Logs on 2024-01-16 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 00:01:33 | <glguy> | https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/users_guide/separate_compilation.html#output-files |
| 00:03:48 | <qrpnxz> | Yes this is the kind of thing I was looking for in the GHC manual thank you. If y'all know other resources about the content of these files i'd appreciate it. |
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| 00:17:01 | <geekosaur> | qrpnxz, https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/commentary/compiler/iface-files |
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| 01:01:43 | <qrpnxz> | thanks :D |
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| 03:03:28 | <platz> | Yesod experts: I'm overriding Yesod jsAttributes to try to put type="module" on the JavaScript script tag generated for julius QuasiQuoter, but changing it seems to do nothing |
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| 03:32:16 | <c_wraith> | platz: is there also a jsAttributesHandler defined? |
| 03:37:55 | <platz> | c_wraith: I did some more digging, it looks like |
| 03:37:56 | <platz> | [03:37:43] [platz(+Ziw)] [3:fn/#haskell(+Cnt)] |
| 03:38:32 | <platz> | oops... I meant to say, jsAttributes is only used if you use it on a file. the quasiquoter doesn't appear to use jsAttributes |
| 03:39:07 | <c_wraith> | oh. well that's exciting. |
| 03:39:21 | <platz> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/yesod-core-1.6.25.1/docs/src/Yesod.Core.Class.Yesod.html#local-6989586621679397266 |
| 03:40:09 | <platz> | I can just use hamlet instead of julius then to add the script tag manually |
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| 10:47:16 | <Everard> | Hello, I'm having trouble with building GHC's 9.8.1 version from the gitlab source. I switch to the 9.8.1 release branch, update the submodules and then run the build. I get this error: Warning: Requested index-state 2023-03-30T10:00:00Z is newer than |
| 10:47:16 | <Everard> | 'hackage.haskell.org'! Falling back to older state (2023-03-30T08:23:24Z). |
| 10:47:17 | <Everard> | Resolving dependencies... |
| 10:47:17 | <Everard> | Error: cabal: Could not resolve dependencies: |
| 10:47:18 | <Everard> | [__0] trying: hadrian-0.1.0.0 (user goal) |
| 10:47:18 | <Everard> | [__1] trying: hadrian:+selftest |
| 10:47:19 | <Everard> | [__2] trying: QuickCheck-2.14.2 (dependency of hadrian +selftest) |
| 10:47:19 | <Everard> | [__3] trying: splitmix-0.1.0.4 (dependency of QuickCheck) |
| 10:47:20 | <Everard> | [__4] next goal: base (dependency of hadrian) |
| 10:47:20 | <Everard> | [__4] rejecting: base-4.19.0.0/installed-f417 (conflict: splitmix => base>=4.3 |
| 10:47:21 | <Everard> | && <4.19) |
| 10:47:21 | <Everard> | [__4] rejecting: base-4.18.0.0, |
| 10:47:22 | <Everard> | And then it goes on to reject more base-4.xx.0.0 versions. Is this a simple version mismanagement issue on my part? How can I got about fixing this? I'm having trouble analyzing what exactly is going wrong here |
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| 10:52:54 | <kaol> | Just a guess but maybe splitmix-0.1.0.5 might work. It has relaxed the base upper bound to allow 4.19. |
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| 11:00:56 | <danse-nr3> | please use a pastebin in the future Everard |
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| 11:09:56 | <int-e> | The simple answer is that ghc-9.8.1 is too new to build ghc-9.8.1 out of the box. |
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| 11:15:02 | <Everard> | Thanks for the heads up danse-nr3, my bad |
| 11:15:36 | <Everard> | Thanks int-e, switching to an older version seems to have fixed the issue |
| 11:16:41 | <danse-nr3> | v |
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| 11:19:34 | <kaol> | One less company using Haskell. A new majority owner and they're replacing all of ours with their boring stack with a huge team. |
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| 11:20:18 | <danse-nr3> | can the company name be mentioned? |
