Home liberachat/#haskell: Logs Calendar

Logs on 2024-03-05 (liberachat/#haskell)

00:00:36 <geekosaur> yeh, freeze files are a reasonable thing to check in, build plans not so much
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00:03:04 <glguy> Why blame me?
00:03:47 <haskellbridge> <s​m> A bit more than build plan documentation then, it is also a cache to save reparsing yaml files and looking up package versions in snapshots. But that's not usually noticeable.
00:04:10 <glguy> The documentation said that they made them so that you could commit them in source control and enable users on other machines to get the same build
00:04:30 <glguy> with the advantage that you don't have to write them yourself
00:05:22 <geekosaur> still sounds more like a freeze file than a lock file
00:06:39 <glguy> I think the choice of the word "freeze" or "lock" just varies by the particular build too rather than having semantic importance
00:07:09 <glguy> They're never like a cvs lock directory
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00:07:30 <haskellbridge> <s​m> in common practice just a stack.yaml and your package.yaml or .cabal file gives the same reproducibility, but the .lock file covers some evil corner cases that could bite you (rarely)
00:08:09 <haskellbridge> <s​m> yes, freezing in place / locking in place sounds similar to me
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00:09:10 <geekosaur> not to me, I kinda expect a lock file to do something like preventing multiple programs from accessing the same resource
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00:09:49 <glguy> well a lot of build tools have coopted the term, so you'll have to adapt :(
00:09:53 <haskellbridge> <s​m> sure, that's another more common usage
00:10:41 <glguy> but I know what you mean
00:11:06 <hololeap> why doesn't the tfdeps function here trigger a non-exhaustive pattern warning? https://0x0.st/H7SF.txt
00:11:36 <geekosaur> because `~` is irrefutable?
00:12:41 <glguy> hololeap: on recent GHC -Wall includes -Wincomplete-uni-patterns, which covers that
00:12:45 <geekosaur> specifically, it makes the pattern always match and only throw later
00:12:59 <haskellbridge> <s​m> ph88: I'd say if you're NASA, yes check it in, otherwise no real need, and any reduction in dirty files churn when you're trying to do other git stuff is valuable
00:13:32 <hololeap> % foo ~(Just x) = x
00:13:33 <yahb2> <no output>
00:13:42 <hololeap> % map foo [Just 3, Nothing]
00:13:42 <yahb2> *** Exception: <interactive>:277:1-17: Non-exhaustive patterns in Just x
00:15:10 <hololeap> so it has the same problems, but handles the error lazily? or is this a valid design pattern somehow?
00:15:18 <glguy> > let foo ~(Just x) = ('a', x) in fst (foo Nothing)
00:15:19 <lambdabot> 'a'
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00:15:49 <glguy> You only write ~ patterns when you *know* you aren't going to use the things bound by the pattern when it wouldn't have matched
00:15:51 <geekosaur> it's useful when the pattern might not actually be forced, or to break strict evaluation loops
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00:16:42 <glguy> and you can't write a ~ pattern with multiple cases, so if you're writing one you're saying you know when that constructor is going to match out of band
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00:20:13 <geekosaur> @src unzip
00:20:13 <lambdabot> unzip = foldr (\(a,b) ~(as,bs) -> (a:as,b:bs)) ([],[])
00:21:23 <redmp> Hi, I'm attempting to use CApiFFI by calling ghc at the command line, but I'm finding that on the first call to ghc I get a boatload of "implicit declaration" errors but I don't get them on subsequent calls. I think this is because something isn't being copied to the tmpdir wher the capi file is being generated on the first call.
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00:22:10 <redmp> What is the correct sequence of ghc or gcc commands to compile an .hs using CApiFFI and their corresponding .c files?
00:22:40 <redmp> Thanks in advance...
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00:25:55 <mauke> I don't think there is such a thing as a corresponding .c file
00:26:26 <mauke> redmp: what's your foreign import and what is the error message?
