Home liberachat/#haskell: Logs Calendar

Logs on 2023-09-25 (liberachat/#haskell)

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05:14:22 <Inst> Could I ask a brief question about State# RealWorld?
05:14:33 <Inst> This is essentially the type of a primitive; it's a zero-bit type
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05:43:46 <Axman6> Is that the question?
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06:17:29 <dminuoso> lockywolf: It depends on the version. In 3.6.0.0 it was the other way around https://hackage.haskell.org/package/Cabal-syntax-3.6.0.0
06:17:48 <dminuoso> I was just confused, because I implicitly assumed a hackage link would point at the newest version, not the oldest.
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06:20:43 <Inst_> btw, if anyone wants to solve
06:20:44 Inst_ is now known as Inst
06:20:52 <Inst> the Arch Linux problem, it seems:
06:20:58 <Inst> One, package GHCup into a pacman package
06:21:19 <Inst> Two, be a trusted user or get a trusted user to back your project, get it into pacman
06:21:23 <Inst> Three, problem solved.
06:21:36 <Inst> Not doing it myself, got other fish to fry
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08:10:07 <KBar> hello! how does `toInt :: [Integer] -> Integer \n toInt (x:xs) = x` match `toInt [42]`? is it because `xs` is an empty list [] here?
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08:28:00 <ncf> [42] = 42:[]
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08:46:55 <danse-nr3_> good monday #haskell
08:47:15 <sshine> good haskell monday!
08:47:40 <danse-nr3_> :P
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09:04:44 <Inst> tosmeding: when you're free, can I ask some questions about accelerate?
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09:31:29 <Inst> tomsmeding, I mean :(
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09:55:54 <kuribas> Accelerate looks pretty nice, are there industrial users of this library?
09:57:19 <kuribas> I'll be using the cpu backend, so I guess I am safe then...
09:57:40 <kuribas> I wonder how it compares to libraries in other languages.
09:57:44 <kuribas> There is numba...
09:59:29 <kuribas> tomsmeding: what about the cuda driver?
09:59:38 <kuribas> Does it also crash?
10:03:45 <[exa]> "compares" as in speed or crash rates? :D
10:04:03 <[exa]> anyway I believe there are some benchmarks online against much bigger beasts than numba
10:04:39 <kuribas> [exa]: which beasts? :-P
10:04:53 <kuribas> both speed and crash rates :)
10:05:02 <kuribas> preferably crash rate of 0.
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10:12:35 <kuribas> A timeseries database using accelerate could possibly outperform any existing databases.
10:12:53 <kuribas> For example, questDB has simd optimization, but it only works for a select number of functions.
10:13:13 <kuribas> accelerate can theoretically optimize any associative aggregation function.
10:13:14 <Inst> Accelerate can't generate C code, right? It's generating CUDA
10:13:30 <Inst> for a while, I was suspecting that Tesla was using Accelerate for their embedded device code generation
10:14:39 <kuribas> Inst: it can generate llvm IR.
10:15:45 <Inst> I'd just be a big coup if Tesla was just using accelerate, though
10:15:57 <kuribas> Inst: what makes you suspect that?
10:16:36 <Athas> Microsoft had a product or library or something that was also called Accelerate. Maybe they used that.
10:16:48 <Inst> The cant around the community is that, at least for a while, Tesla was using Haskell to generate C code for embedded devices
10:17:00 <Inst> but using the Haskell side to ensure type safety and domain-encoding
10:17:15 <Athas> They probably were not using Accelerate for that, but maybe something like copilot.
10:17:33 <kuribas> Accelerate is very limited to array computations.
10:17:44 <Athas> Accelerate generates C/LLVM/PTX code, but it has to execute it immediately. It's a JIT compiler and I don't think you can remove the generated code from the Accelerate/Haskell runtime environment.
10:17:46 <Inst> They might have had a custom solution, then.
