Home liberachat/#haskell: Logs Calendar

Logs on 2023-11-27 (liberachat/#haskell)

00:00:06 <Fijxu> Axman6: I will learn it in the future maybe
00:00:44 <Fijxu> I don't want to lose focus on C and dropping it by another lang for nw
00:00:46 <Fijxu> now*
00:00:50 <monochrom> Yeah consider taking seriously "I am a beginner" to its logical conclusion. Therefore, as a beginner, one is extremely likely to be wrong about what is important, even for the intended project.
00:00:52 <Axman6> I think there's a lot to be said for learning high level to low level. High level languages let you have thoughts you can't have in lower level ones
00:01:13 <Fijxu> haskell is a high level one?
00:01:29 <int-e> if you hold it right
00:02:23 <int-e> . o O ( If you hold it wrong it can become an awful C dialect with a terrible compiler. )
00:03:25 <int-e> (I'm thinking of bytestring internals, especially early on when they had fun bugs like sharing buffers between different bytestrings thanks to the power of inlinePerformIO.)
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00:30:12 ski . o O ( "Teach Yourself Programming in ..." by Peter Norvig at <https://www.norvig.com/21-days.html> )
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01:21:56 <jack_rabbit> Is there a convention for mapping over a list, where each element produces multiple values in the final list? I could just make a [[t]] and then flatten it, but not sure if there's a more canonical way.
01:22:49 <geekosaur> that's it, aka the list monad
01:23:03 <geekosaur> :t concatMap
01:23:04 <lambdabot> Foldable t => (a -> [b]) -> t a -> [b]
01:24:02 <int-e> > do x <- [1,2,3]; replicate x x
01:24:03 <lambdabot> [1,2,2,3,3,3]
01:24:15 <jack_rabbit> Ahh nice, thanks.
01:24:39 <Axman6> > [1,2,3] >>= \x -> replicate x x
01:24:42 <lambdabot> [1,2,2,3,3,3]
01:25:00 <ski> > [y | x <- [0,1,2,3],y <- replicate x x]
01:25:01 <lambdabot> [1,2,2,3,3,3]
01:25:48 <int-e> > concatMap (join replicate) [0..3] -- scnr to bring in another monad
01:25:49 <lambdabot> [1,2,2,3,3,3]
01:26:26 int-e blames @pl
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01:28:28 <monochrom> "This is getting out of hand. Now there are two monads!"
01:28:50 <Axman6> What is this, binad///
01:28:54 <Axman6> ???*
01:29:05 <Axman6> or would it be biad
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04:26:06 <JeremyB99> I've got a question about the getLine function and functions that are unsafe if provided nothing.
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04:30:12 <Axman6> JeremyB99: Don't ask to ask, just ask :)
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04:40:47 <JeremyB41> I have a function called check that takes a String -> String that crashes if it is given no input, but when I use it with the function with getLine, even when I don't input anything, my function seems to be completely safe. Does getLine convert blank inputs into something else?
04:43:07 <JeremyB41> and should I convert my check function to something safer anyway like Maybe String -> Maybe String
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05:00:23 <EvanR> you saw two nested problems and said I know, I'll use a monad! Now you have one problem
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05:23:26 <jackdk> JeremyB99: welcome back. I think the reason your `check`-using code doesn't crash is because lazy evaluation means nothing is trying to consume the result and your function never gets run. I would definitely rewrite `check` to have type `String :: Maybe String`. See also: https://lexi-lambda.github.io/blog/2019/11/05/parse-don-t-validate/
05:23:49 <jackdk> If you want to post your code into a pastebin, we can confirm this theory. @where paste
05:23:53 <jackdk> @where paste
05:23:53 <lambdabot> Help us help you: please paste full code, input and/or output at e.g. https://paste.tomsmeding.com
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05:29:02 <JeremyB71> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/ungryHdy
05:30:35 <jackdk> JeremyB71: `check ""` will return `"Invalid Move"` because of the `otherwise` clause; you can test this in GHCi
05:34:10 <iqubic> What are we doing here?
