Home liberachat/#haskell: Logs Calendar

Logs on 2023-09-06 (liberachat/#haskell)

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00:58:10 <wroathe> Is there a way to express the class of all types that have a field of type T?
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00:58:55 <c_wraith> you really shouldn't. Classes should always be opt-in.
00:58:59 <wroathe> For example all types with a field of type Text, so data Foo = Foo Int Text Bool would match, but data Bar = Bar Int String Bool would not
01:00:01 <Axman6> the HasField class comes close, it has class HasField (x :: k) r a | x r -> a where, but I don't think you can meaningfully do something like: foo :: HasField x r T => x -> Bool
01:00:08 <EvanR> Foo Text Int has a field, Bar Int Text has a field, Baz Text Text has TWO fields, even better
01:00:16 <EvanR> (but no field names)
01:00:38 <Axman6> you could use generics-sop to build that constraint pretty easily though
01:01:00 <Axman6> and you could do it in a way that ensures there is exactly one field of that type
01:01:02 <wroathe> Well my use case is that I've got types that represent SQL tables where I've got a newtype field wrapper with a phantom type parameter that indicates the field is a primary key. I want to define the class of types that has a PrimaryKey field: data Foo = Foo { foo :: Constrained Text '[PrimaryKey], }
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01:01:23 <Axman6> the generic-lens package has stuff for this actually, IIRC
01:01:48 <wroathe> Thanks Axman6. I'll have a look at these.
01:02:01 <c_wraith> write your class, give it a default instance that uses genericyuhujikop[]\
01:02:10 <c_wraith> err, sorry about that. cat interference.
01:02:23 <c_wraith> But leave the class opt-in
01:02:39 <c_wraith> just say "no" to writing classes for all types.
01:03:03 <wroathe> The opt-in is given by the fact that only types that have this Constrained newtype with this '[PrimaryKey] parameter will be part of the class
01:03:17 <c_wraith> that's not how classes work
01:03:19 <wroathe> Also this isn't a library, so I'm free to get up to all kinds of hijinx :P
01:03:26 <c_wraith> If you write an instance for all types, it's for all types
01:03:44 <c_wraith> Even if not all types can satisfy the additional constraints
01:04:49 <c_wraith> It's so much easier in the long term to explicitly opt in.
01:05:03 <c_wraith> Like.. things don't break the first time you have a special case.
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01:09:39 <Axman6> I would defiitely look at generic-lens, there's lots of stuff in there for similar ideas
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01:37:45 <Axman6> is there a lensism for making multiple changes to a subsection of a structure? foo & _APrism . _2 .~ True & _APrism . _3 .~ "Hello" --> foo & ._APrism . (_2 .~ True ??? _3 .~ "Hello")
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01:49:15 <probie> Axman6: What would be the intended semantics if both lenses modified the same part of the structure?
01:49:34 <jackdk> Axman6: `foo & _APrism %~ (lensProduct _2 _3 .~ (True, "Hello"))`, but `Control.Lens.Unsound.lensProduct` must be given disjoint lenses
01:50:15 <c_wraith> > [(1,2), (3,4), (5,6)] &~ zoom (ix 1) (do _1 .= 7 ; _2 .= 9) -- Axman6: alternatively, you can get nice concrete semantics with something like this
01:50:17 <lambdabot> [(1,2),(7,9),(5,6)]
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01:54:04 <c_wraith> ok, you can do it with less complexity:
01:54:05 <c_wraith> > [(1,2), (3,4), (5,6)] & ix 1 %~ (_1 .~ 7) . (_2 .~ 9)
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01:54:06 <lambdabot> [(1,2),(7,9),(5,6)]
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02:04:12 <jackdk> Oh yeah the operator Axman6 is looking for is actually `(.)`. Because everything in lens is secretly `(.)` or `id`
02:06:23 <c_wraith> well, the real trick in what I did was %~
02:06:43 <c_wraith> Which... ok, it's a coerce away from id. (It uses some Identity wrappers)
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02:20:39 <Axman6> probie: definitely perform the left update and then the right (which the lens laws should insure is fine, given that foo .~ x & foo .~ y == foo .~ y
02:21:06 <Axman6> hmmm, I guess using %~ works
02:23:17 <Axman6> needs something with different fixity than (.) though, because you end up needing to put each setting expression in brackets: _APrism %~ ((_2 .~ True) . (_3 .~ "Hello"))
02:23:39 <Axman6> oh I guess the outer ones are unneeded
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03:50:47 <c_wraith> Axman6: you can lose the inner brackets if you use set instead of .~
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04:32:02 <Axman6> Anyone have opinions on which yaml library to use?
