Home liberachat/#haskell: Logs Calendar

Logs on 2023-10-14 (liberachat/#haskell)

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09:45:18 <miguelnegrao> Hi all
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09:46:08 <miguelnegrao> writting type signatures for lens functions is really hard. I'm pretty sure this function should work, and it does with concrete examples, but I can't write the type signature. Can anyone help ?
09:46:10 <miguelnegrao> setWithPrism prism newValue source =
09:46:12 <miguelnegrao> case preview prism source of
09:46:14 <miguelnegrao> Just _ -> Just (set prism newValue source)
09:46:16 <miguelnegrao> Nothing -> Nothing
09:46:49 <miguelnegrao> the idea is having prism check if the value exists, and if it does set it something else but return Just so that one can tell if the update was done or not
09:49:39 <[exa]> so basically like a setter, only reporting if stuff actually set anything or not? what would happen if it matches and sets multiple targets?
09:50:25 <[exa]> (you might need to have a monoid handy for such case, which might be why the types refuse to work)
09:51:02 <[exa]> (btw for others debugging here it might be good to have a running example handy on play.haskell.org)
09:53:38 <miguelnegrao> if matches multiple things then would also return a Just
09:54:44 <[exa]> anyway I believe a similar thing existed somewhere already, basically it's an usual optic but instead of the usual Identity or Const you smash in the `\x -> ([x],x)` as the functor
09:55:54 <miguelnegrao> example: https://play.haskell.org/saved/uZHT2NNf
09:57:00 <miguelnegrao> example with multiple targets: https://play.haskell.org/saved/jzTo8y3a
09:57:23 <miguelnegrao> hard to search for a function when you don't know its type signature :-)
09:59:24 <miguelnegrao> setWithPrism :: Prism' s a -> a -> s -> Maybe s Doesn't quite work
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10:01:45 <miguelnegrao> Anyway, its easy to work around the issue. Thanks exa !
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10:02:14 <ncf> miguelnegrao: are you looking for `failover`?
10:02:21 <ncf> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/lens-5.2.3/docs/Control-Lens-Traversal.html#v:failover
10:03:02 <[exa]> miguelnegrao: try this: https://play.haskell.org/saved/f6sjY7Bv
10:03:28 <ncf> > [Left (1::Int), Left (2::Int),Right 3] & failover (_head . _Left) (const 200)
10:03:30 <lambdabot> error:
10:03:30 <lambdabot> • Ambiguous type variable ‘m0’ arising from a use of ‘show_M815894106384...
10:03:30 <lambdabot> prevents the constraint ‘(Show
10:03:53 <ncf> > [Left (1::Int), Left (2::Int),Right 3] & failover (_head . _Left) (const 200) :: Maybe [Either Int Int]
10:03:54 <lambdabot> Just [Left 200,Left 2,Right 3]
10:05:12 <[exa]> miguelnegrao: re the code above, there might be existing Applicative&Functor instances that do the same and I guess `failover` is also kinda isomorphic, but I guess it's the canonical solution that should work for all lensy things (you can also trivially implement `over` with that)
10:08:39 <[exa]> (also visibly `MaybeMatched a == Bool × a`, also an easy fix)
10:11:32 <ncf> Any × a, even, which is how failover is implemented
10:19:34 <[exa]> ah ok nice, there we go. :]
10:19:51 <miguelnegrao> Ah, yes, I think failover is exactly it, thanks !
10:20:42 <miguelnegrao> The lens library is like a holy book, one needs to study it carefully to find the answer :-)
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10:25:01 <ncf> more like a grimoire
10:27:39 <danza> i think most people learn it by other means that its official docs. Maybe there is an "optics by example" or similar book that is popular miguelnegrao
10:35:00 <miguelnegrao> having a [(Bool, Int)] I want to use set on the first element which has False on the first element of the tuple if it exists. Is there a better way than this ?
10:35:10 <miguelnegrao> set (taking 1 $ traversed . filtered (not . fst). _2) 100 [(True, 1::Int), (False, 2), (True, 3)]
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10:36:21 <danza> i must be biased but can't see the advantage of using lenses in this case. Seems more complex than the naive way
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10:37:28 <miguelnegrao> This is a simplified example, the complete thing has do drill down much more nested structures
10:37:52 <miguelnegrao> But yeah, fail over does what I need: failover (taking 1 $ traversed . filtered (not . fst). _2) (const 100) [(True, 1::Int), (True, 2), (True, 3)] returns Nothing
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10:38:25 <miguelnegrao> and failover (taking 1 $ traversed . filtered (not . fst). _2) (const 100) [(True, 1::Int), (True, 2), (False, 3)] returns Just [(True,1),(True,2),(False,100)]
10:38:29 <miguelnegrao> nice !