05:35:05 <jackdk> learning to write Haskell via a rock-paper-scissors implementation, looks like
05:35:17 <jackdk> Also, you might want to add `data Move = Rock | Paper | Scissors deriving (Eq, Show)` and then work with that more specific type
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05:55:16 <JeremyB99> Did my last four messages get through? My internet can be pretty horrible sometimes
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05:57:55 <jackdk> JeremyB99: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/80SKgwOy/WhatISaw.txt
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05:59:07 <JeremyB99> Ah, sorry
05:59:37 <JeremyB99> JeremyB99: What I'm still confused about is why doing something like check 17 errors in ghci, but doing
05:59:37 <JeremyB99> [00:42] JeremyB99: main. What is you move player one? 17. Doesn't crash the function, but instead provides the otherwise guard in ghci
05:59:37 <JeremyB99> [00:42] JeremyB99: Shouldn't those two be equivalent?
06:02:33 <monochrom> check 17? check "17"?
06:03:00 <probie> monochrom: They mean line 17
06:03:11 <JeremyB99> Nah, just the number itself 17 :: integer
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06:03:34 <probie> s/integer/Integer/
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06:07:19 <JeremyB99> Doing check (17::Int) gives an error, but providing 17 or even just hitting enter and providing nothing at all in response to the "what is your first move?" question doesn't crash
06:08:47 <jackdk> Yeah because providing no input will give you the string `""` as a result, entering `17` will give you the string `"17"` as a result, but writing `17` in GHCi means you have to abide by Haskell's syntax, where sequences of numerals are interpreted as numbers.
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06:11:03 <JeremyB99> Oh, so the reason that the function check is safe is because getLine always provides a string for the guards to reject
06:12:03 <jackdk> yes, exactly.
06:12:42 <jackdk> I don't know if you saw the previous message, but I recommend introducing a separate data type for your moves, so that check can parse into something more precise than string
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06:14:55 <JeremyB99> Thanks. Are there any other parts of my code that should be changed?
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06:16:52 <JeremyB99> I tried to make my code as clean as possible, but since my first language is Python, a lot of this stuff like recursion and monads are new to me.
06:17:08 <jackdk> You can use empty strings `""` instead of strings containing a single space `" "`, and I'd probably also introduce a data type for players and winners: `data Player = Player1 | Player 2`; `data Winner = WinningPlayer Player | Draw`; then you can change the type of `moveEvaluate :: Move -> Move -> Winner` to get something more precise. Turning it back into a string for printing would then be the responsibility of another function
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06:19:45 <JeremyB99> And should I use Maybe for handling IO inputs, or should I just leave it?
06:20:09 <jackdk> Sorry, can you unpack that question a bit more? I'm not sure what you're asking
06:21:49 <JeremyB99> Like turning the check function into Maybe String -> Maybe Move or something like that
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06:22:33 <JeremyB99> Or keeping it string -> move since it seems safe
06:23:38 <jackdk> You won't be able to restrict the return type to `Move` because what will you do with nonsense or empty input? But turning it into `check :: String -> Maybe Move` seems pretty good to me.
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07:33:39 <Noob_Programmer> hi
07:35:16 <Fijxu> test
07:35:22 <Fijxu> and hai
07:35:24 <Fijxu> :)
07:37:12 <ski> allo
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07:42:23 <Noob_Programmer> i am starting haskell , i have coded a little in C language and all the mysticness around haskell has drawn me in , all i know right now that the thought process itself is ver different for function programming so am quite excited
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07:43:12 <ski> it sure it, yes
07:43:22 <ski> be welcomed :)
07:44:02 <ski> if you've any question(s), feel free to state them here. sometimes it may take a little while for people to notice, so be patient
07:44:32 <ski> do you have access to any learning resources ?
