Logs on 2023-05-29 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 00:28:19 | <Guest13> | hi, I was here before asking about the reader monad |
| 00:28:51 | <Guest13> | well, actually about (insert term here) depending on which language it is |
| 00:28:52 | <Guest13> | https://stackoverflow.com/questions/14178889/what-is-the-purpose-of-the-reader-monad |
| 00:29:13 | <Guest13> | this link explains various programming languages approach this idea in different ways |
| 00:29:50 | <Guest13> | eg. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dependency_injection |
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| 00:30:20 | <Guest13> | "You use the reader monad if you want to - on occasion - read some values from an (unmodifiable) environment, but don't want to explicitly pass that environment around" |
| 00:30:29 | <Guest13> | which is exactly what i was after! |
| 00:30:48 | <Guest13> | i was going to try to put together an example |
| 00:31:11 | <Guest13> | as i have never used monad transformers, I was wondering if I could get some walkthrough |
| 00:36:39 | <monochrom> | Since Reader is defined by "newtype Reader e a = Reader (e -> a)", |
| 00:36:57 | <monochrom> | You can treat it as e->a. Just vanilla function space. |
| 00:37:24 | <monochrom> | So the purpose seems to be glorifying it more than it really is. |
| 00:38:06 | <Guest13> | hmm |
| 00:38:21 | <Guest13> | and the monad instance doesnt add anything over that? |
| 00:38:32 | <Guest13> | i started writing a paste; |
| 00:38:33 | <Guest13> | https://paste.tomsmeding.com/RaCxUUv6 |
| 00:38:37 | <jackdk> | Guest13: http://jackkelly.name/wiki/haskell/learning.html#monad-transformers has some links I like, some may help you. Try `mtl.md`? |
| 00:38:44 | <Guest13> | thanks |
| 00:38:46 | <monochrom> | While I'm at it, let's also deconstruct dependency injection. |
| 00:38:52 | <Guest13> | ok |
| 00:39:07 | <monochrom> | Suppose I start with this code "f = sin 5 + sin 6". |
| 00:39:41 | <monochrom> | Someone may say maybe for some reason we should let the user provide the sin function so I don't hardcode sin there. |
| 00:40:05 | <Guest13> | f g = g 5 + g 6 |
| 00:40:42 | <monochrom> | So we take a sin parameter from the user and rewrite as "f g = g 5 + g 6". Now the user can choose sin or cos or a mock sin or whatever for mock testing or generality. |
| 00:41:28 | <Guest13> | sure |
| 00:41:50 | <monochrom> | So the purpose of dependency injection seems to be having an excuse to write gigabytes of blogs and demanding millions of consultancy money for much ado about nothing. |
| 00:42:19 | <Guest13> | very helpful thankyou |
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| 00:44:10 | <Guest13> | i think maybe MTL isnt something i should learn |
| 00:44:22 | <Guest13> | i have no desire to use the algebraic compositionality |
| 00:44:39 | <Guest13> | ill just focus on understanding the reader monad for now |
| 00:45:03 | <Guest13> | and this idea of working within an environment in which pseudo-global variables can be set |
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| 00:46:35 | <Guest13> | i can remember eg, reader + writer = state. and that for other groups of monads, that there can be issues to do with commutativity. but the language used in the links is opaque, and beyond my capability to comprehend. |
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| 03:41:00 | <JensPetersen[m]> | Is there a better name for this haskeline function than mapInput? https://github.com/juhp/simple-prompt/blob/8d3f11960220b15e5b1569c226e1edfe418076f5/src/SimplePrompt/Internal.hs#L72 |
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| 03:43:28 | <JensPetersen[m]> | eg I renamed guardInput to untilInput |
| 03:45:52 | <jackdk> | JensPetersen[m]: package `witherable` calls that function `mapMaybe`, generalising `Data.Maybe.mapMaybe`: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/witherable-0.4/docs/Data-Witherable.html#v:mapMaybe . `mapMaybeInput`, then? |
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| 04:09:58 | <JensPetersen[m]> | jackdk: right could work (I also tried maybeInput), but it doesn't capture the looping aspect |
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| 04:20:15 | <jackdk> | JensPetersen[m]: Oh, I did not notice that at all, and leapt to a conclusion based on the tysig. `untilJustInput`? |
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| 05:24:43 | <Axman6> | How do I get cabal to list the versions of packages it's using in the current project? |
| 05:25:12 | <sclv> | look at the project.json |
| 05:25:43 | <sclv> | er plan.json https://hackage.haskell.org/package/cabal-plan |
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| 05:27:04 | <Axman6> | I tried cabal freeze and it's given me what I'm after |
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| 05:47:28 | <JensPetersen[m]> | Axman6: that would be a nice feature - `stack list` can do that at least for non core-libs |
| 05:49:15 | <JensPetersen[m]> | jackdk: thanks |