10:39:05 <miguelnegrao> and this makes for quite compact code...
10:40:34 <[exa]> danza: BUT LENSES
10:40:40 <[exa]> :D
10:40:58 <danza> :D
10:42:47 <[exa]> anyway yeah the main point is that lenses kinda hold compact while data complexity goes through the roof
10:42:53 <[exa]> usually.
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10:44:45 <ncf> traversed . itraversed . index False
10:45:12 <ncf> this is kinda abusing indexed traversals by making the first element of the tuple an index and then restricting on the index False
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10:48:39 <cheater> what is the haskell equivalent of "every tool is a hammer"
10:49:13 <ncf> every function is traverse
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10:50:28 <danza> what does "every tool is an hammer" even mean? I know "everything is a nail when you are holding an hammer", but not the former
10:51:59 <[exa]> unsafePerformHammer
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10:54:01 <danza> when all you meet are nails, every tool is an hammer
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10:55:46 <cheater> it means if you just need to whack something you can use any piece of iron, even though you have a hammer, because reaching for the hammer is something you're too lazy for if you already have a pliers / wrench / whatever in your hand
10:56:38 <danza> thanks, had not found any reference online
10:58:16 <danza> in my haskell practice i would say "can be done with a bit of recursion"
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11:02:35 <danza> hum no... it is not really the same. Recursion is a flexible tool that can replace many others. Here we are chatting about a task that does not really need specialization
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11:17:40 <miguelnegrao> @ncf can you explain traversed . itraversed . index False ? Does itraverse interpret the pairs inside the list as index value pairs ?
11:17:40 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: unpf rc bf
11:17:50 <ncf> miguelnegrao: yes
11:18:05 <ncf> it uses the TraversableWithIndex instance for ((,) i)
11:18:25 <miguelnegrao> nice ! :-D
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15:19:54 <haskellbridge> <I​nst> btw, if you guys want a fun game
15:20:31 <haskellbridge> <I​nst> how long does it take for you to figure out why this code is valid?
15:20:32 <haskellbridge> <I​nst> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/6Kj3Wk2U
15:20:59 <haskellbridge> <I​nst> i'm 20-30 seconds, a senior moderator on Discord was maybe 5 seconds
15:21:50 <bougatsa54> I don't unnderstand the question, isn't it valid because show converts x to a string?
15:22:44 <haskellbridge> <I​nst> it's just a silly trick question, i guess
15:22:55 <ncf> bougatsa54: note that it wouldn't work with Text (if you used Text.show)
15:23:38 <haskellbridge> <I​nst> yeah, cause text isn't monadic
15:23:58 <haskellbridge> <I​nst> so i guess most people here are under 10 seconds?
15:24:43 <bougatsa54> :D oh I see
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15:31:01 <geekosaur> about a second and a half, fwiw
15:31:11 <mauke> I was confused why it wouldn't be valid
15:32:15 <haskellbridge> <I​nst> i guess the trick is that some people hate strings
15:32:24 <haskellbridge> <I​nst> and don't think about it often enough
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15:41:25 <haskellbridge> <I​nst> mauke: at the outset, i was thinking "what monadic type does return stuff True into?"
15:42:23 <haskellbridge> <I​nst> it also implies any usage of lists under do notation can be trivially terminated with a string
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15:44:56 <mauke> return? any type you want
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15:46:04 <haskellbridge> <I​nst> i mean it's a -> m a, but what's the m
15:46:12 <haskellbridge> <I​nst> also [1..100] >> "Hello" works as an extension
15:47:01 <haskellbridge> <I​nst> odious idioms that must never be used, part 43
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15:48:15 <ncf> hideoms
15:48:24 <haskellbridge> <I​nst> i guess "Hello" <$ [1..100] is more reasonable
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15:52:13 <haskellbridge> <I​nst> does anyone use sequence [[foo,bar],[baz,qux]] as a cartesian product generator?
15:52:32 <geekosaur> it's an idiom I have seen
15:52:35 <monochrom> I do.
