Home liberachat/#haskell: Logs Calendar

Logs on 2024-02-05 (liberachat/#haskell)

00:05:33 × peterbecich quits (~Thunderbi@047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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00:51:21 <ski> given `Monad M', a function `f :: M T -> M U' is referentially transparent iff there exists a `g :: T -> M U' such that `f = (g =<<)'. in that case, `f . return = (g =<<) . return = g' (latter step being a monad law), so we can equivalently describe the condition as `f = (f . return =<<)'
00:57:14 <ski> ncf : why call that operation `unKleisli', though ?
00:57:39 <ski> irregularsphere : doesn't seem like kleisli composition, to me
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02:05:08 <haskellbridge> 05<i​rregularsphere> yea i meant morphism
02:05:18 <haskellbridge> 05<i​rregularsphere> ...or at least that's the `a -> m b` part
02:06:40 <haskellbridge> 05<i​rregularsphere> ah, thanks for mentioning =<<
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09:12:39 <ncf> ski: what condition are you describing?
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09:13:47 <ncf> also, why is that called referential transparency? i don't see the connection
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09:38:30 <lyxia> "replacing a subexpression with another that denotes the same value does not change meaning". If "u :: M T" is an expression/computation, and if "x :: T" is its value, you want something like (f u) = (f (pure x)).
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10:01:56 <int-e> yellowbean: why so many rejoins
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10:19:44 <haskellbridge> 05<i​rregularsphere> ski: you seem to be hinting that there are functions that aren't referentially transparent
10:20:00 <haskellbridge> 05<i​rregularsphere> hmm, maybe `reverse :: [a] -> [a]` is one?
10:21:13 <haskellbridge> 05<i​rregularsphere> ghci> reverse [1,2]
10:21:13 <haskellbridge> 05<i​rregularsphere> [2,1]
10:21:14 <haskellbridge> 05<i​rregularsphere> ghci> [1,2] >>= reverse . return
10:21:15 <haskellbridge> 05<i​rregularsphere> [1,2]
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10:21:51 <haskellbridge> 05<i​rregularsphere> ncf: concludes it, not all functions `m a -> m b` have a proper `a -> m b`
10:22:03 <haskellbridge> 05<i​rregularsphere> thanks ski!
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10:26:18 <ncf> i'm pretty sure that's only the case for idempotent monads
10:26:40 <haskellbridge> 05<i​rregularsphere> ...though `\f -> >>= f . return` seems to turn every function into referentially transparent functions, since `>>= (>>= f . return) . return` is `>>= f . return` (monad law)
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10:29:12 <haskellbridge> 05<i​rregularsphere> ncf: wdym? are you saying that in an indempotent monad, every function is referentially transparent?
10:29:24 <haskellbridge> 05<i​rregularsphere> every function `m a -> m b`*
10:30:03 <ncf> specifically i'm thinking of "uniquely eliminating modalities", which is quite a strong condition
10:30:19 <haskellbridge> 05<i​rregularsphere> ok I'm lost, bailing out
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11:46:44 <haskellbridge> 15<J​ade> how can I signal EOF in ghci?
11:46:44 <haskellbridge> 15<J​ade> When using `getContents`, pressing `CTRL+D` seems to 'input' EOT but it does not terminate
11:48:08 <danse-nr3> it also doubles each char, i guess it is not designed to be used that way
11:48:55 <haskellbridge> 15<J​ade> danse-nr3: that seems sort of right because it's lazily writing to stdout as that's default ghci behavior for an IO-action
11:49:02 <haskellbridge> 15<J​ade> but yeah it's a bit of a mess
11:52:35 <[exa]> also kinda hard to actually signal EOF twice, you only the close the file once right.
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11:57:43 <haskellbridge> 15<J​ade> hm, I'm not sure how to show examples of these in the haddocks properly
11:58:12 <int-e> In essence, lazy IO on stdin doesn't work in ghci.
11:59:13 <int-e> % x <- getContents
11:59:13 <yahb2> <no output>
11:59:37 <int-e> % 1
11:59:37 <yahb2> Oops, something went wrong
11:59:43 <int-e> % 1
11:59:43 <yahb2> 1
12:00:22 <int-e> That... is fun. (ghci will still print the prompt, and then say "<stdin>: hGetChar: illegal operation (handle is semi-closed)"; I guess yahb2 isn't prepared for that.
12:01:09 <int-e> Instead it looks like it recognizes the prompt, waits for the next command, but of course that'll fail miserably because the ghci session is already gone.)
