Home liberachat/#haskell: Logs Calendar

Logs on 2024-02-26 (liberachat/#haskell)

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00:42:19 <jackdk> Heffalump: how does the indirect dependency misbehave? If you aren't depending on it already, you could raise a bug against the direct dependency and they can exclude the broken versions of the indirect dependency
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09:46:50 <[exa]> with attoparsec, are there any considerations on whether it's better to feed it ByteStrings and parse out Text (via decoding after the bytestrings are parsed), or feed it Text directly (and avoid decoding) ? My main concern is streaming btw, the "Text to Text" way sounds less painful but I'm not really sure how nice the Text streaming will be when faced with the usual OS routines down below.
09:47:03 <[exa]> (or maybe are there good ways to stream Text over?)
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14:20:29 <dmj`> If Haskell98 doesn't allow RankNTypes, how were typeclasses implemented back in the day (dictionary passing wouldn't have been viable, since it requires a least rank 2 types). Just static monomorphization?
14:22:12 <EvanR> dictionary passing requires rank 2 types?
14:23:02 <EvanR> didn't think core had rank 2 types
14:28:54 <dmj`> data Monad m = Monad { return :: a -> m a, ... } needs the forall a.
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14:33:56 <opqdonut> good question, I'd never thought of that
14:34:19 <opqdonut> all the dictionary passing examples don't have polymorphism like that, they're something boring like Eq or Show
14:35:25 <ncf> presumably there's no obstruction to having rank-n types in your core language, since there's no type inference needed there?
14:37:33 <lortabac> Core is based on System-F, it has first-class polymorphism
14:39:04 <ncf> *nod*
14:39:22 <lortabac> besides rank-n types, it also allows the parameter of a polymorphic signature to be itself polymorphic
14:40:06 <lortabac> which is something that I don't think Haskell supports fully (even with ImpredicativeTypes)
14:41:09 <dmj`> but haskell98 didn't have core w/ system-f (or did it?), I'd imagine it was just HM + class constraints (lambda bound args are forced to be monomorphic making TC decidable)
14:41:31 <lortabac> Core has always been based on System-F as far as I know
14:42:02 <lortabac> otherwise implementing type-classes such as Monad would have been impossible I guess
14:42:04 <ncf> haskell98 never had Core because Core is an implementation detail of GHC?
14:42:48 <ncf> i don't think the standard says anything about dictionary passing
14:43:49 <lortabac> ncf: good point
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14:46:24 <lortabac> ncf: yes, Core doesn't have inference, so it can support a more powerful type system
14:46:59 <dmj`> I guess its possible core was always system f yet the surface syntax (h98) disallowed rank n types
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14:53:10 <dmj`> wonder if it also has to do with the fact ghc is an incremental compiler and static monomorphization (the alternative to dictionary passing) wouldn't be possible
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14:58:14 <lortabac> I suppose that was an important factor in the choice of the implementation
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15:13:02 <dmj`> yea, if you don't pass the dictionary you /have/ to inline (I think), and that requires source from dependencies that wouldn't be available, unless its all in the .hi files
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15:26:56 <lortabac> dmj`: there is something else too. I think some more advanced features would be hard to express with monomorphization
15:27:28 <dmj`> lortabac: polymorphic recursion is the only other one, assuming you're sticking to haskell98 only
15:29:24 <lortabac> not Haskell 98, I was thinking of rank-n constraints
15:30:11 <lortabac> the choice of monomorphization would have made future developments harder
15:31:09 <lortabac> or things like abstracting on the type-class itself
15:31:37 <lortabac> forall c a. c a => ...
15:32:20 <lortabac> I don't know C++ well enough to be able to say whether this is possible with monomorphization :)
15:33:47 <dmj`> pretty sure C++ template instantiation happens before TC'ing so you can generate malformed code, whereas rust its post type-checking, but the concepts are related
15:34:51 <dmj`> yea it makes me wonder if rank n types were done out of necessity to handle dictionary passing, and then it became a hammer applied to other nails, like ST, existentials leading to exceptions
15:36:14 <lortabac> dmj`: the paper explains the motivations
15:36:40 <lortabac> and yes, one of the examples is about doing explicit dictionary passing in Haskell
15:37:55 <lortabac> https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/putting.pdf?from=https://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/simonpj/papers/higher-rank/putting.pdf&type=exact
15:38:49 <dmj`> yea that's the paper I'm looking at, hence why I asked
15:42:02 <dmj`> I guess polymorphic recursion keeps things undecidable even w/o rank n types
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18:11:33 <isovector> is there any good means of desugaring arrow notation?
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18:12:38 <isovector> i've tried `overloaded`, which is unmaintained, and `arowp-qq` which doesn't seem to build anymore
18:13:01 <isovector> and then i tried writing my own rewrite rules to get rid of the extraneous `arr` calls, but it seems wildly brittle
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19:35:04 <Athas> Is anyone familiar with a problem regarding a missing 'fpstring.h' header when building bytestring 0.12.1.0 on Windows?
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All times are in UTC on 2024-02-26.