Logs on 2023-06-04 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 01:42:35 | <ghostbuster> | what is the name for the syntax where you specify a list as head, plus the rest, ie. myfunc (x:xs) = ... |
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| 01:44:28 | <yushyin> | pattern matching |
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| 06:01:56 | <freeside> | so, my adventures continue; we previously explored logging with Writer and throwing errors with Either. But Writer is not respected by the gurus. |
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| 06:04:00 | <freeside> | Which brings us to packages that try to go further: Data.Validation and Control.Monad.Validate |
| 06:05:20 | <freeside> | Data.Validation accumulates errors; it is Applicative but not Monad. |
| 06:06:04 | <freeside> | Control.Monad.Validate offers alternatives to throwError and tell; and it is a monad transformer. |
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| 06:07:20 | <freeside> | The only question in my mind now is: why isn't monad-validate in stackage? What does it take to get something blessed into LTS? |
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| 06:18:29 | <Inst> | probie: size of ecosystem, compiler development, etc |
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| 06:23:10 | <Inst> | example might be ML; i.e, hasktorch is incomplete, but plodding its way through, tensorflow bindings are stackage only, but only with antique GHCs |
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| 06:32:00 | <arrowhead> | I am trying to finish my VSCODE + GHCUP integration. I am having this error: https://imgur.com/a/21I9gz0 |
| 06:32:18 | <arrowhead> | That Main.hs is from a diligently generated cabal project |
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| 06:50:49 | <probie> | arrowhead: what is in the cabal file? |
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| 07:15:59 | <arrowhead> | It is a fresh cabal init |
| 07:16:09 | <arrowhead> | probie: ^ |
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| 07:22:27 | <mauke> | that doesn't really answer the question |
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| 07:23:25 | <freeside> | vs code usually does the right thing if you place all your faith in the extensions |
| 07:23:36 | <freeside> | trying to be helpful usually leads to sadness |
| 07:24:21 | <arrowhead> | probie: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/uuPfxdCb |
| 07:24:27 | <arrowhead> | mauke: apologies |
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| 07:25:01 | <mauke> | ok, base is in there |
| 07:26:33 | <arrowhead> | and cabal build builds fine |
| 07:26:45 | <arrowhead> | so I'm inclined to believe the errors VS Code are reporting are bogus somehow |
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| 07:40:52 | <arrowhead> | uninstalling and reinstalling the VS Code plugin "Haskell for Visual Studio Code" does not solve the problem |
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| 08:00:30 | <geekosaur> | I'd wonder about ~/.cache/hie-bios |
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| 08:10:17 | <freeside> | noob question: If I want to add (Just 1) to (Just 2), I liftA2 (+). What do I do if I want to add (Just (Just 1)) to (Just (Just 2)) ? |
| 08:11:06 | <c_wraith> | :t liftA2 (liftA2 (+)) |
| 08:11:07 | <lambdabot> | (Applicative f1, Applicative f2, Num c) => f1 (f2 c) -> f1 (f2 c) -> f1 (f2 c) |
| 08:11:50 | <freeside> | i should've seen that |
| 08:11:57 | <c_wraith> | liftA2 takes and returns a binary operation |
| 08:12:07 | <c_wraith> | you can just keep nesting as needed |
| 08:12:17 | <freeside> | what if i want to use the (+) <$> (Just 1) <*> (Just 2) form? |
| 08:12:47 | <c_wraith> | that gets more awkward and I'd try to avoid it. |
| 08:12:59 | <freeside> | is there some punctuation that makes it unnecessary to say (liftA2 (+)) <$> ... ? |
| 08:13:16 | <c_wraith> | that already is unnecessary |
| 08:13:34 | <freeside> | well, for (liftA2 (+)) <$> (Just (Just 1)) <*> (Just (Just 2)) |
| 08:13:38 | <c_wraith> | well, some of those parens are unnecessary |
| 08:13:52 | <c_wraith> | operators are always lower-precedence |