| 11:21:04 | → | vglfr joins (~vglfr@150.pool85-48-57.dynamic.orange.es) |
| 11:21:15 | <kaol> | HBL (formerly KSF Media). |
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| 11:28:05 | <danse-nr3> | i find nothing on github with that name. I am sorry for the company, but this time the haskell community should not be too damaged at least |
| 11:30:28 | <kaol> | Well sorry to inconvenience you then. |
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| 11:32:35 | <kaol> | Let me delete the code I did for hs-jose while I'm at it since I used company time for that. |
| 11:33:03 | <ent> | oh, that's a shame, HBL that is |
| 11:34:18 | <ent> | one of the few haskell companies around here |
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| 11:41:51 | <danse-nr3> | well i don't mean i am not sorry for this happening, but i worried it could be a more involved company |
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| 12:21:45 | <bwe> | parseTest (parseAnywhere $ decimal <* space <* "moons") "3 moons" -- megaparsec |
| 12:21:48 | <bwe> | returns 3 |
| 12:22:03 | <bwe> | parseTest (parseAnywhere $ string "foo" *> decimal <* space <* "moons") "foo 3 moons" |
| 12:22:32 | <bwe> | ^ fails "unexpected end of input expecting white space" |
| 12:23:20 | <bwe> | what's the right approach to allow for foo in the beginning of the pattern to match? |
| 12:26:31 | <kaol> | optional (string "foo" *> space) *> decimal ... |
| 12:27:08 | <bwe> | why does it even fail if "foo" is there in the string? |
| 12:27:36 | <kaol> | Add *> space |
| 12:27:46 | <bwe> | :) |
| 12:29:42 | <bwe> | now, if I gradually want to make it more flexible, `many anySingle` should match "foo" |
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| 12:29:51 | <bwe> | parseTest (parseAnywhere $ optional (many anySingle *> space) *> decimal <* space <* "moons") "foo 3 moons" |
| 12:30:16 | <bwe> | unexpected eoi; expecting integer or white space -- the space is now there |
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| 12:30:47 | <ncf> | many anySingle will consume everything, and you haven't asked for backtracking |
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| 12:31:53 | <bwe> | ncf: right, I want to let `many anySingle` consume input UNTIL the parser bumps into a decimal |
| 12:32:28 | <bwe> | how do I let the parser tell that? I mean try (many anySingle) doesn't. |
| 12:32:46 | <kaol> | noneOf ['0'..'9'] |
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| 12:35:18 | <[exa]> | bwe: to do that super properly you may want to do: somethingsomething >> lookAhead notDigit |
| 12:35:36 | <[exa]> | or perhaps better with <* in the middle |
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| 12:36:02 | <Everard> | Hello! I just finished compiling GHC from source, but when ran it complains about the version of base. Isn't that included in the GHC source? |
| 12:36:03 | <Everard> | https://pastebin.com/feCkabPN |
| 12:36:03 | <Everard> | Could this be a conflict between my existing GHCup 9.8.1 install and the one I built from source? |
| 12:36:30 | <[exa]> | bwe: ah there's also the nice `notFollowedBy`, so e.g. `many digit <* notFollowedBy digit` might work |
| 12:37:22 | <haskellbridge> | 14<maerwald> delete /home/user/.ghc/x86_64-linux-9.8.1/environments/default |
| 12:38:14 | <ncf> | [exa]: that's not what we're trying to do, but `many digit` will consume digits until there are no digits left, so notFollowedBy digit will always succeed |
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| 12:39:49 | <[exa]> | oh i see, sorry |
| 12:40:26 | <Everard> | +haskellbridge thanks! |
| 12:40:44 | <bwe> | I mean, why is it soo hard to find moon 3 anywhere in the string "<some>moon 3<some>", provided the parser already works for "moon 3" fine? -- XY-problem |
| 12:42:06 | <ncf> | because that requires backtracking, which megaparsec doesn't do by default, because that's not really a common use case for parsers - you might want a regex engine instead |
| 12:42:21 | <[exa]> | bwe: the first <some> eats it carelessly |
| 12:42:24 | <ncf> | or use a backtracking parser combinator library, like ReadP |