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10:18:08 <Inst> Copilot I think is more unnlikely, unless you can use it for Haskell to C compilation
10:18:16 <Inst> Or maybe they might just be using the old C backend
10:19:02 <kuribas> Athas: that doesn't seem hard to circumvent.
10:19:17 <int-e> "something on top of language-c" seems more likely than accelerate. But something entirely homegrown is equally likely.
10:19:58 <Athas> kuribas: maybe not, but you'll be losing the main advantage of Accelerate (the very smooth integration with normal Haskell code).
10:21:07 <kuribas> Yeah, my idea is to create a DSL to that uses accelerate to JIT compile timeseries at runtime.
10:21:20 <Inst> https://serokell.io/blog/top-software-written-in-haskell#:~:text=Tesla%20has%20been%20regularly%20hiring,then%20compiled%20into%20vehicle%20firmware.
10:22:26 <int-e> or, if Haskell is indeed the source language here, there are a handful of other Haskell compilers that they could potentially adapt
10:22:54 <int-e> speculating on the basis of, basically, two keywords isn't particularly reliable
10:23:21 <Athas> There are several Haskell libraries/eDSLs for generating C code. It's overwhelmingly likely that Tesla is using those or their own variant. It's a well-studied and well-working niche.
10:24:49 <Inst> You're right, it's probably copilot, I got confused with Github copilot
10:25:48 <kuribas> I also wonder if date aggregations (group_by) in python are using SIMD.
10:26:18 <Athas> itertools.groupby, almost certainly not.
10:26:30 <Athas> But I'd expect the various Numpy-adjacent libraries do so.
10:26:45 <kuribas> Athas: https://pandas.pydata.org/docs/reference/api/pandas.DataFrame.groupby.html
10:27:33 <Athas> Turns out that function just treats and returns a lazy object.
10:28:30 <kuribas> maybe this one then: https://pandas.pydata.org/docs/reference/api/pandas.DataFrame.resample.html#pandas.DataFrame.resample
10:28:59 <kuribas> It returns an object, on which you need to specify the aggregation.
10:29:26 <kuribas> Of course using a python lambda is incredibly slow.
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10:41:08 <Hecate> jocke-l:
10:41:11 <Hecate> oops!
10:41:11 <Hecate> sorry
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11:52:31 <Guest46> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/fUZTUfaM
11:52:49 <Guest46> Is it possible to make MyArry a part of BasicType without losing the ability to limit the types that MyArray can contain?
11:54:49 <Guest46> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/Ek2N4sQk
11:54:51 <Guest46> the first one is wrong
11:55:16 <[exa]> Guest46: you may make a generic constructor that only accepts stuff that's in a certain typeclass
11:55:32 <[exa]> then you decide with the typeclass on what values can be contained (and how they would be interpreted)
11:56:20 <[exa]> (also cf. here https://wiki.haskell.org/Existential_type )
12:00:59 <Inst> btw, how idiomatic is (a `binaryFunction` b) in haskell?
12:01:10 <Inst> I use the idiom a lot, I'm wondering to what extent it makes things more readable or if it's just me codegolfing
12:01:47 <Inst> definitely if the binaryFunction was named as a transitive verb, it'd make sense, but could also be confusing
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12:19:29 <Logio> It's good when it makes things more readable and bad when it makes them less readable. It's not like you can't have better readable alias for the non-operator use
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12:56:30 <danse-nr3_> i keep slippering down the slope, now i start thinking it would be nice to have $ for types
12:58:18 <Rembane> danse-nr3_: So you don't have to write as many parentheses in the hairier type definitions?
