Logs on 2024-02-09 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 02:25:01 | <sam113101> | does haskell support generic programming? |
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| 02:26:34 | <probie> | sam113101: How do you define "generic programming"? |
| 02:27:50 | <sam113101> | probie: I have no idea, but I guess writing functions that can take arguments of multiple types, like in C++ templates, instead of a fixed type |
| 02:28:36 | <sam113101> | but mostly I was reading the wikipedia article on haskell, and there was mention of Generic Haskell, and I was like, what? haskell doesn't support generic programming? what kind of features does it add to haskell? |
| 02:28:53 | <jackdk> | the problem that C++ templates usually solve (writing a data structure once, and using it with many different types) is solved by parametric and/or ad-hoc polymorphism |
| 02:30:19 | <jackdk> | so we can write a function like `map :: (a -> b) -> [a] -> [b]`, which you might be used to seeing as something like `template <typename A, typename B> list<B> map(list<A>, Function<A,B>)` (I don't really know C++, so don't take this literally) |
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| 02:32:18 | <She> | Handily, "Generic Haskell" on that page is a link to the following, which is pretty explicit about what features are added: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generic_programming#Generic_Haskell |
| 02:32:36 | <probie> | sam113101: That "Generic Haskell" stuff is actually in (GHC) Haskell these days, but it's also nothing like C++ templates. That wikipedia page is not really much of a coherent article. |
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| 02:34:48 | <sam113101> | I was considering learning haskell because it looks completely alien to me, and thought it would teach me different ways to solve problems, ways that are completely different from C-like languages |
| 02:34:58 | <geekosaur> | that it will |
| 02:39:35 | <jackdk> | For the better, I feel |
| 02:40:42 | <probie> | What Haskell can do that most language with generics can't, is higher kinded stuff. For example `data Foo t = Foo { bar :: t Int, baz :: t Char }`, which is roughly (if C++ would allow it) `template <typename T> struct Foo { bar T<int>; baz T<char>; };` |
| 02:42:00 | She | glances at C++'s template templates, shudders. |
| 02:43:06 | <probie> | There's probably a way to actually mangle C++ into doing that, but in a language like Java, there isn't |
| 02:44:30 | <sam113101> | honestly I'm surprised C++ doesn't allow that, what if you want your function to be generic over which container type it uses for example, like linked list or vector |
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| 02:51:23 | <She> | (You can do this in C++. See template templates.) |
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| 03:51:20 | <EvanR> | what's an algorithm that works generically regardless of if you're operating on a linked list or a vector |
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| 03:55:43 | <mauke> | any basic fold |
| 03:55:54 | <davean> | EvanR: yah. Uh most? |
| 03:56:03 | <davean> | fmap, traverse, fold, etc |
| 03:56:34 | <EvanR> | I'm thinking of a generic algorithm as one which works as written on different data structures |
| 03:56:37 | <davean> | Applicative? monad ones ... |
| 03:56:44 | <davean> | yes, so? |
| 03:56:51 | <EvanR> | but a linked list and a vector have wildly different APIs |
| 03:56:55 | <davean> | No they don't? |
| 03:56:57 | <mauke> | not in C++ |
| 03:57:01 | <davean> | Not in Haskell |
| 03:57:04 | <EvanR> | are we talking about C++ |
| 03:57:09 | <EvanR> | dammit |
| 03:57:23 | <davean> | Haskell Vectors and Lists are basicly identical? |
| 03:57:37 | <EvanR> | deep thonk |
| 03:58:40 | <EvanR> | the foldl operation is supposed by list and vector, that's not exactly an algorithm, but a publically exposed utility |
| 03:58:44 | <EvanR> | supported* |
| 03:59:01 | <EvanR> | not operating directly on the data structure |
| 04:02:45 | <mauke> | define "directly" |
| 04:04:38 | <EvanR> | munging the pointers to the next node, or read writing the pointers stored in the vector |
| 04:05:21 | <mauke> | wait, are we still in Haskell? |
| 04:05:31 | <EvanR> | I don't know |
| 04:05:39 | <EvanR> | flips table |
| 04:06:12 | <mauke> | anyway, C++ iterators are specifically designed to mimic C pointers |
| 04:06:58 | <mauke> | so as long as you can define an iterator for your container type, all the C++ "algorithms" will work with it |
| 04:07:21 | <EvanR> | that's cool |
| 04:08:49 | <mauke> | the Haskell equivalent (if you squint hard) is class operations like fold/traverse |
| 04:09:17 | <mauke> | (but we don't have the crazier stuff like "random access iterators") |
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| 08:33:14 | <tomsmeding> | Axman6: re are there cpu instructions which can do that: upon checking, apparently I misremembered, there aren't (at least on x86). But then at least I'd like to compare-and-swap (CAS) in my vectors! |
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| 09:26:38 | <petrichor> | has anyone made any recent progress on a wayland equivalent of xmonad? |
| 09:26:58 | <petrichor> | waymonad hasn't had a commit in 5 years and is very wip https://github.com/waymonad/waymonad |
