Home liberachat/#haskell: Logs Calendar

Logs on 2023-06-06 (liberachat/#haskell)

00:04:05 × cheater quits (~Username@user/cheater) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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04:00:51 <Clinton[m]> When I do the following:... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/d0727032e48f0dc9c105d3ca3f03de625deee9d6>)
04:01:26 <Clinton[m]> * When I do the following:... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/6c08f15f23b34f431d785a044a3021412e1c5eda>)
04:06:19 <c_wraith> That mostly comes down to m being fully unconstrained. I realize it's a simplified example, but why do you have that?
04:07:05 <c_wraith> like, the only value of type `forall m. m a' is bottom
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04:11:06 <Clinton[m]> c_wraith: I was just simplifying the example. This has the same problem:... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/743a6c888ed6b108b797bf2f5b638f922265d73e>)
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04:12:31 <Clinton[m]> * c_wraith: I was just simplifying the example. This has the same problem:... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/e089360c81e5d13d15554b5712cb82044c28750a>)
04:12:40 <Clinton[m]> * c_wraith: I was just simplifying the example. This has the same problem, with no bottoms:... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/930dc762294d5a2f9a5590d6fe082360991312fd>)
04:13:30 <EvanR> Clinton your matrix bridge has a serious echo effect now
04:14:18 <Clinton[m]> EvanR: Sorry? My matrix bridge?
04:14:56 <Clinton[m]> * matrix bridge? I didn't know I had one.
04:15:15 <EvanR> https://i.imgur.com/gxtk9Jc.png
04:15:37 <glguy> when you edit your message it retransmits
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04:26:44 <c_wraith> Clinton[m]: what you really want is some way of putting a Representational role on m, but I don't know how to do that for something that's used only inside another definition
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04:27:59 <c_wraith> or rather, on m's argument.
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04:30:25 <sm> Clinton: in other words, editing and quoting previous messages is noisy for the native IRC users here, so best to do those sparingly
04:31:21 <jackdk> May be possible to adapt the QuantifiedConstraints trick in https://ryanglscott.github.io/2018/03/04/how-quantifiedconstraints-can-let-us-put-join-back-in-monad/ but I can't figure out how to do it with `m` not being the typeclass parameter
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04:51:58 <Clinton[m]> Here's the answer, I actually used this trick in a library I wrote 5 years ago when I was trying to learn Haskell (properly): https://hackage.haskell.org/package/map-classes... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/58a21be0f37d792ef99a477a366ea2936d4981c6>)
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04:58:54 <c_wraith> ah, that's nice. I was looking for something in that direction, but Coyoneda is a nice touch.
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07:09:17 <gensyst> Can forkOn be used as an alternative to forkOS? I.e., does a **capability** also stick to one OS thread for foreign calls?
07:10:59 <dminuoso> gensyst: No, a capability can have multiple OS threads.
07:12:37 <gensyst> dminuoso, do you know where i could find this in documentation?
07:12:51 <dminuoso> https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/commentary/rts/scheduler#capabilities
07:13:05 <dminuoso> A capability is more like a virtual CPU.
07:13:37 <dminuoso> Note in this section `A list of worker threads [is one of the important components of a Capability]`
07:14:18 <gensyst> nice
07:14:30 <dminuoso> Or maybe think of it as an STG cpu
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07:15:15 <dminuoso> It's Tasks that have a 1-to-1 corresponce to OS threads.
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07:16:41 <dminuoso> I dont quite understand when forkOn is really useful, its haddock documentation is somewhat lacking.
07:16:55 <gensyst> I didn't even know about this wiki.
07:17:18 <dminuoso> Yeah GHC has a very extensive wiki.
07:19:59 <gensyst> dminuoso, is it possible to keep a forkOS bound thread alive for future use? so: A. ask the system to "keep thread alive". B. execute normal things on the bound thread. C. install a handler (GC finalizer) that gets (potentially sometime later) called on the *same* bound thread. D. after normal termination of my code, i uninstall the handler.