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15:52:51 <monochrom> I even put it on exams. >:)
15:53:29 <monochrom> "Dove Taylor loves loops. So much that she wants the number of level of loops to depend on input."
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15:54:22 <monochrom> Thus [[a,b], [c,d,e]] is two levels, [[a,b], [c,d,e], [f,g]] is 3 levels.
15:55:08 <int-e> > replicateM 3 [0,1] -- I do this kind of thing on occasion
15:55:17 <int-e> > replicateM 3 [0,1]
15:55:19 <lambdabot> [[0,0,0],[0,0,1],[0,1,0],[0,1,1],[1,0,0],[1,0,1],[1,1,0],[1,1,1]]
15:55:47 <monochrom> If you take a computability course and need to do dovetailing, you immediately see the relevance, and why I called her Dove Taylor. >:)
15:56:52 <haskellbridge> <I​nst> sounds SICPy
15:58:00 <mauke> I once tried to tail a dove, but it got away from me
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15:59:50 <haskellbridge> <I​nst> what is the actual question?
16:00:04 <haskellbridge> <I​nst> and how many people try to implement it via sequence, how many via monadic do, and how many via list comprehensions?
16:00:32 <monochrom> How to implement sequence.
16:01:22 <haskellbridge> <I​nst> ah
16:02:07 <haskellbridge> <I​nst> with the strict Applicative constraint, or Monads are allowed?
16:02:40 <monochrom> Applicative
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16:04:04 <haskellbridge> <I​nst> it's actually sequenceA that has the applicative constraint, ffff
16:04:12 <mauke> :t traverse (fmap fix pure)
16:04:13 <lambdabot> (Traversable t, Applicative f) => t (f b) -> f (t b)
16:04:50 <geekosaur> historically `Applicative` didn't exist and `sequence` required `Monad`
16:05:08 <mauke> @src sequence
16:05:08 <lambdabot> sequence [] = return []
16:05:08 <lambdabot> sequence (x:xs) = do v <- x; vs <- sequence xs; return (v:vs)
16:05:08 <lambdabot> --OR
16:05:08 <lambdabot> sequence xs = foldr (liftM2 (:)) (return []) xs
16:05:17 <mauke> oh, lambdabot
16:05:54 <int-e> huh when did the bot get +v...
16:06:00 <mauke> :t foldr (liftA2 (:)) (pure [])
16:06:00 <lambdabot> (Foldable t, Applicative f) => t (f a) -> f [a]
16:06:10 <mauke> a while ago when someone said bots should be +v
16:06:30 <mauke> presumably to exempt them from spam detection?
16:06:43 <geekosaur> a couple days ago, on advice of A_Dragon (libera staff) who said bots should ave +v while ozone (spambot) is present in the room
16:06:44 <geekosaur> yes
16:06:55 <int-e> ah, that makes sense
16:06:56 <int-e> thanks
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16:15:43 <haskellbridge> <I​nst> busy working on my own challenge, thanks for interesting haskell for the day
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16:20:55 <haskellbridge> <I​nst> wait, isn't sequenceA just traverse id?
16:21:00 <haskellbridge> <I​nst> I'm an idiot :(
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16:25:12 <haskellbridge> <I​nst> was looking at the type signature looking for something cool, then i realized, all you need is traverse id to derive sequenceA from traverse, and looked it up, traverse = (sequence .). fmap
16:29:10 <haskellbridge> <I​nst> instance Traversable [] where
16:29:10 <haskellbridge> <I​nst> sequenceA (x:xs) = liftA2 (:) x $ sequenceA xs
16:29:12 <haskellbridge> <I​nst> sequenceA [] = pure []
16:29:13 <haskellbridge> <I​nst> canonical, i think
16:30:00 <haskellbridge> <I​nst> whoops, different implementation, intended to fuse
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16:33:19 <haskellbridge> <I​nst> and based off traverse, not sequenceA
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18:08:16 <Guest|25> Hello, could someone help me to remove Haskell completely in Windows?
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18:12:57 <monochrom> Did you use ghcup to install? I think it has an uninstall command.
