Logs on 2024-01-17 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 00:13:47 | <sm> | Axman6: and also at https://haskell-links.org |
| 00:14:18 | <sm> | oh! @quote and @where are different, my mistake |
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| 01:29:21 | <tinjamin> | howdy shapr |
| 01:29:53 | <tinjamin> | good to see the community bussing and alive! |
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| 02:23:04 | <Axman6> | sWe do our best, but tinjamin keep in mind that irc is often quiet for long periods - if you have a question, just ask it and people will help |
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| 12:12:52 | <tinjamin> | what is the final reduced form of this expression? |
| 12:13:06 | <tinjamin> | https://chat.ndlug.org/uploads/bdec807f5c54e5b6/2024-01-17-071433.jpg |
| 12:13:46 | <tinjamin> | i got (λx.xy)(y)(λx.xz) |
| 12:14:22 | <tinjamin> | but idk if u can do another reduction to get yy(λx.xz) |
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| 12:16:30 | <ncf> | sure |
| 12:18:06 | <tinjamin> | wait so did u get yy(λx.xz)? |
| 12:19:57 | <ncf> | yes! |
| 12:21:29 | <tinjamin> | sweet, thanks |
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| 12:22:55 | <sprout> | there's only one unbound variable in that expression and that's z |
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| 12:25:40 | <ncf> | y is also free |
| 12:27:11 | <tinjamin> | ncf: i assume the third y? |
| 12:27:37 | <ncf> | yes |
| 12:27:47 | <tinjamin> | do people actual write haskell code that looks this or is this mathematical jargon |
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| 12:28:27 | <danse-nr3> | can be ported to something that reads the same, but one does not do replacement while programming, if not in your head |
| 12:28:36 | <danse-nr3> | also, types |
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| 12:35:01 | <sprout> | oh right |
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| 12:41:39 | <Axman6> | tinjamin: only as an exercise, but the ideas are important, because it's strongly related to how Haskell executes |
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| 12:45:58 | <tinjamin> | got it o7 |
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| 13:25:18 | <shapr> | tinjamin: GOOD MORNING! |
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| 13:25:23 | shapr | hops randomly |
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| 13:25:48 | <shapr> | god morgon alla! |
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| 13:30:13 | <[exa]> | hello shapr. |
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| 13:35:09 | <shapr> | hyvää huomenta [exa] ! |
| 13:35:34 | <shapr> | mitä kuluu? |
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| 13:38:49 | <shapr> | hej hopp waleee, hur mår du idag? |
| 13:39:51 | <tinjamin> | gm shapr |
| 13:40:23 | <shapr> | How's code treating you? |
| 13:41:41 | <tinjamin> | i haven't coded yet lolol |
| 13:41:53 | <tinjamin> | just finished chapter 1 of haskell from first principle |
| 13:41:57 | <shapr> | oh good! |
| 13:42:01 | <shapr> | What do you think? |
| 13:42:10 | <tinjamin> | i enjoy it |
| 13:42:19 | <tinjamin> | i hope the paradigm shift clicks for me |
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| 13:43:46 | <shapr> | When I started I came from Python and I expected to use a loop counter to carry around state for me. |
| 13:44:09 | <shapr> | I found it difficult to make the jump from explicit loops to implicit control flow. |
| 13:44:42 | <shapr> | For example, I would have written Python style fibonacci with an explicit lookup into the "previous element" |
| 13:45:09 | <shapr> | Since the function for fibonacci is 1,1, (sum of the two previous elements), (sum of the two previous elements) |
| 13:45:15 | <shapr> | like 1,1,2,3,5 |
| 13:45:47 | <shapr> | The first time I saw the recursive lazy list fibonacci, my brain was very stretched! |
| 13:47:29 | <shapr> | > let fibonacci = 1:1: zipWith (+) fibonacci (tail fibonacci) in take 30 fibonacci |
| 13:47:30 | <lambdabot> | [1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89,144,233,377,610,987,1597,2584,4181,6765,10946,17... |
| 13:47:34 | <dminuoso_> | Yeah I think expicit recursion is so much simpler for a bunch of reasons. There's no magic implicit "oh it jumps from here to there, and then magically things change their value, but others dont" which you tap into to cause behavior. |
| 13:48:14 | <dminuoso_> | Though that example goes into recursion schemes |
| 13:48:25 | <dminuoso_> | Which I hate again. While concise, its just too dense |
| 13:49:49 | <tinjamin> | interesting, i don't really understand it yet but hopefully soon 😅 |
| 13:49:50 | <shapr> | dminuoso_: do you have a more instructive / illustrative example? |
| 13:50:33 | <shapr> | tinjamin: you can lazily construct a list |
| 13:50:45 | <shapr> | > somelist = 1 : 2 : 3 : [] in somelist |
| 13:50:47 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:10: error: parse error on input ‘=’ |
| 13:50:52 | <shapr> | > let somelist = 1 : 2 : 3 : [] in somelist |
| 13:50:54 | <lambdabot> | [1,2,3] |
| 13:51:07 | <tinjamin> | shapr: i don't program a lot so my knowledge of python and C is limited. I have a background in pure math up to calc 3 and linear algebra so that's what i'm hoping to get me through lolol |
| 13:51:23 | <shapr> | > let manyOnes = 1 : manyOnes in take 50 manyOnes |
| 13:51:25 | <lambdabot> | [1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1... |
| 13:51:32 | <shapr> | tinjamin: this is a great time to start! |
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| 17:13:13 | <waleee> | shapr: lång oom-låsning på hemmadesktopen och snöfall, objektivt var dagen lite skit |