07:20:22 <gensyst> s/uninstall the handler/uninstall the handler and ask system to "no longer keep thread alive"
07:20:56 <dminuoso> gensyst: Of course. Use an MVar or TVar to communicate runnable things with that thread.
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07:21:25 <dminuoso> Keeping it alive amounts to just reading off that MVar/TVar in an infinite loop.
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07:22:26 <dminuoso> And a "handler" would amount to just some `finally` or an exit branch in `readTVarIO \case Exit -> ...`
07:23:31 <gensyst> dminuoso, i tried doing a channel for this but this has too much overhead (we're talking crazy tens of microseconds per call). Therefore I want to have my normal ordinary code (non-finalizer) just be on the same fixed bound thread (no MVars involved). It would be OK though if the finalizer only had to involve MVars.
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07:24:56 <gensyst> so, it turned out that switching between threads in a tight loop is a no-go. so that sort of thing won't work for me for the *normal code*.
07:25:04 <dminuoso> gensyst: So in principle attaching a finalizer could be done with a simple IO wrapper.
07:25:15 <dminuoso> There
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07:27:51 <dminuoso> Say some equivalent of a `newtype IOKeep t a = IOKeep { runIOKeep :: ReaderT t (IO a) } deriving MonadIO`
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07:29:32 <dminuoso> Alternatively you could perhaps use qualified do-notation/rebindable syntax/manual (>>=)/(>>)/fmap/(<*>) replacement that uses touch# everywhere.
07:29:46 <dminuoso> But I would go with that IOKeep first maybe
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07:30:22 <dminuoso> As for a something better than a TChan.. I dont know.
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07:31:24 <dminuoso> Ah you could even use https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.18.0.0/docs/System-Mem-Weak.html#v:addFinalizer instead of touch#
07:31:28 <dminuoso> Is probably more comfortable
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07:34:03 <gensyst> dminuoso, the finalizer i mentioned was indeed done with mkWeakIORef, but the problem is there was no guarantee it would execute on the same original bound thread
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07:34:18 <dminuoso> Mmm
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07:34:35 <gensyst> (this was btw my motivation to ask about forkOn - whether i could somehow execute the thing on the original thread (after keeping the original thread alive somehow))
07:34:35 <dminuoso> Well, you can forkOS a finalizer thread that waits on an MVar.
07:34:37 <dminuoso> Ohh
07:34:40 <dminuoso> Hold on, that's what you had.
07:34:46 <dminuoso> I recall the previous discussion
07:35:13 <dminuoso> No actually, you should be able to do *that*
07:35:28 <dminuoso> forkOS a thread that waits on an MVar, and in the finalizer you just put a token into the MVar.
07:36:03 <gensyst> dminuoso, but i still have to execute the normal code on that thread first..
07:36:14 <dminuoso> gensyst: You can have multiple bound threads.
07:36:28 <gensyst> it needs to be the same (due to c ffi)
07:36:44 <gensyst> (thread local state stuff)
07:37:20 <dminuoso> Mmm
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07:37:55 <Profpatsch> I can lift an Applicative into a Monoid with Ap, but can I get a Monoid instance out of an Applicative somehow? Does that even make sense?
07:38:56 <Profpatsch> Probably not
07:38:58 <dminuoso> Profpatsch: In a categorical sense applicatives are monoids
07:39:05 <dminuoso> If you're just after something monoidy looking.
07:39:38 <dminuoso> Profpatsch: Though whats wrong with Ap.
07:39:59 <Profpatsch> In particular, I want to define a thingy that combines a parser and a json schema encoding
07:40:48 <Profpatsch> My parser is a normal applicative, and my schema encoder was a Map [Text] Encoding before, which is Monoid so the full type is isomorphic to (Map [Text] Encoding, Parser a) which is Applicative
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07:42:16 <Profpatsch> But turning the Map [Text] into a nested schema is kind of a bore, and I can’t easily add more fields to the recursive “layers” (it’s a tree of objects with annotations and encodings at the leaves), so I thought about using Free AnnF Encoding instead
07:42:22 <Profpatsch> but that’s not Monoid
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07:43:19 <dminuoso> gensyst: So Im just staring at the RTS, and it seems that if you forkOS inside a bound thread, the implementation currently will put it on the same OS thread.
