Home liberachat/#haskell: Logs Calendar

Logs on 2023-09-10 (liberachat/#haskell)

00:00:55 × artem quits (~artem@172.58.147.188) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
00:01:17 <jackdk> I don't think it's that simple. That TypeData appears only in `template-haskell-2.20.0.0`, but `th-abstraction` re-exports the type and claims compatibility with `template-haskell >=2.5 && <2.22`
00:01:55 <jackdk> goober: you may need to update GHC to a version which ships `template-haskell >=2.20.0.0`; try GHC 9.6.1 per https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/commentary/libraries/version-history
00:04:47 jmdaemon joins (~jmdaemon@user/jmdaemon)
00:05:01 × arahael quits (~arahael@119-18-1-27.771201.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
00:05:34 arahael joins (~arahael@119-18-1-27.771201.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net)
00:05:45 <goober> i had allow-newer on globally like a doofus, so it's fixed now
00:06:06 <goober> thanks for taking the trouble
00:06:36 × emmanuelux_ quits (~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux) (Quit: au revoir)
00:06:39 bratwurst joins (~blaadsfa@2604:3d09:207f:f650:216:3eff:fe5a:a1f8)
00:10:31 × arahael quits (~arahael@119-18-1-27.771201.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
00:15:48 × caryhartline quits (~caryhartl@168.182.58.169) (Quit: caryhartline)
00:18:14 × Tuplanolla quits (~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-236.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.)
00:20:55 arahael joins (~arahael@119-18-1-27.771201.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net)
00:20:59 caryhartline joins (~caryhartl@168.182.58.169)
00:22:57 × hrberg quits (~quassel@171.79-160-161.customer.lyse.net) (Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
00:26:02 × arahael quits (~arahael@119-18-1-27.771201.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
00:27:26 × goober quits (~goober@90-231-13-185-no3430.tbcn.telia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
00:27:55 goober joins (~goober@90-231-13-185-no3430.tbcn.telia.com)
00:29:21 × goober quits (~goober@90-231-13-185-no3430.tbcn.telia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
00:30:30 goober joins (~goober@90-231-13-185-no3430.tbcn.telia.com)
00:34:40 × renegade quits (~renegade@bcdcac82.skybroadband.com) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
00:36:03 arahael joins (~arahael@119-18-1-27.771201.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net)
00:40:47 × arahael quits (~arahael@119-18-1-27.771201.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
00:43:06 × caryhartline quits (~caryhartl@168.182.58.169) (Quit: caryhartline)
00:47:29 arahael joins (~arahael@119-18-1-27.771201.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net)
00:49:35 × ncf quits (~n@monade.li) (Server closed connection)
00:49:53 ncf joins (~n@monade.li)
00:51:03 × waleee quits (~waleee@2001:9b0:21c:4000:5bf9:6515:c030:57b7) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
00:52:22 × arahael quits (~arahael@119-18-1-27.771201.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
00:56:14 Guest12 joins (~Guest12@187.83.249.216.dyn.smithville.net)
00:59:03 arahael joins (~arahael@119-18-1-27.771201.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net)
01:00:31 × Luj quits (~Luj@2a01:e0a:5f9:9681:fdb9:f3db:714b:2596) (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds))
01:00:49 Luj joins (~Luj@2a01:e0a:5f9:9681:5880:c9ff:fe9f:3dfb)
01:07:03 × arahael quits (~arahael@119-18-1-27.771201.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
01:11:10 <albet70> glguy , scheme
01:12:48 × Guest12 quits (~Guest12@187.83.249.216.dyn.smithville.net) (Quit: Client closed)
01:13:48 machinedgod joins (~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net)
01:15:36 × wroathe quits (~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
01:31:13 × segfaultfizzbuzz quits (~segfaultf@12.172.217.142) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
01:32:01 <glguy> Scheme?
01:32:57 × myme quits (~myme@2a01:799:d60:e400:fbb2:2d0:8727:55f2) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
01:33:50 myme joins (~myme@2a01:799:d60:e400:523a:264f:abbd:410)
01:34:56 wroathe joins (~wroathe@207-153-38-140.fttp.usinternet.com)
01:34:56 × wroathe quits (~wroathe@207-153-38-140.fttp.usinternet.com) (Changing host)
01:34:56 wroathe joins (~wroathe@user/wroathe)
01:36:42 × hololeap quits (~quassel@user/hololeap) (Server closed connection)
01:36:57 aforemny joins (~aforemny@2001:9e8:6cde:5000:5534:fac8:77b3:48c8)
01:36:59 hololeap joins (~quassel@user/hololeap)
01:37:27 × aforemny_ quits (~aforemny@2001:9e8:6cc4:ca00:285c:4ef6:5a4b:f825) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
01:49:51 × otto_s quits (~user@p4ff27ce7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
01:50:10 × privacy quits (~privacy@47.219.84.6) (Remote host closed the connection)
01:51:41 otto_s joins (~user@p5de2f4a4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
01:57:39 <albet70> glguy , yes, others are ok too
01:59:53 <monochrom> EvanR: Maximum compatibility: sqrt ( 2 ) >:)
02:00:04 <monochrom> Space, the final delimiter.
02:02:48 <glguy> albet70: If you're asking about examples, a simpler one is https://github.com/glguy/toml-parser/tree/main/src/Toml and a more complicated one is https://github.com/glguy/language-lua/tree/master/src/Language/Lua/Annotated
02:03:04 <glguy> but originally I was wondering what kind of questions it was that you had about either of the tools
02:03:44 <glguy> The .x files in those directories are lexers using Alex and the .y files are parsers using Happy
02:04:16 segfaultfizzbuzz joins (~segfaultf@12.172.217.142)
02:04:51 × FinnElija quits (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
02:04:51 <ddellacosta> does this (https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/proposal/) predate the github site (https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pulls)? I see some things have been updated fairly recently but it's not clear to me if stuff gets moved over or what the relationship is
02:04:59 × bratwurst quits (~blaadsfa@2604:3d09:207f:f650:216:3eff:fe5a:a1f8) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
02:07:09 FinnElija joins (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643)
02:12:19 × aaronv quits (~aaronv@user/aaronv) (Quit: Leaving)
02:14:38 <albet70> glguy , just want to learn something about how to make a simple languages, curiousty
02:15:26 nate2 joins (~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
02:15:59 <albet70> glguy , no actually question here yet :)
02:17:01 <EvanR> https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Write_Yourself_a_Scheme_in_48_Hours
02:28:13 airpods69 joins (~airpods69@2401:4900:5d2c:4291:8264:669:6b0d:9b9b)
02:29:11 × AlexZenon quits (~alzenon@178.34.160.172) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
02:30:22 × Alex_test quits (~al_test@178.34.160.172) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
02:31:19 <wroathe> Hey guys, experimenting with type families and trying to define a type-level "fold" over generic field selectors. It almost works, but GHC doesn't like me supplying a type family as a type parameter to another type family. What should I be doing differently here? https://gist.github.com/JustinChristensen/59c5bccd8c5a57f86c76411b26f6aa71
02:33:10 AlexZenon joins (~alzenon@178.34.160.172)
02:36:02 Alex_test joins (~al_test@178.34.160.172)
02:37:04 × phma quits (~phma@2001:5b0:2144:6b88:455e:8c61:7388:36ab) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
02:41:10 phma joins (~phma@host-67-44-208-175.hnremote.net)
02:43:02 <EvanR> type synonyms in general can't be used partially applied
02:43:08 <glguy> wroathe: You'll need to provide "names" for your "functions" and then when you want to apply the function, you use an explicit "apply" type family
02:43:36 <glguy> This package has a bunch of machinery for this sort of thing https://hackage.haskell.org/package/singletons-3.0.2/docs/Data-Singletons.html
02:44:12 × farn quits (~farn@2a03:4000:7:3cd:d4ab:85ff:feeb:f505) (Server closed connection)
02:44:23 <wroathe> glguy: what do you mean by "names" for my functions? Aren't the names here FoldSel1, SelHasPk, and FoldHasPk?