| 08:14:01 | <freeside> | i expect there is some library that does <$$> <**> |
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| 08:14:19 | <geekosaur> | have you asked hoogle? |
| 08:14:30 | <c_wraith> | I'm not sure there is much. |
| 08:14:44 | <c_wraith> | Because if you really want to do it cleanly, there's Data.Functor.Compose |
| 08:14:50 | <freeside> | the likeliest thing is "LambdaHack: A game engine library for tactical squad ASCII roguelike dungeon crawlers" lol |
| 08:15:20 | <freeside> | protolude offers <<$>> |
| 08:15:26 | <probie> | > getCompose $ (+) <$> Compose (Just (Just 1)) <*> Compose (Just (Just 2)) |
| 08:15:28 | <lambdabot> | Just (Just 3) |
| 08:16:03 | <geekosaur> | I'd just use the liftA2 version, that's getting pretty unreadable |
| 08:16:56 | <freeside> | ah well, just when i thought i could be clever with RWS (Either a b) |
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| 08:18:37 | <probie> | both `Compose` and `Identity` bother me, because they're such long names for things that I generally want to ignore |
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| 08:23:28 | <freeside> | anyhoo, thanks for the ideas, i have incorporated them into my teach-myself-RWS(T) gist, https://gist.github.com/mengwong/73af81ad600a533f12ef42fc655fed0f if anyone has comments i would be grateful |
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| 08:45:42 | <ncf> | freeside: the second form should be equivalent to ExceptT String RWS a, if you want to stick to monad transformers |
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| 08:54:36 | <ncf> | (and then you can rewrite your functions to work equally well with both versions, using mtl-style classes) |
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| 09:22:49 | <freeside> | thank you ncf. I was going to look at Effects libraries next |
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| 10:08:58 | <freeside> | actually, i am now learning monad-validate, which feels like the next step forward along that progression |
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| 10:13:34 | <Axman6> | probie: you just need type (f . g) x = f (g x) of course! |
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| 10:28:46 | <ncf> | this is neat https://hackage.haskell.org/package/monad-validate-1.2.0.1/docs/Control-Monad-Validate-Internal.html#t:MonoMaybe |
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| 10:35:36 | <ncf> | lexi-lambda: has this technique (using polymorphism to maintain invariants, like in MonoMaybe) been written about somewhere? is it used anywhere else? (it gives me ST vibes, but this is different) |
| 10:36:28 | <freeside> | I just got to the bit where runState / runValidate return (Either e a, s) vs Either e (a, s) and I'm like, hey, I just did that |
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| 10:52:08 | <freeside> | hm, i wonder if there's a version of this Control.Monad.Validate where I can tell to a writer without failing; i suppose that isn't really possible because the interface ultimately presents as Either. |
| 10:53:54 | <ncf> | freeside: you might wanna check out monad-chronicle |
| 10:56:19 | <freeside> | yeah, I was just wondering if I could ValidateT a monad-logger or something along those lines |
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| 11:44:14 | <MangoIV[m]> | There’s a cute ghc proposal by iceland jack which perhaps will make things like that easier |
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| 11:51:54 | <MangoIV[m]> | I can’t find it. If anybody can, I’d also be happy to get the link… 😅 |
| 11:52:28 | <[Leary]> | ncf: I haven't seen anything written about this, but it reminds me of embeddings of subtyping relations through parametricity, e.g. <https://gist.github.com/LSLeary/0d3bf054f73c08910a6da2cfb49a4c28>. |
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| 13:06:06 | <ncf> | [Leary]: diabolical |
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| 16:26:14 | <jade[m]> | what would be the easiest way to convert constructors to a specific string? |
| 16:26:14 | <jade[m]> | Essentially `deriving (Show)` but with my own implementation. |