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12:17:25 <haskellbridge> 15<J​ade> ```
12:17:26 <haskellbridge> 15<J​ade> echo -e "interact (\str -> str ++ str)\nhi" | ghci
12:17:27 <haskellbridge> 15<J​ade> ...
12:17:29 <haskellbridge> 15<J​ade> ghci> hi
12:17:30 <haskellbridge> 15<J​ade> hi
12:17:31 <haskellbridge> 15<J​ade> ghci> Leaving GHCi.
12:17:33 <haskellbridge> 15<J​ade> ```
12:21:19 <int-e> echo hi | ghci -e 'interact (\xs -> xs ++ xs)'
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13:14:13 <haskellbridge> 05<i​rregularsphere> ...do reactions even work over the bridge?
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13:18:21 <int-e> what's a reaction (I guess the answer is no)
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13:20:22 <haskellbridge> 05<i​rregularsphere> matrix thing
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13:31:54 <danse-nr3> would that be like an emoji targeting a specific message? Just send the emoji on its line when you care about reaching IRC
13:46:04 <haskellbridge> 05<i​rregularsphere> huh
13:47:18 <Clint> what are these os-string failures i'm getting when trying to build hashable/unix with ghc 9.[68]?
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14:29:30 <haskellbridge> 15<J​ade> how can I test the `bufferMode` of a handle? Inside my terminal using `BlockBuffering` or `NoBuffering` on `stdin` does not seem to have any effect (I assume my shell is overriding stuff?)
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14:46:24 <tomsmeding> % System.Process.system "echo hi | ghci -e 'interact (\\xs -> xs ++ xs)'"
14:46:24 <yahb2> hi ; hi ; ExitSuccess
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18:31:54 <haskellbridge> 15<J​ade> what are some examples for `fixIO`? I can't seem to find any use-case for ir
18:31:55 <haskellbridge> 15<J​ade> s/ir/it
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18:38:34 <ski> linking up `IORef's (or better, `IVar's) in a cycle without back-patching. or (lazily) feeding the result of a future I/O operation as an input to a present one, say
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18:39:31 <ski> hmm .. now that i think of it, i guess you could e.g. build a list, TCMC-style, with it, while doing some I/O
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18:51:18 <ncf> https://wiki.haskell.org/MonadFix#Examples
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19:19:22 <mreh> Jade: it's used in reflex
19:20:36 <tomsmeding> Do newtypes survive in Core? Is there any situation where introducing a newtype around something can decrease performance?
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19:22:39 <geekosaur> newtypes are gone by Core. there are however situations where they are not optimized away, such as when you map a coercion over the items in a list (which becomes `map id …` in Core)
19:23:12 <tomsmeding> right
19:23:23 <mreh> I just installed a shared lib. The CPP can find the header files, but the linked can't. It's there when I run `ldconfig -p`
19:23:25 <geekosaur> there are some ways around this, such as `coerce` over the list instead of the items or use of `.#`
19:23:34 <tomsmeding> I'm writing some TH code that can either run code in a monad, or manually write out the monad operations without a newtype around it
19:23:45 <tomsmeding> my question is whether there is any benefit to the latter, and it seems the answer is no
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19:23:53 <tomsmeding> because the operations would be the same anyway -- no 'map coerce'
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19:25:44 <mreh> I think this is a gcc issue actually..
19:26:02 <tomsmeding> "the linked" -> "the linker"? as in `ld`?
19:26:08 <mreh> tomsmeding: yeah
19:26:15 <mreh> ld.gold on my system
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19:27:27 <mreh> trying to compile some C bindings to assimp
19:28:04 <tomsmeding> mreh: do you have extra-lib-dirs in cabal?
19:28:13 <tomsmeding> if it's not in something like /usr/lib
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19:29:33 <mreh> tomsmeding: pkgconfig-depends: assimp
19:30:06 <mreh> looks like GHC is passing -lassimp to gcc
19:30:34 <mreh> the binding is humourously called "buttdemon" if you want to look it up on github
19:30:46 <tomsmeding> mreh: what does 'pkg-config --libs assimp' print in your terminal
19:31:26 <mreh> tomsmeding: -L/usr/local/lib -lassimp
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19:32:46 <tomsmeding> does that -L/usr/local/lib show up in 'cabal build --verbose'?