02:44:30 × segfaultfizzbuzz quits (~segfaultf@12.172.217.142) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
02:44:32 farn joins (~farn@2a03:4000:7:3cd:d4ab:85ff:feeb:f505)
02:45:18 <glguy> You end up with something like: data NameOf_SelHasPk
02:45:31 <glguy> and then type family Apply2 name arg1 arg2
02:45:51 <glguy> and a type instance Apply2 NameOf_SelHasPk arg1 arg2 = SelHasPk arg1 arg2
02:46:02 <glguy> then you can pass the name to your FoldSel1 instead of the actual function
02:46:10 <wroathe> Oh I see
02:46:16 <wroathe> Awesome. Thank you.
02:46:17 <glguy> FoldSel1 f b (S1 ms a) = Apply2 f b (S1 ms a)
02:46:53 <glguy> I think they call this "firstification"
02:47:31 <wroathe> I'll look it up.
02:49:21 × td_ quits (~td@i5387093E.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
02:50:43 × airpods69 quits (~airpods69@2401:4900:5d2c:4291:8264:669:6b0d:9b9b) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
02:51:15 td_ joins (~td@i53870929.versanet.de)
02:59:26 sm joins (~sm@plaintextaccounting/sm)
03:01:43 finn_elija joins (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643)
03:01:43 × FinnElija quits (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Killed (NickServ (Forcing logout FinnElija -> finn_elija)))
03:01:43 finn_elija is now known as FinnElija
03:03:51 × sm quits (~sm@plaintextaccounting/sm) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
03:10:07 <hololeap> would a zipper tree be roughly the same as a tree that involves manually manipulating STRefs for each node, in terms of memory management, performance, etc
03:12:54 × qqq quits (~qqq@92.43.167.61) (Remote host closed the connection)
03:13:30 × aforemny quits (~aforemny@2001:9e8:6cde:5000:5534:fac8:77b3:48c8) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
03:13:30 aforemny_ joins (~aforemny@i59f516c5.versanet.de)
03:14:13 <hololeap> the zipper tree would have to walk the tree to locate the current node, but that would be O(log n) so maybe it wouldn't matter
03:15:20 segfaultfizzbuzz joins (~segfaultf@12.172.217.142)
03:17:10 sm joins (~sm@plaintextaccounting/sm)
03:18:59 × nate2 quits (~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
03:21:38 × sm quits (~sm@plaintextaccounting/sm) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
03:23:58 × rembo10 quits (~rembo10@65.108.56.133) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
03:27:41 rembo10 joins (~rembo10@main.remulis.com)
03:37:15 × geekosaur quits (~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) (Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by allbery_b)))
03:37:18 allbery_b joins (~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur)
03:37:22 haskellbridge_ joins (~haskellbr@069-135-003-034.biz.spectrum.com)
03:37:22 allbery_b is now known as geekosaur
03:37:22 × haskellbridge_ quits (~haskellbr@069-135-003-034.biz.spectrum.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
03:37:23 × haskellbridge quits (~haskellbr@069-135-003-034.biz.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
03:38:14 bilegeek_ joins (~bilegeek@16.sub-174-209-41.myvzw.com)
03:39:41 × eggplantade quits (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:18df:787d:85fc:cca8) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
03:39:54 × nek0 quits (~nek0@2a01:4f8:222:2b41::12) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
03:40:05 caryhartline joins (~caryhartl@168.182.58.169)
03:40:43 × bilegeek quits (~bilegeek@2600:1008:b066:6cf0:4183:58f7:fd04:6b0d) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
03:43:28 eggplantade joins (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:18df:787d:85fc:cca8)
03:45:57 <jackdk> hololeap: jle`'s https://hackage.haskell.org/package/mutable ?
03:51:05 sm joins (~sm@plaintextaccounting/sm)
03:53:58 nek0 joins (~nek0@2a01:4f8:222:2b41::12)
03:55:35 × sm quits (~sm@plaintextaccounting/sm) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
03:58:12 × jargon_ quits (~jargon@184.101.67.95) (Remote host closed the connection)
04:05:15 <hololeap> thanks jackdk. I didn't mention that this is one of those online challenges and it has a limited environment
04:05:52 <hololeap> still, your answer tells me that STRefs are the way to go here
04:06:33 × phma quits (~phma@host-67-44-208-175.hnremote.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
04:06:36 × tzh quits (~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
04:10:00 tzh joins (~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
04:12:12 Guest12 joins (~Guest12@187.83.249.216.dyn.smithville.net)
04:12:51 × Guest12 quits (~Guest12@187.83.249.216.dyn.smithville.net) (Client Quit)
04:16:32 superryn joins (~superryn@47.186.178.98)
04:17:32 × lambdap237 quits (~lambdap@static.167.190.119.168.clients.your-server.de) (Server closed connection)
04:17:52 lambdap237 joins (~lambdap@static.167.190.119.168.clients.your-server.de)
04:21:14 × wroathe quits (~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
04:21:35 phma joins (~phma@host-67-44-208-5.hnremote.net)
04:24:06 sm joins (~sm@plaintextaccounting/sm)
04:25:05 × segfaultfizzbuzz quits (~segfaultf@12.172.217.142) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
04:25:48 segfaultfizzbuzz joins (~segfaultf@12.172.217.142)
04:29:43 × sm quits (~sm@plaintextaccounting/sm) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
04:43:14 migas7 joins (~migas@astra4961.startdedicated.net)
04:43:28 × [itchyjunk] quits (~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
04:44:11 × migas quits (~migas@astra4961.startdedicated.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
04:44:11 migas7 is now known as migas
04:58:40 sm joins (~sm@plaintextaccounting/sm)
05:03:03 × sm quits (~sm@plaintextaccounting/sm) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
05:09:00 × segfaultfizzbuzz quits (~segfaultf@12.172.217.142) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
05:10:35 × _________ quits (~nobody@user/noodly) (Server closed connection)
05:10:58 _________ joins (~nobody@user/noodly)
05:16:00 nate2 joins (~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
05:20:43 × nate2 quits (~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
05:25:34 sm joins (~sm@plaintextaccounting/sm)
05:25:43 × machinedgod quits (~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
05:29:59 × sm quits (~sm@plaintextaccounting/sm) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
05:30:56 tromp joins (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
05:31:55 × tromp quits (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Client Quit)
05:32:06 × jle` quits (~jle`@cpe-23-240-75-236.socal.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
05:34:19 jle` joins (~jle`@cpe-23-240-75-236.socal.res.rr.com)
05:44:21 sm joins (~sm@plaintextaccounting/sm)
05:44:27 takuan joins (~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be)
05:48:52 × sm quits (~sm@plaintextaccounting/sm) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
05:53:48 × g00gler quits (uid125351@id-125351.uxbridge.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
06:13:19 × bilegeek_ quits (~bilegeek@16.sub-174-209-41.myvzw.com) (Quit: Leaving)