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12:58:55 <danse-nr3_> :P
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13:00:28 <danse-nr3_> well it's HasMap a (HasMap b (HashMap c)) ... hairy, but kind of easy to figure out
13:00:53 <danse-nr3_> oops i wanted to write `HashMap c d` at the end
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13:23:31 <danse-nr3_> :t foldr
13:23:32 <lambdabot> Foldable t => (a -> b -> b) -> b -> t a -> b
13:25:05 <danse-nr3_> @hoogle a -> t (a -> a) -> a
13:25:06 <lambdabot> No results found
13:25:23 <danse-nr3_> seems handy
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13:33:59 <jackdk> :t foldr ($)
13:34:00 <lambdabot> Foldable t => a -> t (a -> a) -> a
13:34:23 <jackdk> it's an idiom which shows up a lot in frp-ish code
13:35:56 <danse-nr3_> nice, i had:
13:36:03 <danse-nr3_> :t foldr (.) id
13:36:04 <lambdabot> Foldable t => t (b -> b) -> b -> b
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13:43:23 <c_wraith> note that `foldr ($)' isn't stack-efficient.
13:44:32 <c_wraith> at least, not if the operation is strict.
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13:44:59 <c_wraith> (it's great if several functions in the list are non-strict)
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13:49:43 <danse-nr3_> yeah, worth reminding, and probably a good reason not to have this wrapped into another function which would make the `foldr` less visible
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13:55:03 <haskellbridge> <m​auke> type a :$ b = a b
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13:55:45 <danse-nr3_> >:-D
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14:48:16 <Inst> Btw, anyone else watching NeoHaskell? It's quite entertaining, from a guy who claims he can build a simple Haskell Android app in 2 hours.
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15:10:46 <sshine> I've never heard about it.
15:12:23 <sshine> it looks like a cool ambition. I can't see exactly how this dialect is embedded, but the installation instructions ask you to install the usual Haskell tools.
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15:12:54 <sshine> I wonder if they address most of their goals via an alternative standard library.
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16:10:42 <famubu> Hi. Is the GADTs extension enabled by default in ghc?
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16:14:50 <danse-nr3_> i don't think so
16:16:26 <ddellacosta> famubu: with GHC2021 it is https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/users_guide/exts/control.html?highlight=#extension-GHC2021
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16:19:44 <danse-nr3_> thanks ddellacosta, did not know off the top of my head
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16:20:58 <famubu> Thanks.
16:21:55 <famubu> Is there a place where the list of ghc extension can be found?
16:22:04 <famubu> I was looking for DataKinds. Closest found was https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/users_guide/exts/type_data.html
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16:23:02 <geekosaur> https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/9.6.2/docs/users_guide/exts/data_kinds.html
16:23:47 <geekosaur> I don't think the users guide has a simple index of extensions but `ghc --supported-languages` will list them without descriptions
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16:24:31 <mauke> https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/users_guide/exts/table.html
16:25:37 <famubu> +1
16:25:56 <famubu> Is there a way to know which extensions are enable by default as well?
16:27:45 <mauke> https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/users_guide/exts/control.html
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16:38:20 <famubu> Ah.. okay.
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17:09:02 <gensyst> In your experiences, would a slice (Vector) be substantially faster than drop&take (ByteString)? Both methods are O(1), but I wonder if vector will still be quite faster, esp. if each bytestring or vector is small (around 200 bytes)
17:09:29 <geekosaur> ByteString does slices too
17:09:52 <geekosaur> iirc drop and take in particular use slices
17:10:41 <gensyst> each bytestring is only 160 bytes, consisting of 8 serialized doubles. i have zillions of these small bytestrings. wanna split&deserialize as fast as possible.
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17:11:32 <gensyst> i'm finding the bytestring slicing takes substantial time, although the deserialization is the main overhead
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17:23:13 <dminuoso> gensyst: What does "slicing" mean to you exactly?
17:23:52 <dminuoso> Merely taking offset/length slices is O(1) because no allocations occur.
17:23:54 <gensyst> dminuoso, get a substring at index,length
17:23:59 <dminuoso> Okay, thats O(1).
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17:24:38 <EvanR> you still might need to allocate a new ByteString constructor to hold the new offset length
17:24:56 <dminuoso> gensyst: A ByteString is literally just a pointer into raw memory and some length. `take` just adjusts the pointer and length accordingly.
17:26:08 <dminuoso> gensyst: If you have maximum deserialization performance requirements, look no further than flatparse.