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07:49:56 <Noob_Programmer> i am learnign from leanyouhaskell.com
07:50:16 <ski> do consider perhaps using
07:50:21 <ski> @where CIS194
07:50:21 <lambdabot> <https://github.com/byorgey/haskell-course>,<https://www.seas.upenn.edu/~cis194/spring13/lectures.html>
07:50:26 <Noob_Programmer> thanks
07:50:35 <ski> as well (the 2013 spring instance, latter link)
07:50:42 <ski> since LYAH doesn't have any exercises
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07:51:41 <Noob_Programmer> oh , thanks for the exercises as well
07:51:51 <Noob_Programmer> they look very intersting
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11:16:51 <carbolymer> @pl flip .
11:16:51 <lambdabot> (line 1, column 7):
11:16:51 <lambdabot> unexpected end of input
11:16:51 <lambdabot> expecting white space or simple term
11:17:03 <carbolymer> @pl flip (.)
11:17:03 <lambdabot> flip (.)
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11:37:54 <ski> carbolymer : `(>>>)'
11:38:39 <carbolymer> oh right, thanks ski
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16:49:11 <exarkun> is there a thing like `f <$> xs <*> ys` on [] but which preserves the inner structure (ie, gives you [[f xs0 ys0, ...], [f xs0 ys1, ...]])
16:51:24 <exarkun> oh utility-ht has outerProduct
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16:55:29 <ski> > getZipList ((*) <$> ZipList [0,1,2,3] <*> ZipList [1,10,100,1000]) -- exarkun ?
16:55:30 <lambdabot> [0,10,200,3000]
16:55:48 <ski> hm, oh. i misread
16:57:17 <ski> @let pam = flip map
16:57:17 <lambdabot> Defined.
16:57:19 <ski> > [0,1,2,3] `pam` \x -> [1,10,100,1000] `pam` \y -> x * y
16:57:20 <lambdabot> [[0,0,0,0],[1,10,100,1000],[2,20,200,2000],[3,30,300,3000]]
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17:00:10 <ski> > [0,1,2,3] `pam` ([1,10,100,1000] `pam`) . (*) -- not that nice ..
17:00:12 <lambdabot> [[0,0,0,0],[1,10,100,1000],[2,20,200,2000],[3,30,300,3000]]
17:00:35 <ski> (that's after adding infixl 1 `pam` that is)
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17:05:31 <exarkun> That looks like it comes pretty close to outerProduct, maybe just with arguments shuffled around a little: outerProduct f xs ys = map (flip map ys . f) xs
17:05:54 <idgaen> it seems: pam == (Functor.<&>)
17:06:10 <exarkun> oh yea
17:06:36 <idgaen> maybe appart for fixity
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17:13:46 <ski> > (*) <<$>> [0,1,2,3] <<*>> [1,10,100,1000] <<*>> id -- hmm
17:13:47 <lambdabot> [[0,0,0,0],[1,10,100,1000],[2,20,200,2000],[3,30,300,3000]]
17:14:37 <ski> > (\x y z -> x * y + z) <<$>> [0,1,2] <<*>> [1,10,100] <<*>> [2,3,5] <<*>> id
17:14:38 <lambdabot> [[[2,3,5],[2,3,5],[2,3,5]],[[3,4,6],[12,13,15],[102,103,105]],[[4,5,7],[22,2...
17:15:18 <ski> the `<<*>> id' is kinda annoying. with deep sections, i could make this a little bit nicer
17:15:55 <ski> > (*) <<$>> ([0,1,2,3] <<*>> [1,10,100,1000] <<|) -- alas
17:15:57 <lambdabot> error:
17:15:57 <lambdabot> The operator ‘<<|’ [infixr 4] of a section
17:15:57 <lambdabot> must have lower precedence than that of the operand,
17:17:36 <ski> idgaen : yes. i'm used to defining `pam', from when `&' and `<&>' wasn't a thing
17:19:35 <idgaen> i didn't play with haskell at this old time ;)
17:20:33 <ski> Haskell is how i got into IRC
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17:38:52 <glguy> Haskell is how I got into IRC and now Haskell is how I talk on IRC
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18:23:18 <zzz> haskell is how i got into mailing lists
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19:26:45 <kaol> Mozart (the programming language) is how I got into Haskell. One of their devs called Haskell "too linear" on their mailing list and that led me to check it out.
