Logs on 2023-07-05 (liberachat/#haskell)

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04:58:12	<smogeb>	Hello! How to build an old Haskell code with build-depends: base ==4.6., QuickCheck ==2.6., vector-space ==0.8., semigroups ==0.9., HCodecs ==0.2., containers ==0.5., process ==1.1., unix ==2.6., csound-catalog ==0.5.* ??
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04:59:55	<monochrom>	Short term: Tell cabal "--allow-newer". Long term: Widen those constraints already.
05:00:58	<smogeb>	Is there a tool that "updates" the code?
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07:26:35	<hackyhacker>	should you commit dist-newstyle from cabal into git?
07:26:46	<hackyhacker>	or can another user just make that by running cabal init
07:26:50	<hackyhacker>	or cabal run or whatever
07:26:58	<Axman6>	yeah don't commit that
07:27:08	<dminuoso_>	hackyhacker: No.
07:27:58	<dminuoso_>	hackyhacker: the dist-newstyle contains all the build level artifacts. If you try and ship it, you likely will encounter various issues.
07:28:11	<dminuoso_>	Well not all the build level artifacts, some of them.
07:29:21	<dminuoso_>	Sadly dist-newstyle appears not really documented.
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12:33:58	<hackyhacker>	https://kergro.art/blog/pegs-hs.html
12:34:12	<hackyhacker>	anyone commentary on my haskell code?
12:34:19	<hackyhacker>	first time I've written something in haskell that's over 5 lines
12:35:08	<merijn>	hackyhacker: Looks mostly reasonable. Personally not a fan of the if/then/else (especially with the current formatting)
12:35:24	<merijn>	hackyhacker: So I'd probably rewrite those if/then/else into guards
12:35:41	<hackyhacker>	ah yea good call
12:36:24	<merijn>	I would also split up (into 1 or 2 where bindings) the fromStrings
12:36:41	<merijn>	Also, repeated application of $ is generally considered worse than using .
12:37:45	<merijn>	"let nextBoard = move from to board; case nextBoard of
12:37:58	<merijn>	can simply be "case move from to board of"
12:37:58	<Unicorn_Princess>	hackyhacker, is positionInBoard correct? says only indices x in the "1 < x <= size" range are in board. but that's size-1 number of valid indices..
12:38:21	<hackyhacker>	oh yea that was a bug I forgot to publish it on the page
12:38:27	<hackyhacker>	I fixed it in my actual project
12:39:12	<merijn>	As a style note, I'm not a big fan of aligning where blocks after where. I tend to prefer a linebreak so bindings don't march so far right
12:40:04	<merijn>	So the first, rather than the second: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/rIdSlpxK
12:40:37	<hackyhacker>	oh ok
12:40:48	<Unicorn_Princess>	speaking of style i've decided to go snake_case even in haskell. capitalization matters too often, making camelCase too awkward
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12:42:54	<Unicorn_Princess>	hackyhacker, using floating-point distance then comparing it with strict equality rubs me the wrong way
12:43:08	<Unicorn_Princess>	not really a style/haskell thing, but...
12:43:24	<hackyhacker>	how else?
12:43:33	<hackyhacker>	do == 2.0?
12:43:48	<Unicorn_Princess>	that's semantically identical to what you have now
12:44:09	<Unicorn_Princess>	i'm sure there's an elegant test, but as first aid, you can use the square of the distance directly
12:44:23	<Unicorn_Princess>	leave it an integer, and check that it's 4 instead of 2
12:44:30	<hackyhacker>	Oh that's a cool solution yeah
12:44:58	<hackyhacker>	are you a fan of N J Wildberger?