04:36:08 <probie> For dealing with yaml in all its glory, or yaml as "JSON with comments and less string quoting"?
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04:42:21 <jackdk> convert in/out of dhall
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04:45:03 <probie> I've used Snoyman's one which is just named "yaml", and whilst it worked for my use case, it bothered me because it doesn't support yaml 1.2, and because I also don't like Aeson.
04:45:06 <Axman6> Possibly YAML in all its glory, I'm definitely planning to have some form of referencing/templating (think: "array: {of: Boolean, size: 8, count: $CHANNEL_COUNT}}
04:47:04 <probie> It also explicitly rejects yaml documents with a version other than 1.1, when the spec says they "should be processed with an appropriate warning"
04:47:06 <Axman6> I was looking at https://hackage.haskell.org/package/yaml-combinators-1.1.2.1/docs/Data-Yaml-Combinators.html which seems like it does some things I would want. Not sure how well it reports errors though, I would love something that tells me exactly where something went wrong (and possibly gave me the ability to extract location information for everything while parsing, since i'll need to do something to resolve those variables too)
04:48:09 <Axman6> Maybe something like Dhall isn't a terrible idea
04:48:45 <Axman6> Hmmm, maybe that is actually, in fact, a good idea.
04:50:24 <probie> I wonder why so few yaml libraries simultaneously support yaml 1.1 and yaml 1.2?
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05:07:30 <Axman6> Probably because YAML Is Hard^{TM} (https://stackoverflow.com/questions/3790454/how-do-i-break-a-string-in-yaml-over-multiple-lines/21699210#21699210 - I used to work with Steve who wrote that answer, see also https://yaml-multiline.info)
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05:28:16 <probie> A fun game is seeing if it'll accept something like `? !!int 3.14` and if so what it gives. Yaml itself doesn't require string keys (or even scalar keys for that matter), but it should fail because 3.14 isn't an int
05:28:18 <Axman6> Hmmmm, the lack of recursive types might make Dhall a non-starter, but maybe that's workable. I'm specifically looking to define hierarchies, which might have bounded depth, but I don't know what it would be
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05:31:54 <Axman6> ... can you emulate arbitrary recursion by using type level naturals and specifying the maximum height?
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05:37:33 <Lears> Axman6: Dhall is approximately System F, so you have "recursive" types via least and greatest fixed points of your chosen functor.
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05:38:28 <Lears> This is in Haskell, but can be translated in principle: https://gist.github.com/LSLeary/98763e62f6fe4a2d629f74b38b9f2e45
05:39:09 <Lears> There should be a library you can use somewhere so you don't actually need to do that translation yourself.
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05:46:02 <Axman6> well, that is definitely not going to fly at work, I can't barely follow that, and the rest of the team is python devs
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05:48:51 <Lears> It basically comes down to "use newtype List a = List (forall r. r -> (a -> r -> r) -> r), not data List a = Nil | Cons a (List a)".
05:49:07 <Lears> You can hide the complexity inside and write an easy interface.
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07:12:11 <jackdk> https://github.com/jcouyang/dhall-aws-cloudformation/blob/master/Fn.dhall Axman6 I only have the vaguest idea of how this works, but I can confidently say that none of us have needed to know or care to be able to use it. (It's an implementation of an AST for the `Fn::*` functions in CloudFormation templates)
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07:17:44 <Axman6> I am impressed and disgusted at the same time
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11:46:21 <Keinbou> Greetings everyone. I have a problem regarding GHCup installation. My Windows cannot open certain file: msys2_shell.cmd. It says it does not exist. Any suggestions?
11:50:41 <jackdk> Keinbou: I don't have and have not developed for windows for a very long time, but it appears that file is part of msys2, which is a suite of tools to provide a unix-like shell for running traditional `./configure` scripts
11:51:06 <jackdk> Keinbou: https://www.haskell.org/ghcup/install/ has a manual install section which you could try, which talks about installing and setting up msys2?
11:51:30 <jackdk> Keinbou: sorry I can't be more help, it's late here and I need to sleep, but I didn't want to leave you hanging
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11:53:06 <jackdk> (The manual windows install instructions are very close to the bottom of that page)
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11:59:17 <Keinbou> Thank you! I'll try.
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12:11:32 <Skillkraft> Read a children's story about diarrhea and empathy on an airplane! ::: he Adventure of Westeastern Flight 194: Emily Goes Poopie
12:11:32 <Skillkraft> Delta-India-Alpha-Romeo-Romeo-Hotel-Echo-Alpha! We have a huge fecal mess in the cabin! ::: https://justpaste.it/mile-high-diarrhea-delta-airline
12:12:43 Skillkraft is now known as Skiltoniano
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12:27:48 <Guest|28> Hi
12:28:07 <Guest|28> How to run .hs file after installation
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12:34:57 <danse-nr3> Guest|28, did you install GHCUp or what?