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19:29:01 <duncan> There are worse comments on mailing lists to be inspired by like the infamous Solaris "have you ever kissed a girl"
19:32:52 <ski> (fwiw, Oz is the language of CTM. Mozart is the implementation)
19:32:57 <mauke> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hUNY9V3_TI
19:33:01 <ski> @where CTM
19:33:01 <lambdabot> "Concepts, Techniques, and Models of Computer Programming", by Peter Van Roy,Seif Haridi, at <http://www.info.ucl.ac.be/~pvr/book.html>
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19:40:30 <EvanR> haskell is too linear??
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19:41:26 <kaol> I won't try to dig up what someone said 20 years ago.
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19:44:38 <ski> perhaps they were talking about concurrency (including declarative concurrency) and distribution support in Oz (also in Alice ML, which used to use the same VM)
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19:47:27 <kaol> Oz lets passing unbound variables around and any other part of the program could be waiting for someone else to bind it to a value. Funky stuff.
19:48:13 <kaol> Imagine programming with evey variable being a single assignemnt MVar.
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19:49:37 <exarkun> ski: That would be my take.
19:50:00 <exarkun> `True || undefined` vs `undefined || True` being the standard example, I think.
19:50:30 <EvanR> :t lub
19:50:31 <lambdabot> error:
19:50:31 <lambdabot> • Variable not in scope: lub
19:50:31 <lambdabot> • Perhaps you meant one of these:
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19:51:16 <EvanR> :: a -> a -> a
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19:52:11 <EvanR> I am now mildly curious about Oz
19:55:20 <ski> in Oz, if you compare structures for equality, and some parts of them hasn't got values yet, it postpones those checks, and continues on with the rest. which may often short-circuit (in case of mismatch), abandoning the postponed checks. in case it doesn't short-circuit, your execution thread will block until it is able to decide the equality check
19:55:51 <ski> Oz separates all three of (a) bringing a variable into scope; (b) binding a variable to a computation; (c) actually performing that computation
19:56:21 <ski> bringing a variable into scope, without having associated it to a value yet, is akin to
19:56:27 <ski> @hackage ivar-simple
19:56:27 <lambdabot> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ivar-simple
19:56:33 <ski> but at a language level, not as a library
19:57:34 <EvanR> languagized ivars
19:57:37 <ski> it is heavily used for (e.g. declarative) concurrency, to communicate between threads. these variables are called "dataflow variables", in that context. in the traditional logic programming context, they're known as "logic variables". in a type inference context, this is "meta variables"
19:58:53 <ski> (the "declarative" means that the concurrency is deterministic. so race conditions, e.g. from indeterministically merging two channels (or selecting not necessarily the first message in a mailbox), is verboten)
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20:00:19 <ski> it (Oz as well as Alice ML, also has support for lazy evaluation. and not in the "specific datatype" sense in which SML/NJ and OCaml supports them. but it's not the default, you need to use `lazy' (iirc) to construct such delayed values (of same type as the delayed expression))
20:00:37 <ski> anyway, CTM is aquite neat book. somewhat comparable to SICP, you could say
20:00:45 <monochrom> I need to read CTM some day. It may be a good way to make a "principles of programming languages" course.
20:00:52 <ski> (it's also a heavy tome)
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20:02:53 <ski> they start from a small core language, which is a logic programming in nature, but without any nondeterminism (like backtracking). and they introduce execution models for it (like substitution model, and abstract machines). and they successively add more features to the language (like functions, object-orientation, mutable state, declarative concurrency, non-declarative concurrency, "engines" for
20:02:59 <ski> backtracking and constraint programming, &c.)
20:03:18 <monochrom> OTOH I feel bad about tellling my students to buy a us$100 book.
20:03:27 <ski> yea .. there's that
20:04:32 <monochrom> For us$100 I am OK with eg CLRS (Intro to Algorithms) because it lasts for multiple courses and additional interests in programming, data structures, algorithms.
