Logs on 2024-01-11 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 00:04:17 | <beogrif> | as a newcomer, is this what #haskell is usually like |
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| 00:07:41 | <glguy> | There's usually more chatter |
| 00:08:25 | <glguy> | I guess people are otherwise occupied today. Did you have something you wanted to chat about when you joined? |
| 00:10:30 | <jackdk> | It's a lot more on-topic and less bizarre than whatever that was |
| 00:10:49 | <Axman6> | beogrif: #haskell is a lot like any other IRC channel, there are often long periods of silence, with intense discussion occuring sporadically |
| 00:11:05 | <Axman6> | jackdk: dang, what'd I miss? |
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| 00:13:19 | <glguy> | 6 lines of trolling - it's nothing that merits pulling up logs |
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| 00:16:03 | <Axman6> | Yeah that, like, never happens these days (and I kinda miss it, though this channel has always been more immune to it than others I used to frequent) |
| 00:17:50 | <EvanR> | it's 20% category theory 80% boggling at cabal |
| 00:17:59 | <haskellbridge> | 06<sm> I wouldn't say never, there's a small statistical chance of a troll-by or more severe spam attack on any given day |
| 00:19:23 | <haskellbridge> | 06<sm> like all public chat rooms |
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| 00:19:56 | <haskellbridge> | 06<sm> sorry beogrif! welcome! |
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| 00:28:31 | <beogrif> | I wasn’t put off just thought it was funny; and thanks! |
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| 00:37:06 | <beogrif> | glguy: Oh also I didn’t have a topic, was just lurking |
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| 08:43:09 | <phma> | I'm getting two errors on Hackage: "Couldn't figure out LLVM version!" and "could not execute: opt". |
| 08:43:50 | <phma> | This is after the Hackage admin upgraded the compiler and other packages build fine. My package builds fine on my box. |
| 08:44:07 | <phma> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/WringTwistree-0.0.1.0/reports/5 |
| 08:44:14 | <dminuoso_> | phma: We have a #hackage channel here on libera. |
| 08:44:28 | <dminuoso_> | Oh actually #haskell-infrastructure is the right place. |
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| 08:46:15 | <phma> | I get "Cannot join channel (+r)" on #haskell-infrastructure, but successfully joined #hackage. |
| 08:46:39 | <[exa]> | phma: might require that you register with NickServ (iirc) |
| 08:47:17 | <int-e> | phma: you have -fllvm in your ghc-options |
| 08:47:26 | <int-e> | and evidently hackage doesn't have llvm support |
| 08:51:57 | <phma> | ah |
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| 09:50:12 | <tomsmeding> | what is the channel for cabal development again? |
| 09:50:42 | <tomsmeding> | would that be #hackage? |
| 09:51:00 | <int-e> | I think so |
| 09:51:17 | <int-e> | (actually I just checked, yeah it is) |
| 09:51:22 | <tomsmeding> | I just ask every time I need one of the channels for cabal/hackage/etc. because it makes zero sense :') |
| 09:51:46 | <int-e> | #haskell-infrastructure does the trouble shooting |
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| 12:48:46 | <dminuoso_> | tomsmeding: Of course #hackage is for cabal development, what else did you think the channel was for? :-) |
| 12:49:08 | <tomsmeding> | :p |
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| 15:04:59 | <tomsmeding> | text-1.2.5.0 does not have a Data.Text.Encoding method: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/text-1.2.5.0 |
| 15:05:12 | <tomsmeding> | neither in the module listing, nor in the file listing (see the [browse] link) |
| 15:05:25 | <tomsmeding> | even though actually it does! https://hackage.haskell.org/package/text-1.2.5.0/docs/Data-Text-Encoding.html |
| 15:05:35 | <tomsmeding> | and it's also in the cabal file as an exposed module |
| 15:05:43 | <tomsmeding> | where does it come from? |
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| 15:09:27 | <int-e> | Huh? |
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| 15:11:03 | tomsmeding | is probably doing something wrong |
| 15:11:19 | <tomsmeding> | oh er, s/method/module/ |
| 15:11:46 | <int-e> | Sure, but it's clearly listed on https://hackage.haskell.org/package/text-1.2.5.0 for me so I'm confused. Unless JavaScript makes a difference hmm |
| 15:12:04 | tomsmeding | is blind |