07:43:42 <dminuoso> Look at how forkOS_createThread just calls phread_create(&tid, NULL, forkOS_createThreadWrapper, (void*)entry);
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07:44:16 <dminuoso> So if Im right, you should be able to double forkOS (such that you can kick off a finalizer worker that waits on an MVar in the main thread)
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07:45:13 <Profpatsch> gensyst: like https://hackage.haskell.org/package/unagi-chan for example
07:45:38 <gensyst> dminuoso, interesting! but after doing forkOS, can i always just keep running subsequent code, even if the previous forkOS is just waiting? (I'm guessing that's fine because normall Haskell code, including an infinite mvar waiting.) just runs normally on any haskell thread and only the C FFI run on the os thread. So there's no OS thread that's blocking.
07:46:08 <gensyst> s/waiting,)/waiting,
07:46:33 <dminuoso> gensyst: the forkOS itself is not waiting.
07:46:54 <dminuoso> But honestly I dont know what the RTS is *supposed* to do here.
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07:47:13 <dminuoso> Given that double forkOS does not give you a documented guarantee
07:48:26 <gensyst> dminuoso, that might call for a new "forkOSSame ::"? might be worth asking for?
07:48:51 <dminuoso> gensyst: No clue, this type of discussion is better held in #ghc, the mailing list or the GHC issue tracker.
07:50:04 <dminuoso> gensyst: Most of the code surrounding this is very old and was written by Simon Marlow.
07:50:12 <dminuoso> Might want to ping him perhaps
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07:52:11 <dminuoso> gensyst: Note when I say `double forkOS` I mean it in a nested fashion of course.
07:52:35 <dminuoso> `forkOS f >> forkOS f` gives you no guarantees (since there could be preemption in between them, with the second IO action being executed in another Taskj)
07:53:00 <dminuoso> So something like `forkOS (forkOS f >> f)`
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07:54:24 <dminuoso> It largely boils down to what rts_evalStableIO does really
07:55:36 <Profpatsch> gensyst: why are you trying to cross the C/Haskell FFI interface in a tight loop in the first place anyway?
07:55:46 <Profpatsch> Nothing good can come of this
07:56:21 <Profpatsch> Chunk it up to bigger things on the C side, something that’s a few ms of work at least
07:57:04 <Profpatsch> I think even if you get past this MVar problem, you will probably notice that C FFI is not free in that it also takes a considerable amount of time to context switch (at least iirc)
07:57:24 <Profpatsch> Maybe I’m wrong, but I’d be surprised
07:59:02 <dminuoso> gensyst: It's relatively crazy that forkOS isnt built upon haskell threads.
07:59:28 <merijn> dminuoso: It is? Unless I misunderstand what you mean?
07:59:31 <dminuoso> Ah but hold on -> no now that I understand how it works, nested forkOS wont work.
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07:59:53 <ncf> monochrom: your insight appears in the beginning of chapter 4 in Escardó's "Synthetic topology of data types and classical spaces" (i am reading it now)
08:00:22 <dminuoso> merijn: Its not. Its a bare bone pthread_create that directly calls into rts_evalStableIO
08:00:39 <dminuoso> Which is a variant of rts_evalStableIOMain
08:00:55 <merijn> dminuoso: Which is a Haskell threat? :p
08:00:59 <merijn> *thread
08:01:08 <dminuoso> mmm
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08:04:20 <dminuoso> merijn: How is forkOS pinned to a particular OS thread then?
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08:05:42 <dminuoso> Is it rts_lock()?
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08:06:08 <merijn> dminuoso: Keep in mind I haven't looked at the actual implementation, but afaik the only way threads move from capabilities is via work stealing
08:06:17 <merijn> so I imagine they just have a flag set that prevents stealing
08:06:23 <dminuoso> merijn: No, there's no such flag.
