Logs on 2023-06-29 (liberachat/#haskell)

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02:26:00	<smoge>	Is there a reason a project stills requires ghc-8.10.7 and not newer versions?
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02:27:57	<sm>	no active maintainer is a common one
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02:28:30	<sm>	dependencies that don't work with newer ghc is another
02:28:50	<smoge>	it is active, that's why I wonder
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02:44:12	<probie>	Is it a library, or an executable? If it's an executable it might just be that they don't see the point in upgrading, or it's being packaged for a distro which still only has 8.10
02:45:26	<sm>	smoge: it's probably discussed in the issue tracker then
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03:31:44	<glguy>	Is it possible to put a haddock comment on a parser definition generated by happy?
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04:27:27	<jackdk>	ghcjs users often want to support 8.10.7
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04:34:35	<dolio>	We were using 8.10.7 at work until recently, because we have other stuff to do than fix miscellaneous discrepancies between versions.
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09:25:09	<Square>	I've never seen this "foldFree :: (Applicative f, Monad m) => (forall x . f x -> m x) -> Free f a -> m a" as used in https://hackage.haskell.org/package/free-5.2/docs/src/Control.Monad.Free.Ap.html#foldFree
09:27:52	<Square>	is that constraint saying f must be "x -> m x" ?
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09:28:48	<Square>	That is the "forall x . f x -> m x" part
09:28:58	<ncf>	for all applicative functors f and monads m, for all natural transformations (forall x. f x -> m x), you get a monad homomorphism (forall a.) Free f a -> m a
09:29:39	<Square>	Didn't know you could be so explicit in your constraints.
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09:30:23	<ncf>	well, you can't require or enforce "monad homomorphism", that's just part of the "contract"
09:31:22	<Square>	oh wait. f is a type. Doh.
09:32:16	<ncf>	f has kind * -> *
09:33:25	<Square>	yup
09:34:14	<ncf>	note that this pretty much says that Free is a left adjoint to the forgetful functor from monads to endofunctors, which is pretty much its defining property
09:34:40	<ncf>	so this function is really important!
09:35:31	<mniip>	Square, have you encountered ExplicitForAll or RankNTypes before?
09:35:49	<ncf>	er, well that would apply to the foldFree from Control.Monad.Free, not sure about the .Ap thing
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09:39:22	<mniip>	if not, I feel like you may be a little bit ahead of yourself :P
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09:51:07	<Square>	mniip, gotcha. RankNTypes I've used a bunch. ExplicitForAll not much.
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09:52:02	<mniip>	well, RankNTypes implies ExplicitForAll
09:52:30	<mniip>	ExplicitForAll enables the syntax "forall type variables. SomeType"
09:52:54	<mniip>	RankNTypes allows the syntax to be used on the left hand side of an arrow, leading to types that are actually "rank N"
09:53:14	<mniip>	so yeah this is just an instance of RankNTypes, nothing more
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09:54:16	<Square>	I'm new to Free monads. Thought I'd explore them a bit. So yeah, then i stumbled upon this.
09:55:30	<Guest76>	I have a question.
09:55:31	<Guest76>	I want to create a list that will generate an error if the numbers don't sum up to 10.
09:55:31	<Guest76>	Strictly speaking, I don't need such a list, but I simplify it because I believe that if I understand how to create this, I can implement my desired type.
09:55:32	<Guest76>	For example,
09:55:32	<Guest76>	a = FixedSizedList [3, 3, 3, 1]
09:55:33	<Guest76>	This is not an error.
09:55:33	<Guest76>	b = FixedSizedList [3, 3, 3]
09:55:34	<Guest76>	This is an error and cannot be defined.
09:55:34	<Guest76>	I want the sum of the elements in the list to always be 10.
09:55:35	<Guest76>	I also do not want extensibility to be able to set it to a number other than 10.
09:55:35	<Guest76>	If anyone knows how to implement such a data type, I would like to know.
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09:57:12	<mniip>	the usual way to do this is to make a newtype TenList = UnsafeMkTenList { getList :: [Int] }; and a function mkTenList :: [Int] -> Maybe TenList
09:57:31	<mniip>	you can then put these in a module where UnsafeMkTenList is not exported
09:59:51	<mniip>	this is punting the check to runtime though: if you do Just b = mkTenList [3, 3, 3]; that's gonna fail at runtime
10:02:19	<mniip>	this solves the problem of tracking validity of runtime data, but if your problem is verification of compile-time constants, then that's completely different
10:02:52	<mniip>	that one would require TemplateHaskell or singletons, both fairly advanced topics
10:02:58	<ncf>	you could also look for an alternative representation that doesn't allow invalid states to be represented. for example, lists-of-naturals-that-sum-to-10 should be equivalent to 11-uples of natural numbers, where [3, 3, 3, 1] is encoded as (0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 1, 0)
10:03:59	<mniip>	I don't think that's equivalent?