| 12:45:16 | <[exa]> | btw this should work too, but I'd be concerned about whether it's the best way to go: many (notFollowedBy (string "some") >> digit) |
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| 12:45:39 | <bwe> | ncf: you recommend mixing ReadP with megaparsec? |
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| 12:47:06 | <bwe> | ncf: well, I can have it backtrack with `try` -- how would I make it work? |
| 12:47:49 | <bwe> | my current (failing) approach: https://bpa.st/LVSQ |
| 12:51:00 | <ncf> | bwe: mixing different libraries will not work |
| 12:51:10 | <ncf> | i think you need `many` to be backtracking here |
| 12:52:09 | <ncf> | well you could try something like: go = try p <|> anySingle *> go |
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| 12:54:08 | <kaol> | many (anySingle *> notFollowedBy space1) |
| 12:55:30 | <[exa]> | kaol: the other way no? this won't eat the last Single |
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| 12:57:11 | <ncf> | i mean if you're gonna do that... takeWhileP Nothing (not . isSpace) |
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| 12:58:15 | <ncf> | or many (anySingleBut (satisfy isSpace)) |
| 12:58:17 | <[exa]> | (also many (satisfy $ not.isSpace) ) |
| 12:58:26 | <[exa]> | yap^ |
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| 13:01:05 | <kaol> | flip ($) (anySingle *> notFollowedBy space1) many |
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| 13:01:15 | <kaol> | Sorry, bad humor. |
| 13:01:44 | <ncf> | huh, parseTest takeRest "foo" in ghci is giving me ambiguous type errors for the error type |
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| 13:06:16 | <ncf> | bwe: parseTest' (skipManyTill anySingle (string "moon 3") <* many anySingle) "blah moon 3 blah" |
| 13:06:37 | <ncf> | manyTill and friends are from Control.Monad.Combinators |
| 13:08:46 | <ncf> | i guess a key ingredient in this is that `string` automatically backtracks |
| 13:09:02 | <bwe> | so, this is the first solution: https://bpa.st/DERA |
| 13:09:49 | <ncf> | right, parseAnyWhere (string s) should be equivalent to skipManyTill anySingle (string s) |
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| 13:10:15 | <bwe> | it doesn't fail in the second example where the number is part of the previous word - rule: a number should considered as such if it's the first of the string or preceded by a space |
| 13:11:06 | <bwe> | ncf: skipManyTill is not part of megaparsec, is that so? |
| 13:11:15 | <ncf> | <ncf> manyTill and friends are from Control.Monad.Combinators |
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| 13:11:27 | <ncf> | should be reëxported by Text.Megaparsec |
| 13:14:04 | <bwe> | confirmed - works |
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| 13:15:38 | <bwe> | thanks up until here, ncf, kaol, [exa] |
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| 13:27:00 | <bwe> | the current implementation: https://bpa.st/56QA |
| 13:27:30 | <bwe> | point-free version: https://bpa.st/T4PQ |
| 13:27:41 | <bwe> | So, how can make the second doctest pass? |
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| 13:28:24 | <ncf> | skipManyTill anySingle . try |
| 13:29:57 | <bwe> | no, that still returns 3 while it should fail since the 3 to be considered part of the previous word "bar3" |
| 13:30:15 | <bwe> | "foo bar3 moons foo" is the input string |
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| 13:31:04 | <bwe> | here, since 3 is neither the beginning of the string, nor it's preceded by a space, it's deemed not to belong to "moon" |
| 13:32:14 | <bwe> | well, the solution here would be to drop words instead of characters |
| 13:32:21 | <bwe> | (single characters) |
| 13:32:36 | <bwe> | how do I skip complete words with megaparsec? |
| 13:33:00 | <bwe> | that's the actual problem! |
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| 13:33:46 | <ncf> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/megaparsec-9.6.1/docs/Text-Megaparsec-Char-Lexer.html#v:lexeme |