12:44:59	<hackyhacker>	haha
12:45:24	<Unicorn_Princess>	anyway yeah i don't trust floating point enough to believe the sqrt would end up exactly 2 in all the cases you'd want it to
12:45:32	<Unicorn_Princess>	dunno who this wildberger is tho
12:46:51	<Unicorn_Princess>	i usually think of floats as a bit fuzzy, even for the simplest calculations. figure they're within some (hopefully small) epsilon of the correct value, but no guarantee they're actually correct
12:47:14	<Unicorn_Princess>	in _some_ cases they are correct, and in other cases epsilon isn't small, but as a first measure, this approach works out
12:47:25	<hackyhacker>	N J Wildberger is a mathematician that's a bit controversial
12:47:44	<hackyhacker>	and he wrote a whole book about geometry where the basic unit is the square of the distance or something
12:47:49	<hackyhacker>	I don't really know what it's all about
12:49:06	<hackyhacker>	Unicorn_Princess you said snake case is preferred
12:49:12	<hackyhacker>	yet the standard library also uses camel case
12:49:13	<Unicorn_Princess>	the square distance trick is popular in any kinda simulation/geometry code, is where i got it from
12:49:19	<Unicorn_Princess>	no no, I prefer snake_case
12:49:30	<hackyhacker>	Ohh ok Yeah I was renaming everything >:(
12:49:30	<Unicorn_Princess>	alas haskell has settled on camelCase
12:49:38	<merijn>	hackyhacker: camel case is definitely the most widely used in general
12:49:46	<hackyhacker>	Unicorn_Princess bad advice
12:50:57	<Unicorn_Princess>	anyway usually the square of distance is used, even if a float, to avoid the expensive sqrt calculation. which you don't care about for peg solitaire
12:51:50	<geekosaur>	BecauseJammingEverythingTogetherIsJustSoEasyToReadEspeciallyWhenItsLong
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12:56:05	<hackyhacker>	ok I updated it
12:56:05	<hackyhacker>	https://kergro.art/blog/pegs-hs.html
12:56:52	<hackyhacker>	oh wait I forgot to replace if else by cases
12:56:54	<Unicorn_Princess>	hackyhacker, the fromString :: String -> Board might be cleaner with use of lines :: String -> [String]
12:57:10	<merijn>	hackyhacker: oh, I just realised a bit less superficial improvement
12:57:26	<Unicorn_Princess>	i think your current version fails if last row doesn't end with newline
12:57:34	<merijn>	You have moveLegal returning a boolean and ove returning a maybe board
12:58:02	<merijn>	I would consider instead just having moveLegal return "Maybe Move" and then 'fmap' the board manipulation over that
12:58:20	<merijn>	Which eliminates the awkward if/then in move and removes the "boolean blindness"
12:58:20	<hackyhacker>	o-o
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12:59:22	<hackyhacker>	Unicorn_Princess I tested a file that doesn't end in a newline and it works still
12:59:28	<Unicorn_Princess>	hm
12:59:35	<hackyhacker>	the newline characters just get filtered out so I don't see why it wouldn't work
13:00:02	<Unicorn_Princess>	i thought cuz of rows = count '\n' s
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13:00:17	<hackyhacker>	oh yeah no you are right
13:00:29	<hackyhacker>	my text editor adds an empty line at the end by default
13:01:01	<Unicorn_Princess>	i think we have C #includes to thank for that
13:01:24	<Unicorn_Princess>	at least it's not defensive semicolons...
13:01:50	<hackyhacker>	Isn't that a product of just command line tools in general
13:01:58	<Unicorn_Princess>	could be
13:02:00	<hackyhacker>	like if you can something without a newline at the end it messes up your prompt
13:02:02	<hackyhacker>	cat*
13:04:20	<Axman6>	hackyhacker: not sure if anyone's mentioned it, but that readsPrec implementation looks suspect to me - should be readsPrec _ ('.':r) = [(Empty, r)] etc IIRC
13:06:59	<hackyhacker>	Axman6 wouldn't that be to read a string as a list of squares?
13:07:06	<hackyhacker>	I don't really understand that readsPrec thing to be honest
13:07:47	<merijn>	hackyhacker: it's fine, I've been doing haskell for, uh, 16 years and I still don't really grok readsPrec :p
13:08:16	<hackyhacker>	merijn: is it related to parser combinators?