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| 16:27:31 | <c_wraith> | I assume you mean following some rules that you can describe programmatically? TH seems like the only real approach |
| 16:27:50 | <c_wraith> | Unless a class is involved, then you can use SYB or Generics or the like |
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| 16:28:16 | <c_wraith> | (I suppose you can use them anyway, but it's more awkward) |
| 16:28:33 | <jade[m]> | mhm yeah I thought about TH |
| 16:28:54 | <jade[m]> | but maybe this is an entirely wrong approach to begin with, maybe I should give some context |
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| 16:33:54 | <jade[m]> | I'm using `blaze-html` and `clay` to write a `style.css` and `index.html`. |
| 16:33:54 | <jade[m]> | Both use instances of `IsString` (the specifics shouldn't be too important) to add attributes and selectors in html and css respectively. |
| 16:33:54 | <jade[m]> | One approach that I wanted to avoid is the way you'd write each manually, which is that both just write out the strings manually. A slightly better version would define variables of type `IsString s => s` that both the css and html use for atleast *some* safety. |
| 16:33:54 | <jade[m]> | I wanted to couple both, so I could use a `withStyle css html` combinator. For the names of classes and such I wanted to use a few ADT that I convert to `abc-def-ghi` syntax for the document, which my question was about |
| 16:34:21 | <jade[m]> | thinking about it a bit I think the second approach might be best, and the withStyle combinator could still be implemented |
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| 17:08:04 | <Guest14> | Hello everyone |
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| 17:08:31 | <Guest14> | I'm having a problem while trying to install the latest version of ghc |
| 17:08:45 | <Guest14> | Can you guys help me figure out what is it? |
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| 17:10:23 | <geekosaur> | do you have a paste showing the problem? |
| 17:10:25 | <geekosaur> | @where paste |
| 17:10:25 | <lambdabot> | Help us help you: please paste full code, input and/or output at e.g. https://paste.tomsmeding.com |
| 17:10:49 | <Guest14> | Error: [GHCup-00841] |
| 17:11:38 | <tomsmeding> | https://errors.haskell.org/messages/GHCup-00841/ |
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| 17:11:50 | <tomsmeding> | Guest14: please post the full error log |
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| 17:12:04 | <tomsmeding> | also the log file in the directory printed at the end |
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| 17:15:12 | <geekosaur> | (thank you, I was trying to find where that was) |
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| 17:16:31 | <yushyin> | TIL about the haskell error index, nice. |
| 17:16:47 | <geekosaur> | I knew about it but misremembered where it was |
| 17:17:21 | tomsmeding | remembered it was errors something haskell something, and guessed right |
| 17:17:39 | <tomsmeding> | though this particular code is not terribly helpful :p |
| 17:18:53 | <yushyin> | a little more context would be helpful, yes. |
| 17:19:54 | <tomsmeding> | ( which process ended prematurely at what stage of installation and with what output :p) |
| 17:20:43 | <Guest14> | I think I found the error, I was missing g++. I'm trying to install the latest version again (im using the gcup tui) |
| 17:20:58 | <tomsmeding> | are you on linux? |
| 17:21:06 | <Guest14> | Yes |
| 17:21:08 | <Guest14> | Linux Mint |
| 17:21:11 | <tomsmeding> | https://www.haskell.org/ghcup/install/#system-requirements |
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| 17:25:42 | <sm> | @where+ errors https://errors.haskell.org the Haskell Error Index |
| 17:25:42 | <lambdabot> | It is forever etched in my memory. |
| 17:27:22 | <Guest14> | Thank you |
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| 17:32:22 | <sm> | now it can also be found via https://haskell-links.org/?q=errors or jumped to via https://haskell-links.org/errors |
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| 17:49:20 | <chromoblob> | why are the error numbers so random yet of only 5 digits? |