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14:31:46 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> Anyone have any thoughts on how to implement / represent "SHA256d" using cryptonite? Should I define my own "SHA256d" like "SHA256" and then implement all of the classes that SHA256 implements? This sounds a bit tedious :/ A shortcut would be nice ...
14:33:15 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> I'm also not even _sure_ SHA256d fits into cryptonite's HashAlgorithm class :/
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14:34:49 <danse-nr3> is that SHA246 digest?
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14:35:30 <geekosaur> I thought everyone was moving to crypton, not that that necessarily changes things
14:35:36 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> It's SHA256 where the digest is fed through SHA256 again
14:35:47 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> geekosaur: Yes, I suppose, but I'm not there yet.
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14:53:52 <cael_> Hello, I'm new to haskell, whats the haskell community like
14:55:15 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> a warm summer's day
14:56:31 <cael_> glad to hear it
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14:57:52 <cael_> Its in an interesting place as a programming language, being a relativly popular language developed in academia
14:59:10 <cael_> functional programming is also quite interesting as a concept, I suppose it would be nice to have another perspective / approach to programming
15:00:14 <mauke> what's your background?
15:00:22 <cael_> physics
15:00:40 <cael_> the only programming language I would call myself profficient in is python
15:00:47 <mauke> ah
15:01:21 <danse-nr3> i recall some physicists mentioning fortran as a popular language in that field
15:02:57 <cael_> I'm currently an undergrad, I havent encounterd it but I have heard that as well
15:02:58 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> fortran will definitely give you a new perspective if you're coming from python.
15:03:33 <sinbad> cael_: here you go with haskell in physics: https://discourse.haskell.org/t/book-learn-physics-with-functional-programming/7533
15:04:28 <mauke> > [ x^2 | x <- [1 .. 10], even x ] -- have some comprehension
15:04:29 <lambdabot> [4,16,36,64,100]
15:05:24 <danse-nr3> the python-friendly feature i like the most in haskell is doctests
15:05:45 <mauke> what's that?
15:06:17 <cael_> I've had a brief look through the physics book, I've also started https://book.realworldhaskell.org/
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15:06:55 <cael_> idk if this is the best resource to learn it from scratch
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15:07:28 <danse-nr3> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/doctest-0.22.1#a-basic-example mauke
15:07:32 <EvanR> cael_, here's what I used... https://www.haskell.org/tutorial/
15:08:06 <mauke> huh. I don't even remember how I learned Haskell
15:08:09 <EvanR> skip to Values, Types, and Other Goodies to start in media res
15:08:49 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> I got this far on a `DoubleHash` `HashAlgorithm` but I'm not sure what's going on with `digestPtr` there - https://gist.github.com/exarkun/f0e5f6a1688b72b78b0390ab3c4f08bc
15:09:02 <mauke> medias, but now I have to look up the declension of 'res'
15:09:44 <danse-nr3> it means "start from the middle"
15:10:23 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> awww, nevermind, I just put some parens in a silly place.
15:10:41 <geekosaur> I don't think I recommend the "Gentle Introduction" to someone who isn't already reasonably well versed in SML/NJ or other functional language; iirc it assumes you understand things like pattern matching already and just covers Haskell's differences in that area
15:10:52 <geekosaur> I started from it but I already knew some SML
15:10:54 <mauke> ah, accusative plural
15:11:40 <mauke> "into the middle things"
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15:12:10 <mauke> right, I already knew OCaml when I started looking at Haskell
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15:12:39 <EvanR> section 2 explains pattern matching almost without even explaining it, it's great
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15:13:06 <mauke> jean-paul. btw, 'do X; pure ()' is 'void X'
15:13:29 <geekosaur> anyway for free resources I recommend the wikibook, for paid I recommend Hutton's book
15:13:36 <geekosaur> @where wikibook
15:13:36 <lambdabot> http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Haskell
15:13:42 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> mauke: indeed, thanks.
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15:14:14 <geekosaur> @where pih
15:14:14 <lambdabot> "Programming in Haskell" by Graham Hutton in 2007-01-15,2016-09-01 at <http://www.cs.nott.ac.uk/~pszgmh/pih.html>
15:14:37 <EvanR> also you can read a pamphlet sized awful-looking free page at an easily remembered URL while also buying 100 dollars worth of textbooks for later
15:14:52 <danse-nr3> @where doctest
15:14:52 <lambdabot> I know nothing about doctest.