17:27:55 <Inst_> @sshine
17:27:55 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
17:28:01 <Inst_> looks like it's an alt prelude project right now
17:28:30 <Inst_> I'm just waiting to see if he can deliver, supposedly he has most of a "Haskell-based Android app in 2 hours or your money back" lib ready
17:30:39 <exarkun> Inst_: You know reflex-platform also supports Android?
17:30:55 <exarkun> and supposedly iOS, though I haven't tried that myself
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17:31:31 <Inst_> iirc reflex is bound to 8.6 or 8.8
17:32:56 <exarkun> it's at least at 8.10
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17:33:40 <exarkun> https://github.com/reflex-frp/reflex-platform/blob/develop/ChangeLog.md#v1100 8.10.7 out of the box
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17:35:39 <Inst_> Yeah but goodbye 9.0.x
17:35:52 <Inst_> And from what I've been told, Reflex is a pain to learn
17:36:07 <Inst_> It seems Obsidian was selling support and guidance for Reflex FRP, so...
17:36:29 <exarkun> I'm not trying to convince you that Reflex is the perfect solution, but you were making a big point about Haskell on Android so it seemed worth mentioning.
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17:36:53 <EvanR> don't let people tell you what is or isn't hard to learn
17:37:08 <EvanR> that's serious external locus of control
17:37:13 <exarkun> (also I've written Reflex apps and I'm certainly no wizard...)
17:38:03 <exarkun> at some level Reflex is "just" React carried all the way, for Haskell. Everyone loves React, don't they?
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17:39:05 <EvanR> uhg
17:39:46 <Inst_> I guess what I'm really scared of is downloading 8.10.7 knowing that it's ancient
17:39:53 <Inst_> Even though I've used that before
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17:42:05 <EvanR> it's a common mistake, thinking writing haskell programs for android will be simple and straightforward to set up
17:42:25 <probie> 25 months old is not ancient
17:43:15 <EvanR> seriously though ghcup makes it easy to use an old ghc
17:43:24 <EvanR> so that's not what you should be worried about
17:43:34 <Inst_> Also, at the time, I was on Windows, and I was there when someone contacted Obsidian guys
17:43:57 <Inst_> and got them to patch in allowing Windows to install, albeit unsupported
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18:23:41 <gensyst> dminuoso, thanks fort he flatparse reco
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18:38:20 <mauke> https://mastodon.online/@barubary@infosec.exchange/111126547004622373
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18:44:13 <erisco> mauke, well, the report says the compiler is wrong https://www.haskell.org/onlinereport/exps.html#sections
18:44:23 <erisco> or the report says the report is inconsistent
18:44:44 <geekosaur> I think it's documented that ghc doesn't quite follow the report there as an optimization?
18:45:49 <mauke> that's Haskell 98, though
18:46:03 erisco wishes he could have problems working on complex production applications written in Haskell
18:46:15 <erisco> is there a newer report?
18:46:22 <mauke> https://www.haskell.org/onlinereport/haskell2010/haskellch3.html#x8-300003.5
18:46:34 <mauke> no difference :-)
18:47:42 <EvanR> that's really annoying
18:47:59 <EvanR> how does the monad know
18:48:11 <erisco> I dunno which ghc version is being used but here's 9.0.1 https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/9.0.1/docs/html/users_guide/bugs.html#operator-sections
18:48:27 <geekosaur> it's either lazier or stricter than H98 specifies, I forget which
18:48:53 <mauke> https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/users_guide/exts/rebindable_syntax.html#postfix-operators
18:48:54 <EvanR> exactly what in the spec are we talking about
18:49:07 <EvanR> >> ?
