Home liberachat/#haskell: Logs Calendar

Logs on 2024-03-01 (liberachat/#haskell)

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08:01:56 <tamer> Hey! I'm wondering why yesod app constantly uses 2% cpu on idle? Tried to play with rts switches but can't make it quiet.
08:03:16 <[exa]> tamer: might be polling nonsentially. Can you try with something like `strace` or perhaps `truss` (on bsds/macs) to see if it's doing syscalls?
08:04:04 <tamer> will try it
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08:39:34 <dminuoso> Note that tracing under macOS has some really hefty price tags attached to it.
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08:40:18 <dminuoso> Outside of having the com.apple.developer.endpoint-security.client entitlement on your Apple account, you need to disable SIP and AMFI
08:40:29 <dminuoso> Whether thats something you want Id say is highly questionable.
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08:41:38 <dminuoso> Or well, AMFI only if you are dealing with signed code.
08:41:46 <dminuoso> But disabling SIP is still a hefty burden,.
08:42:45 <dminuoso> (I mean you can selectively disable it for dtrace, but still)
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10:51:54 <dmj`> tamer: you could disable idle time GC (-I0)
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12:48:05 <cheater> https://hackaday.com/2024/02/29/the-white-house-memory-safety-appeal-is-a-security-red-herring/
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12:48:33 <cheater> enjoy
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14:26:45 <haskellbridge> <i​rregularsphere> i skimmed the report and article and honestly i don't see the report as a red herring at all - yes, improper input validation is the worst, but I still don't see why you would miss out on strict validation at all
14:30:41 <haskellbridge> <i​rregularsphere> either way i'm still a normie at best, can't say much unfortunately
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14:49:35 <tamer> [exa]: indeed it is polling and it seems caused by db connection. Thanks!
14:50:02 <tamer> dmj`: yep, tried it and other options on this page https://discourse.haskell.org/t/how-can-i-troubleshoot-slowly-growing-cpu-usage-in-long-running-haskell-executable/2242
14:50:16 <tamer> but it didn't help and for some reason I decided it's ok for haskell programs, but 2% is 2%
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14:53:37 <dmj`> tamer: did profiling show anything interesting
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15:13:08 <haskellbridge> <m​agic_rb> I have been thinking about lenses lately and i remember someone telling me that lenses dont work well with strcture changing operations
15:13:45 <haskellbridge> <m​agic_rb> I cant recall what precisely they meant tho, but i think it had something to do with hashmaps, so i went and looked at instances for At and indeed its implemented for hashmaps, so im at a loss
15:13:59 <haskellbridge> <m​agic_rb> And im also confused by this bit of the lens documentation, Note: Map-like containers form a reasonable instance, but not Array-like ones, where you cannot satisfy the Lens laws.
15:14:45 <haskellbridge> <m​agic_rb> Why wouldnt array like containers make a reasonable instance, looking at the lens laws didnt get me anywhere, except that an array is bounded, which maybe that somehow break the laws
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15:15:49 <EvanR> https://c.tenor.com/qUR-p8WwrvkAAAAd/beavis-and-butthead-breakin.gif
15:15:59 <c_wraith> magic_rb: Array-like types don't work with At because they're contiguous
15:16:30 <c_wraith> magic_rb: like, what does it do if you do (at 1 .~ Nothing)?
15:17:57 <haskellbridge> <m​agic_rb> It would have to reallocate the array? If we had `type LensArray a = Array (Maybe a)` but then thats essentially map with extra steps
15:18:11 <c_wraith> that violates the lens laws
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15:19:16 <c_wraith> the lens laws say that (set foo bar . set foo baz) should be equivalent to (set foo bar). But if it changes the length of the array, (set (at 1) (Just 1) . set (at 1) Nothing) is not the same as (set (at 1) (Just 1))
15:20:24 <haskellbridge> <m​agic_rb> Both would end up with `[Just (Just 1))]` technically no? If were doing the double maybe
15:20:37 <c_wraith> Not if the input was an array with length 5
15:20:56 <c_wraith> One of them will give you back an array of length 5. the other will give you back an array of length 4
15:21:30 <haskellbridge> <m​agic_rb> Ill have to sit down and play with this, becaude its not computing :)
15:21:40 <c_wraith> In general, the set-set law is the source of "cannot change structures"
15:22:03 <ncf> you wouldn't have set-get either
15:22:17 <c_wraith> ah, that's true for arrays
15:22:24 <ncf> set (at 4) to Nothing; then the array shrinks, and (at 4) now points to a non-Nothing value
15:22:26 <c_wraith> I was thinking of more cases than that.