10:04:48	<mniip>	there's only finitely many lists of natural numbers that sum to 10
10:04:55	<ncf>	i'm allowing 0
10:05:00	<mniip>	o
10:05:11	<mniip>	I don't understand the encoding then
10:05:19	<mniip>	stars-and-bars comes to mind but that's not what you're doing
10:06:31	<mniip>	data List (n :: Nat) where { Star :: List (n - 1) -> List n; Bar :: List n -> List n }
10:07:00	<mniip>	Nil :: List 0
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10:07:24	<int-e>	ncf: I think you went the wrong way... it should be 9-tuples (the gaps between ten 1-s)
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10:07:59	<mniip>	smart
10:08:49	<mniip>	there's exactly 10 stars so we keep track how many bars are between each
10:09:13	<Guest76>	As a matter of fact, I want to create a type about music notation.
10:09:13	<Guest76>	I have completed the type for notes and rests etc., but I am struggling with the implementation of measures of music notation.
10:09:13	<mniip>	I think it is 11-tuples because the leftmost bars and the rightmost bars correspond to leading/trailing zeros in the list
10:09:14	<Guest76>	The total length of notes and rests in a measure must always be the length of one whole note, so I want to generate an error if the length is more or less than a whole note.
10:09:14	<Guest76>	If the length of all notes is 1, we want to implement an ordered list where the numerical value of the sum of notes of length 1/4 or 1/8 is 1.
10:09:15	<Guest76>	What about these cases?
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10:09:44	<int-e>	mniip: but we shouldn't allow zeros
10:09:46	<mniip>	gotta clarify, do you want a runtime error or a compile time error?
10:10:10	<int-e>	(or maybe I didn't get enough context)
10:10:54	<int-e>	The reason to be ware of zeros is that otherwise we quickly have infinitely many lists... [10], [0,10], [0,0,10], [0,0,0,10], ...
10:10:59	<int-e>	*wary
10:11:39	<Guest76>	I am not sure which is more appropriate, but I would like either a run-time error or a compile-time error.
10:11:39	<Guest76>	I would like an error to occur when an attempt is made to define the wrong measure.
10:12:06	<mniip>	define when? when you get notes from user input? or when you have notes in your source code?
10:13:14	<mniip>	first is easy second is hard
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10:15:12	<Guest76>	I was thinking of the case of second one.
10:15:20	<int-e>	mniip: Oh I see. Your types just allows zeros because you can iterate `Bar` as often as you please. Which is fine, just different from what ncf said.
10:15:22	<ncf>	int-e: plus two extremities
10:15:47	<ncf>	leading and trailing zeroes should correspond to bars before and after all the 1s
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10:16:16	<mniip>	you will probably need GADTs with TypeFamilies
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10:16:36	<int-e>	you can have \|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|******\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\| in mniip's `List 10` type.
10:17:19	<Guest76>	I came across GADT in my research, but I didn't know how to handle it.
10:17:51	<ncf>	that would code to (5,3,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,6,6) in my thing
10:17:53	<int-e>	ncf: Ah
10:18:09	<int-e>	ncf: I got distracted by your example only having 0s and 1s. Sorry.
10:18:15	<ncf>	np
10:18:59	<ncf>	yeah the tuple has numbers > 1 iff the list has a 0
10:19:45	<ncf>	(which incidentally means that it's easy to restrict to non-zero lists: just swap Bool for Nat)
10:20:16	<int-e>	...has a 0 not at the start or end of the list
10:20:28	<ncf>	oh
10:20:49	<Guest76>	My assumption is that the length of a note should always be a non-zero positive fractional value (I am currently using Ratio Word).
10:20:49	<Guest76>	So I think it should also be an error if it contains zero or negative values.
10:21:21	<int-e>	ncf: so now you're getting to the point I was trying to make.
10:21:24	<ncf>	right so swap Bool for Nat and 9 for 11 :)
10:21:26	<Guest76>	not fractional value, rational value
10:21:31	<ncf>	yeah
10:24:04	<int-e>	I'm sure it's a fun exercise, but is it really worth the effort to encode that in the type?