08:06:46 <dminuoso> There's virtually no difference between rts_evalStableIO and rts_evalStableIOMain other than some top level handler stuff
08:06:59 <dminuoso> However, forkOS surrounds its rts_evalStableIO call with rts_lock and rts_unlock
08:08:12 <dminuoso> Ahh.. indeed.
08:08:18 <dminuoso> rts_lock bounds the current task
08:08:38 <int-e> dminuoso: https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/blob/master/rts/Schedule.c#L341-356 is one possible alternative starting point for digging deeper
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08:10:40 <dminuoso> int-e: Okay yeah that fits my findings. So rts_lock() bounds the current task, then the rts_eval* stuff can run which puts it on the runqueue.
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08:15:40 <dminuoso> Ah shame
08:15:42 <dminuoso> do mv <- newEmptyMVar; forkOS (forkIO (putMVar mv =<< isCurrentThreadBound) >> pure ()); print =<< readMVar mv
08:15:44 <dminuoso> Gives me a `False`.
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08:16:33 <int-e> as it should, otherwise all threads forked from `main` would be bound.
08:16:47 <dminuoso> Why would they? Is main bound?
08:16:50 <int-e> yes
08:17:48 <int-e> (if you use the threaded RTS)
08:18:04 <dminuoso> That's interesting
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10:11:28 <gensyst> dminuoso, so nested forkOS solution is out of the question? :(
10:11:36 <gensyst> (sorry stepped out for a while)
10:12:14 <gensyst> looking at the implementation, do you think it would be a hard thing to add a "forkOS_SAME" to GHC?
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10:12:19 <dminuoso> gensyst: After some more careful research, yes.
10:12:33 <dminuoso> gensyst: Mmm, well you would rather need a fork# primop variant
10:12:44 <dminuoso> I suspect it wouldnt be hard
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10:15:18 <dminuoso> See rts/PrimOps.cmm
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10:16:08 <dminuoso> A version of createThread in rts/Threads.c
10:16:12 <dminuoso> Fed all the way into a primop
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10:16:35 <dminuoso> Say forkBound#
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11:22:14 <merijn> gensyst: I mean, at this point I think (assuming this is still the same issue) it's literally easier to fix the RTS to support the functionality you want, rather than this kinda hacky Haskell side implementation :p
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11:31:28 <merijn> (assuming this is still somehow related to the finalizer problem)
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12:33:21 <maerwald[m]> merijn: you at Zurihac?
12:35:16 <merijn> maerwald[m]: No, my life calendar during June/July is already more than overfull for me to fit it in this year :)
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12:50:15 <maerwald[m]> booo
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12:52:11 <merijn> maerwald[m]: Why? What's up?
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12:53:28 <maerwald[m]> Nothing
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13:38:01 <gensyst> merijn, adding a new forkOSSame e.g. would require RTS changes right?
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13:38:10 <gensyst> or mkWeakRefSame
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13:38:18 <gensyst> (same as in, same as original bound thread)
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13:38:44 <gensyst> (i.e. i'm wondering, the ideas we were floating earlier, weren't they already RTS changes?)
13:38:56 <merijn> gensyst: Probably? Is this still related to your finalizer changes
13:39:22 <merijn> gensyst: yes, but changing the RTS to have better functionality wrt finalizers is probably more generally useful :)
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13:39:38 <gensyst> yeah it is
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13:42:40 <merijn> And I don't think 1 is much easier than the other, so you'd be better off doing the more useful thing
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16:00:17 <jade[m]> hm, I seem to be getting an unused-imports warning even though I do use the imports and removing them breaks my program?
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16:01:15 <jade[m]> app/Style.hs:8:1: warning: [-Wunused-imports]... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/97b04b63b05acfd0ab00c8f7bd9a67af5527154f>)
16:01:36 <jade[m]> removing the line in question I get a big error with all of them missing
16:01:54 <jade[m]> oh fuck im so stupid
16:03:00 <jade[m]> for some reason it marked the whole line both with hlint and ghc, but it only referred to some of them
16:03:22 <[exa]> another problem successfully rubberducked. next!