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| 09:29:33 | <petrichor> | oh wait, i see there is some recent progress on xmonad itself: https://discourse.haskell.org/t/xmonad-for-wayland-call-for-help/7812/48 |
| 09:30:00 | <petrichor> | and here https://discourse.haskell.org/t/haskell-wlroots-bindings/8426 |
| 09:30:10 | <petrichor> | anyway, morning folks o/ |
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| 09:40:32 | <danse-nr3> | moin petrichor |
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| 10:53:23 | <Axman6> | probie: I expect to see your edits to the wikipedia page post-haste! |
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| 14:01:19 | <Athas> | Followup on my <<loop>> woes from yesterday; it is certainly related to type class dictionaries: https://github.com/diku-dk/futhark/issues/2105 |
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| 17:49:01 | <erisco> | I want to visualize tree data structures. I found the diagrams package but it looks like I have to come up with the code to draw a tree. Know of something more direct? |
| 17:49:29 | <erisco> | There is ghc-vis but I am not interested in visualizing the evaluations |
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| 18:11:21 | <tomsmeding> | Athas: troubling that you haven't been able to debug it yet! |
| 18:11:36 | <tomsmeding> | erisco: not haskell, but are you aware of graphviz? |
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| 18:12:51 | <tomsmeding> | I see a bindings package exists, but you may be happy enough with just generating a dot file and running that through the 'dot' command-line tool |
| 18:12:55 | <erisco> | tomsmeding, nope. Looking now |
| 18:13:44 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> there's https://hackage.haskell.org/package/containers-0.7/docs/Data-Tree.html#g:4 |
| 18:14:33 | <tomsmeding> | erisco: https://tomsmeding.com/ss/get/tomsmeding/knA7Ot |
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| 18:19:12 | <erisco> | tomsmeding, that looks good, thanks |
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| 19:05:53 | <Athas> | tomsmeding: truthfully, I have not spent much time on it. |
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| 19:25:13 | <tomsmeding> | erisco: graphviz dot is useful in so many situations |
| 19:25:52 | <tomsmeding> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/cabal-plan has a 'dot' command (i.e. 'cabal-plan dot') that prints out a dot graph of your package's dependency tree |
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| 19:26:27 | <tomsmeding> | 'cabal-plan dot | dot -Tpng -o graph.png' and voila, a graph |
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| 19:26:48 | <tomsmeding> | not that it will be very readable if it gets big |
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| 22:39:41 | <dolio> | If I spawn a process, and want to feed it some data, but then pass through as much of my own stdin as it wants, is there some easy way to do that? I was hoping that would be hDuplicateTo, but it doesn't seem like that's the right thing. |
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| 22:41:28 | <dolio> | (The mistmatch there being that the stdin for the process that I have is actually a handle that I output to.) |
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| 22:42:41 | <int-e> | hDuplicateTo is dup2(), what you want sounds more like Linux's splice() |
| 22:43:23 | <haskellbridge> | <Jade> what are units and 'multi-mode' in ghci? |
| 22:43:41 | <haskellbridge> | <Jade> Either I can't find it or (atleast the latter) is poorly documented |
| 22:44:00 | <geekosaur> | it's barely there in ghci at present; it's a ghc thing |
| 22:45:12 | <haskellbridge> | <Jade> yeah, I'm writing ghci code and there's this really clumsy handling of 'multi-mode' which apparently relates to multiple units being loaded |
| 22:45:23 | <geekosaur> | a unit is, roughly speaking, a compilation unit/target |
| 22:45:44 | <geekosaur> | multiple home units is a newish ghc feature for which ghci has only preliminary support |
| 22:47:05 | <dolio> | Yeah, that does sound like what I want. Seems like there's something in network, but not necessarily just for handles. |
| 22:47:33 | <geekosaur> | https://well-typed.com/blog/2022/01/multiple-home-units/ might be of some help |
| 22:48:05 | <geekosaur> | dolio, I'm reading that and thinking "expect" |
| 22:48:25 | <geekosaur> | sadly I don't know if there's an expect-like library for haskell |
| 22:48:44 | <geekosaur> | (in expect it's called "interact") |
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| 23:18:28 | <energizer> | is it possible to write a function like this python one that randomly returns either an int or float? `def f(): return 1 if (random() < .5) else 1.0` |
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| 23:19:48 | <haskellbridge> | <Jade> `data IntOrFloat = AnInt Int | AFloat Float` |
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| 23:45:10 | <dmj`> | @def { intFloat = print =<< do generate arbitrary :: IO (Either Int Float) } |
| 23:45:12 | <lambdabot> | Defined. |
| 23:45:16 | <dmj`> | > intFloat |
| 23:45:17 | <lambdabot> | <IO ()> |
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All times are in UTC on 2024-02-09.