10:25:58	<Guest76>	For Example
10:25:59	<Guest76>	\| (1/4) (1/4) (1/2) \|
10:25:59	<Guest76>	OK
10:26:00	<Guest76>	\| (1/4) (1/4) (1/8) (1/8) (1/8) (1/8) \|
10:26:00	<Guest76>	OK
10:26:01	<Guest76>	\| (1/4) (1/4) (1/4) (1/4) (1/4) \|
10:26:01	<Guest76>	Error
10:26:02	<Guest76>	\| (1/4) (1/4) (0) (1/2) \|
10:26:02	<Guest76>	Error
10:26:03	<Guest76>	\| (1/4) (1/4) (1/2) (1/4) (1/4) (-1/2) \|
10:26:03	<Guest76>	Error
10:26:05	<int-e>	arhg
10:26:21	<int-e>	please use a pastebin?
10:26:43	<int-e>	Hackage has at least one implementation of type-level rationals: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/typenums-0.1.4/docs/Data-TypeNums-Rats.html
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10:32:02	<Guest76>	I have never used Pastebin before.
10:32:02	<Guest76>	Can I just paste the example from earlier?
10:32:30	<Guest76>	https://pastebin.com/D1DuLFqy
10:34:59	<mniip>	why use rationals (a quotient type) if you can use homogeneous coordinates (a setoid)
10:35:11	<mniip>	ex: https://play.haskell.org/saved/unFtCAAg
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10:39:54	<mniip>	even better: with {-# OPTIONS_GHC -fplugin GHC.TypeLits.Normalise #-} you can have the typechecker infer "6" from the resulting linear equation
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10:41:04	<Guest76>	Indeed, this approach would not require the use of rational numbers.
10:41:05	<Guest76>	It seems to me that there is no need to bother using rational numbers, because even the dotted note can be represented entirely by a finite number of notes only, up to about a sixteenth or a thirty-second note, if we regard it as a composition of the original note and its half note.
10:41:56	<mniip>	well, if you have a "smallest note size" then the situation simplifies greatly
10:42:07	<mniip>	but my impression of music notation is that you in principle do not
10:42:54	ski	idly ponders irrational-length notes
10:43:06	<mniip>	not only because you can add arbitrarily many flags, but also because you can have triplets and quintuplets and whatnot
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10:43:53	<int-e>	ski: clearly we need a type-level CReal implementation (or whatever flavor of computable reals you prefer)
10:44:12	<mniip>	CReal does not do equality
10:44:17	<int-e>	I know!
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10:45:49	<mniip>	irrationality beside, Q is not finitely generated
10:46:17	<ncf>	mniip: aren't quotient and setoids the same thing in haskell
10:46:18	<int-e>	It is, as a field.
10:46:24	<ski>	i guess probably irrational intervals would be more common, in practice
10:46:35	<ncf>	quotient types*
10:46:48	<int-e>	Hmm, music theory, time to reread https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagorean_comma
10:47:07	<mniip>	neither of these are a thing in value-level haskell
10:48:04	<mniip>	I'm mostly referring to the idea of representing a ratio p/q as a polymorphic family of values with indices forall k. (pk, qk)
10:48:40	<ski>	that's a quotient type/set representation, yea
10:48:50	<ncf>	i don't follow
10:49:10	<mniip>	ok sorry yes it is a quotient type
10:49:21	<mniip>	I guess I meant instead of choosing representatives explicitly
10:49:40	<ncf>	i see
10:49:52	<ski>	often you combine both : search trees
10:51:21	<ski>	(only some tree representations are valid. then out of those, we impose an equivalence relation)
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13:23:46	<talismanick>	I built a custom list type `data List a = Nil \| Cons a (List a)` and played around with what sorts of instances I could give it
13:24:15	<talismanick>	Is the bind implementation `l >>= f = foldr (<>) mempty $ f <$> l` unique, and, if so, how might I prove it?
13:27:32	<jade[m]>	it is, as it is equivialent to concatMap, but I'm not sure how you'd prove it
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13:31:29	<talismanick>	Maybe I should say
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13:33:22	<talismanick>	"unique up to isomorphism" in case of different monoid or foldable instances
13:40:14	<ski>	"unique up to isomorphism" is for structures, not for operations
13:43:09	<ski>	one way to show uniqueness would be to show that `(>>=) = concatMap' is equivalent to your definition above, for every possible value of `(>>=)' (out of those satisfying the monad laws ?)