16:03:45 <jade[m]> oddly enough it does mark only the one in question if it's just one
16:03:55 <jade[m]> but with more it shows the entire line as redundant
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16:03:56 <[exa]> jade[m]: yeah combining error locations sensibly is kinda hard
16:04:39 <[exa]> you'd say that just highlighting the "shortest span" would be helpful, but that confuses people for being a little misleadingly specific to the whole given span
16:05:25 <jade[m]> makes sense
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16:06:14 <[exa]> others may freak out if they get a separate message for each extra identifier
16:06:29 <[exa]> kinda guess this was the easiest minimal-questionable-effort soluton
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16:43:34 <probie> Can I get GHC to call foreign code with GHC's own calling convention?
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16:52:21 <carbolymer> is `cabal get` able to reach to custom repository, besides hackage? it returns `There is no package` when I try to do that
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16:52:55 <[exa]> hm, any ideas on terse way sto write a condition that "the list is exactly someGivenList++aSingleExtraElement"?
16:53:55 <carbolymer> [exa]: (`==` aSingleExtraElement) . head . reverse
16:53:55 <carbolymer> ?
16:54:01 <probie> and that single extra element is always at the end?
16:54:11 <carbolymer> [exa]: plus account for empty lists etc
16:54:14 <[exa]> ohhhh reverse
16:54:57 <[exa]> anyway yeah the extra element is exactly at the end
16:55:10 <[exa]> thx carbolymer that was the hint I needed :D
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16:55:30 <carbolymer> [exa]: yw
16:55:42 <mauke> list == someGivenList ++ [aSingleExtraElement]
16:57:43 <[exa]> mauke: yeah that would be the other way, list == someGiveList ++ [last list]
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16:59:11 <mauke> take (length list - 1) list, but that doesn't stream well
16:59:29 <[Leary]> Use `init`?
16:59:44 <mauke> ah, right
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17:00:04 <mauke> init list == someGivenList
17:00:59 <[exa]> oh yeah, true
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17:38:47 <shapr> Has anyone hit the problem with connection and the fork from cryptonite to crypton?
17:38:56 <shapr> Is there a known fix for the connection library?
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18:03:10 <shapr> Perhaps I should be consistently using cabal.freeze files?
18:03:13 shapr grumbles
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18:09:52 <Vq> shapr: Is that like a flake.lock?
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18:11:03 <sm> or something like a stackage snapshot ?
18:11:18 <sm> anyway yes, it sounds like you should be doing something like that in the face of crypton* chaos
18:11:43 <sm> life is too short for non-reproducible build plans
18:11:49 <jean-paul[m]> cabal freeze dumps the versions it has right now, so you're isolated from future cabal updates
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18:12:31 <jean-paul[m]> it's been unclear to me whether it's a good idea to have these in version control or not, but now it is clear that not having them is definitely worse
18:13:08 <sclv> i think you need to constrain the version for tls: https://github.com/haskell-tls/hs-tls/issues/455
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18:14:20 <jean-paul[m]> and warp-tls and http-client-tls and maybe some other stuff
18:14:48 <shapr> Vq: haha, it's kinda like that, yeah. But only if I were using haskell.nix which I'm not
18:15:07 <shapr> sclv: Tried that, it's not enough
18:16:21 <shapr> I hit a problem with WarpTLS picking up crypton-x509 when I was depending on x509 in the rest of the package
18:17:13 Vq hasn't looked into haskell.nix yet
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19:35:32 <eugenrh> Hello! I keep reading that foldr works on infinite lists.. and I'm frustrated because I fail to understand how that's possible..
19:36:10 <geekosaur> because it can produce results before reaching the end of the list, as it works lazily
19:36:23 <geekosaur> so it's only as infinite as what is demanded of it
19:36:36 <eugenrh> an example, please?
19:36:48 <dolio> > foldr (:) [] [1..]
19:36:49 <lambdabot> [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,...