13:08:38	<geekosaur>	it's a very strange parser combinator
13:08:47	<merijn>	That, yeah
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13:09:34	<hackyhacker>	yeah I was thinking of maybe using parsec but it seemed silly to just read a character
13:10:09	<hackyhacker>	merijn: if you match a boolean is it still preferred to use guards or is an if then else fine in that case
13:10:11	<geekosaur>	unlike most parsers, it produces a list of (value,remainder) and it's up to the caller to determine which result is correct
13:10:24	<merijn>	hackyhacker: in general if/then/else is pretty rare in haskell
13:10:33	<merijn>	People tend to prefer guards
13:10:46	<geekosaur>	which means it can parse ambiguous values at the price that the user has to deal with the ambiguity
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13:11:01	<hackyhacker>	interesting...
13:11:12	<hackyhacker>	merijn: ok I'll change them all to guards
13:12:23	<merijn>	hackyhacker: mostly you see if/then/else in code from beginners coming from different languages and (rarely) inside do blocks for cases where you can't use guards because you depend on the result of, for example, IO
13:14:12	<merijn>	hackyhacker: Just did a quick check and I have 11 if/else in about 25k LOC :p
13:14:34	<hackyhacker>	merijn: but so it should be using match of statements then right?
13:14:42	<hackyhacker>	euhm I mean case of
13:15:04	<merijn>	hackyhacker: you can use case-of, but most of your examples can be moved into the guards of the function
13:16:09	<merijn>	hackyhacker: i.e.: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/LxLQ5Nqt
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13:16:42	<merijn>	same for squareBetween
13:21:40	<hackyhacker>	ohh ok thanks
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13:28:35	<hackyhacker>	https://kergro.art/blog/pegs-hs.html
13:28:42	<hackyhacker>	but those in the do blocks I can't replace that way right?
13:31:48	<merijn>	hackyhacker: correct, you could maybe move them into where blocks, but that's the one case where I would keep the if/then/else, yeah
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13:35:57	<_d0t>	ohaaai! Is there a way to add a finaliser function to a Haskell thread?
13:36:20	<merijn>	_d0t: forkFinally? :)
13:36:34	<_d0t>	merijn: that, except I need it from inside of the thread
13:36:42	<_d0t>	it's not my code that calls forkIO here
13:37:11	<merijn>	_d0t: forkFinally runs in the thread, though
13:37:19	<merijn>	oh
13:37:36	<merijn>	_d0t: I mean, just make it the last thing in the IO action that gets run?
13:37:37	<_d0t>	for context. I'm experimenting with Thread Local Storage here and I need a way to cleamup stuff after thread is finished.
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13:37:58	<_d0t>	merijn: no can do :( i wanna be able to use this in WAI/Servant
13:38:09	<merijn>	_d0t: ah, rip
13:38:29	<merijn>	_d0t: I think that'd require some messing with the RTS to implement support for that
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13:38:45	<_d0t>	somehow i feel it is already there, just not exposed
13:38:59	<merijn>	_d0t: also, multiple haskell threads can be running on the same OS thread, so they'd share the same TLS
13:39:19	<_d0t>	merijn: no no, i'm talking about haskell's TLS. Basically, Map ThreadId a
13:40:04	<merijn>	_d0t: FYI, probably wanna use Weak ThreadId's, because threads aren't GCed while there are ThreadId's referencing them
13:40:05	<Axman6>	is there, like, any chance at all that thread local storage would work with GHC's runtime?
13:40:24	<Axman6>	right, ok, that's quite different
13:40:27	<merijn>	Axman6: Sure? Not without work, but I don't think it'd be that hard
13:40:36	<_d0t>	merijn: this is one problem. Another one is just to prevent a memory leak from all those values from dead threads.