20:05:02 <ski> "Programming Language Design Concepts" by David A. Watt,(William Findlay) in 2004 is a quite nice book, covering multiple paradigms and concepts
20:05:18 <monochrom> But a Principle of Prog Langs books lasts for only one course and very tangential for 99% of students.
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20:05:47 <ski> it contains a bunch of "principles" that are useful to consider, when you're designing your new language
20:05:54 <ski> "Type Completeness Principle : No operation should be arbitrarily restricted in the types of its operands."
20:06:06 <ski> "Qualification Principle : It is possible to include a block in any syntactic category, provided that the constructs in that syntactic category specify some kind of computation."
20:06:22 <ski> "Abstraction Principle : It is possible to design procedures that abstract over any syntactic category, provided only that the constructs in that syntactic category specify some kind of computation. (For example, proper procedures abstract over commands, and function procedures abstract over expressions.)"
20:06:35 <ski> "Correspondence Principle : For each form of declaration there exists a corresponding parameter mechanism. (For example, a constant declaration corresponds to a constant parameter, and a variable declaration with initialization corresponds to a copy-in parameter.)"
20:07:48 ski nods to monochrom
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20:09:26 <monochrom> Dystopia solution: Principles of Prog Langs should be 3 courses. :D
20:09:49 <monochrom> Now it warrants a us$100 book. >:)
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20:13:04 <ski> why dystopia ?
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20:13:33 <ski> EvanR : yea, `lub' and `lvish' are kinda related to this, as well
20:13:33 <monochrom> Ideal but evil. >:)
20:13:46 ski . o O ( ideavil )
20:14:06 <ski> @hackage lvish
20:14:06 <lambdabot> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/lvish
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21:02:24 <iqubic> Are people here ready for Advent Of Code?
21:11:44 <EvanR> trying to figure out which language to use
21:14:57 <exarkun> have you heard of Oz
21:15:04 <exarkun> I hear it's great
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21:28:21 <iqubic> is there a good way to bulk edit a ton of files? I have DayTemplate.hs on my computer, and I want to create 25 files of the form DayXX.hs, where I take the template, rename it, and modify it a bit for each day.
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21:29:28 <darkling> sed?
21:29:28 <iqubic> https://dpaste.com/EDC3SXXYY
21:29:40 <iqubic> sed might work.
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21:30:27 <iqubic> https://dpaste.com/5A974D9HY
21:30:47 <iqubic> That's the example of what I want to do for Day02.
21:31:07 <hc> sed might work and it's even turing complete and I'm sure there is a sed DSL that transforms to haskell ;p
21:32:33 <iqubic> I want a file called Day02.hs, I want the file name to be to be zero padded when a single digit, but I don't want the number in the last line to be zero padded ever.
21:32:51 <iqubic> But, I want to do that for all 25 days.
21:35:46 <darkling> Write the template with @NUMPADDED@ and @NUM@ in it, and replace those strings. You can do the zero-padding with the shell command printf.
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21:38:08 <iqubic> darkling: I have this: https://dpaste.com/8G7L7NMJE
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21:38:22 <darkling> nump=$(printf %02d $num) sed -e s/@NUM@/$num/g -e s/@NUMPADDED@/$nump/g <template.hs >day$nump.hs
21:38:48 <darkling> I haven't actually run that, but it's close at least.
21:39:01 <iqubic> Can I get that to do all 25 days?
21:39:12 <darkling> You can wrap it in "for num in $(seq 1 25); do ...; done"
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21:41:14 <darkling> Oh, semicolon before the sed.
21:41:31 <darkling> And "export" before the initial "nump="
21:43:14 <yushyin> iqubic: the last time i did aoc in haskell, i used a haskell script (cabal shebang) that generates the 25 files from a template. all in on haskell! ;)
21:43:44 <iqubic> Cool..
21:45:56 <iqubic> I've got it working now. Thanks darkling!
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22:35:44 <hulkavinci> hello
22:36:11 <hulkavinci> anybody have a good resource on doing geometry with haskell? both proofs and 2D diagrams etc
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22:38:54 <monochrom> Haskell? LaTeX? :)
22:39:03 <hulkavinci> ...
