Logs on 2024-01-24 (liberachat/#haskell)
| 00:01:37 | <haskellbridge> | 05<irregularsphere> imagine nullpointerexceptions in safe haskell |
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| 00:02:01 | <monochrom> | But _|_ is safe Haskell! >:) |
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| 03:31:53 | <haskellbridge> | 05<irregularsphere> not all _|_ are made equal |
| 03:32:07 | <haskellbridge> | 05<irregularsphere> \_|\_* |
| 03:37:28 | <EvanR> | you dare question the central dogma of haskell |
| 03:38:48 | <haskellbridge> | 05<irregularsphere> oh no |
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| 06:08:25 | <tri_> | hi, im having trouble understanding foldMap (* 5) [1,2,3,4 :: Sum Int] |
| 06:08:37 | <tri_> | :t foldMap |
| 06:08:38 | <lambdabot> | (Foldable t, Monoid m) => (a -> m) -> t a -> m |
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| 06:09:44 | <tri_> | fold map first arg is a function returning a monoid, however, (* 5) returns a Num. And unless Num inherits Monoid (which it's not), it should not compile |
| 06:10:02 | <tri_> | however, the above code compiles and run, so can someone help me with that please |
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| 06:14:22 | <[Leary]> | tri_: You're using `instance Num a => Num (Sum a)` and `instance Num a => Monoid (Sum a)`. |
| 06:14:29 | <[Leary]> | :t (* 5) :: Num a => Sum a -> Sum a |
| 06:14:30 | <lambdabot> | Num a => Sum a -> Sum a |
| 06:14:37 | <tri_> | eya thank you |
| 06:14:44 | <tri_> | i was just also figured that out haha |
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| 06:15:03 | <tri_> | it's actualyl not retunring a Num, but it was only partially applied |
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| 06:16:58 | <tri_> | :t (* 5) :: Num a => Sum a -> Sum a |
| 06:16:59 | <lambdabot> | Num a => Sum a -> Sum a |
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| 17:58:39 | <ph88> | is there something in the standard library to reverse the function compare :: a -> a -> Ordering ? like notCompare :: a -> a -> Ordering same as compare but gives LT instead of GT and GT instead of LT |
| 17:59:21 | <ph88> | or maybe a function Ordering -> Ordering to flip it around that way |
| 18:00:13 | <danse-nr3> | there is a monoid to apply i think, let me search for it ... |
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| 18:02:03 | <[Leary]> | ph88: `comparing Down` or just `flip compare`. |
| 18:03:18 | <mauke> | > sortBy (flip compare) [3,1,4,1,5,9,2,6,5] |
| 18:03:19 | <lambdabot> | [9,6,5,5,4,3,2,1,1] |
| 18:03:27 | <danse-nr3> | oh yeah i must have recalled wrong about Down |
| 18:04:18 | <ph88> | i thought that it didn't matter for compare whether you put an argument in first or second position o_O |
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| 18:04:55 | <mauke> | > sortBy (comparing length <> flip compare) (words "looks like the shoe is on the other foot now") |
| 18:04:57 | <lambdabot> | ["on","is","the","the","now","shoe","like","foot","other","looks"] |
| 18:05:32 | <ph88> | what monoid is that ? |
| 18:06:04 | <danse-nr3> | i was thinking of Down, not a monoid |
| 18:06:06 | <EvanR> | > compare True False |
| 18:06:07 | <lambdabot> | GT |
| 18:06:09 | <EvanR> | > compare False True |
| 18:06:11 | <lambdabot> | LT |
| 18:06:20 | <mauke> | > 1 < 2 |
| 18:06:21 | <lambdabot> | True |
| 18:06:26 | <mauke> | > 2 < 1 |
| 18:06:27 | <lambdabot> | False |
| 18:06:40 | <ncf> | ph88: Monoid Ordering |
| 18:06:46 | <ncf> | > LT <> GT |
| 18:06:47 | <lambdabot> | LT |
| 18:06:49 | <ncf> | > EQ <> LT |
| 18:06:51 | <lambdabot> | LT |
| 18:06:57 | <ncf> | it implements lexicographical ordering |
| 18:06:58 | <mauke> | (Monoid m) => e -> m |
| 18:07:23 | <ncf> | well, there's also the Monoid m => Monoid (a -> m) instance involved |
| 18:07:38 | <ph88> | :t flip compare |
| 18:07:39 | <lambdabot> | Ord a => a -> a -> Ordering |
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| 18:07:50 | <ph88> | :t comparing length |
| 18:07:51 | <lambdabot> | Foldable t => t a -> t a -> Ordering |
| 18:08:00 | <ncf> | given f, g :: a -> a -> Ordering, f <> g = \ x y -> f x y <> g x y |
| 18:08:09 | <ph88> | Foldable t => t a -> t a -> Ordering <> Ord a => a -> a -> Ordering |
| 18:08:23 | <ph88> | how can this be monoid over Ordering when there are 2 more arguments to be filled ? |