19:37:25 <mauke> > foldr (\x z -> x) 42 [0..]
19:37:27 <lambdabot> 0
19:38:07 <mauke> z is the result of folding the rest of the infinite list. we don't use it, so nothing happens
19:38:14 <geekosaur> note that this requires a lazy operation as well; if it is strict then it will demand the whole list, which obviously doesn't work for infinite lists
19:38:32 <geekosaur> as mauke just showed
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19:38:52 <geekosaur> (more specifically strict in its second parameter)
19:38:59 <eugenrh> ok, I read about that short-circuiting..
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19:39:31 <dolio> Oh yeah.
19:39:53 <dolio> > foldr (\n b -> n > 10 || b) False [0..]
19:39:55 <lambdabot> True
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19:41:22 <mauke> > foldr f z [0 ..]
19:41:23 <lambdabot> f 0 (f 1 (f 2 (f 3 (f 4 (f 5 (f 6 (f 7 (f 8 (f 9 (f 10 (f 11 (f 12 (f 13 (f ...
19:41:47 <mauke> as long as f doesn't use its second argument too much, we'll terminate :-)
19:41:52 <jade[m]> lambdabot foes that?
19:41:55 <jade[m]> that's cool
19:42:07 <jade[m]> s/foes/does
19:42:12 <moet> hi, what is a good way to monitor/poll sysfs nodes for changes in haskell? the documentation i've found says that sysfs can be monitored with poll/select (not with inotify), so I'm trying to use GHC's Control.Concurrent.threadWaitRead or GHC.Event.registerFd, but both seem to continuiously signal "ready to read"
19:42:13 <geekosaur> you can, too; look at the `simple-reflect` package
19:42:13 <mauke> we're cheating, of course
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19:43:26 <eugenrh> it seems like all those examples don't have too much practicality...
19:43:34 <moet> i wonder if maybe these facilities (threadWaitRead and registerFd) are only good when it's a file stream which is continually appended (ie. not a node for which you seek 0 before reads)
19:44:17 <jade[m]> eugenrh: the one dealing with booleans is actually really interesting
19:45:10 <dolio> > any (> 10) [0..]
19:45:11 <lambdabot> True
19:45:14 <geekosaur> simple examples do tend to be too simple to be practical, though. the interesting ones tend to be harder to tease apart / have too many moving parts
19:45:37 <mauke> you asked how it's possible. these are just proofs of concept
19:45:51 <mauke> we can do a lazy map in terms of foldr
19:45:54 <jean-paul[m]> zip [0..] something is simple but also plenty practical and useful
19:46:13 <mauke> zip in terms of foldr? that sounds non-trivial
19:46:24 <dolio> Yeah, zip is tricky.
19:46:55 <jean-paul[m]> oh, I missed the foldr context.
19:47:14 <mauke> :t let xmap f xs = foldr (\x z -> f x : z) [] xs in xmap
19:47:15 <lambdabot> Foldable t1 => (t2 -> a) -> t1 t2 -> [a]
19:47:58 <mauke> > let xmap f xs = foldr (\x z -> f x : z) [] xs in take 5 (xmap show [0 ..])
19:48:00 <lambdabot> ["0","1","2","3","4"]
19:48:11 <mauke> > let xmap f xs = foldr (\x z -> f x : z) [] xs in xmap show [0 ..]
19:48:12 <lambdabot> ["0","1","2","3","4","5","6","7","8","9","10","11","12","13","14","15","16",...
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19:48:50 <merijn> moet: pretty sure sysfs *is* always read to read, that's why polling is suggested
19:49:13 <eugenrh> thanks, lot's of answers.. I'll check them carefully.