15:22:51 <ncf> you can definitely have Ix (Array (Maybe a)) though, but that's not the same as At (Array a)
15:23:23 <c_wraith> like the set-set law is what prevents a lens from changing constructors of a type it's focusing on one value out of.
15:26:07 <ncf> in a way that the set-get law doesn't?
15:26:23 <c_wraith> yeah, if you were sufficiently malicious :)
15:27:07 <c_wraith> Note that the reason Map works with At is that it's an abstract type. The actual underlying tree structure might change, but that's not observable with the normal API. (Ignore that one debugging function that can observe it)
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15:32:03 <c_wraith> ncf: if you had (for some reason) a type like data `Bad = One Int | Two Int | Three Int' and wrote a "lens" that changed constructors in a rotation, it would pass set-get, but fail set-set
15:32:34 <ncf> how would it pass set-get?
15:32:48 <c_wraith> It would always get back the Int you set
15:32:58 <c_wraith> because that is being preserved
15:33:46 <ncf> so you're saying the lens for one would get One, but when setting it would first rotate and then set One?
15:33:52 <ncf> and similarly for the other two?
15:34:36 <ncf> yeah i see how that passes set-get but not set-set
15:34:42 <ncf> seems incredibly contrived though lol
15:34:46 <c_wraith> Oh, it is
15:34:57 <c_wraith> But that's why the law exists! rules lawyers!
15:35:34 <ncf> sure
15:35:55 <c_wraith> also, that fails the other lens law, too. So that example really is not close to being a lens
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15:37:45 <haskellbridge> <m​agic_rb> Yeah i was thinking of the `Ix (Array (Maybe a))` case, tried to convey that with my LensArray type but failed lol
15:37:57 <ncf> right, in terms of van laarhoven lenses you don't even have l Identity = Identity
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16:40:38 <[exa]> tamer: +1 for profiling, if you can identify what's happening there it's probably gonna explain everything
16:41:07 <[exa]> tamer: btw might be simply keepalives that need to be encrypted, or a short timeout on something that causes ssl reconnect (surprisingly pricy)
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17:02:09 <[exa]> EvanR: that gif is underrated
17:02:47 <EvanR> ikr
17:03:17 <[exa]> ghc 10 should produce this at each detection of unlawful instance
17:04:25 <dminuoso> And instead of Couldn't match type errors you just get a troll face instead?
17:04:36 <dminuoso> At my current rate, it would be about as helpful.
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17:09:27 <[exa]> ;_;
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17:17:02 <sm> oh I would like the GHC emoji errors plugin
17:17:20 <sm> or HLS plugin
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18:01:07 <tomsmeding> reminds me of https://esolangs.org/wiki/Fish#Errors
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18:17:09 <ncf> @where brain.explosion
18:17:09 <lambdabot> I know nothing about brain.explosion.
18:17:27 <ncf> @where head.explosion
18:17:27 <lambdabot> I know nothing about head.explosion.
18:17:44 <geekosaur> @quote brain.explosion
18:17:44 <lambdabot> No quotes match. Listen, broccoli brains, I don't have time to listen to this trash.
18:17:51 <geekosaur> @quote head.explosion
18:17:51 <lambdabot> quicksilver says: head-explosion is the solution, not the problem.
18:17:55 <ncf> thx
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19:51:57 <sm> @where+ why-stack https://www.fpcomplete.com/blog/why-is-stack-not-cabal (2015)
19:51:57 <lambdabot> Okay.
19:53:45 <EvanR> had to click that link to learn the actual sense of that question
19:53:52 <EvanR> or if it was a question
19:54:15 <EvanR> because I first read it as why stack is not cabal
20:01:01 <sm> "why is stack not cabal", "why stack is not cabal", "why stack" - all look about the same to me ? :)
20:01:42 <EvanR> yeah and many ways to read the question/statement
20:02:21 <sm> it's just a good intro to why stack was created, simple enough
20:02:24 <[exa]> "why"
20:02:31 <[exa]> isn't it kinda outdated now?
20:02:53 <tomsmeding> sm: how did you know it's from 2015? The page doesn't have a date marker
20:02:54 <EvanR> after scanning I did not see a summary answer to the question though
20:02:56 <sm> some of the cabal issues of 9 years ago are no more, yes. (Some are still with us!)