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| 05:51:20 | <Axman6> | yeah cabal list was the first thing I tried, and it did give me a lot of output, but way more than I wanted to sift through |
| 05:57:04 | <jackdk> | If I'm using the nixpkgs haskell stuff, then the versions it provides are in `ghc-pkg list` |
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| 10:59:12 | <modotte> | hello! How do I print help info with colored command names using optparse-applicative? I've raised this issue on optparse-applicative repo here - https://github.com/pcapriotti/optparse-applicative/issues/478, but maintainers probably busy atm. |
| 11:00:33 | <modotte> | I anyone know how to do this, I would really appreciate if you could share the trick with solving this. ty! |
| 11:00:54 | <modotte> | if anyone* |
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| 11:08:30 | <ncf> | glguy: does your parabox clone handle multi-infinities? |
| 11:09:28 | <ncf> | oh i guess it does, just saw the levels |
| 11:09:59 | <ncf> | i've been thinking about like, data Box a = Var a | Wall | Grid Int (Map Coord (Box a)) | Fix (Box (Maybe a)) |
| 11:10:32 | <ncf> | then successive infinities are just nested Fixes |
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| 13:59:42 | <Henson> | with optparse-applicative, I've got a "command" subparser that can occur one or more times on the command line. This subparser takes an argument with "some" meaning it can be repeated one or more times. The problem I'm encountering is that since the command subparser can't have a short or long option, denoting the command with "--" or "-", the subparser is unable to tell when the "some" option.. |
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| 14:01:05 | <Henson> | has ended and a new command has begun. For example "./command commandA arg1 arg2 arg3 commandA arg4 arg5". It's unable to tell that the second commandA is another commandA, and isn't just an additional "some" argument to the first commandA. |
| 14:01:56 | <Henson> | if commandA could be called "--commandA" that would help the parser figure out when a new command has begun, but command subparsers don't seem to be allowed to do that. |
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| 14:13:58 | <kuribas> | I don't think that's the intend use of a command |
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| 14:14:16 | <geekosaur> | yes, this sounds like an option with a list of parameters |
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| 14:18:51 | <Henson> | I've looked for an option with a list of parameters before, and what I've found is that each argument is supposed to have only one prameter, and that it's a violation of some command-line option standard to have more than one, so optparse-applicative doesn't do it. Perhaps I'm wrong about that. |
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| 14:33:33 | <kuribas> | Maybe parse a string, and group the options? |
| 14:33:57 | <kuribas> | --files "foo.png bar.jpeg". |
| 14:34:31 | <kuribas> | or repeat: --file foo.png --file bar.jpeg |
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| 14:36:20 | <Henson> | kuribas: parsing the options as a string would likely work, thank you for the suggestion. I wish there were a more natural option, though. |
| 14:37:44 | <geekosaur> | tbh I don't get "violates some standard". subcommands violate POSIX |
| 14:38:01 | <geekosaur> | not that POSIX is a tech standard |
| 14:39:21 | <Henson> | geekosaur: https://github.com/pcapriotti/optparse-applicative/issues/284 |
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| 14:40:43 | <Henson> | I think kuribas's suggestion will work. You need some way of denoting the end of a list of one or more items. I tried adding a "--done" option which was discarded using the <* combinator but that didn't work. A quote surrounding one or more items is a natural way of denoting the list, so that might be the best way |
| 14:41:29 | <Henson> | I know Python's argparse library can do it the way I want, but I think this approach violates the posix recommendations, and optparse-applicative tries to stick within the recommendations and so isn't able to do it. |
| 14:42:50 | <mauke> | if you use an --option to signal the end of the list, how do you pass an argument that starts with two dashes? |
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| 14:45:31 | <Henson> | mauke: I guess you either can't or you'd wrap it in quotes |
| 14:46:10 | <mauke> | what, like --things "\"--arg\"" --done? |
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| 14:47:15 | <probie> | but then how does one specify an arg which starts with a quote followed by two dashes? |
| 14:47:54 | <ncf> | "\"\\\"--arg\\\"\"", of course |
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| 15:02:45 | <glguy> | ncf: it's been a while since I thought about parabox; gotta shift my mind back into that mode. I think the biggest challenge with the representation you showed would just be finding the Var corresponding to a Fix or vice versa when computing movements. It seems like you might end up wanting to compute another representation from this one. The other challenge would be editing the level as you move things around. Maybe you could write some kind of |