19:50:49 <merijn> eugenrh: A tried and tested method is: grab a pen and paper and do step by step substitution of function definitions into expressions (which is basically what people were showing with lambdabot)
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19:51:54 <moet> merijn: polling as in poll() or polling as in just read it over and over
19:52:43 <merijn> moet: Depends on where you read that :p
19:52:54 <merijn> moet: I would interpret it as "reading over and over"
19:53:22 <merijn> moet: the RTS uses epoll/kqueue internally, so it's notion of "readable" is "whenever epoll/kqueue signal it's readable"
19:54:07 <ncf> > let zip = foldr (\x f ys -> foldr (\y z -> (x,y) : f (tail ys)) [] ys) (const []) in zip [0..5] [6..15]
19:54:08 <lambdabot> [(0,6),(1,7),(2,8),(3,9),(4,10),(5,11)]
19:54:19 <ncf> ugly
19:54:28 <merijn> I still find simple-reflect the simplest example to ponder :p
19:54:33 <merijn> > foldr f z [a,b,c]
19:54:35 <lambdabot> f a (f b (f c z))
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19:57:13 <moet> merijn: ok, thanks.. i was searching hard for a wrong answer I guess :)
19:58:04 <merijn> moet: I mean, it's possible the RTS happens to be wrong in this specific case, but seems unlikely compared to "sysfs is always readable and therefore threadWaitRead always immediately returns ready"
20:02:19 <jade[m]> <lambdabot> " [(0,6),(1,7),(2,8),(3,9),(4,10)..." <- where's the code for this? the bridge might have dropped it
20:02:34 <moet> yes, merijn, i think you are right; i was expecting sysfs nodes to behave like sockets, but it seems they are just always ready
20:03:59 <ncf> jade[m]: <ncf> > let zip = foldr (\x f ys -> foldr (\y z -> (x,y) : f (tail ys)) [] ys) (const []) in zip [0..5] [6..15]
20:04:15 <ncf> (use an irc client i'm BEGGING you)
20:04:35 <jade[m]> thanks, I probably should
20:06:38 <ncf> i can recommend thelounge if you don't like terminals
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20:08:33 <jade[m]> I do like terminals very much actually haha
20:08:46 <jade[m]> thanks flr the suggestion, I'm currently on mobile (android)
20:08:53 <jade[m]> s/flr/for
20:09:25 <ncf> then the reference is weechat (there's an android relay client thing)
20:09:54 <ncf> alternatively glguy has an irc client written in haskell
20:10:05 <jade[m]> thanks! what about RevolutionIRC? That one is mentioned on the libera chat website
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20:12:15 <ncf> if you only need a client for android, sure. note however that you will have to set up some kind of bouncer if you want to have persistent sessions
20:12:32 <ncf> (similarly to how you'd set up a matrix instance, or use someone else's)
20:13:03 <jade[m]> ah, yeah my main use case is desktop, so I might just keep being on the bridge here and get a proper irc client for desktop
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20:13:46 <probie> As far as an android client goes, I've had a good experience with Goguma. It probably doesn't hurt that the bouncer I'm using is Soju, which is written by the same author
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20:19:10 <Jade128> I think I made it?
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20:19:32 <ncf> yes
20:19:44 <Jade128> very cool, thank you
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22:42:51 <d34df00d> Hi!
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22:43:11 <d34df00d> It's more of a tooling question, but is it possible to have a version of ghc (as managed by ghcup) local to a project?
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22:43:37 <d34df00d> I have a cabal project that builds successfully after `ghcup set 8.10`, say, but I don't want to have ghc 8.10 as the global default.
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22:44:30 <DustinStiles[m]> I'm a noob, so take my answer with a grain of salt, but I know that you can do this in stack, either by setting the ghc version in the new command, or by telling stack to depend on whatever ghcup is using.
22:44:48 <DustinStiles[m]> Unfortunately I'm not as familiar with cabal proper 😶
22:44:55 <yushyin> d34df00d: see the with-compiler option for cabal.project
22:45:01 <d34df00d> Yep, writing a simple stack.yaml that sets resolver to the right ghc version is my fallback.
22:46:19 <ddellacosta> you can also do this with nix pretty easily, but, then you are getting involved with nix https://serokell.io/blog/practical-nix-flakes#potential-modifications-and-troubleshooting
22:46:21 <yushyin> ghcup has symlinks to versioned filenames for every compilerversion, you can use that with `with-compiler'
22:46:36 <d34df00d> yushyin: that seems right what I need! Just curious, can I do that in cabal.project.local? Other folks building this project might have slightly different ghc versions they prefer, so I don't want to force my choices on anybody else.