06:19:20 tromp joins (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
06:19:33 sm joins (~sm@plaintextaccounting/sm)
06:25:27 × sm quits (~sm@plaintextaccounting/sm) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
06:26:23 × puke quits (~puke@user/puke) (Quit: puke)
06:28:05 jackneill__ joins (~Jackneill@20014C4E1E101A00E0C1D892CB4866EF.dsl.pool.telekom.hu)
06:28:21 × opqdonut quits (opqdonut@pseudo.fixme.fi) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
06:28:29 opqdonut joins (opqdonut@pseudo.fixme.fi)
06:31:00 sm joins (~sm@plaintextaccounting/sm)
06:32:11 puke joins (~puke@user/puke)
06:35:51 × leeb quits (~leeb@tk2-243-31079.vs.sakura.ne.jp) (Server closed connection)
06:36:05 leeb joins (~leeb@tk2-243-31079.vs.sakura.ne.jp)
06:38:34 acidjnk joins (~acidjnk@p200300d6e7072f8284f87a638e3ef811.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
06:40:26 × tromp quits (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
06:40:51 × eggplantade quits (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:18df:787d:85fc:cca8) (Remote host closed the connection)
06:41:50 privacy joins (~privacy@47.219.84.6)
06:42:31 gmg joins (~user@user/gehmehgeh)
06:42:51 × sm quits (~sm@plaintextaccounting/sm) (Quit: sm)
07:14:52 fendor joins (~fendor@2a02:8388:1640:be00:c785:45ab:c70:9d3f)
07:15:09 Tuplanolla joins (~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-236.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
07:18:23 eggplantade joins (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:18df:787d:85fc:cca8)
07:24:41 sinbad joins (~sinbad@user/sinbad)
07:25:18 billchenchina joins (~billchenc@103.152.35.21)
07:36:58 × fiddlerwoaroof quits (~fiddlerwo@user/fiddlerwoaroof) (Server closed connection)
07:39:35 × xff0x quits (~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:775:bab:62a6:3a1d) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
07:39:48 fiddlerwoaroof joins (~fiddlerwo@user/fiddlerwoaroof)
07:39:58 xff0x joins (~xff0x@178.255.149.135)
07:40:11 × natto17 quits (~natto@129.154.243.159) (Server closed connection)
07:41:34 natto joins (~natto@129.154.243.159)
07:42:15 × azimut quits (~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
07:52:23 [itchyjunk] joins (~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
08:05:08 × xff0x quits (~xff0x@178.255.149.135) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
08:07:11 xff0x joins (~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:9d7a:fcf5:f99f:89f2)
08:07:26 × tzh quits (~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Quit: zzz)
08:15:42 × dsrt^ quits (~cd@c-66-56-7-24.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
08:16:13 × [itchyjunk] quits (~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Remote host closed the connection)
08:16:21 dsrt^ joins (~cd@c-66-56-7-24.hsd1.ga.comcast.net)
08:21:58 × sinbad quits (~sinbad@user/sinbad) (Quit: Leaving.)
08:23:36 coot joins (~coot@89-69-206-216.dynamic.chello.pl)
08:29:44 × hpc quits (~juzz@ip98-169-35-163.dc.dc.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
08:30:11 tromp joins (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
08:31:48 hpc joins (~juzz@ip98-169-35-163.dc.dc.cox.net)
08:32:12 _ht joins (~Thunderbi@28-52-174-82.ftth.glasoperator.nl)
08:42:27 × stiell_ quits (~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
08:44:39 haskellbridge joins (~haskellbr@069-135-003-034.biz.spectrum.com)
08:56:22 Unicorn_Princess joins (~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542)
08:56:28 stiell_ joins (~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell)
09:05:47 × tromp quits (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
09:08:56 × Sciencentistguy quits (~sciencent@hacksoc/ordinary-member) (Quit: o/)
09:11:46 Sciencentistguy joins (~sciencent@hacksoc/ordinary-member)
09:17:40 nate2 joins (~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
09:22:50 × nate2 quits (~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
09:47:03 tromp joins (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
10:06:09 × Sgeo quits (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
10:09:44 × Unicorn_Princess quits (~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) (Remote host closed the connection)
10:13:27 emmanuelux joins (~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux)
10:13:32 × powderhorn quits (~powderhor@207-153-12-54.static.fttp.usinternet.com) (Quit: Client closed)
10:17:18 fweht joins (uid404746@id-404746.lymington.irccloud.com)
10:27:08 merijn joins (~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl)
10:30:37 × kronicma1 quits (user98083@neotame.csclub.uwaterloo.ca) (Server closed connection)
10:30:57 kronicma1 joins (user9783@neotame.csclub.uwaterloo.ca)
10:33:12 × privacy quits (~privacy@47.219.84.6) (Quit: Leaving)
10:37:42 renegade joins (~renegade@bcdcac82.skybroadband.com)
10:57:38 × malte quits (~malte@mal.tc) (Remote host closed the connection)
11:01:22 × mrmr1 quits (~mrmr@user/mrmr) (Quit: Bye, See ya later!)
11:06:16 mrmr15 joins (~mrmr@user/mrmr)
11:08:19 emmanuelux_ joins (~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux)
11:08:20 × emmanuelux quits (~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
11:08:27 × merijn quits (~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
11:10:22 × acidjnk quits (~acidjnk@p200300d6e7072f8284f87a638e3ef811.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
11:11:22 acidjnk joins (~acidjnk@p200300d6e7072f82d0f1ef0a895f1309.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
11:11:23 × tromp quits (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
11:21:29 tromp joins (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
11:32:24 azimut joins (~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut)
11:33:13 blomberg joins (~default_u@59.99.25.95)
11:33:35 <blomberg> f 2 = 3; f n = f (n-1) ; it works fine
11:33:53 <blomberg> f n = f (n-1) ; f 2 = 3 ; -- doesn't
11:33:54 × fendor quits (~fendor@2a02:8388:1640:be00:c785:45ab:c70:9d3f) (Remote host closed the connection)
11:34:06 <blomberg> pattern matching is redundant
11:34:25 arahael joins (~arahael@119-18-1-27.771201.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net)
11:35:16 <blomberg> changing order does matter here, but not elsewhere where i can just use a function first later define
11:35:17 fendor joins (~fendor@2a02:8388:1640:be00:c785:45ab:c70:9d3f)
11:35:32 merijn joins (~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl)
11:38:48 × emmanuelux_ quits (~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
11:38:49 _leo___ joins (~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux)
11:44:39 × barrucadu quits (~barrucadu@carcosa.barrucadu.co.uk) (Server closed connection)
11:44:54 barrucadu joins (~barrucadu@carcosa.barrucadu.co.uk)
11:47:43 random-jellyfish joins (~random-je@user/random-jellyfish)
11:49:09 <Axman6> blomberg: the order of cases always matters, they are tested top to bottom
11:50:53 <blomberg> then what's decides it's invalid f 2 ; 2 is a constant so ya it's redundant ; but with multiple arguments it's messy
11:53:24 <Axman6> I'm not sure I understand the question, can you give an example of what's confusing you?