| 15:02:45 | <glguy> | zipper structure for this. Minor point: grids don't have to be square, so you might want an extra Int on Grid if that Int is for size |
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| 15:04:42 | <ncf> | yeah, also this doesn't enforce that fixed points are linear, so you could have multiple occurrences of a box inside itself, without the information of which one is the original |
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| 15:05:32 | <ncf> | so you might reverse it and do Fix Location (Box a), co-de-Bruijn style, but then you make other invalid things representable |
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| 15:07:02 | <ncf> | i'm probably trying to be too clever |
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| 15:09:16 | <ncf> | well, maybe this would work better in agda |
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| 15:34:00 | <gensyst> | Why is there no reverse withMVar that works on empty mvars? |
| 15:34:04 | <gensyst> | withEmptyMVar |
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| 15:34:12 | <gensyst> | the idea being, have locks |
| 15:35:17 | <gensyst> | of course i could have a full () mvar mean unlocked, and use withMVar while it's locked. Is that the normal way? (It just feels weird to have full meaning "unlocked") |
| 15:35:32 | <gensyst> | full kinda feels like "locked", if you know what i mean |
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| 15:59:57 | <lyxia> | that's the normal way |
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| 16:00:35 | <probie> | I don't think `withEmptyMVar` sounds particularly useful. It sounds like it only implements a lock, since if other people are taking stuff out of the mvar, you wouldn't be able to safely re-empty it on an exception |
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| 17:47:44 | <hammond> | what webserver is being used on haskell these days ? |
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| 17:51:22 | <monochrom> | I heard of warp. There may be others. |
| 17:51:38 | <monochrom> | I don't follow web programming so my memory is vague. |
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| 17:54:59 | <geekosaur> | servant (type-level-heavy), scotty, spock, yesod |
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| 17:57:50 | <hammond> | wrap seems simple, yesod seems heavy and overbloated. idk aout servant. |
| 17:58:11 | <Lycurgus> | servant is a web server |
| 17:58:18 | <Lycurgus> | *isn't |
| 17:58:29 | <hammond> | oh |
| 17:59:35 | <Lycurgus> | and yeah you could guess that by the pretentious name |
| 17:59:36 | <stefan-_> | scotty uses warp under the hood |
| 17:59:48 | <Lycurgus> | (heavy and bloated) |
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| 18:09:35 | <monochrom> | yesod is a complete suite of web programming. Yeah therefore heavy. Also jealous. >:) |
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| 18:56:37 | <sm> | also IHP |
| 18:56:55 | <sm> | if you really want heavy |
| 18:57:10 | <sm> | morning all |
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| 20:36:59 | <cheater> | hi |
| 20:37:11 | <juri_> | hello. |
| 20:37:37 | <cheater> | is there a standard pair-like where map f {a, b} = {map f a, map f b} ? |
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| 20:38:56 | <mauke> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ghc-9.6.1/docs/GHC-Data-Pair.html#t:Pair wanna depend on ghc internals? |
| 20:39:59 | <monochrom> | Write your own "data P a = P a a deriving Functor" then the auto-generated fmap does that. |
| 20:40:16 | <monochrom> | needs the DeriveFunctor extension |
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| 20:43:32 | <ncf> | do the curly braces imply that you want *unordered* pairs? |
| 20:44:37 | <monochrom> | Do we even have an unordered pair type in base? |
| 20:45:08 | <mauke> | class Unordered a where { uncompare :: a -> a -> Void } |
| 20:46:54 | <cheater> | it's ordered |
| 20:47:22 | <cheater> | i just wish i knew how to search for something like this on hoogle |
| 20:47:26 | <cheater> | but there doesn't seem to be a way |
| 20:47:40 | <mauke> | I hoogled "Pair" |
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| 20:48:20 | <cheater> | i was thinking more of like, "find me a type that has the following laws" |
| 20:49:02 | <cheater> | just like you can search for types by shape etc |
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| 23:00:17 | <EvanR> | cheater, so like dependently typed hoogle |
| 23:00:29 | <cheater> | i don't know |
| 23:01:21 | <EvanR> | I wonder if chat-gpt could be used for this unironically |
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| 23:26:49 | <cheater> | ewwww |
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All times are in UTC on 2023-05-29.