| 15:12:17 | <tomsmeding> | too many modules |
| 15:12:19 | <int-e> | Okay. |
| 15:12:21 | <tomsmeding> | was looking in the Internal hierarchy |
| 15:12:24 | <tomsmeding> | thank you |
| 15:13:21 | <int-e> | > "Data.Text.Encoding" `compare` "Data.Text.Internal" |
| 15:13:23 | <lambdabot> | LT |
| 15:13:30 | <yushyin> | ctrl-f ;) |
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| 15:14:52 | <int-e> | Hmm what is a bit weird that the "missing" intermediate modules (like Data.Text.Internal.Encoding) don't have a fully qualified name. |
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| 16:58:21 | <danse-nr3> | not sure how yesod manages to return a value with a monadic expression |
| 16:58:21 | <danse-nr3> | getYesod :: MonadHandler m => m (HandlerSite m) |
| 16:58:22 | <danse-nr3> | this HandlerSite is the web application with its settings, as if the values where stored in a singleton somewhere. Is there a simple way to write a similar type of singleton? |
| 17:02:09 | <danse-nr3> | oh, i guess it uses template haskell to achieve that |
| 17:02:40 | <c_wraith> | template haskell is heavily used in yesod, but it's not part of what's going on there |
| 17:02:52 | <danse-nr3> | phew... |
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| 17:03:19 | <c_wraith> | What's going on there is just a variation on a Reader monad |
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| 17:03:50 | <danse-nr3> | one needs to initialise a Reader with values though, while here they are bound to the type |
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| 17:08:14 | <c_wraith> | Eh. MonadHandler is definitely a Reader monad |
| 17:10:17 | <danse-nr3> | hmm... my bad then. Thanks for the clue |
| 17:10:55 | <c_wraith> | It's a more sophisticated one than normal, but it's definitely a wrapper around functions that query some run-time environment for configuration data |
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| 17:14:31 | <EvanR> | Config -> IO a |
| 17:14:53 | <EvanR> | genius |
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| 18:52:15 | <tomsmeding> | ReaderT IO strikes again |
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| 19:05:54 | <jil`> | hello |
| 19:06:23 | <tomsmeding> | o/ |
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| 19:08:52 | <jil`> | How do I display the documentation for a module in gchi ? says the socket in Network.socket. `:doc socket` says I should recompile with haddock, but I install the network module using cabal. Is there an option to have cabal install the documentation alongside the module ? |
| 19:09:50 | <sclv> | using :doc doesn't require the documentation be placed alongside the module iirc. just compiling with haddocks enabled should suffice to pack the raw haddock information into the object files. |
| 19:09:58 | <tomsmeding> | jil`: if this is a dependency of your project, you should be able to do 'cabal build --enable-documentation' where you'd normally do 'cabal build' |
| 19:10:18 | <sclv> | or that, right :-) |
| 19:10:35 | <tomsmeding> | if you want cabal to _always_ generate documentation by default, you can set the 'documentation' flag to True in ~/.cabal/config |
| 19:11:25 | <tomsmeding> | building documentation takes a little while and takes up some disk space though, so you choose whether the trade-off is worth it |
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| 19:13:10 | <jil`> | I'm not ready to build projects yet, I'm wanted to use ghci explore some functions and their documentation. So I used `cabal install --verbose=3 --lib --package-env . network` to install the module and was hoping to be able to read it's documentation in ghci. |
| 19:13:26 | <tomsmeding> | you could try adding --enable-documentation to that |
| 19:13:37 | <jil`> | ok |
| 19:14:19 | <tomsmeding> | TIL --package-env |
| 19:14:28 | <tomsmeding> | cabal sandboxes still exist after all? |
| 19:15:08 | <geekosaur> | they're not really sandboxes, but can do in a pinch |
| 19:15:11 | <sclv> | package env isnt a sandbox, but its a similar replacement |
| 19:15:38 | <tomsmeding> | okay I got two people piling on me saying that I'm wrong for that |
| 19:15:56 | <sclv> | old school sandboxes had a different actual package database. this version they all share the store, but the env file picks out a "slice" of it as a "virtual database" |
| 19:16:04 | <tomsmeding> | I see |
| 19:16:07 | <sclv> | enables more sharing |
| 19:16:17 | <tomsmeding> | from my perspective that sounds like observationally the same thing |