11:56:36 <probie> pattern matching in Haskell doesn't require mutually exclusive patterns, and whilst this can be useful it does mean that an ordering is required, and the order in which they appear in the code was is a fairly intuitive ordering to choose
11:57:11 <[Leary]> blomberg: GHC is just warning you that the `f 2` case is unreachable, because the `f n` case always matches.
11:57:48 <probie> % :set -Wall
11:57:48 <yahb2> <no output>
11:58:12 <probie> % f n = f (n-1); f 2 = 3
11:58:13 <yahb2> <interactive>:61:16: warning: [-Woverlapping-patterns] ; Pattern match is redundant ; In an equation for ‘f’: f 2 = ...
11:58:26 <probie> % f n | n /= 2 = f (n-1); f 2 = 3
11:58:26 <yahb2> <interactive>:63:1: error: [-Wname-shadowing, -Werror=name-shadowing] ; This binding for ‘f’ shadows the existing binding ; defined at <interactive>:61:1 ; ; <interactive>:63:1: warning:...
11:59:40 × merijn quits (~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
12:01:18 <probie> I should have picked a different name for the second one to avoid the shadowing warning.
12:01:37 <probie> If you want the "general" case first, you need to explicitly exclude `2`. This is rarely done, because whilst in this case, GHC can infer that `f n | n /= 2 = ...` and `f 2 = ...` is exhaustive, for more complex things, it's not that smart
12:02:48 emmanuelux_ joins (~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux)
12:04:01 <blomberg> but it guards it matters, but it falls through
12:04:06 <blomberg> ?
12:05:48 × _leo___ quits (~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
12:06:24 <[Leary]> probie: GHC can't infer that even in this simple case.
12:09:25 danza__ joins (~francesco@151.37.225.16)
12:13:14 merijn joins (~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl)
12:15:22 × superryn quits (~superryn@47.186.178.98) (Quit: leaving)
12:16:52 <probie> % g n | n /= 2 = g (n-1); g 2 = 3
12:16:52 <yahb2> <interactive>:65:1: error: [-Wname-shadowing, -Werror=name-shadowing] ; This binding for ‘g’ shadows the existing binding ; defined at <interactive>:39:1 ; ; <interactive>:65:1: warning:...
12:17:51 × merijn quits (~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
12:18:42 × danza__ quits (~francesco@151.37.225.16) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
12:20:02 × gnyeki_ quits (~gnyeki@user/gnyeki) (Server closed connection)
12:20:11 gnyeki joins (~gnyeki@li578-216.members.linode.com)
12:20:11 × gnyeki quits (~gnyeki@li578-216.members.linode.com) (Changing host)
12:20:11 gnyeki joins (~gnyeki@user/gnyeki)
12:20:59 <probie> [Leary]: huh, you're right. My memory must be playing tricks on me, because I thought it used to.
12:23:23 harveypwca joins (~harveypwc@2601:246:c180:a570:41a8:a837:a4a7:bda1)
12:24:47 wootehfoot joins (~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot)
12:34:14 × harveypwca quits (~harveypwc@2601:246:c180:a570:41a8:a837:a4a7:bda1) (Quit: Leaving)
12:46:03 <blomberg> https://tio.run/##y0gszk7Nyfn/P10hUcFWIZGrwtbUgCsNyEkCcqOrdCpiuRQUyjNSi1KBtEa6gpEmkK6wNTQGUlW2QIEKkABXbmJmHlBDQVFmXomCRpqCkYKxJtf//wA
12:46:47 <blomberg> it says parse error { where (g 2) ; z= ...} inside where i made a funcall without binding
12:49:41 merijn joins (~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl)
12:49:59 <blomberg> what about in guards --- does order there exist
12:51:57 _leo___ joins (~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux)
12:52:02 × emmanuelux_ quits (~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
12:54:41 × merijn quits (~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
12:54:52 <blomberg> i checked in guards order matters
12:55:22 × Adran quits (~adran@botters/adran) (Server closed connection)
12:56:49 privacy joins (~privacy@47.219.84.6)
12:57:02 Adran joins (~adran@botters/adran)
13:03:39 × billchenchina quits (~billchenc@103.152.35.21) (Remote host closed the connection)
13:04:21 <blomberg> can i use guards later or do guards have to begin alongside function def
13:04:34 <blomberg> f a b |.... |.... |....
13:04:39 billchenchina joins (~billchenc@2a0c:b641:7a2:320:ee3e:47ca:6070:d71a)
13:04:57 <blomberg> f a b = .... ;then; |....|....|....
13:05:49 × billchenchina quits (~billchenc@2a0c:b641:7a2:320:ee3e:47ca:6070:d71a) (Max SendQ exceeded)
13:06:04 <blomberg> f a b |...|...|... where .... ; is this the same as immediately above line
13:06:31 billchenchina joins (~billchenc@2a0c:b641:7a2:320:ee3e:47ca:6070:d71a)
13:15:03 <blomberg> i checked itworks
13:19:05 × ddellacosta quits (~ddellacos@ool-44c738de.dyn.optonline.net) (Quit: WeeChat 4.0.3)
13:19:35 nate2 joins (~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
13:22:21 × jmdaemon quits (~jmdaemon@user/jmdaemon) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
13:22:35 ddellacosta joins (~ddellacos@ool-44c738de.dyn.optonline.net)
13:24:39 × nate2 quits (~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
13:25:26 × _leo___ quits (~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
13:25:48 _leo___ joins (~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux)
13:37:39 <blomberg> if i use infinite recursion somehow haskell detects that and throws and error before hand
13:37:47 <blomberg> even in the compile step
13:40:27 × adium_ quits (adium@user/adium) (Server closed connection)
13:41:47 adium joins (adium@user/adium)
13:48:42 × FinnElija quits (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
13:50:03 × Guest3051 quits (sid1055@id-1055.tinside.irccloud.com) (Server closed connection)
13:50:31 Guest3051 joins (sid1055@id-1055.tinside.irccloud.com)
13:51:23 FinnElija joins (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643)
13:53:54 merijn joins (~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl)
13:56:28 wroathe joins (~wroathe@50.205.197.50)
13:56:28 × wroathe quits (~wroathe@50.205.197.50) (Changing host)
13:56:28 wroathe joins (~wroathe@user/wroathe)
13:58:56 segfaultfizzbuzz joins (~segfaultf@12.172.217.142)
13:59:03 × merijn quits (~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
14:00:18 emmanuelux_ joins (~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux)
14:02:50 × _leo___ quits (~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
14:03:49 <jackdk> blomberg: a thunk being evaluated is replaced with a special blackhole value, and trying to evaluate a blackhole raises an error, I think
14:07:34 × driib quits (~driib@vmi931078.contaboserver.net) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
14:09:49 <geekosaur> it does not detect it at compile time though
14:10:34 <c_wraith> people using GHCI sometimes are unclear on which phase an expression failed to evaluate.