15:15:01 <geekosaur> @hackage doctest
15:15:01 <lambdabot> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/doctest
15:15:07 <danse-nr3> cheers
15:15:10 <mauke> danse-nr3: thanks
15:15:27 <cael_> hmm thanks, I did the interactive tutorial on haskell.org which introduced pattern matching, I know I will need to go into more depth but I enjoyed the tutorial
15:15:36 <mauke> @where+ doctest https://hackage.haskell.org/package/doctest
15:15:36 <lambdabot> Okay.
15:15:48 <cael_> currently looking at the above resources
15:17:55 <geekosaur> there's also
15:18:00 <geekosaur> @where cis194
15:18:00 <lambdabot> <https://github.com/byorgey/haskell-course>,<https://www.seas.upenn.edu/~cis194/spring13/lectures.html>
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15:18:29 <geekosaur> which, since you're not actually taking the course, you can do at your own pace
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15:21:38 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> I can say I did cis194 after tinkering with some other Haskell resources on and off and I found cis194 to be very helpful in solidifying my understanding of a lot of pieces.
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15:49:51 <chromoblob> is there a thing such as "freestanding Haskell"? sure you need an RTS anyways, but...
15:50:30 <geekosaur> you might look at jhc
15:51:04 <c_wraith> like... fully statically linked?
15:51:19 <mauke> ... House?
15:51:40 <c_wraith> people have used alpine linux to get fully standalone linux binaries out of GHC
15:51:54 <geekosaur> so now we have three different notions of what you meant; could you elucidate?
15:52:36 <chromoblob> no, freestanding is unrelated to fully statically linked
15:53:20 <chromoblob> i mean, without support of OS interface
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15:54:10 <EvanR> there was a project to get haskell to run on bare metal... what was it called
15:54:17 <geekosaur> halvm?
15:54:20 <EvanR> yeah
15:55:06 <mauke> @where house
15:55:06 <lambdabot> http://programatica.cs.pdx.edu/House/
15:57:47 <EvanR> yeah that to
15:57:51 <chromoblob> ok thanks
15:58:13 <chromoblob> i have a weak, purely idle interest in asking
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15:58:35 <EvanR> damn I want the gedit program featured In House
15:59:44 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> I have worked with Foreign.C for byte strings and such before ... but now I have a `Ptr (Digest a)`... Can I work on the `Digest a` from Haskell or is this only for handing off to C?
16:00:14 <EvanR> if you have functions that work on Ptr (Digest a), you're golden!
16:00:21 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> :)
16:00:27 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> And if not?
16:00:36 <EvanR> otherwise you can use peek to get the Digest a, if it has a Storable instance
16:00:40 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> Or ... How do I write such a function? :)
16:00:48 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> it has no Storable instance :/
16:00:51 <EvanR> hmm
16:01:09 <geekosaur> you're not guaranteed to have a `Digest`, it's a phantom parameter for the `Ptr` (`Addr#`)
16:01:45 <EvanR> so it's probably intended to be an opaque pointer here
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16:02:11 <geekosaur> you can access the memory using the `Foreign` interface but you need to know what it represents, which will depend on where you got it from
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16:02:36 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> Digest has a ByteArrayAccess instance... but I couldn't see how that would help
16:03:18 <EvanR> that sounds promising
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16:04:27 <geekosaur> "For example function convert can transform one ByteArrayAccess concrete type like Digest to a ByteString"
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16:05:29 <mauke> doesn't help with the Ptr part, though
16:05:43 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> Yea, I don't see how to get through the Ptr...
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16:06:22 <geekosaur> yeh, I just noticed that, it can go *to* a `Ptr` but not *from*
16:07:00 <EvanR> safety first
16:09:14 <geekosaur> but it looks like `ByteArray` works with `Ptr`s, and `withByteArray` seems to be what you want?
16:10:13 <mauke> we don't have a bytearray
16:10:44 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> I have a `Ptr (Digest a)`
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17:15:05 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> so .. `Digest a` is a newtype around `Block Word8`. `Block` is a data with one field, `ByteArray#` (type parameters to both types phantom). How many kinds of wrong is `coerce @(Ptr (Digest a)) @CString`?
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17:50:32 <EvanR> haha
17:51:18 <EvanR> CString = Ptr Char implies there's a string with intentionally null terminated end somewhere?