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18:49:31 <erisco> Though, their nonstandard exception indicates the eta-reduced form should have worked
18:49:53 <erisco> I mean should not have worked :P
18:50:59 <erisco> EvanR, the only thing of interest appears to be the operator section
18:51:12 <geekosaur> EvanR, I think we're talking about an operator section being identical to its eta-expanded form per the Report, but in ghc it's not? Not any particular operator, except insofar as the resulting different strictness might alter the strictness of a monad's bind and by extension `>>`
18:52:11 <geekosaur> And `fix` will be very sensitive to (lack of) laziness
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18:52:16 <erisco> I'll assume the instance isn't undefined because that seems rather unlikely, given that one version "works"
18:53:14 <erisco> So I am going to say, without knowing the precise GHC version, this looks like an undocumented nonstandard behaviour (or a bug)
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18:55:11 <EvanR> > let x @ loop = 5 in fix (undefined @)
18:55:12 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:37: error: parse error on input ‘)’
18:55:43 <mauke> > let x @ loop = 5 in (x, loop)
18:55:45 <lambdabot> (5,5)
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18:56:06 <erisco> unintentional bind pattern?
18:57:15 <EvanR> > let x %% loop = 5 in fix (undefined %%)
18:57:16 <lambdabot> 5
18:57:26 <EvanR> that was slow
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18:58:45 <erisco> oh, it of course is including infinite loops as undefined, isn't it
19:00:10 <monochrom> Yeah, The Haskell Report requires (k +) = (\x -> k + x), but GHC has deviated from that for a long time, it does (+) k, which is different in unusual cases.
19:00:52 <EvanR> (\x -> k + x) is in WHNF while (+) k isn't
19:00:56 <erisco> So you can just make m >> depend on n >> for the same instance. GHC will recognise this loop and not do any work (iirc it throws, though)
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19:01:40 <monochrom> IIRC at some point someone pointed it out, then SPJ was like "oh, right, but wontfix" :)
19:01:54 <EvanR> typical
19:02:05 <monochrom> or maybe s/wonfix/I have a reason for this/
19:02:21 <EvanR> more likely
19:02:21 <erisco> I don't really get what the issue is
19:02:29 <erisco> why wouldn't it just rewrite as the report says
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19:02:57 <erisco> (%) expr can be distinct from (expr %) as far as I am concerned
19:03:04 <monochrom> Something about in most cases the "(+) k" way is more optimized.
19:03:45 <EvanR> erisco, and what would that distinction be
19:04:21 <erisco> EvanR, the WHNF
19:04:31 <EvanR> neither are WHNF
19:04:40 <mauke> see the "operator sections" link above. the ghc manual explains it
19:04:56 <mauke> (expr %) is WHNF because it's a lambda
19:05:04 <erisco> ^
19:05:44 <EvanR> oh
19:11:05 <monochrom> I think here is a difference in practice, it affects memoization. "(%) x = let mem = [0, x ..] in \y -> mem !! y". Then (\y -> 5 % y) and (%) 5 have different memoization/reuse behaviours.
19:11:55 <monochrom> If you define "f = (%) 5" then "f 3" and "f 100" share the same internal list.
19:12:17 <monochrom> If you define "g = (\y -> 5 % y)" then "g 3" and "g 100" don't share.
19:12:42 <monochrom> Then you can define "h = (5 %)" to see whether it
19:12:47 <monochrom> 's more like f or more like g.
19:14:06 <EvanR> well that syntax is not obvious now xD
19:14:57 <erisco> you talkin' ghc or you talkin' haskell
19:15:01 <monochrom> GHC.
19:15:41 <monochrom> I cannot test the Haskell Report itself. It's just an html file. :)
19:15:51 <EvanR> @src fix
19:15:52 <lambdabot> fix f = let x = f x in x
19:16:07 erisco braces for the "executable specification" people
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19:17:43 <monochrom> Well the other factor is that the Haskell Report isn't rigorous enough for even calculating this by hand.
19:18:31 <monochrom> As opposed to «The Definition of Standard ML»
19:19:37 <monochrom> It has a complete operational semantics, you can actually follow it to run SML code by hand step by step.
19:19:50 <davean> monochrom: The lack of semantics in the Haskell Report is super annoying.
19:20:54 <monochrom> Yeah.
19:21:19 <monochrom> On top of that, some anal people deduce and advocate "therefore Haskell is not lazy, just non-strict".