00:28:31 <jackdk> mauke: https://www.haskell.org/ghc/blog/20210709-capi-usage.html GHC compiles `CApiFFI` imports by constructing a C file containing a stub, and compiling that. This lets it `foreign import` things with awkward calling conventions or macros. I've never used it so I don't think I can actually help here, though.
00:28:35 <geekosaur> with CApiFFI? there is, because it has to go through the C compiler to support e.g. CPP
00:28:52 <geekosaur> but the file shouldn't vbe retained between runs
00:29:20 <glguy> redmp: Please construct an example file and failing command and put that on a pastebin so we can see what you mean
00:29:29 <redmp> mauke: I'm referring to a project directory containing, e.g. a foo.hs and foo.c; I could also put a foo.h in there if it's necessary.
00:29:35 <redmp> glguy: ok, I'll make a repro. Sorry.
00:31:24 <mauke> by "corresponding .c file" I meant the implementation of the C function
00:31:35 <mauke> not the intermediate code generated by ghc
00:32:36 <mauke> but the implementation doesn't have to be in C and is irrelevant to "implicit declaration" warnings/errors, because those come from the compiler and missing symbols would show up in the linking phase
00:34:20 <redmp> https://termbin.com/gmex
00:35:08 <mauke> yeah, your functions have no declarations anywhere
00:35:34 <glguy> redmp: when you're using the CApiFFI you need to tell GHC which header the function you're calling is in. https://ghc.gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/doc/users_guide/exts/ffi.html#the-capi-calling-convention
00:35:39 <mauke> which is not an issue with the usual FFI, but with the CAPI stuff ghc generates and compiles a little piece of C code
00:35:49 <mauke> so you do need a valid declaration in scope
00:35:50 <glguy> That's the header.h part of foreign import capi "header.h f" f :: CInt -> IO CInt
00:36:13 <redmp> ah, ok, i thought adding the header in there was optional.. i have different problems when i add the header in there, but let me try it and see
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00:37:08 <mauke> the header is syntactically optional in foreign imports, but omitting it makes no sense with capi
00:37:10 <geekosaur> one thing which I'm not sure if it will cause problems or not here, but if you are using `int` in C then you should use `CInt` in Haskell
00:38:21 <mauke> (I would have to check the report on whether Int in foreign C declarations automatically maps to CInt with conversions)
00:38:45 <glguy> redmp: Also, don't name the files foo.c and foo.hs, make sure the foo is different between those
00:38:53 <redmp> geekosaur: Yes, I'm using Foreign.C.Types in my real code. :)
00:39:14 <redmp> Ah, ok, I'll make sure the names are distinct too.
00:40:25 <glguy> redmp: https://termbin.com/6b23
00:41:26 <glguy> Haskell Int maps to HsInt and will be 32-bit or 64-bit depending on the platform
00:41:36 <glguy> CInt will map to whatever int is in C, which is probably 32-bit
00:53:17 <redmp> hmm, so, i'm having trouble replicating the thing in my project in the repro, so that's going to take a bit longer
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00:53:51 <redmp> but i tried what's in your paste, glguy and when i do `ghc Foo.hs impl.c` ghc only builds the o/hi files, no the executable
00:58:17 <redmp> here's a paste: https://termbin.com/73o2
00:58:39 <redmp> i changed my files to match glguy's and performed the same command, but only got o/hi files.. after adding `-main-is` everything worked
00:59:17 <geekosaur> you called it `Module Foo`
00:59:41 <geekosaur> it needs to be `Module Main` for Haskell to treat it as an executable, or use `-main-is`
01:00:07 <mauke> well, glguy did
01:00:41 <redmp> ah, my mistake
01:00:46 <geekosaur> are we looking at the same paste? 6b23 uses `module Main`
01:00:50 <mauke> oh, no
01:01:01 <mauke> sorry, I got confused
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01:02:29 <geekosaur> (also I incorrectly capitalized `module` twice, oops)
01:08:24 <redmp> clearly this is confusing; thank you both for your help
01:08:51 <redmp> the problem about duplicate definitions seems to have been because i was incorrectly including structs in my header; it's been awhile since i've used c, i guess
01:09:15 <redmp> s/both/three/g
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01:11:10 <mauke> struct definitions themselves are fine
01:11:14 <mauke> global variables aren't
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01:35:30 <redmp> mauke: thanks
01:36:03 <redmp> here's the repro for that behavior (two pastes; i recommend diffing them): `curl -s https://termbin.com/uxbt > before; curl -s https://termbin.com/wrw7 > after; vimdiff before after`
01:37:01 <geekosaur> yeh, you had the struct definition in the .c file instead of the h file
01:37:25 <geekosaur> so the .h file couldn't refer to it and the .c file found the implicit definition created from the dangling ref in the .h file
01:39:03 <redmp> ahh.. ok.. for some reason i thought structs belonged in the c file; i forgot all my c i guess... sorry for asking what ended up being c questions in #haskell!