14:10:48 × segfaultfizzbuzz quits (~segfaultf@12.172.217.142) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
14:12:38 driib joins (~driib@vmi931078.contaboserver.net)
14:13:11 × stites quits (~stites@130.44.147.204) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
14:14:13 stites joins (~stites@2607:fb91:dc1:c1b2:fd69:88e3:841c:3a75)
14:16:47 segfaultfizzbuzz joins (~segfaultf@12.172.217.142)
14:17:39 <EvanR> basically a reentrant detector
14:18:42 × ulysses4ever quits (~artem@c-73-103-90-145.hsd1.in.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
14:20:54 ulysses4ever joins (~artem@73.145.242.81)
14:28:05 × tromp quits (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
14:30:53 _leo___ joins (~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux)
14:33:23 × emmanuelux_ quits (~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
14:37:40 × Fischmiep quits (~Fischmiep@user/Fischmiep) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
14:41:18 merijn joins (~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl)
14:46:19 Fischmiep joins (~Fischmiep@user/Fischmiep)
14:50:00 notzmv joins (~zmv@user/notzmv)
14:57:03 Lycurgus joins (~juan@user/Lycurgus)
14:57:28 kuribas joins (~user@ptr-17d51epsjevad8bnj8t.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be)
14:59:17 × wroathe quits (~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
15:00:18 emmanuelux_ joins (~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux)
15:03:09 × _leo___ quits (~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
15:05:16 [itchyjunk] joins (~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
15:06:15 wroathe joins (~wroathe@50.205.197.50)
15:06:15 × wroathe quits (~wroathe@50.205.197.50) (Changing host)
15:06:15 wroathe joins (~wroathe@user/wroathe)
15:08:59 artem joins (~artem@c-73-103-90-145.hsd1.in.comcast.net)
15:09:36 × kuribas quits (~user@ptr-17d51epsjevad8bnj8t.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection)
15:10:40 sm joins (~sm@plaintextaccounting/sm)
15:11:44 × ulysses4ever quits (~artem@73.145.242.81) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
15:13:22 Unicorn_Princess joins (~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542)
15:15:33 × merijn quits (~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
15:20:50 × pavonia quits (~user@user/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!)
15:25:50 _leo___ joins (~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux)
15:28:42 × emmanuelux_ quits (~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
15:31:28 <wroathe> Hey guys, over the last week I've been playing around with type families. I've got two sets of type families that let me assert that a condition is true about a type, and then extract a specific Symbol from a type if it exists (or typeerror). Via GHCI both seem to be working great, but I'm now having trouble connecting them up via symbolVal to turn my Symbol into a String:
15:31:33 <wroathe> https://gist.github.com/JustinChristensen/7a9a356c2b963d9f0b65d6f67bc4953c#file-almostthere-hs-L84
15:32:24 <wroathe> Given that GetPk1 (Rep X) will evaluate to a symbol like "foo". How do I go about defining a function that turns that into a term or gives me the typeerror?
15:33:24 <wroathe> The error is on lines 86-91. It seems to be evaluating "early" instead of waiting until the constraint HasPrimaryKey passes
15:34:20 × Lycurgus quits (~juan@user/Lycurgus) (Quit: Tschüss)
15:34:43 <wroathe> Essentially the goal here is to make asReference2 @Foo evaluate to a String if GetPk1 (Rep Foo) is a Symbol, or to make asReference2 @Bar a TypeError if GetPk1 (Rep Bar) evaluates to a TypeError
15:35:04 CiaoSen joins (~Jura@2a05:5800:2d7:cc00:664b:f0ff:fe37:9ef)
15:36:57 <wroathe> You can see in the bottom comment that GetPk1 seems to be working according to spec
15:42:18 × segfaultfizzbuzz quits (~segfaultf@12.172.217.142) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
15:47:30 <[Leary]> wroathe: The implementation of TypeError as a type family has some issues, I suspect you're running into them. If you can get GHC 9.8.1alpha, try `Unsatisfiable`: https://github.com/adamgundry/ghc-proposals/blob/unsatisfiable/proposals/0000-unsatisfiable.rst
15:48:18 emmanuelux_ joins (~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux)
15:50:09 <wroathe> [Leary]: Ah. I that's a relief. I was wondering if I gravely misunderstood what I'd be able to do with type families in this context.
15:51:03 × _leo___ quits (~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
15:54:20 nate2 joins (~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
15:55:28 × sm quits (~sm@plaintextaccounting/sm) (Quit: sm)
15:57:45 Sciencentistguy7 joins (~sciencent@hacksoc/ordinary-member)
15:59:19 × nate2 quits (~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
15:59:38 × Sciencentistguy quits (~sciencent@hacksoc/ordinary-member) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
15:59:38 Sciencentistguy7 is now known as Sciencentistguy
15:59:53 kuribas joins (~user@ptr-17d51epsjevad8bnj8t.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be)
16:02:30 hrberg joins (~quassel@171.79-160-161.customer.lyse.net)
16:05:54 machinedgod joins (~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net)
16:09:34 × caryhartline quits (~caryhartl@168.182.58.169) (Quit: caryhartline)
16:11:16 <kuribas> How do you continue type inference from a type error?
16:11:24 <kuribas> Do you just start at the next known type?
16:13:17 <kuribas> Or do you just insert the "expected type".
16:13:43 × emmanuelux_ quits (~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
16:13:50 _leo___ joins (~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux)
16:14:57 <geekosaur> I think it just uses the expected type
16:15:36 <geekosaur> this would of course lead to cascading errors if it's the expected type that's wrong
16:15:43 × machinedgod quits (~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
16:15:53 <kuribas> or if the unification bound type variables?
16:16:53 <geekosaur> mm, the unification would have failed so it would have had to infer those in some other way
16:17:03 <geekosaur> which is part of why you could get a type error cascade
16:17:05 segfaultfizzbuzz joins (~segfaultf@12.172.217.142)
16:19:43 <wroathe> This "heat death" comment elicited a chuckle from me: https://youtu.be/fBFsxmJEk7M?t=3823
16:21:02 × stites quits (~stites@2607:fb91:dc1:c1b2:fd69:88e3:841c:3a75) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
16:21:24 stites joins (~stites@130.44.147.204)
16:23:37 <segfaultfizzbuzz> max entropy is probably the best method of modeling software imo
16:23:54 <mauke> who is max entropy
16:24:14 <segfaultfizzbuzz> nyuk nyuk
16:24:44 <geekosaur> "Not us, boss!"