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13:56:22	<talismanick>	ski: well, showing the equivalent ones are precisely the lawful ones is the hard part
13:56:57	<talismanick>	because I'd like to think it's easy to come up with an unlawful one (not that I've tried)
13:57:13	<talismanick>	that isn't the same
13:57:40	<ski>	"showing the equivalent ones are precisely the lawful ones" -- huh ?
13:59:40	<talismanick>	proving that every lawful bind is the same as concatMap
14:01:11	<dminuoso_>	talismanick: The property is called extensional equivalence.
14:01:35	<dminuoso_>	So you're trying to prove that all lawful implementations of (>>=) for [] are extensionally equivalent?
14:01:40	<talismanick>	right, that's the term I was looking for
14:01:47	<talismanick>	yeah
14:02:31	<dminuoso_>	If possible, I suspect you have to prove by contradiction.
14:02:43	<ski>	well, i wasn't talking about that, really. i was talking about showing that your implementation was unique, out of all lawful ones
14:04:10	<ski>	`unique x. ..x..' being equivalent to `exists c. forall x. x = c <=> ..x..'
14:05:27	<ski>	(guess i should say `exists_unique x. ..x..', to distinguish from the "at most one" case)
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14:06:57	<talismanick>	dminuoso_: As in, not practical to prove with Haskell's type-level machinery (even Liquid), or outright impossible?
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14:31:47	<mniip>	talismanick, it's not unique
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14:32:39	<mniip>	pretty sure you can reshuffle the output list in subtle ways while still keeping the monad laws
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14:33:12	<[Leary]>	Yeah, I got nerdsniped ... fair interleave is looking pretty lawful.
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14:37:13	<mniip>	[Leary], you mean something like concat . transpose?
14:37:19	<[Leary]>	Yeah.
14:37:28	<mniip>	that fails associativity
14:37:31	<ncf>	i doubt that's assoc- yeah
14:38:27	<ncf>	hmm https://hackage.haskell.org/package/exotic-list-monads-1.0.1/docs/Control-Monad-List-Exotic.html
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14:39:53	<[Leary]>	I was down to `fmap (concat . transpose . fmap f) = fmap f . concat . transpose` and thinking "yeah they'll just commute and vanish", but on second glance, the extra level of `fmap` remains, and matters. Oop.s
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14:41:39	<mniip>	oh yeah Odd
14:41:42	<mniip>	that's an odd one
14:41:48	<mniip>	I've checked and it's lawful
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14:45:35	<ncf>	some pretty ridiculous stuff in there
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14:50:57	<adeptangel>	hello, beginner question here: what is going on here? https://paste.tomsmeding.com/a7D6Eea3
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14:52:02	<merijn>	adeptangel: What confuses you about that?
14:52:05	<mauke>	adeptangel: what do you mean?
14:52:48	<mniip>	post the error message too
14:53:03	<adeptangel>	sorry, my bad: it doesn't compile and I don't understand the type error
14:53:07	<mauke>	:t logBase
14:53:07	<probie>	logBase requires both arguments to have the same type. Try `floor (logBase 5.0 (fromIntegral n))`
14:53:08	<lambdabot>	Floating a => a -> a -> a
14:53:16	<adeptangel>	ohhh yeah
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14:53:39	<adeptangel>	that's fixed it thanks
14:53:39	<mauke>	:t logBase 5.0 (1 :: Int)
14:53:40	<lambdabot>	error:
14:53:41	<lambdabot>	• No instance for (Floating Int) arising from a use of ‘logBase’
14:53:41	<lambdabot>	• In the expression: logBase 5.0 (1 :: Int)
14:53:49	<adeptangel>	that's the type error I didn't understand
14:54:04	<probie>	`n` is an `Int` because of the type of `kMax`, but `Int` isn't an instance of `Floating`, so you first need to convert it to something that is, like a `Double`
14:54:18	<mauke>	that means logBase is only defined for floating-point types, but Int is not one of them
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14:54:50	<adeptangel>	mauke: thanks, that makes sense
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14:55:22	<adeptangel>	it sounds like it's saying that there is a theoretical case where an instance of Floating Int could arise but that's impossible right?