13:40:58	<merijn>	but no, I don't think there currently is a finaliser in the RTS
13:41:43	<_d0t>	touche :(
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13:42:23	<merijn>	_d0t: Be the change you wanna see in the world :D
13:43:09	<_d0t>	merijn: i have like four or five branches in my personal GHC tree with unfinished features right now
13:43:19	<merijn>	_d0t: :D
13:43:57	<_d0t>	including porting GHC to a bare VM environment, similar to what halvm was
13:45:03	<_d0t>	oh btw, maybe you guys know what's wrong with this
13:45:05	<_d0t>	https://discourse.haskell.org/t/package-version-mismatch-during-hadrian-build/6243/4
13:45:20	<_d0t>	seems like GHC cross-compiling is borked in a way
13:46:41	<Axman6>	I don't think GHC cross-compiling has ever worked
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13:47:28	<_d0t>	it mostly does, except that ghc-pkg thing
13:48:02	<_d0t>	seems that hadrian introduction broke things
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13:49:47	<Axman6>	I've been using it for about 15 years and never once heard of anyong having it work
13:49:53	<Axman6>	anyone*
13:50:05	<_d0t>	halvm worked shrug
13:50:19	<Axman6>	halvm wasn't in ghc proper though
13:50:31	<_d0t>	well, my bad, i mean building a cross-compiler, not cross-compiling GHC itself
13:50:40	<Axman6>	it was a separate project, like ghcjs, etc
13:50:57	<_d0t>	Axman6: it was, but there weren't any real changes to the build code. Other than adding targets and a few minor things.
13:52:08	<_d0t>	but again, this was pre-hadrian
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13:56:28	<_d0t>	anyhow, my attitude to working on GHC constantly jumps between WE BALL and WE ARE SOOO BACK on this graph https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FzllBASWwAEayoE.png
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13:57:30	<_d0t>	afk lunch
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14:20:39	<hackyhacker>	What would you guys recommend for a simple rest server in Haskell?
14:20:56	<hackyhacker>	I was thinking of trying this library https://hackage.haskell.org/package/rest-wai
14:21:43	<Axman6>	if it was me, I'd use servant. scotty is the usual recommendation for beginners though
14:23:14	<hackyhacker>	oh scotty looks very readable
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14:53:17	<_d0t>	merijn: Weak ThreadId's seem barely usable because Weak doesn't have an Eq instance. And cannot possibly have one.
14:55:26	<_d0t>	StableName seems like what I need here instead of Weak
14:59:14	<[exa]>	hackyhacker: +1 for scotty
14:59:40	<[exa]>	hackyhacker: if you need a nice database for it, selda glues pretty well
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15:07:21	<hackyhacker>	[exa]: is selda's website down?
15:07:27	<hackyhacker>	they link to selda.link but it doesn't load for me
15:08:17	<hackyhacker>	to https://selda.link
15:08:52	<[exa]>	mhm yeah seems so
15:09:05	mauke	goes to https://samus.link/ instead
15:11:30	<hackyhacker>	hahaha wtf is that
15:11:34	<hackyhacker>	seems like the nerdiest thing ever
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15:12:54	<Hecate>	incredible
15:13:27	<hackyhacker>	I can't even fathom how to begin making that
15:15:11	<mauke>	they got lucky because apparently Zelda 3 and Super Metroid use almost entirely different memory addresses
15:15:41	<mauke>	maybe nintendo had plans for publishing both games on the same cartridge?
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15:23:31	<ski>	hackyhacker : ` :: IO String' is redundant; brackets around `Eq',`fst small',`snd small',`snd small + 1',`snd from',`snd to',`board ! ...',`squareBetween from to',`Int' are redundant; `IO()' should be `IO ()'; `((/=) '\n')' could be `('\n' /=)'; all `$'s are ugly imho (can be replaced by brackets, perhaps composition, `(fromList rows cols . map (read . (: [])) . filter ('\n' /=)) s',`(setElem Peg to .
15:23:37	<ski>	setElem Empty middle . setElem Empty from)'); ..
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15:23:49	<ski>	..; `putStrLn (show x)' is `print x'; `input > 0 && input <= limit' is `inRange (1,limit) input' (import `Data.Ix'); some `x's should be `y's in `positionInBoard'; `x <= rows && x >= 1' is `inRange (1,rows) x'; `inRange (1,rows) x && inRange (1,cols) y' is `inRange ((1,1),(rows,cols)) (x,y)'; avoid `fst'&'`snd' (use pattern-matching, `(xs,ys) = min from to',`moveLegal from@(xf,yf) to@(xt,yt) board = ...'); ..
