Logs on 2024-02-18 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 03:51:32 | <slack1256> | I never got SYB. From my PoV GHC.Generics seemed like a replacement. Does it make sense to learn it now? |
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| 05:36:16 | <davean> | dmj`: But that doesn;'t help the example where encodings are migrated, etc |
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| 20:01:26 | <Guest33> | How do you interpret a type signature like "something :: MonadParsec e s m => m a"? I understand that a type signature like "something :: Monad m => m a" is placing a constraint on the type variable m stating that it must be a monad, but I'm not sure how to approach the other example. |
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| 20:08:47 | <mauke> | Guest33: looks like a multi-parameter type class |
| 20:08:52 | <c_wraith> | Guest33: it's still placing a restriction on m, but the class actually depends on 3 variables, not just one |
| 20:09:08 | <c_wraith> | Guest33: the fact that the other two variables aren't used is sometimes awkward |
| 20:09:15 | <mauke> | it's placing a constraint on the (e, s, m) triple |
| 20:10:39 | <c_wraith> | Guest33: however, the definition of MonadParsec includes `| m -> e s' in it, which means that any choice of m must uniquely determine both e and s |
| 20:11:07 | <c_wraith> | Guest33: so being able to infer m is sufficient to determine what triple is in use |
| 20:11:49 | <c_wraith> | Multiparameter type classes are very often combined with functional dependencies (the | syntax in the class definition) |
| 20:14:22 | <c_wraith> | Guest33: in practical terms, though... ParsecT is the most common instance of MonadParsec. You might as well read that type as "something :: ParsecT e s m a". Other instances exist, but you're probably not using them. |
| 20:18:10 | <Guest33> | Thanks for your help. Going off of that, when you guys say that a constraint is placed on the (e,s,m) triple, does that mean that all three type variables are supposed to be instances of MonadParsec? That would sort of make sense to me, but then it's a little confusing that ParsecT also uses all three variables as type arguments |
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| 20:19:17 | <c_wraith> | No, it means that MonadParsec constraints three type variables at once |
| 20:19:44 | <c_wraith> | It's just awkward in that two of them aren't seen elsewhere in the type |
| 20:20:22 | <Guest33> | I guess I just don't really get what the implication of that constraint is. Up until this point I've only really seen/understood constraints to mean "this type variable has to be an instance of this type class" |
| 20:20:54 | <mauke> | and now it's "these three type variables together have to be an instance of this type class" |
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| 20:21:58 | <Guest33> | Meaning you should be able to pass the three type variables to some type constructor and get back an instance of the type class? |
| 20:22:20 | <c_wraith> | Not necessarily. Just that there needs to be an instance defined for those three types |
| 20:23:21 | <c_wraith> | that is, a definition like `instance MonadParsec e s (ParsecT e s m) where ...' |
| 20:23:31 | <c_wraith> | You'll notice the definition takes 3 types |
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| 20:26:09 | <mauke> | Guest33: what do you mean, "get back an instance"? |
| 20:27:04 | <energizer> | is there a conventional phrasing either "the value matches the pattern" or "the pattern matches the value"? |
| 20:30:22 | <Guest33> | mauke I meant - get back a type that is an instance of that type class |
| 20:31:14 | × | bitdex quits (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 20:31:21 | <EvanR> | the value and the pattern can be unified xD |
| 20:31:29 | <mauke> | ??? |
| 20:31:40 | <mauke> | there is no "type that is an instance" |
| 20:31:47 | <mauke> | it is three types |
| 20:31:49 | <c_wraith> | Guest33: if it would help to have a tiny example to play with in ghci, https://paste.tomsmeding.com/fZ6vCRXe |
| 20:33:51 | <Guest33> | Thanks, I'll give it a try. I think your explanation more or less made sense to me though. If anything, I'm moreso confused on the practical utility of doing that instead of directly stating that parsers have to be instances of the MonadParsec type class, but I'm guessing the explanation for that is very specific to how megaparsec works |
| 20:34:58 | <c_wraith> | Guest33: it's mostly so that you can refer to the error type or the state type in the members of MonadParsec |
| 20:34:59 | <mauke> | I don't remember how parsec works, but there's probably at least a parser monad and an input (source) type |
| 20:35:05 | <mauke> | oh, state type |
| 20:36:07 | <c_wraith> | Guest33: so you have `parseError :: ParseError s e -> m a' in the class. You'll notice that refers to both s and e. If they weren't parameters of the type class, there wouldn't be a way to talk about them. (well, unless you use a different set of extensions that enable similar power) |
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| 20:42:14 | <tomsmeding> | yeah I wonder if the TypeFamilies way of expressing that type class would have been clearer to Guest33 |
| 20:42:36 | <tomsmeding> | still, there are examples where you really need a multi-param type class, right? |
| 20:43:06 | <c_wraith> | oh, the s is "stream type". what mauke was saying, not what I was. It doesn't change anything about how the language constructs word, but it is what megaparsec is doing with that type |
| 20:43:30 | <tomsmeding> | (they left) |
| 20:43:40 | <c_wraith> | tomsmeding: MPTCs+Fundeps usually give better type inference, which is why they tend to end up being the primary choice |
| 20:44:04 | <tomsmeding> | yeah |
| 20:44:31 | <EvanR> | even if they left it can be helpful if the topic was further discussed if anyone was lurking and also because they might come back and see logs |
| 20:44:31 | <tomsmeding> | as in, I don't know why, but I have the vague feeling, acquired from past pain, that MPTCs can give less pain |
| 20:44:40 | <tomsmeding> | true |
| 20:45:03 | <c_wraith> | yeah. I hadn't noticed they left, but I wanted to get that correction out there anyway. Just in case. |
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| 21:48:15 | <monochrom> | There was one time I genuiely intend a 2-param type class and no fundep because it is really a many-to-many relation. (Don't worry, the rest of the type has enough Proxy params for the user to determinze it. :) ) |
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| 22:01:47 | <sam113101> | I'm new to haskell |
| 22:01:54 | <sam113101> | you guys seem to talk about types a lot |
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| 22:04:08 | <haskellbridge> | <Jade> indeed |
| 22:04:16 | <haskellbridge> | <Jade> types are a large part of haskell |
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| 22:10:06 | <probie> | Haskell attracts a certain type of person |
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| 23:27:20 | <Guest57> | Is there any documentation/guide on when it is most appropriate to use the inline/inlinable pragmas? |
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