18:14:18 <rgw> Nuclear Commands:
18:14:19 <rgw> nuke Completely remove ghcup from your system
18:15:36 <rgw> it should have added an uninstall powershell script to your desktop when you installed it, you could just run that
18:15:59 <tomsmeding> (they already left)
18:16:05 <rgw> of course
18:17:06 <tomsmeding> that's a ccTLD you don't see all that often
18:17:13 <tomsmeding> s/you/I/
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18:25:23 <haskellbridge> <I​nst> check your users/ directory
18:25:29 <haskellbridge> <I​nst> expose hidden folders
18:25:36 <tomsmeding> Inst: they left like 2 minutes after asking
18:25:43 <haskellbridge> <I​nst> Guest|25: didn't like it, or had --lib blow up in your face?
18:26:27 <Inst> whoops
18:26:36 <monochrom> Haha sorry what did I start :)
18:26:56 <tomsmeding> Inst: do you not see the /leave event on the matrix side?
18:27:04 <tomsmeding> that's a downside of the bridging
18:27:20 <Inst> nooooooope :(
18:27:47 <rgw> i honestly just disable join/parts because of the crazy noise
18:28:42 <tomsmeding> I have my irc client set up to only show join/leave events when within 30 minutes of something they said
18:28:47 <tomsmeding> it's a neat weechat feature
18:29:06 <tomsmeding> (the join event gets retroactively inserted in the stream when someone says something <30mins after)
18:29:15 <tomsmeding> gives you the most relevant events without the spam
18:29:16 <rgw> i was gonna ask about the retroactive join
18:29:19 <rgw> that's pretty neat
18:29:28 <yushyin> well, that's smart of weechat
18:29:37 <tomsmeding> irc.look.smart_filter and suboptions, for the weechat people around
18:30:38 <tomsmeding> the only downside is that if someone leaves because their connection broke, and they immediately rejoin but don't say anything, it looks to me like they just left
18:31:07 <tomsmeding> I typically double-check by trying nick autocomplete
18:31:20 <tomsmeding> (the nicklist is way too long in this channel)
18:31:30 <tomsmeding> (doesn't even reach b on the screen)
18:31:57 <Inst> alternate solution: 10pt 4k res :)
18:31:58 <rgw> that's always been a problem in big chats
18:32:23 <Inst> although that's pretty useless for haskell, imo
18:32:31 <tomsmeding> Inst: 15pt 1440p here, large enough for me :p
18:32:39 <rgw> kinda wish you could filter the nicklist by activity using logs
18:32:52 <tomsmeding> ooh that would be neat
18:32:53 <ncf> half-decent clients show nicknames of absent people in a different colour
18:33:06 <tomsmeding> that would actually make the nicklist useless instead of making me now think why I even have it shown in #haskell
18:33:11 <rgw> still fills up the list though
18:33:23 <tomsmeding> ncf: that's not helpful if the lowest nick on the list starts with 'as'
18:33:25 <yushyin> tomsmeding: i have set weechat.color.chat_nick_offline to darkgray. it will recolor the nickname in chat
18:33:43 <ncf> huh?
18:33:55 <tomsmeding> yushyin: ooh
18:34:13 <ncf> is that not the default?
18:34:33 <yushyin> maybe? maybe the defaults have changed
18:35:13 <tomsmeding> maybe the defaults have changed indeed
18:35:23 <tomsmeding> ah no the default is still off
18:35:25 <yushyin> well ok, you also need to set weechat.look.color_nick_offline to on
18:36:01 <tomsmeding> yeah weechat.look.color_nick_offline is default off, and I had it off (now on); weechat.color.chat_nick_offline was the non-default value "default" (instead of the default value 242), for some reason
18:36:10 <tomsmeding> thanks!
18:37:29 <tomsmeding> oh now it shows all bridged users as offline because my plugin rewrites '<haskellbridge> <nick>' to '<↑nick>', and '↑nick' is of course never in the nicklist
18:37:46 <tomsmeding> oh well
18:38:26 <yushyin> you cannot have it all it seems xD
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20:29:53 <asivitz> anyone know what the reason is that heap profiling options (-hy, -hm, etc) are exclusive? it seems like I should be able to get a view of my heap that tells me: the types of the values, where they come from, their size, the other values they point to, etc. all in one report
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21:50:27 <talismanick> Are there libraries for fault tolerance by spawning lots of greenthreads in a process hierarchy like Erlang?
21:51:18 <talismanick> Closest that comes to mind is Cloud Haskell, but that's dead iirc (correct me if I'm wrong)
21:52:01 <talismanick> never mind!
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22:14:54 <EvanR> the async library allows setting up relationships between threads, but doesn't go as far as cloud haskell with the network transparency
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All times are in UTC on 2023-10-14.