20:02:58 <EvanR> literally
20:03:11 <sm> tomsmeding: annoying isn't it. I searched the source
20:03:49 <yushyin> when stack with proper mixin support?
20:04:02 <yushyin> i guess never
20:04:18 <sm> what's mixin support, yushyin ?
20:04:39 <yushyin> stack repl doesn't work with mixins
20:04:53 <sm> I don't know what you mean by mixins
20:04:55 <geekosaur> backpack
20:04:59 <sm> ah, thx
20:05:37 <EvanR> someone is using backpack, cool
20:06:00 <geekosaur> I've seen a few uses. not many
20:06:14 <yushyin> i actually only use mixins :D but not much backpack
20:06:18 <geekosaur> tbh it's kinda a failed experiment: it needs to be part of the language, not a hack in the build system
20:06:28 <sm> +1
20:06:43 <sm> successful experiment, failed real-world tool
20:06:53 <Rembane> backpack, is that the OCaml module thing but in cabal?
20:07:01 <tomsmeding> yeah
20:07:18 <yushyin> i use it to e.g. shadow the prelude in some of my projects
20:07:28 <Rembane> Cool. Then I remember it seemed useful but I never used it.
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20:11:39 <yushyin> i switched back to cabal because of this and by then cabal was much easier to use with v2- anyway
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20:23:02 <monochrom> backpack was also too late. It came way after people found and adopted workarounds.
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21:58:50 → tri joins (~tri@ool-18bc2e74.dyn.optonline.net)
22:00:07 × tri quits (~tri@ool-18bc2e74.dyn.optonline.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
22:00:29 → tri joins (~tri@ool-18bc2e74.dyn.optonline.net)
22:01:17 × tri quits (~tri@ool-18bc2e74.dyn.optonline.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
22:02:17 → tri joins (~tri@ool-18bc2e74.dyn.optonline.net)
22:05:49 × michalz quits (~michalz@185.246.207.205) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
22:06:56 × tri quits (~tri@ool-18bc2e74.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
22:10:39 → tri joins (~tri@ool-18bc2e74.dyn.optonline.net)
22:12:00 × tri quits (~tri@ool-18bc2e74.dyn.optonline.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
22:12:33 → tri joins (~tri@ool-18bc2e74.dyn.optonline.net)
22:17:07 × tri quits (~tri@ool-18bc2e74.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
22:21:13 × wootehfoot quits (~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
22:23:34 × takuan quits (~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection)
22:23:38 → misterfish joins (~misterfis@84.53.85.146)
22:23:50 → tri joins (~tri@ool-18bc2e74.dyn.optonline.net)
22:24:40 → CiaoSen joins (~Jura@2a05:5800:29d:2500:e6b9:7aff:fe80:3d03)
22:29:48 × esph quits (~weechat@user/esph) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
22:30:21 → esph joins (~weechat@user/esph)
22:38:34 → julie_pilgrim joins (~julie_pil@user/julie-pilgrim/x-1240752)
22:48:11 × __monty__ quits (~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving)
22:52:38 × misterfish quits (~misterfis@84.53.85.146) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
23:00:25 × CiaoSen quits (~Jura@2a05:5800:29d:2500:e6b9:7aff:fe80:3d03) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
23:19:30 → bitdex joins (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex)
23:21:18 × mei quits (~mei@user/mei) (Remote host closed the connection)
23:23:43 → mei joins (~mei@user/mei)
23:25:14 × gmg quits (~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Quit: Leaving)
23:25:36 × tri quits (~tri@ool-18bc2e74.dyn.optonline.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
23:26:28 → tri joins (~tri@ool-18bc2e74.dyn.optonline.net)
23:30:15 × tri quits (~tri@ool-18bc2e74.dyn.optonline.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
23:30:27 → tri joins (~tri@ool-18bc2e74.dyn.optonline.net)
23:32:04 × julie_pilgrim quits (~julie_pil@user/julie-pilgrim/x-1240752) (Remote host closed the connection)
23:38:33 × whatsupdoc quits (uid509081@id-509081.hampstead.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
23:41:35 → acidjnk_new3 joins (~acidjnk@p200300d6e737e78641e22084adf23543.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
23:41:49 × acidjnk_new quits (~acidjnk@p200300d6e737e72241e22084adf23543.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
23:46:37 × acidjnk_new3 quits (~acidjnk@p200300d6e737e78641e22084adf23543.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
23:52:22 → Unicorn_Princess joins (~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542)

All times are in UTC on 2024-03-01.