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15:24:06	<ski>	..; `let nextBoard = move from to board' followed by `case nextBoard of ...' could be `case move from to board of ...'; you could use `putStr' & `hFlush stdout' in place of `putStrLn' if you want prompt on same line as input; `readLn' will abort program (throw I/O exception) if parse fails; `Collumn' should be `Column'; `positionInBoard' is redundant in `moveLegal' since `limitReadInt' already checks bounds;
15:24:12	<ski>	..
15:24:19	<ski>	..; `readsPrec' is incorrect (per what Axman6 said); both `Show' and `Read' are misuses of those type classes, they're meant for (compositionally) generating&parsing Haskell representations of values, in a way that can be copied back into source (given an appropriate module environment) -- would suggest to define separate functions instead (did you define `Data.Matrix' ?); ..
15:24:24	<ski>	..; `fromString' could still be done with `ReadS' if you want to, but then shouldn't use `map' like that
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15:41:25	<hackyhacker>	Data.Matrix is the matrix package from hackage
15:41:34	<hackyhacker>	ski: thank you for your review
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15:52:11	<ski>	ok, looks like `instance Show a => Show (Matrix a)' is also bad
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15:53:02	ski	would roll their own pretty-printer
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16:01:01	<delYsid>	Is there a way to have cabal/stack install a config file to $XDG_CONFIG_HOME or similar upon program install?
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16:03:38	<geekosaur>	no more than there is for OS package managers
16:04:56	<geekosaur>	the way most programs handle this is to create it if it doesn't exist
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16:15:45	<delYsid>	Hmm, I guess the message is, stack is just for building, packaging your app is a task for something else...
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16:16:22	<delYsid>	I also just realized that I trashed my ~/.local/bin/pandoc binary by rm'ing ~/.stack, which is kind of unexpected and weird. I was hoping for installed binaries to be independent from ~/.stack.
16:16:48	<geekosaur>	that doesn't explain why OS package managers also don't modify user dirs when installing
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16:17:25	<benjaminbellick>	@type map
16:17:26	<lambdabot>	(a -> b) -> [a] -> [b]
16:17:37	<geekosaur>	the correct takeaways are (a) it's bad UX to misbehave without your config file (b) it's good UX to create one on first run and if necessary point the user to it (although modern (c) is better UX is to provide a config dialog)
16:18:01	<benjaminbellick>	@free (a -> b) -> F a -> F b
16:18:01	<lambdabot>	Try `free <ident>` or `free <ident> :: <type>`
16:18:51	<geekosaur>	as for the .stack thing, (a) cabal does the same (b) but has a `--install-method` option (I don't know if stack does)
16:19:12	<delYsid>	geekosaur: True. However, there isn't really a "package manager" for ~/.local. And, many classical programs will install config files to $PREFIX/etc upon (make) install.
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16:20:37	<geekosaur>	but $PREFIX is not usually the user's dir; it's /usr or /usr/local
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16:20:59	<delYsid>	And installing on first run will need bundling of the data file inside of the executable, for no particularily good reason.
16:22:33	<delYsid>	geekosaur: Yes, but setting --prefix=$HOME/.local works in many cases just fine. In any case, there isn't what I want, and that is also a good answer, thanks.
16:24:28	<geekosaur[c]>	And you can ship data files with your program, just not for automatic installation in a user directory
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16:28:06	<geekosaur[c]>	They don't install under `$XDG_CONFIG_HOME` but under.stack or .cabal
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16:33:02	<ski>	@free foo :: (a -> b) -> F a -> F b -- benjaminbellick
16:33:03	<lambdabot>	g . h = k . f => $map_F g . foo h = foo k . $map_F f
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17:12:18	<Nosrep>	is ghc core output's variable names deterministic?
