Logs on 2023-08-13 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 00:41:09 | <m21it> | Does anybody know native Haskell implementation of Scrypt or Argon2id key derivation function (KDF)? |
| 00:41:46 | <Hecate> | m21it: is this for a hobby, purely learning type of project? |
| 00:42:14 | <nek0> | m21it: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/cryptonite |
| 00:42:42 | <Hecate> | nek0: are you sure this one is not calling to C? |
| 00:42:48 | <Hecate> | (also, hi!) |
| 00:43:01 | <m21it> | For the hobby, I don't care about efficiency. I think cryptonite does use C. I need the implementation which could work with GHCJS |
| 00:44:09 | <nek0> | oh, sry. my bad. cryptonite in fact calls to C |
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| 00:45:48 | <Hecate> | I don't believe these two functions are available purely in Haskell |
| 00:48:20 | <nek0> | from a quick glance the library "password" does not seem to include any FFI and does argon2. |
| 00:48:30 | <nek0> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/password |
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| 00:50:17 | <nek0> | but I agree with Hecate, It's hard to impossible to find anything cryptography related not using any forms of FFI. Implementing cryptographic algorithms is a non-trivial task. |
| 00:57:24 | <m21it> | Thanks for reply, nek0 and Hecate! I'll check this lib. It seems to be dependent on cryptonite, so might not quite work. If it will not work, I might use just HKDF for now.. Are there any disadvantages of using HKDF vs these 2 algos? |
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| 01:03:10 | <nek0> | I'm not really into cryptography, so I can't tell. sry. |
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| 16:15:59 | <gaff> | In GHCi, if you load a package and hit `:browse`, would you see value constructors of a data type even though the library only exports the type constructor and therefore you wouldn't be able to use the value constructor? |
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| 16:19:34 | <[exa]> | gaff: not sure, did you try? |
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| 16:25:17 | <gaff> | yes, i did. and GHCi does this: if you did `:browse` after loading the package, it displays value constructors of types even when the library exports only the type constructors. however, if you try to use the value constructor, GHCi then says the value constructor is not in scope. |
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| 16:29:03 | <gaff> | for example, if a library has defined the data type `data Foo = Foo String String` and exports only the type constructor `Foo`, in GHCi, if you load the package, and hit `:browse`, you will see, at least I do, the full definition `data Foo = Foo String String` but you will not be able use the value constructor `Foo` . |
| 16:30:06 | <int-e> | It will use the fully qualified name for `Foo` though. |
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| 16:31:00 | <int-e> | So that's a hint that it may be inaccessible. |
| 16:33:45 | <gaff> | int-e: OK, you mean by "qualified name" it will display something like `data Foo = X.Y.Foo String String`? |
| 16:33:53 | <int-e> | yes |
| 16:34:06 | <gaff> | ah ok, it surely does that. |
| 16:34:53 | <gaff> | what does the qualified name indicate here? |
| 16:35:50 | <int-e> | As to why GHCi has that information... I believe that GHC stores this information in .hi files to enable cross-module inlining for functions that use those "internal" constructors. And for GHCi the developers just decided not to hide that information from the user. |
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| 16:37:55 | <int-e> | gaff: GHCi uses the fully qualified name if the constructor is inaccessible. But that's indistinguishable from the case that the constructor is accessible but only by the fully qualified name (because you used `import qualified X.Y`) |
| 16:38:15 | <int-e> | So it's really just a hint. |
| 16:38:36 | <gaff> | int-e: i see. thank you. |
| 16:39:39 | <gaff> | i was confused by it initially which is why i asked this stuff here in this IRC channel. |
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| 16:41:17 | <int-e> | no worries |
| 16:41:31 | <gaff> | int-e: thanks much for your help |
| 16:42:31 | <EvanR> | brain size 1: just export everything. brain size 2: they might violate your invariants so hide the constructors and internal functions. brain size 3: now someone is stuck because they can't access internal stuff for hacks, create a separate Internals module |
| 16:42:40 | <EvanR> | galaxy brain: just export everything xD |
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| 17:02:04 | <monochrom> | Unpopular opinion: For the question "how to represent an infinite set?" a legitimate answer is "()" because it was unspecified what to do with the infinite set. |