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19:22:27 <EvanR> you can do anything as long as it's not strict
19:22:34 <monochrom> Therefore whenever someone has problems with space consumption, their stance implies that we don't know why and how to fix, because we don't even know it's lazy evaluation.
19:24:07 <monochrom> Ironically "seq" was added with laziness and eagerness in mind, not just the on-paper "strictness".
19:24:38 <mauke> why is it called seq if it doesn't uence
19:24:57 <monochrom> We know because John Hughes in an interview said that his contribution was adding seq to help with space consumption when laziness hurts and selectively disabling it is the fix.
19:26:15 <monochrom> All in all, hiding behind "the Report just says strict and nonstrict" is hidning behind legalese.
19:26:17 <davean> monochrom: I mean the just non-strict is clearly obviously true?
19:26:51 <davean> That doesn't really relate to space leaks though because we can annotate strictness and we can calculate demand
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19:30:05 <EvanR> it's a labor theory of semantics, what the code means is established through programmer working to accomplish actual stuff, like evaluating this or that at some time to save actual space. Regardless of standards
19:30:20 <EvanR> which avoids another external locus of control
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19:34:03 <monochrom> :)
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20:22:50 <monochrom> Oh w00t GHC 9.6.3
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20:23:27 <Rembane> It's a time for celebration!
20:25:34 <monochrom> And 9.8.1-alpha4 a few days ago. Wait, does "TypeAbstract" mean type-level lambda?!
20:27:47 <geekosaur> iirc it's a little short of full type level lambdas
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20:31:23 <haskellbridge> <j​ade> ooo this might be the first release with my (tiny) change(s) in it
20:31:53 <mauke> "Improve zonking behavior for defaulting plugins"
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20:38:09 <EvanR> blasted skolems and their zonking behavior
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20:48:52 <Rembane> I'm trying to build my project in CI using Haskell CI and also using a version of text >= 2.0 and the constraint checker becomes unhappy with me. Can I convince it to use a version of text >= 2.0? https://github.com/dtekcth/mat-chalmers/actions/runs/6304633600/job/17116376838?pr=120 <- some details
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20:55:45 <geekosaur> Rembane, the key error there is "requires installed instance". What version of ghc is this using?
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20:56:07 <geekosaur> because text ships with ghc and apparently is an old version
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20:58:02 <geekosaur> actually, belay that. specifically it says `cabal.project.local` is requiring it
20:58:10 <geekosaur> @where paste
20:58:10 <lambdabot> Help us help you: please paste full code, input and/or output at e.g. https://paste.tomsmeding.com
20:58:13 <Rembane> geekosaur: That's a very good question. GHC 9.0.2. It works on my machine though (lol)
20:59:21 <geekosaur> 9.0.2 ships with text 1.2.5.0 indeed
20:59:42 <geekosaur> so use the pastebin to show us cabal.project.local
20:59:50 <Rembane> Then it's even more fastinating that it works locally.
21:01:15 <Rembane> cabal.project.local is generated by the CI script and never printed. I'll take care of that. Momento!
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21:01:49 <geekosaur> then I'd suspect that's why it works locally 🙂
21:02:56 <geekosaur> text isn't pinned by cabal so it can be upgraded (there's only a small handful of packages that get pinned by the compiler). but the error says cabal.project.local is pinning it
21:03:29 <Rembane> Sweet! I'll upgrade GHC and hopefully it just works after that. :)
21:03:33 <Rembane> Thanks for your help!
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21:17:26 <Guest|79> im with some problems installing haskel
21:17:51 <Guest|79> [ ghc-configure ] not found (too old?)
21:17:52 <Guest|79> [ ghc-configure ] checking for gcc... gcc
21:17:53 <Guest|79> [ ghc-configure ] checking whether the C compiler works... no
21:17:53 <Guest|79> [ ghc-configure ] configure: error: in `/Users/franciscoguimaraes/.ghcup/tmp/ghcup-15ce9d419add0e91/ghc-9.2.8-aarch64-apple-darwin'...