17:12:30	<Nosrep>	they seem to change all the time
17:12:35	<sm>	delYsid: I think a more robust way is to build config file setup into your program
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17:33:37	<geekosaur>	Nosrep, probably best asked in #ghc but I think you may need a special option to get that (and nix uses it to get mostly deterministic builds iirc)
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20:38:09	<EvanR>	seq ⊥ b = ⊥
20:38:14	<EvanR>	seq a b = b if a ≠ ⊥
20:38:38	<EvanR>	I wonder if there's a clearer way to say the same thing
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20:41:45	<monochrom>	You can describe lazy evaluation. Some people find that clearer.
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20:44:19	<EvanR>	it's trying to "case split" on whether a is or isn't bottom, which are the only two possibilities ever! But it's written awkwardly
20:45:10	<EvanR>	we just don't have a notation for "not bottom"
20:46:08	<monochrom>	You can (should, must) use math notation. There is a math notation for cases.
20:46:27	<EvanR>	OR true b = true
20:46:37	<EvanR>	OR a b = b if a is not true
20:46:45	<monochrom>	Although, I would pretty like to declare Haskell guard syntax to be math notation, too.
20:47:09	<EvanR>	the OR function is easily given using a truth table instead
20:47:28	<monochrom>	Ah, you can do table for seq too.
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20:49:38	<EvanR>	what would the table look like
20:51:36	<monochrom>	Oh darn, I was wrong, not easy.
20:52:02	<monochrom>	Yeah guard or math case notation, both featuring an "otherwise" clause.
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20:52:47	<EvanR>	i got this far lol https://i.imgur.com/G229PrG.png
20:53:35	<EvanR>	ok otherwise
20:53:52	<monochrom>	Yeah I realized I don't know what to write for the ? slot.
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20:55:03	<EvanR>	seq a b = { ⊥ if a = ⊥
20:55:23	<[Leary]>	You could write `seq a b = if a↓ then b else ⊥` where down-arrow is read "converges".
20:55:31	<EvanR>	{ b otherwise
20:56:50	<monochrom>	Now we get to the nuance of whether (⊥, ⊥) ↓ is true or false.
20:57:01	<EvanR>	converges...
20:57:38	<monochrom>	However, both the Haskell Report and common denotational semantics talk about just whether a=⊥ or not.
20:58:09	<EvanR>	> seq (undefined, undefined) "ok"
20:58:10	<lambdabot>	"ok"
20:58:16	<monochrom>	IMO the word "converge" is better reserved for another purpose.
20:59:38	<monochrom>	To a large extent, the opposite word "diverge" is only defined with an operational semantics in mind.
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21:01:01	<EvanR>	the first equation for seq is pretty great
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21:02:57	<EvanR>	a rubyist may find appealing: seq a b = b unless a=⊥
21:07:18	<monochrom>	They got that from Perl.
21:07:26	×	hipnozis quits (~hipnozis@92-249-150-162.static.digikabel.hu) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
21:07:34	<monochrom>	"stmt if cond" and "stmt unless cond".
21:07:56	×	ystael quits (~ystael@user/ystael) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
21:08:10	<monochrom>	When delusional programmers want English in programming languages.
21:08:21	×	merijn quits (~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
21:08:22	<dolio>	But did Perl get it from Miranda?
21:08:31	<monochrom>	Ah I don't know.
21:09:05	<monochrom>	"A potential clergyman and sysadmin designed a programming language. This is what happened."
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21:09:25	<dolio>	It's unlikely.
21:09:46	<monochrom>	I never got around to look at Miranda.
21:09:49	<dolio>	I don't think Miranda has unless. Just if.
21:10:06	<dolio>	max2 a b = a, if a > b
21:10:16	<dolio>	= b, otherwise
21:10:40	<monochrom>	OK then that's math case notation. Perl didn't draw from that.
21:11:03	<geekosaur>	I always thought that was what the BASIC-PLUS reference in the original perl manual was about
21:11:03	<dolio>	Yeah, it's guards that look more like math.