| 17:02:55 | <monochrom> | IOW if you don't export anything accept the type name, its implementation can be safely (). |
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| 17:03:47 | int-e | stares into the Void |
| 17:04:35 | <monochrom> | But Void is when you export impossibily powerful functions! :) |
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| 17:06:32 | <EvanR> | since you specified a "set" that comes with features |
| 17:06:46 | <EvanR> | classically speaking |
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| 17:07:24 | <EvanR> | like the axiom of choice |
| 17:07:25 | <monochrom> | Yeah I don't do that to finite sets. But with infinite sets you must give up something, and so you must specify what not to give up. |
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| 17:09:24 | <int-e> | so you decided to give up on membership tests, enumeration, test for emptiness. you still support insertion, intersection, union... |
| 17:09:45 | <monochrom> | :) |
| 17:13:00 | <EvanR> | give up everything except the paradoxes of set theory |
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| 17:52:17 | <EvanR> | jargon question. if you have types A and B, there is a type A x B with name product type. The elements or values or inhabitants etc of A x B are pairs |
| 17:52:42 | <EvanR> | A + B is the sum type. What are the elements, values, etc called |
| 17:53:02 | <anselmschueler> | Is there a list of the GHC CPP flags & does Cabal set any? |
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| 17:53:32 | <anselmschueler> | Also, can you use an if clause in a Cabal file to conditionally set the default value of a flag? |
| 17:54:08 | <anselmschueler> | In particular, does setting a flag in Cabal set a CPP macro? |
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| 18:03:57 | <merijn> | anselmschueler: You can conditionally (via if in cabal file) specify ghc-options and GHC options can set CPP defines |
| 18:04:00 | <merijn> | via -D |
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| 18:05:10 | <merijn> | anselmschueler: Also, note that cabal flags are intended compile plans, not toggle features, so the default flags are "automatic" which means that "if no build plan is found, cabal will start toggling automatic flags and see if that results in a build plan" |
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| 18:09:25 | <anselmschueler> | I see |
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| 18:16:24 | <tomsmeding> | EvanR: in category theory both are pairs -- the latter a dependent pair of the tag and the value (i.e. fields) :p |
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| 18:19:46 | <ncf> | in category theory neither are pairs, because "pair" refers to a choice of encoding |
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| 18:20:26 | <ncf> | in set theory or type theory, i guess both are typically encoded as pairs, but i don't think there's an actual name for an element of A + B |
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| 18:24:07 | <EvanR> | look what you did tomsmeding |
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| 18:25:45 | <EvanR> | proof by nlab "A pair is usually an n-tuple for n=2, that is an ordered pair. Such a pair is a term of product type, an element of a Cartesian product, a generalized element of a product object, etc." |
| 18:27:04 | <EvanR> | and to see what it makes of sum types... In type theory a sum type of two types A and B (really: coproduct) is the type whose terms are either terms a:A or terms b:B. |
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| 18:27:26 | <hpc> | this confusion is why we should use C++ terrminology - A*B is a vector and A+B is an interface |
| 18:27:29 | <hpc> | easy :D |
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| 18:29:13 | <EvanR> | just when I think I might understand something, C++ happens |
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| 18:29:35 | <ncf> | huh |
| 18:32:21 | <mauke> | I thought in C++ terminology a "vector" was a dynamic array and A*A was a "valarray" |
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| 18:36:47 | <anselmschueler> | How about C terminology |
| 18:37:02 | <anselmschueler> | Wouldn’t A×B be a struct, and A+B a union? |
| 18:37:41 | <tomsmeding> | mauke: er, 'array' right, not 'valarray'? |
| 18:37:48 | <tomsmeding> | anselmschueler: tagged union |
| 18:37:55 | <anselmschueler> | tomsmeding: oh right |
| 18:38:00 | <EvanR> | untagged union also works xD |
| 18:38:26 | <EvanR> | if used correctly |
| 18:38:46 | <anselmschueler> | installing GHC on Windows takes a whil |
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| 18:38:49 | <tomsmeding> | EvanR: how do you use union {int a; int b;}; correctly? |
| 18:38:55 | <EvanR> | very carefully |
| 18:39:14 | <mauke> | tomsmeding: not in C++98! or C++03, probably |