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| 17:51:59 | <shapr> | waleee: finns också snöfall har i Boston. Min dator har förmycket RAM så ingen oom |
| 17:52:09 | <shapr> | men kanske behover en ny dator med MER ram |
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| 18:05:20 | sprout | is now known as sproutX |
| 18:06:51 | <EvanR> | 🐏 |
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| 18:28:46 | <tinjamin> | friends is there a difference between weak head normal form and lazy evaluation? if so, what's the difference? |
| 18:29:16 | <tinjamin> | also what the heck is (\f --> (1, 2 + f)) 2 |
| 18:29:28 | <tinjamin> | https://chat.ndlug.org/uploads/1fd52f7db7775758/2024-01-17-133035.jpg |
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| 18:32:06 | <johnw> | WHNF refers to the structure of a term, and how it has been reduced |
| 18:33:00 | <johnw> | lazy evaluation is a strategy that tends to reduce terms to WHNF; but one is a process and the other is a classification |
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| 18:34:01 | <tinjamin> | okay that makes sense, thanks! |
| 18:38:42 | <geekosaur> | as to your second question, it's a lambda (anonymous function) applied to a value |
| 18:39:05 | <geekosaur> | well, reading --> as -> it is |
| 18:39:19 | <tinjamin> | yeah that was my typo |
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| 18:41:07 | <tinjamin> | geekosaur: how come when I load it into GHCi it complains about a parse error? |
| 18:42:10 | <geekosaur> | works here https://paste.tomsmeding.com/BZDUrWnd |
| 18:42:12 | <tinjamin> | wait never mind, it works when I enter it directly into GHCi |
| 18:42:33 | <tinjamin> | lol thanks mate |
| 18:42:35 | <geekosaur> | if you just slap it in a file it won't work because files contain bindings, not raw expressions |
| 18:42:55 | <tinjamin> | yeah, thats what I did originally |
| 18:43:00 | <geekosaur> | evaluation starts with the binding `main :: IO a` |
| 18:43:19 | <geekosaur> | this is more like C/C++/Java than Python/JS |
| 18:43:50 | <tinjamin> | hmmm okay |
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| 19:58:12 | <EvanR> | evaluate main to get an IO action, execute it, which may involve more evaluation to deal with the result, repeat |
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| 23:26:17 | <pie_> | Whats cool in haskell these days |
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| 23:29:40 | <Axman6> | Functions are pretty sweet |
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| 23:30:25 | <johnw> | pie_: post qualified imports :) |
| 23:30:56 | <EvanR> | those are terrible awful and very bad!!! |
| 23:31:09 | <johnw> | said everyone about every new feature I currently love! |
| 23:31:09 | <pie_> | haha |
| 23:31:24 | <johnw> | I remember similar sentiments around LambdaCase, now a mainstay |
| 23:31:35 | <pie_> | now that haskell isnt fashionable because everyone just uses rust or whatever |
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| 23:32:22 | <EvanR> | I just realized why rust comes up wherever haskell might be expected |
| 23:32:40 | <EvanR> | despite them being completely opposite ends of the spectrum |
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| 23:33:02 | <pie_> | Axman6: true true |
| 23:33:22 | <EvanR> | both force you to write the code totally different from normal |
| 23:33:26 | <pie_> | haha |
| 23:33:45 | <EvanR> | which is interesting to people who are bored |
| 23:33:57 | <pie_> | :thinking: |
| 23:34:17 | <caconym> | boredom is definitely why i learned haskell back in the day and why i learned rust slightly less back in the day |
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| 23:34:27 | <caconym> | very productive boredom, as it turned out |
| 23:34:32 | <pie_> | ah the problems of actually good programmers :P |
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| 23:38:32 | <Axman6> | johnw: amen, long live post qualified imports! |
| 23:39:40 | Axman6 | will fight EvanR and jackdk on this one |
| 23:39:42 | <monochrom> | Unpopular opinion: I love BlockArguments. |
| 23:40:13 | <EvanR> | it's the perfect thing to take a strong position on since it's so inconsequential |
| 23:40:34 | <jackdk> | I still don't see the payoff for ImportQualifiedPost (or is it PostQualifiedImports? Or ImportPostQualified?). LambdaCase is beautiful, and while BlockArguments still seems a bit odd to me it makes certain constructions vastly simpler |
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| 23:41:10 | <EvanR> | QualifiedImportPost |
| 23:41:32 | <EvanR> | QualifiedImportPostImportQualified |
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| 23:45:41 | <jackdk> | {-# LANGUAGE ImportsAtTheBottomOfTheFile #-} |
| 23:46:16 | <EvanR> | actually... |
| 23:46:20 | <EvanR> | yes please |
| 23:47:11 | <duncan> | QualifiedImportPost a.k.a. QUIP |
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| 23:50:35 | <jackdk> | No EvanR, no! |
| 23:51:08 | <EvanR> | a useful snippet of haskell code appears to be a list of imports instead of code xD |
| 23:51:30 | <EvanR> | the code is below the fold |
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| 23:54:45 | <geekosaur> | how does this differ from C/C++? or for that matter python? |
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| 23:56:35 | <exarkun> | in Python you _can_ put imports at the bottom of you want |
| 23:56:50 | <exarkun> | and no one does, thus proving everyone loves being greeted by a wall of imports |
| 23:58:52 | <EvanR> | it doesn't |
All times are in UTC on 2024-01-17.