21:11:19	<EvanR>	flowchart. a=⊥? --- yes ---> seq a b = ⊥
21:11:24	<EvanR>	--- no ---> seq a b = b
21:11:26	<monochrom>	Tony Hoare came up with "expr-t <\| cond \|> expr-e" to mean our "if cond then expr-t else expr-e"
21:12:06	<monochrom>	In fact he used triangles for the <\| and \|>
21:14:40	<EvanR>	I want that guard syntax
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21:30:18	<EvanR>	what's up with #haskell and the matrix bridge
21:31:13	<monochrom>	Strong wind causes resonance in the bridge and it is swinging like crazy. >:D
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21:31:41	<EvanR>	I hate it when that happens
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21:34:16	<geekosaur>	I'm not seeing bridge issues
21:34:29	<geekosaur>	admittedly I'm not using it in here any more
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21:39:00	<hellwolf>	gotta setup irc in emacs again.
21:39:17	<hellwolf>	it seems the bridges have been collapsing well ahead of the time.
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21:40:35	<hellwolf>	from r/haskell vs. discourse to twitter vs. mastodon. now this...
21:41:06	<[Leary]>	> let a <\| b = guard b $> a; infix 2 <\|; (\|>) = flip fromMaybe; infix 1 \|> in ("green" <\| True \|> "blue", "green" <\| False \|> "blue")
21:41:07	<lambdabot>	("green","blue")
21:43:35	<ncf>	_◂_▸_ = flip if_then_else_
21:44:05	<monochrom>	Haha now I know what to pose on my parsing assignment!
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21:52:59	<mauke>	oh no, this is python all over again
21:53:18	<monochrom>	Which one? "stmt if cond"?
21:53:30	<mauke>	expr1 if cond else expr2
21:53:37	<monochrom>	Oh heh
21:55:14	<monochrom>	I am biased so I love Tony Hoare so I like his "_ <\| _ \|> _" so I am OK with the small change to "_ if _ else _".
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21:55:39	<monochrom>	It is not everyday that we get to say "finally Python got something right" :)
21:55:54	<monochrom>	Along with, you know, "lambda x : expr"
21:56:02	<mauke>	ew
21:57:14	<monochrom>	But I wonder if Python goes one step further and declare that the part "if cond else" acts as an infix right-associative operator.
21:57:27	<monochrom>	Well, I'm going to do that!
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21:59:22	<mauke>	could pull a PHP and make it left-assoc for no reason
21:59:41	<Rembane>	Is there a middle-assoc?
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22:00:49	<mauke>	I've only got chained and non-assoc
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22:03:46	<monochrom>	OK Python allows what I said haha.
22:03:54	<monochrom>	I am now trolling my students!
22:04:31	<monochrom>	It is not everyday that Python gets something right mathematically. >:D
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22:12:16	<EvanR>	there's 8 ways to do it
22:12:26	<EvanR>	no
22:12:32	<EvanR>	6
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22:55:59	<sclv>	does anyone have example code of using http-client along with oauth?
22:56:11	<sclv>	the oauth client is pretty undocumented
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23:52:53	<bratwurst>	i am going homeless now. i have no idea if i will ever be back
23:53:02	<bratwurst>	thank you for talking to me and being nice
23:53:11	<bratwurst>	it was nice share an interest with someone
23:53:19	→	Sgeo_ joins (~Sgeo@user/sgeo)
23:53:22	<bratwurst>	you have saved my life
23:53:34	×	Sgeo_ quits (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Remote host closed the connection)
23:53:42	<bratwurst>	i will find a place where i can be anonymous and just interact with people online
23:53:50	<bratwurst>	i no longer need the abusers in my life
23:53:55	<bratwurst>	i am content to be nothing now
23:54:49	×	Tuplanolla quits (~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-236.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.)
23:55:49	<bratwurst>	i could've been a good programmer but people only ever attack me. so fuck everyone
23:56:33	<bratwurst>	i put quiet on now. i really wish someone would reply. but its fine. life is an empty void
23:58:31	<bratwurst>	you know what. i'm not going to wait for a reply.
23:58:45	<bratwurst>	goodbye gentlefolk. a good life for you all
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All times are in UTC on 2023-07-05.