| 18:39:28 | <EvanR> | obviously, not by inspecting the tag, which I erased for you |
| 18:39:44 | <mauke> | tomsmeding: all uses of that union are correct |
| 18:39:45 | <glguy> | You just remember which field is the valid one. If you're not sure then ask the user! |
| 18:39:47 | <anselmschueler> | mauke: is union casting UB in C++? |
| 18:39:57 | <mauke> | oof |
| 18:39:57 | <tomsmeding> | mauke: a valarray is homogeneous |
| 18:40:19 | <mauke> | anselmschueler: depends on what you mean by that |
| 18:40:54 | <glguy> | > It is undefined behavior to read from the member of the union that wasn't most recently written. Many compilers implement, as a non-standard language extension, the ability to read inactive members of a union. -- https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/union |
| 18:41:14 | <anselmschueler> | glguy: is the same thing true of C? |
| 18:41:16 | <mauke> | ooh |
| 18:41:17 | <EvanR> | as usual, you have a proof somewhere that you only access the union member that was properly initialized earlier |
| 18:41:30 | <EvanR> | don't lose that proof or forget to prove it |
| 18:41:42 | <glguy> | anselmschueler: it got defined in C99 |
| 18:41:48 | <glguy> | https://en.cppreference.com/w/c/language/union |
| 18:41:59 | <glguy> | look for "If the member used to access the contents of a union is not the same "... |
| 18:43:14 | <anselmschueler> | glguy: what is a “trap representation”? |
| 18:43:16 | <mauke> | glguy: immediately contradicted further down by "If two union members are standard-layout types, it's well-defined to examine their common subsequence on any compiler." |
| 18:43:35 | <mauke> | and int is standard-layout |
| 18:44:14 | <glguy> | mauke: so it is |
| 18:44:50 | <anselmschueler> | mauke: is that just because it _happens_ to be that _every_ compiler implements it or is it in the standard? |
| 18:45:04 | <EvanR> | or both |
| 18:45:35 | <glguy> | Seems like 1) in general you can't 2) special case: if the types are standard-layout, you can |
| 18:46:09 | <mauke> | the general case isn't even well defined |
| 18:46:14 | <anselmschueler> | can you use GHC on Windows w/o MinGW? |
| 18:47:08 | <mauke> | union { int a, b; } u; int *ptr = &u.b; u.a = 42; printf("%d\n", *ptr); // is this UB? |
| 18:47:10 | <glguy> | mauke: the common subsequence clause doesn't allow for the "type-punning", it would seem, that c99 defines |
| 18:47:24 | <mauke> | union { int a, b; } u; int *ptr = &u.b; u.a = 42; if (ptr == &u.a) { printf("%d\n", *ptr); } // what about now? |
| 18:48:25 | <anselmschueler> | glguy: oh does “common subsequence” mean when the values are identitical_ between them? |
| 18:48:47 | <glguy> | I think it means when the types are identical, like two structs, one with more fields than the other but the same initial fields |
| 18:49:46 | <glguy> | mauke: c++14 defined that the address of the two members would be the same, so your == check is probably well defined there |
| 18:50:03 | <glguy> | if we use a late enough version |
| 18:52:06 | <glguy> | mauke: your example doesn't violate a strict aliasing rule with both things being the same type, so I wouldn't be surprised to find out that it's OK to do that |
| 18:53:13 | <EvanR> | defined behavior is great |
| 18:54:03 | <EvanR> | I think it's funny that the implication above is that "not undefined" behavior is OK |
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| 19:03:59 | <dolio> | "not undefined" could also be implementation defined, but not completely specified by the standard. |
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| 22:09:14 | <bratwurst> | hi. ive got a function that needs an 'IOVector' and ive got an 'Image' which has a 'Vector'. How do I convert? |
| 22:09:45 | <bratwurst> | so an IOVector is held by a foreign ptr correct? |
| 22:10:52 | <bratwurst> | what's the relation between 'RealWorld' and 'PrimState m'? |
| 22:11:18 | <bratwurst> | 'new' won't give me an 'IOVector' will it? |
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| 22:12:33 | <monochrom> | Look for "freeze" and "thaw". |
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| 22:17:52 | <bratwurst> | oh thank you. i missed that whole section |
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| 22:20:51 | <bratwurst> | ok so 'thaw' returns an 'MVector (PrimState m) a', whereas an 'IOVector' is type synonym 'MVector RealWorld'. what's happening here? |
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| 22:21:56 | <monochrom> | If m=IO, then PrimState m = PrimState IO = RealWorld. |
| 22:22:27 | <bratwurst> | ah excellent. i understand now |
| 22:23:27 | <geekosaur> | the indirection is because ST also can be a PrimState |
| 22:28:01 | <bratwurst> | im confused by the documentation for 'Image'. is it always going to be four bytes to a pixel? |
| 22:29:54 | <bratwurst> | nevermind i need to look at juicypixels, not rasterifci |
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