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| 13:39:49 | <bwe> | I don't understand - even with reading https://markkarpov.com/tutorial/megaparsec.html#forcing-consumption-of-input-with-eof |
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| 13:40:27 | <bwe> | what is lexeme doing? and how can it solve my requirement? |
| 13:42:59 | <bwe> | try parser, otherwise drop until next space, then call function itself recursively; that's actually what I want |
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| 14:04:06 | <carbolymer> | I'm a maintainer of a package on hackage, but when I try to upload sdist tarball I'm getting an error that I'm not an uploader |
| 14:04:47 | <carbolymer> | maybe I should ask on #hackage... |
| 14:09:52 | <bwe> | update: I've got a prototype working for single word: https://bpa.st/QYWA -- how can I make it work for any number of preceding words to be skipped? |
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| 14:26:06 | <kaol> | bwe: I'm not at all sure what your imports are for that snippet. It'd help if I ran a test. Maybe this: many (many (satisfy (not . isSpace)) *> space) *> decimal |
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| 15:24:58 | <bwe> | kaol: https://bpa.st/SRWQ |
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| 15:49:37 | <anon> | Hello, I have a question regarding the Prelude/Control.Monad; why does the bind operator (>>=) have its reverse (=<<), but the bind-and-disregard operator (>>) not have its own flipped version (<<)? |
| 15:51:01 | <ncf> | there's (<*) |
| 15:51:15 | <[exa]> | anon: one of the mysteries that science cannot explain. I'd say it gets super awkward w.r.t. operator priorities and associativity. You can use <* with similar success |
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| 15:53:06 | <anon> | Oh yeah, whoops, my bad; I forgot about that function, thanks! I tend to write (=<<) a lot more than (>>=), so I always just got confused on why that notation/connection wasn't made. |
| 15:53:38 | <anon> | But, I'm guessing (*>) and (>>) are equivalent, right? |
| 15:53:56 | <[exa]> | AFAIK they should be, except ofc for the typeclass on that |
| 15:54:22 | <anon> | Ok, thank you! |
| 15:54:42 | <[exa]> | btw <* isn't a complete "flip" afaik, the actions are still executed left to right |
| 15:55:10 | <[exa]> | which wouldn't be the case with (flip (<<)) |
| 15:58:46 | <anon> | Yes, you're right; `flip (>>) :: Monad m => m b -> m a -> m b` whereas `(<*) :: Applicative f => f a -> f b -> f a`, so they're not really equivalent. |
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| 16:02:37 | <[exa]> | semi-related: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/transformers-0.6.1.1/docs/Control-Applicative-Backwards.html#t:Backwards |
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| 16:29:31 | <kaol> | Let's get silly while we're at it. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/tardis-0.5.0/docs/Control-Monad-Tardis.html |
| 16:31:54 | <c_wraith> | anon: fwiw, those types aren't different. the types of those two operations don't communicate the difference between them. |
| 16:34:48 | <kaol> | And then there's https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.19.0.0/docs/Control-Applicative.html#v:-60--42--42--62- (<**>) which is not the same as flip (<*>) even though the type signatures are identical. |
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| 16:42:57 | <kaol> | Hm. How come there's no (<**). Not that I've ever felt the need for it ever. |
| 16:44:37 | <zwro> | kaol: there's nothing silly about the tardis monad! |
| 16:44:58 | <duncan> | Wake me up when we have the dtrace monad |
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| 16:59:07 | <Ashkan> | Hello |
| 16:59:08 | <Ashkan> | I have a feeling I'm kinda misunderstanding how Haskell talks to C and the whole marshalling of `Ptr`s. Basically it boils down to this: does this involve copying the data , possibly from GHC's "managed" heap into some other part of memory, when I call a foreign function from within my Haskell code ? |
