Logs on 2024-01-31 (liberachat/#haskell)
| 00:03:05 | <jackdk> | EvanR: I use https://int10h.org/oldschool-pc-fonts/fontlist/font?ibm_vga_9x16 as my terminal and emacs font. It gives many people flashbacks to "my computer's misbehaving and I've been reduced to flipping BIOS settings to recover it" (hi Axman6) |
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| 00:05:40 | <EvanR> | yes |
| 00:07:19 | <c_wraith> | those classic fonts were *really* good |
| 00:07:38 | <c_wraith> | like, I'm astounded how bad some modern fonts are in comparison. Ones that people even seem to think are good. |
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| 00:08:27 | <EvanR> | like, the ones that come bundled with linux distros |
| 00:08:33 | <EvanR> | how... why... |
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| 00:12:36 | <duncan> | sun5x11 or nought |
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| 00:13:18 | <duncan> | https://computernewb.com/w/images/cn_wiki/8/83/Sparc1-SunOS.png |
| 00:14:04 | <geekosaur> | https://blog.adafruit.com/2019/03/29/raster-crt-typography-the-glyphs-drawn-by-dec-vt100-and-vt220-terminals-typeography-dec-vintagecomputing-fonts/ |
| 00:14:30 | <geekosaur> | although that's too recent to be the font I used to use back in the day |
| 00:15:41 | <geekosaur> | sorry, it shows the font I used (Glass TTY VT220) |
| 00:16:23 | <EvanR> | that sun font even looks better than some of these fonts you can find in your /usr/share/ |
| 00:16:23 | <duncan> | I am also fond of the SGI fonts |
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| 00:16:47 | <geekosaur> | sadly I had to give it up when I needed UTF8 support |
| 00:17:18 | <duncan> | there was some horrible way of sourcing them, there was the SGI OSS font archive which they provided, but they also had some really neat fonts which only appeared in PDF circulars/press releases |
| 00:17:23 | <duncan> | https://web.archive.org/web/20050428123710/http://www.sgi.com/pdfs/3800.pdf |
| 00:17:53 | <jackdk> | duncan: has antialiasing come into that image at some point? I suspect that the PNG makes it looks fuzzier than it looked IRL. It would be an excellent 1-bit bitmap font |
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| 00:18:59 | <duncan> | jackdk: this image is from an emulator I believe. the actual font shipped with openBSD as the default console font until very recently, it's also in the Debian/Linux kbd source archive (but not shipped with binaries) |
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| 00:19:28 | <jackdk> | I suspected something like that. It is very classy. |
| 00:19:34 | <duncan> | at one point I converted it to TTF so I could make fake sparcstation splash screens for Coreboot with it |
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| 10:56:48 | <Athas> | I have a program that fails at runtime with <loop> with GHC 9.8.1, but not with any previous version. Is there a known bug that has this symptom? |
| 10:57:40 | <danse-nr3> | :/ |
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| 11:36:02 | <L29Ah> | is there a ci thing that i can plug into, say, github so it will produce proper statically-linked (to musl libc for proper portability) binaries for my haskell executable projects? |
| 11:38:04 | <dminuoso_> | L29Ah: nix has a simple thing. |
| 11:38:16 | <dminuoso_> | Or well, haskell.nix does. |
| 11:45:28 | <dminuoso_> | Sigh. Why cant we have type guaranteed safe numerical conversions in base? |
| 11:46:35 | <danse-nr3> | for instance? |
| 11:48:23 | <dminuoso_> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/int-cast |
| 11:48:27 | <dminuoso_> | This thing should be part of base. :/ |
| 11:49:13 | <dminuoso_> | I've just been bitten by a fromIntegral overflow. |
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| 11:55:54 | <danse-nr3> | well i stopped complaining about type safety in base |
| 11:57:13 | <dminuoso_> | I find it very curious how haskell designers and contributors explore so many type safety constructs, but leave the base around as a repackaged minesweeper game. :S |
| 11:57:41 | <danse-nr3> | XD |
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| 12:06:07 | <tomsmeding> | dminuoso_: overflow because of conversion to a smaller type? int-cast still allows conversion from Int to Word, even with intCastEq |
| 12:06:48 | <tomsmeding> | which _is_ an overflow too, though I guess it's invertible so less of a problem |
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| 12:10:08 | <dminuoso_> | tomsmeding: Fair, I should have correctly called it truncation. |
| 12:10:17 | <tomsmeding> | right |
| 12:10:37 | <dminuoso_> | And the overflow has a defined behavior, unlike some of the overflow/underflow in C. |
| 12:10:56 | <tomsmeding> | praise be |
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| 12:31:16 | <theInvertedFunct> | > take 5 [1..] |
| 12:31:17 | <lambdabot> | [1,2,3,4,5] |