22:47:50 <yushyin> i guess? you'll have to try it out ^^
22:47:57 <glguy> Yes, it goes into the cabal.project.local; you can make that file with: cabal configure -w ghc-X.y.z
22:48:25 <yushyin> ^ there you go ;)
22:48:42 <d34df00d> Also, I'm fairly new to ghcup stuff, so how do I get the right hls version that works with this ghc version? Or do I just ghcup install hls and it does the rest for all ghc versions installed?
22:48:47 <d34df00d> glguy: yay nice!
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22:49:01 <glguy> ghcup tui will show you which GHC's have HLS support
22:49:13 <glguy> so once you install hls, those are the versions that will be supported
22:49:23 <glguy> installing hls installs support for all the supported versions at once
22:49:38 <d34df00d> Nice, that's much easier than building hls manually.
22:49:40 <yushyin> and hls has a wrapper binary that selects the correct versioned hls binary
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22:58:41 <eugenrh> Ok, so now, after more studying, I think I understand the folding on infinite lists. First, foldl never works on them, since it calls itself recursively -- no matter what -- for each element in the list:
22:58:58 <eugenrh> @src foldl
22:58:58 <lambdabot> foldl f z [] = z
22:58:58 <lambdabot> foldl f z (x:xs) = foldl f (f z x) xs
22:59:25 <eugenrh> By contrast, foldr calls the folding function f:
22:59:45 <eugenrh> @src foldr
22:59:45 <lambdabot> foldr f z [] = z
22:59:45 <lambdabot> foldr f z (x:xs) = f x (foldr f z xs)
23:00:13 <eugenrh> Here, the recursion happens *only* when that 2nd argument of f needs to be evaluated. So, we can implement the function f (\x z -> ...) in such a way that, at some point, we stop refering to the accumulator z -- "short-circuting", like this:
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23:00:43 <eugenrh> > foldr (\x z -> if mod x 10==0 then 0 else ( x `mod` 10)*z) undefined [1..]
23:00:44 <lambdabot> 0
23:01:12 <eugenrh> ^ Example adopted from https://wiki.haskell.org/Foldr_Foldl_Foldl' where it also suggests using 'undefined' as initial value when working only with infinite lists.
23:01:40 <eugenrh> Thanks everybody for the previous disscusion and help!
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23:25:39 <juri_> hmm. where's the quickcheck maintainer? i'd like to punch them in the face, and then buy them a beer.
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23:27:07 <sm> lol
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23:28:15 <geekosaur> @remember juri_ <juri_> hmm. where's the quickcheck maintainer? i'd like to punch them in the face, and then buy them a beer.
23:28:15 <lambdabot> Done.
23:30:12 <juri_> quickcheck got a lot better at feeding my program values that break everything (on a minor release, bad!). so i just spent the last week fixing up property tests, and have actually found a bug in my engine, that was hiding behing all of the flakiness.
23:30:38 <sm> awesome
23:30:49 <sm> maybe the violence is not justified after all
23:31:14 <juri_> major change on a minor release.. boo. :)
23:31:36 <sm> ah.. unfortunate
23:32:06 <juri_> still, good job. poked holes in all kinds of thing. i had to learn new math, just to make my tests green.
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23:35:01 <hpc> if that counts as a breaking change, i don't know what to think anymore :P
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23:37:10 <sm> generating harder tests, for a test generator .. sounds a bit breakingish ?
23:37:26 <sm> maybe not breaking, but not minor either
23:39:10 <hpc> it doesn't make you change your test suite though, which is arguably the user of that api here
23:39:17 <hpc> it just makes the runtime behavior better :D
23:46:36 <sm> ...QuickCheck maintainer looks for an exit while drunken devs continue their loud debate ... :)
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All times are in UTC on 2023-06-06.