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| 17:01:30 | <Ashkan> | Case in point: assume I'm trying to talk to a video codec lib in c, say av1 or h264. The function I'm interested in reads a video file and provides a means to give me back each frame in C via some ptr or something. If I want to do something with that frame in Haskell then does this involve copying the whole frame at some point from C to Haskell ? |
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| 17:11:25 | <[exa]> | Ashkan: AFAIK stuff pointed by Ptr is already "marshalled out", and FFI shouldn't copy data when you pass Ptr's through |
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| 17:13:21 | <[exa]> | the actual memory place is not really specified by the Ptr; you can get one using `allocaBytes` on the RTS heap, and you can get one by calling the usual `malloc` from libc |
| 17:14:06 | <[exa]> | for the video usecase, you should be able to read directly from the Ptr using relatively sane interfaces |
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| 17:15:27 | <kuribas> | What I don't like about OO: all your definitions must be part of the class, and go in the same file, you get no separation of concerns. |
| 17:15:38 | <[exa]> | Ashkan: e.g. here: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/vector-0.13.1.0/docs/Data-Vector-Storable.html#v:unsafeFromForeignPtr0 |
| 17:16:13 | <kuribas> | Unless the language supports extending classes. |
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| 17:17:28 | <[exa]> | Ashkan: (ForeignPtr is "just" a Ptr but with finalizers attached, so that it may get GC'd if required) |
| 17:17:40 | <Ashkan> | exarkun tnx. so at least in principle I can get a pointer to `CChar` from the video usecase without copying it first to RTS heap ? |
| 17:18:19 | <[exa]> | yes if the FFI functions returns e.g. char*, you should be able to perfectly get that as `Ptr CChar` |
| 17:18:35 | <[exa]> | and you can wrap that in a ForeignPtr interface if you want haskell to call the free() for you later |
| 17:18:42 | <exarkun> | [exa]: want to swap nicks |
| 17:18:57 | <[exa]> | exarkun: folks somehow don't [ |
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| 17:20:03 | <exarkun> | I wonder if having punctuation in your given name is a predictor for recognizing punctuation in an online nick (I have some in mine) |
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| 17:21:34 | <[exa]> | I can try with ě |
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| 19:16:47 | <^|{`-}_{> | My nick is only punctuations and no letters. What does that predict about me? >:) |
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| 19:19:19 | <shapr> | You have irregular expressions? |
| 19:19:32 | <glguy> | I was going to guess that they couldn't spell, but they left |
| 19:19:33 | <monochrom> | haha |
| 19:19:47 | <shapr> | it was monochrom all along! |
| 19:19:55 | <glguy> | oh, yes |
| 19:19:58 | <monochrom> | Yes it was me from another shell host. |
| 19:20:10 | <mauke> | !- ^|{`-}_{ [trebla@shell.vex.net] has joined #haskell |
| 19:20:14 | <mauke> | very subtle :-) |
| 19:22:13 | <Hecate> | haha |
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| 19:27:10 | <mauke> | <kuribas> What I don't like about OO: all your definitions must be part of the class, and go in the same file <- only if your language doesn't let you spread classes across multiple files |
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| 19:28:19 | <monochrom> | Which ones let you spread a class across multiple files? |
| 19:28:27 | <peutri> | common lisp |
| 19:28:58 | <mauke> | C++ |
| 19:29:01 | <mauke> | Perl |
| 19:35:02 | <[exa]> | also anything that monkeypatches (pythons, rubys) |
| 19:37:11 | <petrichor> | there's also inheritance, composition and other mechanisms for splitting up classes into smaller units |
| 19:42:02 | <[exa]> | petrichor: just curious, how do you _compose_ classes? (except from inheriting 2, which is still kinda inheritance) |
| 19:43:42 | <[exa]> | (I had this rant on OOP once that objects literally don't compose per se, the only "operation" you can do on objects is containing other stuff and looking like something simpler (via interfaces)) |