21:17:54 <Guest|79> [ ghc-configure ] configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables
21:17:54 <Guest|79> [ ghc-configure ] See `config.log' for more details
21:17:55 <Guest|79> [ Error ] [GHCup-00841] Process "sh" with arguments ["./configure",
21:17:55 <Guest|79> [ ... ] "--prefix=/Users/franciscoguimaraes/.ghcup/ghc/9.2.8",
21:17:55 <Guest|79> [ ... ] "--disable-ld-override"] failed with exit code 77.
21:17:56 <Guest|79> [ Error ] Also check the logs in /Users/franciscoguimaraes/.ghcup/logs
21:17:56 <Guest|79> "ghcup --metadata-fetching-mode=Strict --cache install ghc recommended" failed!
21:18:00 <Guest|79> what should I do
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21:20:09 <erisco> Guest|79, for long pastes, please use something such as gist.github.com so that the conversation is easier to track. It looks like there is a problem with your C compiler. Perhaps check that it works and is up to date?
21:20:48 <Guest|79> but how I resolve that problem?
21:21:13 <EvanR> @where paste
21:21:14 <lambdabot> Help us help you: please paste full code, input and/or output at e.g. https://paste.tomsmeding.com
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21:21:34 <geekosaur> do you have the xcode command line tools installed?
21:23:11 <geekosaur> Guest|79 ^^
21:23:48 <Guest|79> idk, maybe not, where I install that?
21:24:34 <mauke> it says "see config.log for more details" and "check the logs in /Users/franciscoguimaraes/.ghcup/logs". what's in there?
21:24:50 <geekosaur> open a terminal and type: xcode-select --install
21:25:34 <geekosaur> without that, gcc will be a stub that prints out that the command line tools aren't installed and exits
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21:25:55 <mauke> ah
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21:26:57 <Guest|79> doesn't even exist .ghcup there
21:26:59 <Guest|79> :
21:27:02 <Guest|79> :/
21:27:37 <erisco> geekosaur, seems less helpful than it not being there at all, lol
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21:28:15 <geekosaur> I think if you7 run it from a command line instead of in a script, it opens a popup which offers to install the CLT
21:28:25 <geekosaur> but uit's been a while
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21:29:59 <Guest|79> im installing rn Xcode command line tools, maybe was that
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21:36:29 <Guest|79> thanks, it results
21:36:30 <Guest|79> :)
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21:56:45 <mauke> https://infosec.exchange/@barubary/111127550316585383
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21:59:45 <c_wraith> so... yet another reason to not use that extension.
21:59:51 <erisco> That is left field for me. Never worked with that extension before!
22:01:28 <mauke> yeah
22:01:50 <erisco> {-# LANGUAGE GoQuickGetTricked #-}
22:03:17 <mauke> {-# LANGUAGE YouThoughtThisWasHaskellThinkAgain #-}
22:06:10 <EvanR> I was skeptical of this post from the beginning!
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22:07:16 <EvanR> causing people to think haskell is behaving mysteriously but somewhere someone enabled Strict
22:07:25 <EvanR> who does that!
22:08:29 <erisco> I feel like if you have a deep transformer stack, which probably includes state, throw/catch, maybe ST or IO... maybe just use a procedural language. Though I know some argue Haskell is the best of those :P
22:12:29 <EvanR> you sound like a proponent of simple haskell!
22:12:36 <EvanR> smh
22:13:05 <EvanR> enterprise integration haskell is where it's at
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22:25:33 <monochrom> Instead of "fix and strictness don't mix", more generally, recursion and strictness don't mix.
22:26:54 <monochrom> The very idiom "x = m >> x", no matter how you rename it, depends on ">>" being non-strict in its 2nd operand.
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22:29:31 <monochrom> But then if you rewrite it to "x = m >>= \_ -> x" or "fix (\s -> m >>= \_ -> s)" you miss the problem. :)
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All times are in UTC on 2023-09-25.