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01:39:47 <geekosaur> struct *variables* go in the c file, definitions should usually be in the header
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08:48:39 <ph88> How can i get ApplicativeDo to work correctly with optparse-applicative? https://bpa.st/GVBA
08:50:30 <tomsmeding> ph88: that function is inherently monadic because whether you execute the 'option auto $ long "to"' action depends on the _result_ of an ealier action ('option str $ long "to"')
08:50:37 <tomsmeding> *earlier
08:51:30 <ph88> i don't want to parse it twice actually, let me try something else then
08:51:50 <tomsmeding> for a computation to be Applicative, the tree of all "monadic" actions must be known statically
08:52:03 <tomsmeding> because you only have (<*>) :: f (a -> b) -> f a -> f b
08:52:21 <tomsmeding> which actions to take cannot depend on values computed inside the "monad"
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08:52:40 <tomsmeding> (ApplicativeDo is a little more stringent about how you format your code as well, but this is the fundamental requirement)
08:54:04 <ph88> how can i fail the applicative when i use do notation ?
08:54:13 <tomsmeding> :t empty
08:54:14 <lambdabot> Alternative f => f a
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08:56:00 <ph88> which actions to take cannot depend on values computed inside the "monad" o_O
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08:57:05 <tomsmeding> I cannot describe it better :')
08:57:09 <ncf> it's probably a good thing that it's optparse-applicative and not optparse-monadic. you usually want to know statically all the available flags; interactions between them are processed later
08:58:05 <ph88> tomsmeding, the description was good, i'm just flabbergasted as to what the implications of that are
08:58:15 <tomsmeding> that's Applicative for you :p
08:58:28 <tomsmeding> good exercise may be to try breaking that rule using (<*>) (you can't)
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08:59:50 <ph88> I'm confused https://bpa.st/XYPQ
08:59:51 <ncf> closest you'll get is a parser of parsers, and then guess what class you need to turn that into a parser
09:00:04 <tomsmeding> lol
09:00:37 <tomsmeding> ph88: do you want to restrict the argument that you can pass to an option?
09:00:53 <ph88> yes either the word "current" or a integer-like string
09:01:00 <ph88> otherwise fail
09:03:37 <tomsmeding> ph88: the first argument of 'option' is a ReadM, which is a monad
09:03:57 <tomsmeding> perhaps `maybeReader _ <$> str`
09:04:04 <tomsmeding> or eitherReader
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09:07:55 <ph88> tomsmeding, like this should be ok no? https://bpa.st/DHRQ
09:08:30 <tomsmeding> I guess, does it work? :p
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09:10:58 <tomsmeding> "for an applicative parser that looks suspiciously monadic"
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09:31:25 <ph88> haha yes that's right :D
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09:48:56 <Aazam> Hello, I came across haskell through gsoc and am interested in it. Is it possible to get started with it as a beginner in haskell?
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09:51:50 <probie> Get started with GSOC, or get started with Haskell?