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14:56:45	<mauke>	technically possible, but not in a useful way
14:56:52	<probie>	Well, it's not "impossible". You are free to define an instance of `Floating` for `Int`, it just wouldn't be a particularly sensible one
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14:57:41	<mauke>	among other things, you'd have to define pi :: Int, sin :: Int -> Int, sqrt :: Int -> Int
14:57:53	<user363627>	how do i install haskell-language-server for ghc version 2.0.0.1? doing "ghcup compile hls --version 2.0.0.1 --ghc 8.8.4 --cabal-update" fails with https://paste.mozilla.org/hPQkshLR
14:57:53	<adeptangel>	haha yeah
14:58:04	<user363627>	*for ghc version 8.8.4
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14:59:01	<mauke>	maybe that's too old a compiler?
14:59:31	<user363627>	mauke: i wondered that. but i'm not sure what to make of line 10 in output: "[ cabal ] ghc-8.4.1, ghc-8.2.2, ghc-8.2.1, ghc-9.2.3.20220620"
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15:00:12	<user363627>	base versions seem otherwise compatible
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15:03:30	<user363627>	okay must be some conflict with ghc version. older hls 1.8.0.0 seems to be compiling
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15:34:49	<user363627>	version 1.5.1.0 was the charm
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15:56:20	<adeptangel>	can anyone get this program to run? the online interpreter i'm using is timing out https://paste.tomsmeding.com/6rCfhmUk
16:00:07	<mauke>	not a program; nothing to run
16:00:18	<adeptangel>	mauke: sorry you are correct
16:00:40	<adeptangel>	here's an amendment https://play-haskell.tomsmeding.com/saved/0mrtTvS6
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16:01:19	<adeptangel>	it's working OK in the playground so I think it's the service I'm using that's crashing
16:01:29	<mauke>	heh
16:02:05	<jade[m]>	are you not able to use ghc on your desktop?
16:02:05	<mauke>	`main = do print $ zeros 15; return ()` is rather a complicated way to say `main = print $ zeros 15`
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16:02:49	<adeptangel>	jade[m]: actually I just ran ghcup on windows but I can't find where ghc has been installed to
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16:03:34	<mauke>	it's called "information hiding"
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16:27:53	<ski>	adeptangel : brackets around `fromIntegral n' are redundant. i'd rather also prefer seeing brackets instead of `$' there
16:28:22	<ski>	adeptangel : since `k' is non-negative (even positive), you could replace `^^' by `^'. then, in turn (since the numerator is now an integer), you could use `div' instead of `/' and `floor'&`fromIntegral'
16:28:30	<ski>	% :set -XMagicHash
16:28:30	<yahb2>	<no output>
16:28:40	<ski>	% let integerLogBase :: Integer -> Integer -> Int; integerLogBase b n = GHC.Types.I# (GHC.Integer.Logarithms.integerLogBase# b n)
16:28:40	<yahb2>	<no output>
16:28:46	<ski>	% integerLogBase 5 125
16:28:46	<yahb2>	3
16:28:49	<ski>	% integerLogBase 5 124
16:28:49	<yahb2>	2
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16:30:40	<ski>	.. although, repeated usage of `div', rather than using `^', seems preferrable
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16:48:20	<ski>	nick__ : "Not following you here. If you instantiate an object B then you have an object B, but it can also be an object A." -- that means that every `B' is an `A'. but you also wanted "no object A to be a B". therefore there are no `B' objects, because if there were any `B' object, it'd be an `A' object, but you've forbidden `A' objects to be `B' objects
16:52:01	<mniip>	it's relatively clear they want an asymmetric relation
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16:52:39	<mniip>	directed homotopy
16:52:40	<ski>	yes
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16:56:02	ski	. o O ( "2-Dimensional Directed Type Theory" by Dan Licata,Rob Harper in 2011 at <https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~rwh/papers/2dtt/mfps.pdf> )
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16:58:54	<ncf>	what does directed homotopy type theory have to do with subtyping?
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16:59:55	<ski>	dunno
17:00:47	<dolio>	You could use subtyping as the hom type of the universe, probably.
17:01:01	<dolio>	Both are antisymmetric, though. Not asymmetric.
17:02:34	<ncf>	hm i guess
17:03:15	←	L29Ah parts (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) ()
17:03:19	<ncf>	rip univalence
17:04:12	<ncf>	actually, does the hom type of the universe have to agree with the path type of the universe?
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17:04:41	<dolio>	I think so. But the path type of the universe doesn't have to correspond to equivalence.
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17:34:30	<horribleprogram>	wtf is this language
17:34:31	<horribleprogram>	jesus christ
17:34:53	<APic>	Hail Eris!