| 18:08:35 | <ncf> | because of the aforementioned instance for functions |
| 18:08:59 | <ncf> | defined here https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.19.0.0/docs/src/GHC.Base.html#line-398 |
| 18:09:01 | <ph88> | oh ok not familiar with those instances |
| 18:09:04 | <ph88> | thanks for the help |
| 18:09:18 | <ncf> | (and above for Semigroup) |
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| 18:09:30 | <ncf> | here it fires twice, because two arguments |
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| 18:14:41 | <haskellbridge> | 15<Jade> I wish there was a way to have the option for any datatype to have a temporary Show instance (as well as any types it depends on) in order to debug random constructors you find in the wild |
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| 18:15:36 | <ph88> | if i want a function like [a -> a -> Ordering] -> [a] -> [a] where it tries the next comparison function in cases where the previous gives EQ is that something i have to write myself or is there something in the stdlib that combines these ordering functions ? |
| 18:16:26 | <mauke> | I don't understand the [a] -> [a] part |
| 18:16:31 | <haskellbridge> | 15<Jade> you can use the `Semigroup` instance of `Ordering` |
| 18:16:43 | <mauke> | :t mconcat |
| 18:16:43 | <lambdabot> | Monoid a => [a] -> a |
| 18:16:56 | <mauke> | :t mconcat [compare] |
| 18:16:57 | <lambdabot> | Ord a => a -> a -> Ordering |
| 18:17:16 | <hololeap> | what's the best way to throw an unrecoverable error that will give a full stack trace |
| 18:17:32 | <hololeap> | just error from Prelude? |
| 18:17:34 | <ph88> | mauke, it was a typo [a -> a -> Ordering] -> a -> a |
| 18:17:48 | <ph88> | thanks ! |
| 18:17:49 | <ncf> | do you mean [a -> a -> Ordering] -> a -> a -> Ordering? if so, mconcat |
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| 18:19:56 | <EvanR> | what is this full stack trace you speak of |
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| 18:25:48 | <EvanR> | if functions / values have the HasCallStack constraint you can get a partial call stack by error-ing |
| 18:26:00 | <ph88> | hololeap, i believe you have to either compiler or set runtime options to stack trace on exception |
| 18:26:34 | <ph88> | how can i go from function b -> b -> Ordering to Maybe b -> Maybe b -> Ordering ? |
| 18:28:17 | <EvanR> | is that a bicontrafunctor or something |
| 18:28:39 | <hololeap> | long story, but I'm trying to get some HLS tests fixed on gentoo, my comp is too slow so I occassionally get "Timed out while waiting for server" test failures, so I tried to patch out timeouts for lsp-test. somehow it's still happening and I want to see what is calling that exception |
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| 18:30:44 | <ph88> | hololeap, stack build --profile program +RTS -xc try this |
| 18:31:02 | <ncf> | ph88: there's an Ord a => Ord (Maybe a) instance, is that what you're after? |
| 18:31:31 | <ncf> | i guess i don't know if you can invoke that instance directly as a function |
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| 18:32:16 | <ncf> | i doubt it, even |
| 18:32:37 | <hololeap> | Ord (Maybe a) should do what you expect. `Just x > Nothing` for all values of x |
| 18:32:58 | <ph88> | f :: (a -> a -> Ordering) -> (Maybe a -> Maybe a -> Ordering) |
| 18:33:13 | <ncf> | if a happens to have a bottom element you can contramap (fromMaybe bottom) |
| 18:33:18 | <ncf> | but that's kind of cheating :p |
| 18:33:37 | <ncf> | also not quite correct i guess |
| 18:34:07 | <ncf> | (you'd have Nothing == Just bottom, but you want Nothing < Just bottom) |
| 18:34:24 | <ncf> | anyway, i don't think there's a better way than defining it by hand |
| 18:34:50 | <ph88> | maybe this function can help? liftA2 :: (a -> b -> c) -> f a -> f b -> f c |
| 18:35:56 | <hololeap> | ph88: that will return a (Maybe Ordering) |
| 18:36:17 | <ph88> | isn't that guaranteed to be Just ? |
| 18:36:28 | <ncf> | if you fromMaybe EQ (liftA2 compare) you get something close, but not quite what you want |
| 18:36:41 | <ncf> | you will get Nothing == Just a again |
| 18:36:57 | <hololeap> | no, if either Maybe argument is Nothing, the result will be Nothing |
| 18:37:11 | <ph88> | :( |