| 19:48:30 | <kaol> | Objects have no laws. Utterly useless. |
| 19:50:33 | <petrichor> | >_< |
| 19:51:53 | <mauke> | "compose" usually means containing an object of another class |
| 19:51:59 | <mauke> | and maybe delegating to it |
| 19:52:38 | <petrichor> | ^ this (but mauke said it more clearly) |
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| 19:55:09 | <mauke> | some languages have roles/traits, which are like class fragments that can be "composed into" a class |
| 19:55:15 | <johnw> | agreegation |
| 19:55:18 | <johnw> | aggregation |
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| 21:27:38 | <earthy> | monochrom: C# does, through extension methods |
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| 21:29:39 | <earthy> | Smalltalk obviously is the odd duck out, but it allows you to define class methods all over the place... but it's not really different files as suc |
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| 22:03:54 | <tinjamin> | hello |
| 22:04:23 | <Axman6> | hello! |
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| 22:05:08 | <tinjamin> | im about to embark on the haskell journey using haskell from first principle and they suggested i hop on the irc so here i am lol |
| 22:06:09 | <Axman6> | well welcome, feel free to ask questions when you get stuck |
| 22:06:20 | <tinjamin> | will do o7 |
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| 22:10:22 | <c_wraith> | or even if you're not stuck and just are like "why?" :) |
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| 22:42:47 | <shapr> | @quote c_wraith |
| 22:42:47 | <lambdabot> | c_wraith says: I said that? hm. |
| 22:42:50 | <shapr> | haha |
| 22:42:55 | <Axman6> | Yeah the "why" questions are often the most enlightening |
| 22:42:58 | <shapr> | hello tinjamin, how you doin? |
| 22:43:14 | <c_wraith> | I said that? huh. |
| 22:43:21 | shapr | grins |
| 22:43:36 | <shapr> | @remember c_wraith I said that? huh. |
| 22:43:36 | <lambdabot> | It is forever etched in my memory. |
| 22:43:47 | <shapr> | @quote Axman6 |
| 22:43:48 | <lambdabot> | Axman6 says: -ddump-occur-anal <- another terrible name... |
| 22:43:54 | <c_wraith> | I'm recursing! |
| 22:43:56 | <shapr> | ooh, yup |
| 22:43:58 | <shapr> | @quote Axman6 |
| 22:43:58 | <lambdabot> | Axman6 says: {-# PRAGMA ThisShitNeedsMoarFast #-} |
| 22:43:58 | <Axman6> | oh my! |
| 22:44:00 | <shapr> | haha |
| 22:44:11 | shapr | vents energy |
| 22:44:16 | <shapr> | @quote earthy |
| 22:44:16 | <lambdabot> | earthy says: the haskell standard prelude is ... a treasure trove. ;) but it does require breaking your mind and reassembling the pieces to unlock the trove |
| 22:44:19 | <shapr> | ha |
| 22:44:28 | <shapr> | @quote glguy |
| 22:44:28 | <lambdabot> | glguy says: data structures are for civil engineers |
| 22:44:36 | <shapr> | @quote johnw |
| 22:44:36 | <lambdabot> | johnw says: they said at this year's Fibonnaci conference that it was as good as the last two combined |
| 22:44:39 | <shapr> | hahah |
| 22:44:47 | <shapr> | ok, I'll go back to reading about databases now |
| 22:44:51 | <Axman6> | =) |
| 22:48:37 | <Axman6> | I'm alwaqys surprised my old quotes are there, I always expected they'd disappear through changes of lambdabot keeping |
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| 22:50:35 | <mauke> | @quote mauke |
| 22:50:35 | <lambdabot> | mauke says: order now and you'll also get True, False and ((), ()) for free! |
| 22:50:50 | <shapr> | Last I checked, int-e is the keeper of lambdabot, and thus the keeper of the quotes |
| 22:51:05 | <shapr> | abs () |
| 22:51:10 | <shapr> | that's an absolute unit, right? |
| 22:51:14 | <geekosaur> | right, but it's changed hands a few times. back in the day it was dons |
| 22:51:18 | <shapr> | yeah, true |
| 22:52:20 | <mauke> | @quote mauke fmap |
| 22:52:20 | <lambdabot> | mauke says: I just added fmap until lambdabot stopped complaining |
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All times are in UTC on 2024-01-16.