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17:51:40 <EvanR> Digest sounds like a block of arbitrary bytes
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17:55:12 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> In this case it's a fixed length of arbitrary bytes, not nul terminated, yes
17:55:28 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> but I know the fixed length, I don't need CStringLen or similar to tell me
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17:56:32 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> (I can ask `Digest a` how many bytes are there with the associated type family `HashDigestSize a`)
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18:03:12 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> my HashAlgorithm instance blows up after it encounters undefined somewhere, even after I take all the undefineds out of my code, hrmph :/
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18:07:57 <EvanR> you can take `undefined' out of the code, but that doesn't necessarily make the code defined!
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18:09:15 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> :)
18:09:40 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> cryptonite hash implementation is littered with undefined
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18:10:27 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> they all look safe to me though
18:13:30 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> Hruuumph. The difference between undefined and defined is whether I write my instance functions like this: `hashBlockSize DoubleHash = hashBlockSize @hash undefined` (undefined) or like this: `hashBlockSize _ = hashBlockSize @hash undefined` (defined)
18:13:40 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> Seems like an interesting language property I should probably know about
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18:16:18 <mauke> the first form pattern matches on the argument, which forces evaluation
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18:17:31 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> the definition of `DoubleHash` is `data DoubleHash hash = DoubleHash` ... (so, no undefines being carried along there). What gets evaluated exactly?
18:18:49 <ncf> the argument gets evaluated. if it's a thunk, it gets forced
18:19:22 <mauke> someone is calling 'hashBlockSize undefined'
18:19:37 <EvanR> why is the argument to that function undefined smh
18:19:38 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> Oh
18:19:42 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> Yea, okay. cryptonite is doing that a lot.
18:20:03 <EvanR> is that like a Proxy
18:20:09 <mauke> should've been using a proxy
18:20:09 <geekosaur> yes, it's an pold idiom, the size is determined by the type so there's no need to see the parameter
18:20:13 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> I think, basically, yea
18:20:16 <geekosaur> in modern code Proxy is preferred
18:20:27 <geekosaur> *an old idiom
18:20:42 <mauke> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.18.0.0/docs/Foreign-Storable.html#v:sizeOf
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18:25:30 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> Thanks all
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21:03:09 <erisco> Who is David Wagner? Sounds familiar and I stumbled on his blog https://thewagner.net/
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21:04:54 <EvanR> Oh yeah David Wagner he's a clojure guy
21:05:25 <erisco> weird because he talks about types in his blog :P
21:05:41 <EvanR> clojure has many types
21:05:47 <EvanR> of the java form
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21:06:06 <EvanR> checkable by the compiler even
21:06:12 <erisco> it is runtime checkde though yes?
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21:06:39 <EvanR> the process of compiling your code is some kind of halfbaked runtime-like environment so I guess yes
21:06:55 <EvanR> because lisp
21:07:16 <EvanR> it will determine if your use of java is bad
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21:08:51 <erisco> well what do I know, I never quite got lisp
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21:10:38 <EvanR> I didn't understand lisp until haskell
21:11:14 <EvanR> but didn't learn haskell until after I learned lisp
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21:15:52 <erisco> well I wanted to think him for this https://thewagner.net/blog/2021/02/25/building-container-images-with-nix/ because it is on point with what I wanted to know
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22:40:42 <wroathe> Hey guys, so I'm trying to define a typeclass that expresses that an (k :: [Type]) has a given type in the list. A "contains type" constraint. For example something like class HasB (x :: [Type]); instance HasB cs => HasB (c : cs); instance {-# OVERLAPPING #-} HasB (B : cs) seems to work, and when I do something like: test (Foo 3 :: Foo Int '[A, B, C]) where test is test :: HasB x => Bool it matches, but
22:40:48 <wroathe> '[A, C] used there results in "No instance for (HasB '[]) arising from a use of ‘test’", which makes sense because that recursive case doesn't have an '[] if it runs out of types to match against B
22:40:54 <wroathe> But what I'm wondering is if there's a better way to do this so that the constraint error makes more sense?
22:42:11 <wroathe> Or if this is really the only option for modeling on this kind of array-kinded type variable
22:44:33 <wroathe> I essentially want to make it a type error to use a type with this phantom array of types parameter that doesn't contain "B" at compile time
22:44:42 <Lears> wroathe: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.18.0.0/docs/GHC-TypeError.html#t:TypeError
22:45:22 <wroathe> Mind blown
22:45:37 <wroathe> Thanks much
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22:56:10 <wroathe> Lears: Is it normal for that to require UndecidableInstances?
22:56:16 <wroathe> ghci is complaining at me
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22:58:11 <wroathe> But yeah, with that extension enabled that works great.
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23:12:41 <Lears> If the TypeError constraint is "big" and the bad instance head is "small", then yeah, same old.
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23:13:37 <geekosaur> whoops
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All times are in UTC on 2023-09-06.