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22:43:07 <hulkavinci> I want something dynamic but don't want to focus on graphics programming etc
22:44:05 ← hulkavinci parts (~user@2a00:23ee:2220:2152:6d77:7e45:63d8:9bbd) (sayonara)
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22:45:54 <ski> maybe `diagrams' ?
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23:14:28 <madariaga> hi. I created a project with cabal init and added a new executable in some file, put module Main where at the top and wrote a main function. The thing builds and runs but inside neovim, with haskell-tools, I get a diagnostics message saying "Loading the module [...]/day01.hs failed ... It may not be listed in your .cabal file!". Any idea what is up with this? For what it's worth: if I open the "default" app/Main.hs cabal creates there is no
23:14:28 <madariaga> diagnostic.
23:14:35 <madariaga> sorry for the wall of text.
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23:16:54 <glguy> madariaga: Did you add an executable section to your .cabal file after creating the new executable?
23:17:06 <madariaga> one more thing I did that may be causing this issue: I split build-depends, hs-source-dir and default-language into a common stanza which I then imported into the executable section
23:17:30 <madariaga> glguy: yes. Actually I did this following your advent of code structure lol
23:17:38 <glguy> It'll be easier to see what you did if you'll paste the .cabal file on a pastebin
23:17:41 <glguy> ?pastebin
23:17:41 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
23:17:51 <glguy> like https://paste.tomsmeding.com
23:17:59 <madariaga> one sec
23:22:10 <madariaga> glguy: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/Kw3naVHo
23:22:24 <c_wraith> sharing hs-source-dir between multiple components sounds... risky
23:23:01 <c_wraith> well, not like at risk of things breaking, necessarily, but a lot of unnecessary recompilation
23:23:43 <madariaga> i just want to dump all the advent of code days solutions in the same directory and create one executable for each
23:25:56 <monochrom> It should not be difficult to test the hypothesis "does this common stanza cause the neovim error?".
23:26:14 <monochrom> I don't use neovim so I am not going to be the one testing it.
23:26:21 <madariaga> true. Let me see
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23:30:54 <madariaga> yep it is. Without the common stanza, everything is fine. Furthermore, with the common stanza but bringing hs-source-dirs into hte executable section, the diagnostic goes away but code lenses stop working.
23:31:27 <Axman6> does haskell-tools use hls?
23:31:59 <madariaga> yes.
23:32:22 <madariaga> checkhealth for it shows OK, version 2.4.0.0 running.
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23:33:34 <glguy> madariaga: the way I have the project structured works with hls on my computer for whatever that's worth
23:33:39 <glguy> I don't use neovim , though
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23:34:35 <madariaga> yeah I'm assuming this is an issue with neovim or with haskell-tools. Thanks for checking
23:34:41 <glguy> c_wraith: the hs-source-dir sharing ends up not mattering because none of the executables import each other
23:35:13 <glguy> and there's a separate library for shared code between executables
23:35:40 <c_wraith> that will work in an AOC context, sure. :)
23:36:15 <monochrom> "day01.hs" and other chatters strongly suggest an AOC context. :)
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23:41:00 <Axman6> madariaga: is your hls up to date too?
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23:41:34 <madariaga> as far as ghcup shows, yes. 2.4.0.0 is the highest version it shows
23:42:02 <Axman6> you might want to look at the config options in https://haskell-language-server.readthedocs.io/en/latest/configuration.html too
23:42:09 <madariaga> i went down from ghc 9.8.1 to 9.4.7 in case that caused issues but it's the same.
23:43:38 <madariaga> ah that could work, having an explicit config file. Thanks
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23:43:57 <glguy> Using ghc-9.4.7, vim, coc, and hls things open for me with editor integration
23:44:54 <glguy> so you should be able to test that your editor is configured correctly opening my repository
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23:46:49 <madariaga> thanks. I'll try using the native lsp client in neovim
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All times are in UTC on 2023-11-27.