19:33:12 <tomsmeding> and is there indeed a /usr/local/lib/libassimp.so
19:33:13 <[exa]> I've got an app that would be dealing with large amounts of text that can be parsed and generated by small parts (imagine a stream of line entries). I want the library to be somewhat flexible for people to work with, especially for working with huge amounts of the entries. Is using Data.Text.Lazy a good idea for this? My reasoning is that anyone can convert that to strict text (or any other
19:33:15 <[exa]> format) anytime, and for folks with unloadably large files this ain't stay in the way.
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19:34:02 <mreh> tomsmeding: I can paste the failing gcc call, there's no -L/usr/local/lib but there is a libassimp.so
19:34:06 <[exa]> (Similar question for parsing -- is it a good idea to simply provide a megaparsec interface into which one may plug in anything where `Token stream ~ Char`?)
19:34:08 <mreh> in it
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19:34:48 <mreh> @paste
19:34:49 <lambdabot> A pastebin: https://paste.debian.net/
19:36:07 <mreh> tomsmeding: https://paste.debian.net/plain/1306403
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19:40:09 <mreh> It shows up when I run cabal build --verbose, but I'm actually compiling the binding through stack as a dependency of my project...
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19:42:43 <tomsmeding> sad
19:43:56 <mreh> it doesn't even build when I run cabal build on dependency code alone either
19:44:01 <mreh> but for other reasons
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20:04:19 <haskellbridge> 14<m​auke> Is hsc involved?
20:05:40 <mreh> who said that?!
20:05:44 <mreh> yes it is
20:06:29 <geekosaur> this channel is bridged to #haskell-irc:matrix.org, mauke is on that side
20:06:30 <mreh> I can't see your nick, haskellbridge isn't forwarding it on
20:06:42 <geekosaur> it's colored darkgrey
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20:06:55 <mreh> so is my terminal background :\
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20:07:20 <tomsmeding> https://tomsmeding.com/ss/get/tomsmeding/P7us92
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20:07:39 <mreh> mauke: yes
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21:13:14 <cheater> geekosaur: please turn off the coloring. please. most of the time it becomes invisible
21:14:00 <tomsmeding> most of the time?
21:14:09 <cheater> https://imgur.com/a/9n2wlCL
21:14:24 <tomsmeding> it's always visible for me, but then I have a predictably nearly (but not quite) black background
21:14:27 <cheater> well, sometimes it seems to be white and not grey, in which case it isn't quite invisible, just very difficult to see
21:14:36 <tomsmeding> right
21:14:59 <tomsmeding> okay yeah with not-black and not-white it doesn't really work lol
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21:15:39 <cheater> geekosaur: can you turn off the coloring please... it really doesn't work
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21:15:45 <cheater> the white one is hard to read as well
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21:21:26 <haskellbridge> 15<J​ade> (i doubt this will work on the irc side)
21:21:37 <tomsmeding> (what? :p)
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21:26:06 <cheater> ?
21:26:53 <haskellbridge> <J​ade> rainbow text
21:27:30 <tomsmeding> came in as plain text here
21:28:31 <tomsmeding> Jade: I suspect it simply takes the "body" (as opposed to the "formatted_body") from the matrix message, which means that stuff like colours get lost and normal formatting, depending on the sending client, is formatted as markdown
21:28:48 <haskellbridge> <J​ade> yeah that's what's happening
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21:46:56 <[exa]> cheater: what's that client?
21:49:10 <EvanR> a practical "fix" might be to disable almost white and almost black
21:49:39 <EvanR> but also I remember yellow on white being unreadable too
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22:11:28 <haskellbridge> <i​rregularsphere> Jade: did you expect irc to use html lol
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23:16:03 × lottaquestions quits (~nick@2607:fa49:503d:b200:5126:8366:8f76:8d51) (Remote host closed the connection)
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23:21:17 × zmt00 quits (~zmt00@user/zmt00) (Quit: Leaving)
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23:24:31 × acidjnk_new quits (~acidjnk@p200300d6e737e7151d48d69d15fdaa8c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
23:26:13 × mechap quits (~mechap@user/mechap) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
23:27:49 → mechap joins (~mechap@user/mechap)
23:27:49 × mechap quits (~mechap@user/mechap) (Client Quit)
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23:40:49 × a51 quits (a51@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/a51) (Quit: WeeChat 4.2.1)
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23:55:59 × santiagopim quits (~user@90.167.66.131) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
23:56:32 × euleritian quits (~euleritia@dynamic-176-005-154-182.176.5.pool.telefonica.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
23:56:48 → euleritian joins (~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)

All times are in UTC on 2024-02-05.