16:26:10 <wroathe> "Yeah, this type checker we've been buildng up for decades might be a little hard to understand" -- SPJ
16:27:16 <Rembane> Good quote
16:27:32 <wroathe> I'm paraphrasing
16:27:41 <wroathe> But yeah, that's the essence of what he expressed there
16:27:46 <segfaultfizzbuzz> what are the most common ways in which types become incorrect over time
16:28:01 <kuribas> My type checker supports rankN types and arbitrary constraints.
16:28:08 <kuribas> But not (yet) GADTs.
16:29:13 <geekosaur> segfaultfizzbuzz, usually adding extra return values to deal with unforeseen problems (think that infamous TRUE/FALSE/FILE_NOT_FOUND, but for real)
16:29:28 × random-jellyfish quits (~random-je@user/random-jellyfish) (Quit: Client closed)
16:30:38 merijn joins (~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl)
16:32:32 <geekosaur> types in Haskell usually become incorrect when refactorings change them, or new cases are added to a product type
16:33:20 <EvanR> correctness decay
16:33:36 <EvanR> the halflife of types
16:34:00 <segfaultfizzbuzz> do types encapsulate correctness?
16:34:18 <segfaultfizzbuzz> no, right? as in, anything can happen
16:34:24 <segfaultfizzbuzz> maybe types need types? lol
16:34:45 <kuribas> segfaultfizzbuzz: that's what dependent types do.
16:35:07 <segfaultfizzbuzz> but then the dependent type can be wrong...?
16:35:12 <segfaultfizzbuzz> maybe we should be modeling wrongness
16:36:35 <Rembane> Sounds like tests
16:37:07 <segfaultfizzbuzz> or machine learning
16:37:26 <kuribas> segfaultfizzbuzz: yes, then you are modelling your domain wrong.
16:37:42 <segfaultfizzbuzz> inferring types from data...?
16:38:09 <kuribas> that's called type providers.
16:38:22 <kuribas> Or just dependent types.
16:38:44 <segfaultfizzbuzz> but this type annotation stuff assumes i am intelligent as a human, which is false
16:39:00 <segfaultfizzbuzz> or that i have some kind of supernatural ability to determine what is true
16:39:13 <kuribas> The data represents the domain, then the dependent type checks that the code follows the domain.
16:39:13 <EvanR> a well typed program can't go wrong--- at least it can't get stuck--- at least it's well typed
16:39:42 <EvanR> there are type systems for everything, well typed means what you want it to mean
16:40:49 <EvanR> it's like a player following the rules of the game or not. What it means depends on the game
16:42:37 random-jellyfish joins (~random-je@user/random-jellyfish)
16:43:07 <segfaultfizzbuzz> it seems like it would also be best to define routes by which a program in an incorrect state can become correct again
16:43:24 <segfaultfizzbuzz> in addition to avoiding becoming incorrect (or never becoming incorrect),
16:45:49 <EvanR> HTML did that
16:46:04 <EvanR> so people spent most of their time incorrect
16:46:39 <segfaultfizzbuzz> haha
16:46:51 <segfaultfizzbuzz> i was wondering why html doesn't have types
16:47:11 <segfaultfizzbuzz> well so maybe computers need "meaning inference", where you express incorrect stuff and the computer snaps to a "correct grid"
16:47:41 sinbad joins (~sinbad@user/sinbad)
16:47:44 <mauke> ah, DWIM
16:48:09 <mauke> pioneered by perl, turned up to 11 by php
16:48:37 <segfaultfizzbuzz> lol
16:48:39 × billchenchina quits (~billchenc@2a0c:b641:7a2:320:ee3e:47ca:6070:d71a) (Remote host closed the connection)
16:48:57 <c_wraith> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/acme-php helpful
16:51:02 <segfaultfizzbuzz> lol
16:52:51 <EvanR> if you built something to have this correct grid in place, I think you're good, you can stop
16:53:08 <segfaultfizzbuzz> "The flexibility of Haskell and the safety of PHP" lol
16:56:21 × kuribas quits (~user@ptr-17d51epsjevad8bnj8t.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection)
16:56:34 kuribas joins (~user@ptr-17d51ep7b83jc1lml0b.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be)
17:01:26 <segfaultfizzbuzz> maybe the compiler could use deep learning to go and fix the problems at the foundations of mathematics to increase the correctness of your software
17:01:32 <geekosaur> for some reason I am reminded of that question someone asked Charles Babbage
17:02:56 <EvanR> leibniz's calculus ratiocinator
17:03:42 <segfaultfizzbuzz> i am trying to find you the talk, there was an academic talk about using gradient descent to discover recursive mathematical identities
17:04:25 <EvanR> just breadth first search all formulas until you find the one that works
17:04:45 × merijn quits (~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
17:05:32 tzh joins (~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
17:05:43 <geekosaur> also I thought DWIM was pioneered by WATFIV
17:07:14 tremon joins (~tremon@83.80.159.219)
17:15:13 × random-jellyfish quits (~random-je@user/random-jellyfish) (Quit: Client closed)
17:17:11 caryhartline joins (~caryhartl@168.182.58.169)
17:22:33 Sgeo joins (~Sgeo@user/sgeo)
17:23:29 Square joins (~Square@user/square)
17:25:24 <segfaultfizzbuzz> hm, i got a good one
17:26:27 <segfaultfizzbuzz> as memory bandwidth grows it becomes increasingly difficult to directly supervise the computations which occur
17:26:57 <monochrom> "If there is no one in the forest, does the computer still do what you mean?" :)
17:28:06 <segfaultfizzbuzz> something like that,...