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| 18:37:55 | <hololeap> | but the Ord a => Ord (Maybe a) instance should do what you want, I would think? |
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| 18:38:11 | <ncf> | they want it at runtime |
| 18:38:49 | <[Leary]> | % :t liftCompare @Maybe |
| 18:38:49 | <yahb2> | liftCompare @Maybe ; :: (a -> b -> Ordering) -> Maybe a -> Maybe b -> Ordering |
| 18:38:53 | <hololeap> | unless you truly want to pass in a function `a -> a -> Ordering` that isn't `compare` |
| 18:39:25 | <ncf> | [Leary]: nice |
| 18:39:35 | <ncf> | didn't know about Ord1 |
| 18:39:35 | <ph88> | [Leary], very nice |
| 18:39:39 | <hololeap> | oh, right Ord1 |
| 18:40:22 | <hololeap> | % Just 4 `compare` Just 5 |
| 18:40:22 | <yahb2> | LT |
| 18:40:27 | <hololeap> | % Just 4 `compare` Nothing |
| 18:40:27 | <yahb2> | GT |
| 18:41:59 | <ph88> | what does it mean when we have a typeclass with a 1 attached? I was it with Generic too sometimes |
| 18:42:44 | <ncf> | usually means it applies to functors instead of types |
| 18:42:50 | <hololeap> | it means that it works with things a kind of (Type -> Type) |
| 18:43:19 | <hololeap> | Ord2 works with things with a kind of (Type -> Type -> Type) |
| 18:43:31 | <hololeap> | such as Either |
| 18:43:36 | <ph88> | aaah i see ! |
| 18:44:10 | <hololeap> | ph88: the -xc profiling option looks like what I want. I'll try it out |
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| 20:14:43 | <ph88> | hololeap, did it work out ? |
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| 20:18:11 | <hololeap> | it certainly gave me a lot of debug info :p |
| 20:18:34 | <hololeap> | although I had to build the test-suite as an executable to get profiling to work |
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| 21:50:36 | <console> | Hello, anyone there? |
| 21:50:43 | <yushyin> | maybe |
| 21:51:03 | <console> | Is this a budy channel? |
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| 21:51:13 | <console> | Sorry, *busy |
| 21:51:38 | <tomsmeding> | sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't :) |
| 21:51:50 | <console> | How long have you used this channle? |
| 21:52:29 | <Rembane> | console: It becomes less busy over time, so do all the talking you need asap |
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| 21:52:53 | <console> | Yes, I have noticed that |
| 21:53:02 | <console> | It seems odd |
| 21:53:19 | <console> | You login and everyone is quiet |
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| 21:53:54 | <console> | Surely defeating the point of the chat in the 1st place |
| 21:54:08 | <console> | Hi Alex |
| 21:56:52 | <darkling> | Tech-oriented IRC channels tend to be very solution-focussed. Random chatter isn't exactly encouraged (nor engaged in). |
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| 21:57:11 | <darkling> | Specific questions with likely answers will usually get a good response. |
| 21:57:42 | <console> | What sort of Tech does this channel generally focus on? |
| 21:57:45 | <darkling> | Fuzzier, "get to know people" talk often goes unanswered. |
| 21:57:59 | <darkling> | That's in the name... #haskell. |
| 21:58:56 | <Rembane> | console: /topic is a good command to get the channel intro |
| 21:59:14 | <console> | Sorry, my bad, I didn't put 2+2 together when I saw the channel name |
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| 22:01:16 | <tomsmeding> | darkling++ for doing this constructively |
| 22:02:11 | <darkling> | I do my best. |
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| 23:01:40 | <haskellbridge> | 15<Jade> I'm wondering if you could build a proper `Enum [a]` instance using an `(Enum a, Bounded a)` constraint. |
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| 23:03:57 | <ncf> | might need Eq for fromEnum |
| 23:04:45 | <haskellbridge> | 15<Jade> right |
| 23:04:49 | <ncf> | i guess Enum implies Eq... why is it not a superclass |
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| 23:05:55 | <geekosaur> | because it can often be done by patterrn matching which doesn't need Eq? |
| 23:07:05 | <ncf> | ? |
| 23:14:22 | <EvanR> | what if i ask is countably denumerable implying decidably equal |
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| 23:17:40 | <ncf> | should be |
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