Logs on 2023-07-30 (liberachat/#haskell)
| 00:04:49 | <c_wraith> | Well, I think whatever you're recalling was using balanced ternary, but I'm not sure how it relates to CR. Well, that's not entirely true. I'm seeing it has some properties like "rounding and truncation are the same operation", which is really helpful - when doing epsilon-delta approximations. |
| 00:05:00 | <c_wraith> | But that's what you asked for it to not have. :) |
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| 00:08:47 | <dolio> | Well, I think the point is that 0,1 reals get you into 'infinite carry' situations. Like, if you add 0 to 1/2, where the latter is represented as '0111...', no finite amount of lookahead will help you be sure of the first digit of the result. |
| 00:09:21 | <dolio> | And the ternary representation might let you go, "I'll just put a 1 there and fix it up with a -1 later if I need to." |
| 00:09:56 | <dolio> | But I'd like a reference to something instead of working out all the details myself. :) |
| 00:11:59 | <dolio> | Also it might not be arbitrary streams of 0,1,-1. Not sure. |
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| 03:27:50 | <EvanR> | dolio, Signed-Digit Numbe Representations for Fast Parallel Arithmetic - Algirdas Avizienis ? |
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| 04:06:40 | <dolio> | Maybe. Hard to tell from the abstract whether that's about real numbers or integers. |
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| 04:14:15 | <monochrom> | I bet "fast" means integers. :) |
| 04:30:42 | <dolio> | Yeah. It's from the 60s, too. :) |
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| 05:19:12 | <Inst__> | hmmm, is anyone bored? |
| 05:19:24 | <Inst__> | i have a really bad minimax algorithm in Haskell for tic-tac-toe |
| 05:19:41 | <Inst__> | wondering if anyone is willing to help clean it up (no, I'm not optimizing it, but just in terms of readability) |
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| 07:20:37 | <[exa]> | Inst__: don't ask to pastebin code, just pastebin code |
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| 08:37:12 | <probie> | If you ask "can someone help me clean it up" without including the code at the time of asking, you're not likely to get a reply. You're asking someone to volunteer their time without really letting them know what they'll be volunteering for |
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| 08:41:11 | <probie> | Your minimax might be <10 line naive {mini,nega}max with no pruning, or something quite involved with pruning, transposition tables, and relies on knowledge about sibling nodes (e.g. you've implemented the killer heuristic for move ordering) |
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| 10:08:18 | <c_wraith> | a completely unoptimized game tree for tic-tac-toe has less than 300k nodes. It doesn't matter that much if you optimize it or not. |
| 10:09:03 | <darkling> | But maybe the exercise of writing the optimisations is in itself interesting. |
| 10:09:19 | <jade[m]> | tbh for tic tac toe you might as well encode all possible game states by hand |
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| 11:38:39 | <probie> | c_wraith: I'd assumed they were using the term "tic-tac-toe" to refer to an arbitrary m,n,k game (m x n board, k in a row to win), as opposed to 3,3,3 in specific, but that may have been a mistake on my part |
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| 11:58:06 | <ncf> | found the answer to my question! section 6 of https://arxiv.org/pdf/1402.1699.pdf |
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| 11:59:29 | <ncf> | so a Monad m => (a -> m a) -> s -> m s is the same as s -> Free (Store a) s, where Store a s = (a, a -> s) |
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| 22:47:20 | <shapr> | here's another blog post! https://shapr.github.io/posts/2023-07-30-goldilocks-property-tests.html |
| 22:47:28 | <shapr> | and it's short! |
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| 23:05:07 | <dsal> | shapr: It's so weird that people complain about bugs that were found that they weren't looking for. |
| 23:05:32 | <dsal> | Sometimes it's the "old" bugs, or sometimes it's a property testing hitting an area it hadn't hit before, but revealing a bug. |
| 23:06:04 | <dsal> | Of course, sometimes it's just poorly written tests, which some folks tend to argue is a distinct experience in property tests. |
| 23:06:11 | <jackdk> | The best bit is when property tests turn up bugs of the "how did that _ever_ work?" variety. |
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| 23:07:59 | <int-e> | dsal: but wouldn't you agree that the information whether the bug is in new code or in old code is helpful for debugging |
| 23:08:30 | <int-e> | (that's not black and white of course; new code can use old code in novel ways) |
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| 23:10:13 | <dsal> | int-e: sure, just responding to that blog post plus my experience with people being upset about bugs unrelated to what they changed. |
| 23:10:39 | <dsal> | They’re either bugs or poorly written tests. |
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| 23:41:43 | <shapr> | dsal: deadlines make people cranky |
| 23:42:06 | <shapr> | I agree, I'm happy when property tests find "old" bugs |
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| 23:42:49 | Lycurgus | slips em with glee |
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| 23:47:42 | <dolio> | People set up a lot of arbitrary rules around tests that make that sort of thing inconvenient. |
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| 23:48:31 | <dolio> | Like, "your code can't be merged until a bug you had nothing to do with is fixed, because it was triggered when reviewing your patch." |
| 23:48:53 | <Lycurgus> | part of a vast make work sector |
| 23:49:59 | <shapr> | dolio: yeah, that's bad |
| 23:50:14 | <shapr> | I'm fine with "report the bug that had nothing to do with your change, then continue" |
| 23:50:15 | <Lycurgus> | the conditions that would make building quality in from the jump, which you might especially expect in the hs culture, being socially inhibited |
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| 23:59:25 | <arahael> | dolio: I'm fine with that as long as you can put that into a separate ticket which then gets triaged. |
All times are in UTC on 2023-07-30.