17:28:29 <segfaultfizzbuzz> a type, or a program invariant is an attempt at increasing how much control you have when you are not directly observing your program
17:29:09 <segfaultfizzbuzz> i mean you can directly supervise the program as in inspect the output, but then there also is the amount of control you can express
17:29:21 <segfaultfizzbuzz> in the form of a program or its constraints (types)
17:30:41 × fweht quits (uid404746@id-404746.lymington.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
17:39:38 × azimut quits (~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) (Remote host closed the connection)
17:39:41 <EvanR> I don't even see the types anymore just blonde brunette redhead
17:40:01 × eggplantade quits (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:18df:787d:85fc:cca8) (Remote host closed the connection)
17:40:20 eggplantade joins (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:18df:787d:85fc:cca8)
17:40:27 × wootehfoot quits (~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
17:42:09 habib joins (~habib@91.196.222.95)
17:42:45 trev joins (~trev@user/trev)
17:44:43 <habib> hey is the maintainer of blazeT in this room? i've filed a pr that fixes breakage due to Cabal >= 2.2 (the removal of `haddockHscolour` from `HaddockFlags`) as well as base >= 4.11 (the Monoid-Semigroup split)
17:44:47 azimut joins (~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut)
17:45:38 × fryguybob quits (~fryguybob@cpe-24-94-50-22.stny.res.rr.com) (Quit: leaving)
17:48:08 × sweater1 quits (~sweater@206.81.18.26) (Server closed connection)
17:48:29 sweater1 joins (~sweater@206.81.18.26)
17:48:46 × wroathe quits (~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
17:50:49 <segfaultfizzbuzz> .quir
17:50:51 × segfaultfizzbuzz quits (~segfaultf@12.172.217.142) (Quit: segfaultfizzbuzz)
17:55:09 × cafkafk_ quits (~cafkafk@fsf/member/cafkafk) (Remote host closed the connection)
18:00:37 cafkafk_ joins (~cafkafk@fsf/member/cafkafk)
18:02:01 aaronv joins (~aaronv@user/aaronv)
18:04:18 × trev quits (~trev@user/trev) (Quit: trev)
18:13:45 × privacy quits (~privacy@47.219.84.6) (Quit: Leaving)
18:19:56 × aaronv quits (~aaronv@user/aaronv) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
18:21:24 michalz joins (~michalz@185.246.207.221)
18:21:42 merijn joins (~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl)
18:22:01 aaronv joins (~aaronv@user/aaronv)
18:22:58 × aaronv quits (~aaronv@user/aaronv) (Client Quit)
18:27:15 trev joins (~trev@user/trev)
18:28:51 × trev quits (~trev@user/trev) (Client Quit)
18:35:46 random-jellyfish joins (~random-je@user/random-jellyfish)
18:41:18 dhil joins (~dhil@78.45.150.83.ewm.ftth.as8758.net)
18:42:28 × kuribas quits (~user@ptr-17d51ep7b83jc1lml0b.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection)
18:42:51 waleee joins (~waleee@2001:9b0:21c:4000:5bf9:6515:c030:57b7)
18:45:39 × caryhartline quits (~caryhartl@168.182.58.169) (Quit: caryhartline)
18:55:48 × merijn quits (~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
19:04:31 × driib quits (~driib@vmi931078.contaboserver.net) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
19:07:37 caryhartline joins (~caryhartl@168.182.58.169)
19:17:03 × dcoutts quits (~duncan@82-69-94-207.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) (Remote host closed the connection)
19:21:17 driib joins (~driib@vmi931078.contaboserver.net)
19:26:19 danza joins (~francesco@151.47.250.148)
19:29:27 dcoutts joins (~duncan@82-69-94-207.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk)
19:32:29 pavonia joins (~user@user/siracusa)
19:34:15 × dcoutts quits (~duncan@82-69-94-207.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
19:35:15 × todi quits (~todi@p5dca5c94.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
19:35:41 × takuan quits (~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection)
19:35:57 todi joins (~todi@p5dca5c94.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
19:38:09 sinbad parts (~sinbad@user/sinbad) ()
19:39:51 × danza quits (~francesco@151.47.250.148) (Remote host closed the connection)
19:40:13 danza joins (~francesco@151.47.250.148)
19:40:40 × integral quits (sid296274@user/integral) (Server closed connection)
19:40:54 integral joins (sid296274@user/integral)
19:41:18 × caryhartline quits (~caryhartl@168.182.58.169) (Quit: caryhartline)
19:42:53 merijn joins (~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl)
19:44:05 caryhartline joins (~caryhartl@168.182.58.169)
19:44:11 dcoutts joins (~duncan@82-69-94-207.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk)
19:47:48 × merijn quits (~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
19:48:10 × danza quits (~francesco@151.47.250.148) (Remote host closed the connection)
19:48:15 × ft quits (~ft@p4fc2ae5a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
19:49:56 ft joins (~ft@p508dbaa9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
19:55:39 × CiaoSen quits (~Jura@2a05:5800:2d7:cc00:664b:f0ff:fe37:9ef) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
19:56:05 nate2 joins (~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
20:00:06 × jackneill__ quits (~Jackneill@20014C4E1E101A00E0C1D892CB4866EF.dsl.pool.telekom.hu) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
20:00:51 × nate2 quits (~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
20:01:50 merijn joins (~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl)
20:06:29 × remedan quits (~remedan@ip-94-112-0-18.bb.vodafone.cz) (Quit: Bye!)
20:08:46 remedan joins (~remedan@ip-94-112-0-18.bb.vodafone.cz)
20:10:53 × _ht quits (~Thunderbi@28-52-174-82.ftth.glasoperator.nl) (Quit: _ht)
20:17:15 × blomberg quits (~default_u@59.99.25.95) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
20:22:29 g00gler joins (uid125351@id-125351.uxbridge.irccloud.com)
20:27:25 machinedgod joins (~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net)
20:32:08 × nadja quits (~dequbed@banana-new.kilobyte22.de) (Server closed connection)
20:32:17 nadja joins (~dequbed@banana-new.kilobyte22.de)
20:34:36 × merijn quits (~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
20:35:01 × [itchyjunk] quits (~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Remote host closed the connection)
20:36:19 <habib> hey, if anyone can help me with an issue, i'd be very grateful. i've created a pull request for a package which seems to be unmaintained (no closed prs, one issue and two open prs); the last comment by the author and maintainer was on a similar pr to the one i opened almost 3 years ago where he said, “I will try to have a look this weekend!” and then silence. i sent him an email to two addresses, but i just got an undeliverable email back, with no
20:36:19 <habib> details as to which address couldn't be reached. i am considering just publishing a form on hackage, but would like to try and get a hold of him before if i can. if anyone knows how i can do so, please direct me. his name is johannes gerer.
20:37:38 <habib> publishing a fork*
20:37:43 × acidjnk quits (~acidjnk@p200300d6e7072f82d0f1ef0a895f1309.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
20:40:18 <habib> even his website seems to have been down for a couple years, maybe 6–9 months after his last response on the pr
20:42:25 <geekosaur> if googling his name doesn't do it, I'd just ask the Hackage trustees to transfer ownership
20:47:24 cafkafk joins (~cafkafk@fsf/member/cafkafk)
20:47:27 × infinity0 quits (~infinity0@pwned.gg) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
20:49:07 infinity0 joins (~infinity0@pwned.gg)
20:49:24 × cafkafk_ quits (~cafkafk@fsf/member/cafkafk) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
20:50:34 <habib> what's the etiquette on that? seems a bit extreme to take over someone's package, though i can see the upside for people who upgrade their compiler and base versions and want a project which depends on it with no upper version bound to still work
20:52:28 <habib> also, would it be okay (or even possible) to just upload a fork first and then ask the trustees to merge the version histories if they do decide to give access to the original package?
20:57:39 falafel joins (~falafel@62.175.113.194.dyn.user.ono.com)
21:00:05 <dminuoso> habib: Taking packages over is established and official practice
21:00:28 <dminuoso> Consider, there is a package that is no longer maintained but apparently used.
21:00:38 <habib> just noticed he has some activity on GitHub this year, a little sparse, but definitely more than the preceding two years. normal amount of activity for someone who does some open source on the side
21:00:48 <dminuoso> Dont worry too much about it.
