:34:19 | <ski> | well, there's no subtyping / interface inheritance (in the usual sense that's construed), in Haskell |
| 23:34:51 | <hpc> | eldritchcookie[m: consider if you have some layout container for your UI, maybe we'll call it VerticalLayout |
| 23:35:09 | <ski> | if you want implementation inheritance, then .. you can do "prototyping". you *can* also do open recursion, but that's a little bit trickier, requireds `fix' basically |
| 23:35:13 | <hpc> | it contains a bunch of UIElements and sizes/positions them so they're top to bottom and fill the container |
| 23:35:31 | <hpc> | buuuuuut, UIElement t => [t] requires every element to be the same type |
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| 23:35:42 | <hpc> | so you can't have a textarea with a button below it |
| 23:35:55 | <ski> | but as hpc is indicating, often plain lexical scoping ("closures") is a good substitute for (simplistic) uses of existentials |
| 23:36:15 | <ski> | @where on-understanding-revisited |
| 23:36:15 | <lambdabot> | "On Understanding Data Abstraction, Revisited" by William R. Cook in 2009-10 at <http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~wcook/Drafts/2009/essay.pdf> |
| 23:36:15 | <hpc> | you can work around that too, but not without being dragged ever deeper down the type-level rabbit hole |
| 23:36:19 | <ski> | talks a bit about this |
| 23:36:54 | <hpc> | for a UI, i might just use mutability honestly |
| 23:37:09 | <hpc> | have all the UIElement methods close over MVars or whatever |
| 23:37:56 | <eldritchcookie[m> | yeah but someUIElement = MkSomeUIElement UIElement t => t can store any UIElement, your recommendations may be a better design i am saying that you can not that you should |
| 23:38:14 | <eldritchcookie[m> | s/someUIElement/SomeUIElement/ |
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| 23:47:44 | <ski> | itym `data UIElement = forall t. UIElement t => MkSomeUIElement t' |
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| 23:48:20 | <ski> | but `data UIElement = MkSomeUIElement { onClick :: IO (),.. }' might work just as well |
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All times are in UTC on 2023-05-21.