17:35:07	<horribleprogram>	does the imported Prelude module have a name for the constant for e
17:35:31	<horribleprogram>	math.e for ex in Python
17:35:36	<EvanR>	> exp 1
17:35:38	<lambdabot>	2.718281828459045
17:36:02	<horribleprogram>	std::numbers::e in C++20
17:36:04	<EvanR>	> exp 1 :: CReal
17:36:05	<lambdabot>	2.7182818284590452353602874713526624977572
17:36:14	<horribleprogram>	kk wtf did u just do in the 2nd one
17:36:19	<EvanR>	:t exp
17:36:21	<lambdabot>	Floating a => a -> a
17:36:33	<jade[m]>	specified the type of the number explicitly
17:36:37	<horribleprogram>	ahh
17:36:39	<EvanR>	e depends on the type
17:36:55	<EvanR>	> exp 1 :: Float
17:36:57	<horribleprogram>	u mean the return type of exp can be specified?
17:36:57	<lambdabot>	2.7182817
17:37:01	<horribleprogram>	exp 1 :: Int
17:37:08	<horribleprogram>	> exp 1 :: Int
17:37:09	<lambdabot>	error:
17:37:09	<lambdabot>	• No instance for (Floating Int) arising from a use of ‘exp’
17:37:09	<lambdabot>	• In the expression: exp 1 :: Int
17:37:14	<EvanR>	Int isn't an instance of Floating ^
17:37:18	<horribleprogram>	ahh kk
17:37:18	<jade[m]>	horribleprogram: yes, it's polymorphic for floatings
17:37:30	<EvanR>	> exp 1 :: Complex Double
17:37:31	<lambdabot>	2.718281828459045 :+ 0.0
17:37:34	<mauke>	> e
17:37:36	<lambdabot>	e
17:37:44	<horribleprogram>	there is no `e`
17:37:45	<EvanR>	> exp (0 :+ 1) :: Complex Double
17:37:47	<lambdabot>	0.5403023058681398 :+ 0.8414709848078965
17:37:58	<EvanR>	oops forgot the pi
17:38:03	<horribleprogram>	so e = exp 1
17:38:06	<horribleprogram>	if you actually want it
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17:38:10	<EvanR>	yes
17:38:12	<horribleprogram>	cool ty
17:38:20	<mauke>	exp x = e^x
17:38:24	<jade[m]>	but you usually use the exponential function
17:38:30	<horribleprogram>	don't tell me what I usually do
17:38:42	<EvanR>	the only use for e is doing e^_ or natural log
17:38:47	<horribleprogram>	says u
17:38:53	<horribleprogram>	:P
17:39:03	<APic>	horribleprogram: So for what do You need it?
17:39:06	<jade[m]>	horribleprogram: no worries ^^
17:39:12	<horribleprogram>	lol just playing
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17:39:23	<APic>	So You do not really need it at all ;=P
17:39:34	<horribleprogram>	I do
17:39:35	<EvanR>	let e = exp 1 in _
17:40:00	<horribleprogram>	> cos pi/2
17:40:02	<lambdabot>	-0.5
17:40:07	<EvanR>	> cos (pi/2)
17:40:09	<lambdabot>	6.123233995736766e-17
17:40:11	<horribleprogram>	ahh kk
17:40:18	<EvanR>	> cos (pi/2) :: CReal
17:40:20	<lambdabot>	0.0
17:40:24	<horribleprogram>	so the "function" call has higher precedence
17:40:24	<EvanR>	\o/
17:40:30	<EvanR>	yes
17:40:32	<horribleprogram>	than what
17:40:34	<horribleprogram>	everything?
17:40:47	<ski>	basically
17:40:49	<EvanR>	basically. Update syntax is higher?
17:40:50	<jade[m]>	yes, here specifically higher than /
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17:41:07	<horribleprogram>	okay that's cool I think
17:41:09	<mauke>	record update syntax > function application > infix operators
17:41:21	<horribleprogram>	what's record update
17:41:24	<horribleprogram>	. ?
17:41:37	<mauke>	expr { field = value }
17:41:44	<horribleprogram>	what's that
17:41:50	<horribleprogram>	use it in an example
17:41:54	<EvanR>	myEmployee { name = reverse (name myEmployee) }
17:42:02	<horribleprogram>	that's an expression?