21:01:13 × waleee quits (~waleee@2001:9b0:21c:4000:5bf9:6515:c030:57b7) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
21:01:30 <dminuoso> https://wiki.haskell.org/Taking_over_a_package
21:01:41 <habib> thanks dminuoso
21:01:55 <habib> i'll take that into consideration
21:02:05 <dminuoso> habib: Note, even if you dont want to take over maintainership, they can upload a new package.
21:02:16 <dminuoso> For changes/patches you provide
21:02:20 <habib> ah, interesting
21:03:08 × falafel quits (~falafel@62.175.113.194.dyn.user.ono.com) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
21:03:09 waleee joins (~waleee@2001:9b0:21c:4000:5bf9:6515:c030:57b7)
21:05:34 <habib> dminuouso: how much time to respond would be reasonable to give them? a week? a month?
21:05:36 <dminuoso> habib: Further, taking over ownership is still not a issue either.
21:05:40 <dminuoso> habib: Read the wiki.
21:06:23 <dminuoso> habib: The reason its not an issue, is that for 1 year if the original maintainer responds, they will unconditionally get ownership back.
21:07:24 <habib> okay, and it seems like from time of announcement of intention to actual takeover, the admins will give that time. i was thinking i should wait before i announce my intent
21:07:31 <habib> but that makes sense
21:08:53 jmdaemon joins (~jmdaemon@user/jmdaemon)
21:18:34 × michalz quits (~michalz@185.246.207.221) (Remote host closed the connection)
21:22:47 × fendor quits (~fendor@2a02:8388:1640:be00:c785:45ab:c70:9d3f) (Remote host closed the connection)
21:36:01 merijn joins (~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl)
21:40:36 × merijn quits (~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
21:41:18 × infinity0 quits (~infinity0@pwned.gg) (Remote host closed the connection)
21:42:24 × gmg quits (~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Quit: Leaving)
21:43:26 infinity0 joins (~infinity0@pwned.gg)
21:48:07 × stites quits (~stites@130.44.147.204) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
21:48:21 stites joins (~stites@130.44.147.204)
21:49:05 jargon joins (~jargon@184.101.67.95)
21:50:43 malte joins (~malte@mal.tc)
21:52:57 × stites quits (~stites@130.44.147.204) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
21:53:06 stites joins (~stites@2607:fb91:dc1:d690:17dd:ae60:28fd:17ef)
21:53:25 infinity0_ joins (~infinity0@pwned.gg)
21:53:25 × infinity0 quits (~infinity0@pwned.gg) (Killed (platinum.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services)))
21:53:25 infinity0_ is now known as infinity0
22:06:12 × dcoutts quits (~duncan@82-69-94-207.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
22:09:13 × stites quits (~stites@2607:fb91:dc1:d690:17dd:ae60:28fd:17ef) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
22:09:32 stites joins (~stites@2601:19c:4180:2fa0:2f0a:960b:48ea:b731)
22:11:51 × lav quits (~pi@wikipedia/maddy-from-celeste) (Server closed connection)
22:12:09 lav joins (~pi@wikipedia/maddy-from-celeste)
22:16:00 × eggplantade quits (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:18df:787d:85fc:cca8) (Remote host closed the connection)
22:18:50 eggplantade joins (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:2861:bb9d:e03c:c139)
22:21:51 × haskl quits (~haskl@user/haskl) (Remote host closed the connection)
22:22:10 haskl joins (~haskl@user/haskl)
22:22:26 × Tuplanolla quits (~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-236.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.)
22:24:34 × Unicorn_Princess quits (~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) (Remote host closed the connection)
22:28:57 privacy joins (~privacy@47.219.84.6)
22:31:09 × coot quits (~coot@89-69-206-216.dynamic.chello.pl) (Quit: coot)
22:32:00 × caryhartline quits (~caryhartl@168.182.58.169) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
22:32:42 × Square quits (~Square@user/square) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
22:32:52 × stites quits (~stites@2601:19c:4180:2fa0:2f0a:960b:48ea:b731) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
22:33:05 stites joins (~stites@2607:fb91:dc1:d690:17dd:ae60:28fd:17ef)
22:34:22 × zero quits (~z@user/zero) (Server closed connection)
22:34:41 zero joins (~z@user/zero)
22:35:16 merijn joins (~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl)
22:39:17 ulysses4ever joins (~artem@73.145.240.137)
22:39:54 × oo_miguel quits (~Thunderbi@78-11-179-96.static.ip.netia.com.pl) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
22:40:31 × g quits (g@libera/staff/glguy) (Remote host closed the connection)
22:40:34 g joins (g@libera/staff/glguy)
22:41:59 × merijn quits (~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
22:43:30 × artem quits (~artem@c-73-103-90-145.hsd1.in.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
22:44:09 artem joins (~artem@192.31.0.5)
22:47:06 × ulysses4ever quits (~artem@73.145.240.137) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
22:49:54 × stites quits (~stites@2607:fb91:dc1:d690:17dd:ae60:28fd:17ef) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
22:50:23 stites joins (~stites@130.44.147.204)
22:54:41 merijn joins (~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl)
23:09:14 × waleee quits (~waleee@2001:9b0:21c:4000:5bf9:6515:c030:57b7) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
23:09:39 waleee joins (~waleee@2001:9b0:21c:4000:5bf9:6515:c030:57b7)
23:12:43 × NinjaTrappeur quits (~ninja@about/aquilenet/vodoo/NinjaTrappeur) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
23:15:47 chomwitt joins (~chomwitt@2a02:587:7a0c:4d00:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1)
23:18:36 Katarushisu18 joins (~Katarushi@cpc147790-finc20-2-0-cust502.4-2.cable.virginm.net)
23:19:35 × Katarushisu1 quits (~Katarushi@cpc147790-finc20-2-0-cust502.4-2.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
23:19:35 Katarushisu18 is now known as Katarushisu1
23:22:00 × chomwitt quits (~chomwitt@2a02:587:7a0c:4d00:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
23:23:31 NinjaTrappeur joins (~ninja@about/aquilenet/vodoo/NinjaTrappeur)
23:27:28 × random-jellyfish quits (~random-je@user/random-jellyfish) (Quit: Client closed)
23:28:53 × merijn quits (~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
23:29:35 sinbad joins (~sinbad@user/sinbad)
23:31:17 Guest28 joins (~Guest28@c-73-248-220-123.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
23:31:37 × dhil quits (~dhil@78.45.150.83.ewm.ftth.as8758.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
23:32:03 [itchyjunk] joins (~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
23:40:16 × Guest28 quits (~Guest28@c-73-248-220-123.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) (Quit: Client closed)
23:45:26 × sinbad quits (~sinbad@user/sinbad) (Quit: Leaving.)
23:52:17 × notzmv quits (~zmv@user/notzmv) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
23:54:43 × Lord_of_Life quits (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
23:56:25 Lord_of_Life joins (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915)
23:57:35 nate2 joins (~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
23:58:36 × arahael quits (~arahael@119-18-1-27.771201.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)

All times are in UTC on 2023-09-10.