09:52:28 <Aazam> With GSOC specifically
09:53:56 <Aazam> The Continuous Integration Log Explorer idea seems to be the most beginner friendly
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13:49:42 <ph88> Anyone an idea how can i model the relations between two data types. Sometimes they are isomorphic and can be converted from/to. Other times it's a one way operation and some data will be lost. (context is database migrations between two versions of a model)
13:52:06 <Hecate> ph88: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/DataVersion-0.1.0.1/docs/Data-Migration.html
13:52:43 <Hecate> and there's also https://hackage.haskell.org/package/versioning-0.3.2.0/docs/Versioning-Base.html
13:55:20 <ph88> Hecate, Data.Migration looks nice but i don't see anything there to indicate it can be a one-way operation. And Versioning i don't like because it puts extra stuff in my actual types
14:00:50 <ph88> Would like to do something like this https://bpa.st/DPPQ
14:01:06 <ph88> like path files -> like patch files
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14:26:30 <Hecate> ph88: I see
14:26:48 <Hecate> I think simple stuff like a datatype and functions might just be the correct way to go
14:27:07 <ph88> alright i will start with some simple functions
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19:15:31 <zwro> can anyone point to a good resource for someone wanting to learn Functional Reactive Programming from first principles?
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19:28:22 <EvanR> first principles would arguably be conal's earlier papers on fran, and then conal's blog
19:30:11 <EvanR> which would give you a good basis to consider the difficulties and also identify how modern FRP ignores all that
19:30:35 <EvanR> and so diluted the brand a lot
19:31:07 <EvanR> arrowized FRP got a lot of the theory straightened out, but there aren't many implementations
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19:53:55 <f-a> Is there a sensible way of converting from Word32 to [Word8] (or a tuple of four Word8)?
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19:57:37 <mauke> oh, several
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20:00:14 <probie> > let x = 0x12345678 :: Word32 in [fromIntegral (x `shiftR` (8 * n)) .&. 0xff | n <- [0..3]]
20:00:15 <lambdabot> [120,86,52,18]
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20:02:00 <mauke> conv n | n < 10 = "afew" | n < 100 = "some" | n < 1000 = "many" | otherwise = "alot"
20:03:10 <f-a> makes sense probie
20:03:33 <ncf> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/network-3.1.4.0/docs/Network-Socket.html#v:hostAddressToTuple
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20:05:57 <probie> ncf: You've got to be careful with that, because it changes result depending on the endianness of your system
20:06:10 <EvanR> divMod or a combination of right shifts and AND by 255 is like popping from a byte stack
20:06:45 <EvanR> so a sensible way to express it is (,,,) <$> pop <*> pop <*> pop <*> pop xD
20:06:59 <EvanR> where the Word is the state
20:07:19 <mauke> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/data-serializer-0.3.5/docs/Data-Serializer.html#v:toBytes I guess?
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22:04:45 <d34df00d> Hi!
22:05:11 <d34df00d> Is there any easy lens spell with the type `Lens' a b1 -> Lens' a b2 -> Lens' a (b1, b2)`?
22:07:11 <dibblego> no, since it is not a valid lens as the result, but there is alongside
22:07:29 <d34df00d> dibblego: hmm, why isn't it valid?
22:07:40 <dibblego> it violates the lens laws
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22:08:43 <d34df00d> If you mean the ones here https://hackage.haskell.org/package/lens-5.2.3/docs/Control-Lens-Lens.html#t:Lens then I'm not sure I can build an example of such a violation.
22:10:58 <ncf> d34df00d: see https://hackage.haskell.org/package/lens-5.2.2/docs/Control-Lens-Unsound.html#v:lensProduct
22:11:26 <dibblego> I once wrote the code that demonstrates the law breaking, but it was so long ago, and I cannot find it
22:11:39 <ncf> the type system can't enforce that your two lenses aren't overlapping
22:11:48 <ncf> if they are, you don't get a valid lens
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22:15:09 <d34df00d> ncf: ah, interesting! I was too focused on my use case where they are indeed disjoint so I didn't think about this.
22:15:17 <d34df00d> Thanks for the example!
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23:27:31 <Axman6> d34df00d: a simple example is when both arguments are the same lens, if you have (1,2) & both _1 _1 .~ (3,4), what's the result?
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