| 19:16:28 | <tomsmeding> | apart from two things: performance and disk space management |
| 19:16:33 | <sclv> | very close -- unfortunately the new version has a somewhat worse ui |
| 19:16:53 | <tomsmeding> | it's funny that you have to 'cabal install --lib --package-env . base' before anything works |
| 19:16:56 | <geekosaur> | they're also a little unstable, with various cabal versions you may run into issues with packages being hidden that shouldn't be |
| 19:17:11 | <sclv> | tomsmeding: we fixed that in the most recent cabal, but its a process of successive refinement |
| 19:17:24 | <tomsmeding> | I see! |
| 19:17:56 | <sclv> | the way they Work Very Well is if you have the list of all the stuff you want in an env and you install it all at once. the rough edges are all about iteratively adding more stuff |
| 19:18:20 | <tomsmeding> | oh hey I get base in there, indeed |
| 19:18:34 | <tomsmeding> | what's hard about adding more stuff? |
| 19:18:55 | <tomsmeding> | I mean, apart from the usual problem of "this thing is incompatible with the set of packages you have so far, good luck" which is not really cabal's fault |
| 19:18:57 | <sclv> | we fixed most of the issues, but there's complexities about making sure its all compat with the existing stuff |
| 19:19:31 | <sclv> | there's one remaining corner case where you can accidentally get a diamond conflict without a good UI for understanding it or handling it |
| 19:19:43 | <sclv> | again, a process of successive refinement.. |
| 19:21:00 | <sclv> | basically if i install `foo` depending on containers, then foo goes in the env, but containers doesn't. but then if i try to install containers at a different version it works, because it doesn't notice a conflict, and now the `foo` and the `containers` in the env don't work together. |
| 19:21:07 | <sclv> | so we probably need to install transitive deps into the env |
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| 19:24:00 | <tomsmeding> | oh right |
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| 19:24:17 | <tomsmeding> | can't cabal see what the dependencies of a particular environment entry are? |
| 19:24:52 | <tomsmeding> | like, given name-version-hash, what are all the [name-version-hash]es that it was built with |
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| 19:29:06 | <geekosaur> | it can, but you don't always want them |
| 19:29:20 | <geekosaur> | usually you don't care about the dependencies |
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| 19:34:20 | <tomsmeding> | yes but I mean, as you say you typically don't want the transitive dependencies in the env as well |
| 19:34:42 | <tomsmeding> | so if cabal can query the whole dependency tree of a single env entry, then cabal can reconstruct the entire dependency graph of the environment |
| 19:34:46 | <tomsmeding> | and check consistency with that |
| 19:35:32 | <sclv> | yes, cabal can do that. this is not a deep conceptual flaw that is unfixable. its a bug that has not been fixed. |
| 19:35:51 | <tomsmeding> | right :) |
| 19:36:07 | <tomsmeding> | thinking about it more it definitely sounds like a finicky thing to get right in a large codebase |
| 19:36:08 | <sclv> | that said, i don't know that we can pull the deps just from the name-version-hash |
| 19:36:15 | <sclv> | hashes are one way :-P |
| 19:36:29 | <tomsmeding> | the hash is a key in the global store, right? |
| 19:36:45 | <tomsmeding> | sure, the info is not _in_ the hash :p |
| 19:36:48 | <sclv> | i just don't know if we have the full linked-dependency-data lying around in the current datamodel |
| 19:36:54 | <tomsmeding> | right |
| 19:37:03 | <sclv> | it might just be like, in the linker info, and we don't want to deal with that |
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| 19:37:20 | <tomsmeding> | because cabal hasn't needed it before this |
| 19:37:32 | <tomsmeding> | you re-configure from zero and then apply memoisati |
| 19:37:35 | <tomsmeding> | -on |
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| 19:49:11 | <geekosaur> | isn't it in plan.json? |
| 19:49:38 | <tomsmeding> | you don't get a plan.json for a --lib env |
| 19:49:45 | <geekosaur> | mm, may not have that if installing… that |
| 19:49:55 | <tomsmeding> | but yes |
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| 19:50:17 | <tomsmeding> | at least, name-version-hash triples for the whole dependency graph, which is presumably enough :p |
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