17:42:05	<EvanR>	yeah
17:42:08	<horribleprogram>	ahh cool
17:42:29	<ski>	> (Node {rootLabel = 0,subForest = []}) {rootLabel = 1}
17:42:31	<lambdabot>	Node {rootLabel = 1, subForest = []}
17:42:31	<horribleprogram>	tysm guys :)
17:42:52	<ski>	> Node {rootLabel = 0,subForest = []} {rootLabel = 1} -- guess this works, too
17:42:53	<lambdabot>	Node {rootLabel = 1, subForest = []}
17:43:08	<EvanR>	wait
17:43:17	<EvanR>	now update syntax isn't higher
17:43:26	<ski>	than ?
17:43:35	<EvanR>	Node 0 [] ?
17:43:51	<ski>	> Node 0 [] {rootLabel = 1}
17:43:53	<lambdabot>	error:
17:43:53	<lambdabot>	• Constructor ‘[]’ does not have field ‘rootLabel’
17:43:53	<lambdabot>	• In the second argument of ‘Node’, namely ‘[] {rootLabel = 1}’
17:43:56	<ski>	> (Node 0 []) {rootLabel = 1}
17:43:57	<lambdabot>	Node {rootLabel = 1, subForest = []}
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17:44:05	<EvanR>	record construction is even higher, then
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17:44:18	<ski>	or same, by left-associative ..
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17:44:35	<ski>	> Node {rootLabel = 0,subForest = []} {rootLabel = 1} {rootLabel = 2}
17:44:37	<lambdabot>	Node {rootLabel = 2, subForest = []}
17:45:35	<dolio>	I never thought of doing that.
17:46:12	<ncf>	is there any use for that
17:46:49	<EvanR>	> Node {} {rootLabel = 1} {subForest = []}
17:46:51	<lambdabot>	Node {rootLabel = 1, subForest = []}
17:47:13	<EvanR>	in case your comma key is broken
17:47:36	<ski>	perhaps some people could prefer breaking that over multiple lines
17:47:37	<jade[m]>	or if you like curly brackets very much
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17:48:15	<ski>	(the `Show' instance also ought not generate a space after the comma, imho ..)
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17:49:08	<ski>	.. quite often, if i define a data type using record syntax, i hand-write the `Show' instance to not use record syntax
17:49:25	<ncf>	weird
17:49:33	<EvanR>	> read (show (Node 0 [])) :: Tree Int
17:49:35	<lambdabot>	Node {rootLabel = 0, subForest = []}
17:49:56	<ski>	much harder to read with all the labels taking up space, when outputting some largish example
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17:53:22	<ski>	hm, i guess the generated `Read' instance insist on the fields coming in the specified order
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17:53:44	<horribleprogram>	is github http site down for y'all
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17:54:12	<bontaq>	yep
17:54:17	<EvanR>	> read "Node {subForest = [], rootLabel = 0}" :: Tree Int
17:54:19	<lambdabot>	*Exception: Prelude.read: no parse
17:54:24	<EvanR>	> read "Node 0 []" :: Tree Int
17:54:26	<lambdabot>	*Exception: Prelude.read: no parse
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17:54:31	<bontaq>	that's a wrap for programming folks, no more github
17:54:40	ski	nods to EvanR
17:54:43	<EvanR>	switching to mercurial
17:55:25	<ski>	> (reads :: ReadS (Tree Int)) "((((Node {rootLabel = (((0))),subForest = (([]))}))))"
17:55:26	<lambdabot>	[(Node {rootLabel = 0, subForest = []},"")]
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19:07:24	<zzz>	is there a way to auto update a cabal file with the output of `cabal gen-bounds`?
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19:22:06	<zzz>	and which versioning system does hackage use?
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19:25:24	<ncf>	https://pvp.haskell.org/
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19:27:06	<zzz>	ncf: ty
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20:36:44	<byorgey>	I'm getting sick of Wordpress and want to switch to a different blogging platform. Any good recommendations? I'm comfortable with hakyll but I also don't want to build Yet Another Blog Generator from scratch.
20:38:42	<Clint>	what's missing from hakyll?
20:41:01	<jade[m]>	heh im building something like that right now
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20:50:41	<jean-paul[m]>	https://github.com/haskell-servant/servant/blob/v0.19/servant-foreign/servant-foreign.cabal is from the "v0.19" tag (presumably a release tag), the version in the cabal file is 0.15.4, the servant dependency is `>=0.18 && <0.19`, the hackage metadata for 0.15.4 says the servant dependency is `>=0.18 && <0.20`. aaaaaaaaargh?