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| 17:59:50 | <int-e> | chromoblob: https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/blob/master/compiler/GHC/Types/Error/Codes.hs#L65-74 suggests that they *are* random (though that's not actually stated as a requirement). |
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| 21:09:37 | <jade[m]> | this blog from Haskell News seems to have a lot of issues https://anurudhp.github.io/blogs/2021/06/23/io-monad-in-cpp.html |
| 21:10:43 | <jade[m]> | > -- haskell... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/ab5eaeaa3b479c0cb579b5f4468442c879486f23>) |
| 21:10:44 | <lambdabot> | <no location info>: error: |
| 21:10:45 | <lambdabot> | not an expression: ‘-- haskell... (full message at <https://libera.ems.h... |
| 21:11:32 | <jade[m]> | > instance Monad IO where... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/9af38ee961291e1745028a68ac9bae96fedea288>) |
| 21:11:33 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:1: error: parse error on input ‘instance’ |
| 21:11:48 | <ncf> | :k IO |
| 21:11:49 | <lambdabot> | * -> * |
| 21:11:58 | <ncf> | :t unsafePerformIO |
| 21:11:59 | <lambdabot> | error: Variable not in scope: unsafePerformIO |
| 21:12:14 | <ncf> | anyway, in C++ it definitely is escapable ;) |
| 21:12:49 | <EvanR> | nevermind monads in C++, can you even have Functor |
| 21:12:59 | <geekosaur> | also if you dig in the internals you will find that >>= is bindIO and there is a runIO |
| 21:13:48 | <geekosaur> | (that said, runIO is highly magical and probably doesn't do what you would think) |
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| 21:14:37 | <jade[m]> | jade[m]: > <@jade.256:the-apothecary.club> > instance Monad IO where... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/3a1e4e980784255a49af89598545f6c28ac48ea2>) |
| 21:15:25 | <ncf> | i assume it refers to the seq they defined in the C++ pane... |
| 21:15:41 | <jade[m]> | oh that would make a little more sense yeah |
| 21:15:49 | <jade[m]> | the problem is that the type matches lol |
| 21:15:53 | <geekosaur> | right, I was about to ask if they had a local definition like they presumably have for bind |
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| 21:16:56 | <jade[m]> | jade[m]: that made me think they searched hoogle for `IO a -> IO b -> IO b` and it showed `seq` |
| 21:17:18 | <jade[m]> | but it would make more sense that it's just an abbreviation of "sequential application" |
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| 21:19:13 | <ncf> | i read a blog post today that also used Seq for (>>): https://acatalepsie.fr/posts/overloading-lambda |
| 21:20:00 | <jade[m]> | <jade[m]> "> -- haskell..." <- > <@jade.256:the-apothecary.club> > -- haskell... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/633d030db251effcd32690a2307d22f283147829>) |
| 21:21:16 | <geekosaur> | (a) your multiple levels of quoting yourself are somewhat obnoxious IRC-side (b) is there some reason there should be one, as opposed to showing a comparison to "standard" IO? |
| 21:22:59 | <EvanR> | it doesn't help that lambdabot is responding to the matrix quotes or whatever is going on there |
| 21:23:03 | <ncf> | ban matrix users, for their own sake |
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| 21:24:42 | <ncf> | anyway, you could argue that in C++ IO is basically Identity (if you're willing to assign meaning to this...), which is why `run` is part of the definition |
| 21:24:56 | <ncf> | data IO a = IO { run :: a } -- if you will |
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| 21:50:12 | <monochrom> | newtype Identity a = Identity (IO a) |
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| 21:54:17 | <hpc> | fun fact: in IO the 'I' stands for Identity |
| 21:54:30 | <hpc> | and the 'O' stands for https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.18.0.0/docs/GHC-Base.html#v:O |
| 21:54:33 | <hpc> | it's like RWS :P |
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| 21:55:25 | <monochrom> | Heh opague identity |
| 21:55:39 | <EvanR> | Idontity |
| 21:56:25 | <hpc> | Idon'tity, gotta spell it right |
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