| 12:31:49 | <theInvertedFunct> | > :type 1 |
| 12:31:51 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:1: error: parse error on input ‘:’ |
| 12:33:02 | <theInvertedFunct> | > 1 : 2 : 3 : [] |
| 12:33:03 | <lambdabot> | [1,2,3] |
| 12:33:56 | <theInvertedFunct> | :t 1 |
| 12:33:57 | <lambdabot> | Num p => p |
| 12:35:06 | <theInvertedFunct> | @djinn (a, b) -> (b, a) |
| 12:35:06 | <lambdabot> | f (a, b) = (b, a) |
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| 12:47:21 | <tomsmeding> | theInvertedFunct: you can also private-chat with lambdabot :) |
| 12:48:12 | <danse-nr3> | although at least this way they animate the channel a bit :P |
| 12:48:31 | <danse-nr3> | not sure what are they up to though |
| 12:49:38 | <theInvertedFunct> | trying to figure out how IRC works, that's all |
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| 15:52:05 | <tinjamin> | gm haskellers |
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| 16:08:34 | <danse-nr3> | hey tinjamin |
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| 17:22:14 | <haskellbridge> | 15<Jade> When using `BangPatterns`, how is `let x = f y in T x` translated? |
| 17:22:37 | <haskellbridge> | 15<Jade> ah there should be an exclamation mark in the let binding, apologies |
| 17:25:32 | <L29Ah> | > Just undefined |
| 17:25:34 | <lambdabot> | Just *Exception: Prelude.undefined |
| 17:25:52 | <L29Ah> | > let !x = undefined in Just x |
| 17:25:54 | <lambdabot> | *Exception: Prelude.undefined |
| 17:26:42 | <danse-nr3> | > Just 1 <|> Just undefined |
| 17:26:43 | <lambdabot> | Just 1 |
| 17:26:57 | <danse-nr3> | > let !x = undefined in Just 1 <|> Just undefined |
| 17:26:59 | <lambdabot> | *Exception: Prelude.undefined |
| 17:27:19 | <danse-nr3> | oops |
| 17:27:20 | <L29Ah> | cool |
| 17:27:20 | <danse-nr3> | > let !x = undefined in Just 1 <|> Just x |
| 17:27:22 | <lambdabot> | *Exception: Prelude.undefined |
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| 18:09:44 | <haskellbridge> | 15<Jade> apologies, I know what it does; I was moreso wondering how it's translated in terms of (probably seq) |
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| 18:12:47 | <[Leary]> | Jade: `let !v = EXPR in BODY` = `let v = EXPR in v `seq` BODY`. See <https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/users_guide/exts/strict.html#dynamic-semantics-of-bang-patterns> for detail (and other cases). |
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| 18:49:06 | <haskellbridge> | 15<Jade> thanks! |
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| 23:24:39 | <haskellbridge> | 10<maralorn> Are any of the Ord instances of Int, Text, ShortText, ByteString, ShortByteString or Word64 locale dependent? |
| 23:25:17 | <haskellbridge> | 10<maralorn> I am curious about those generall types. Concretely I want to know for Version and PackageName from Cabal-syntax. |
| 23:25:55 | <L29Ah> | no, why would it be? |
| 23:26:13 | <L29Ah> | Ord functions are pure after all |
| 23:28:19 | <haskellbridge> | 10<maralorn> Because I vaguely remember that different locales resulted in different orderings for those types. |
| 23:28:59 | <haskellbridge> | 10<maralorn> And because in general ordering of strings is locale dependent. |
| 23:29:26 | <haskellbridge> | 10<maralorn> Of course not for Int, that would be crazy. |
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| 23:30:50 | <monochrom> | Their Ord instances are not locale-dependent. |
| 23:31:38 | <yushyin> | https://ircbrowse.tomsmeding.com/day/lchaskell/2024/01/08?id=1184811#trid1184811 |
| 23:35:26 | <geekosaur> | I don't think that would even be meaningful: how would you, for example, compare PackageName-s for packages in different locales? |
| 23:38:30 | <haskellbridge> | 10<maralorn> Oh, wow. yushyin. I completely forgot that I asked this question before. I am getting to old. |
| 23:39:04 | <haskellbridge> | 10<maralorn> geekosaur: I have no clue. I will report back when I gathered more evidence that the ordering is unstable. |
| 23:39:19 | <haskellbridge> | 10<maralorn> Thanks, yall. |
| 23:39:41 | <yushyin> | happens! ;) |
| 23:39:44 | <geekosaur> | the ordering is entirely stable, it's just lexical instead of locale-dependent |
| 23:40:20 | <geekosaur> | and must be because the definition of "locale" is what's unstable there |
| 23:48:27 | <geekosaur> | (and because, as mentioned, Ord is pure and therefore cannot be locale-dependent; locale information lives in IO) |
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| 23:55:32 | <sclv> | in particular Text etc are ordered in unicode byte order. their contents are _unicode_ not locale dependent |
| 23:56:00 | <sclv> | it may be that you _read_ in Text from files, and the manner in which reading from those files is interpreted as text is locale dependent, but thats a function of the IO used in reading those files. |
All times are in UTC on 2024-01-31.