20:50:52	<jean-paul[m]>	is going insane a necessary pre-req for computing a compatible package set?
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20:54:52	<geekosaur>	jean-paul[m], that usually means someone requested that a hackage trustee make a metadata revision
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20:57:12	<jean-paul[m]>	is it normal for the source tarball from hackage to include different metadata than hackage renders on the ui?
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20:57:30	<int-e>	https://hackage.haskell.org/package/servant-foreign-0.15.4/revisions/ ...or one of the package maintainers
20:57:35	<jean-paul[m]>	the source tarball hackage serves agrees with the upstream repo and disagrees with metadata in the hackage ui :/
20:57:54	<int-e>	(-r1 is where that particular dependency was bumped)
20:57:55	<geekosaur>	yes
20:58:49	<geekosaur>	hackage is read only; metadata updates do not change tarballs, they are appended to the index
20:59:20	<jean-paul[m]>	I don't see how this is useful. Doesn't it mean picking packages from hackage metadata will lead you to getting source that doesn't actually satisfy your version requirements and gives you a build failure?
20:59:28	<int-e>	jean-paul[m]: But if you look at the files in `cabal unpack <package>` you'll find that `cabal` replaces the .cabal file, unless you specify --pristine
20:59:45	<geekosaur>	it means you can set your index state to an earlier time and actually get that earlier time
21:00:32	<jean-paul[m]>	Hm
21:00:38	<int-e>	it's a mixed blessing
21:00:57	<jean-paul[m]>	Maybe the nix Haskell tooling doesn't have this feature
21:01:21	<int-e>	pro: you can bump dependencies without polluting hackage with even more releases (and it allows hackage trustees to bypass maintainers to a small extent)
21:01:49	<int-e>	but it makes it hard to get an authorative source code for a particular version of a package
21:02:25	<int-e>	Revisions also sometimes break previously working builds, which is annoying.
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21:44:41	<nyc>	What do I do when I need to patch a dependency in a package built with cabal?
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21:48:29	<geekosaur>	vendor it using a cabal.project file?
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21:55:00	<nyc>	geekosaur: I'm not sure what that means.
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21:55:24	<geekosaur>	I'm not really sure what you mean
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21:56:08	<nyc>	A code change in the codebase I'm working on needs a change in a package it depends on.
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21:57:51	<geekosaur>	https://github.com/geekosaur/xmonad.hs/blob/skkukuk/cabal.project is how I do xmonad development; my config is cabalized and I vendor the dependencies I work on/with. I may have different patches going in different branches
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21:58:44	<nyc>	geekosaur: What does vendoring the dependencies mean?
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21:59:13	<geekosaur>	… I thought that was standard terminology; is it not?
22:00:31	<j4cc3b>	can haskell mode for emacs suggest type annotations for functions?
22:00:41	<nyc>	geekosaur: How does one vendor dependencies?
22:00:45	<hpc>	nyc: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/26217488/what-is-vendoring#39643873 (you might want to follow the links throughout that thread too)
22:00:46	<geekosaur>	there is no way to tell either cabal or stack "build this dependency but apply a patch to it first"; you have to unpack it and apply the patch yourself, then supply it via stack's extra-deps or cabal's packages
22:01:42	<hpc>	nyc: have you already ruled out getting the patch applied upstream?
22:02:26	<EvanR>	vendor = the poor soul who has modified a library and is using a rogue version in their work?
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22:03:08	<EvanR>	the name of a directory that this poor soul sees in their project now
22:03:12	<nyc>	hpc: I haven't even gotten a chance to build test any patches.
22:03:20	<hpc>	ah
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22:18:15	<nyc>	transformers is somehow barfing on 9.6.1 without any apparent checks restricting ghc versions.
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22:21:58	<monochrom>	transformers comes with GHC and there is no reason to obtain one more copy from hackage, much less obtain one more copy from hackage and then patch it.
22:23:01	<monochrom>	If it is some other package that is outdated and asks for a super-old version of transformers, then just try --allow-newer
22:27:30	<geekosaur>	was wondering about that. I am using ghc 9.6.2 and transformers-0.6.1.0 is selected according to plan.json
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22:28:41	<geekosaur>	…with no package hash so it came with ghc, yeh
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22:38:03	<nyc>	Have Show instances changed in ghc base?
22:39:29	<monochrom>	I haven't heard of any change.
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22:45:38	<nyc>	The streaming lib is tricky.
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All times are in UTC on 2023-06-29.