Home liberachat/#haskell: Logs Calendar

Logs on 2024-03-06 (liberachat/#haskell)

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00:09:45 <Inst> just as a curiosity
00:09:57 <Inst> if someone were to attempt a NeoHaskell-like project, or rather, an attempt to build a new compiler
00:10:06 <Inst> would relegating type-level programming to GHC be a better idea?
00:10:43 <glguy> That would depend on what that actually means and what the point of making the new compiler was
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00:12:12 <Inst> glguy: the point of making a new compiler is to waste money, but on paper, the goal would be to have a faster performing GHC oriented toward production use, as opposed to research use
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00:13:18 <Inst> it'd basically be enforcing a variant of simple haskell
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00:13:26 <Inst> you don't like it, FFI into GHC-generated code
00:13:33 <Inst> if GHC doesn't give you a good time, not our problem
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00:17:10 <EvanR> coffeehaskell
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00:32:15 <janus> Inst: have you seen MicroHs?
00:33:05 <janus> given that it doesn't support TypeFamilies or DataKinds or TypeData, maybe the plan is something like what you mention
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00:35:57 <Inst> whoa, Dr. Augustsson's still working on it
00:36:10 <haskellbridge> <s​m> yup, it's new
00:37:25 <Inst> https://github.com/augustss/MicroHs/blob/master/Tools/Count.hs
00:37:27 <Inst> heretic!
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00:39:27 <Inst> /sarcasm
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00:48:19 <davean> h3r1t1c is in anther channel and doesn't do any Haskell these days.
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06:11:29 <rancidcake> Hi.
06:11:30 <rancidcake> I wanted to ask if values such as "True", "5" are also functions themselves in Haskell
06:11:30 <rancidcake> I tried searching for this topic but didn't find much
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06:16:46 <monochrom> Not functions.
06:20:30 <c_wraith> It's actually pretty easy to check. If you ask ghci for the type of an expression, functions are the one with (->) as the top-level type constructor. Anything else, and it's not a function.
06:21:57 <c_wraith> *with the very technical caveat that if the top-level type constructor is polymorphic, maybe it can be instantiated to a function, depending on... a few things.
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06:34:21 <Axman6> True definitely isn't a function, 5 could be though :)
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06:42:26 <jackdk> I'm glad the newbie's left, Axman6 =P
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06:56:46 <haskellbridge> <J​ade> `IsBool` when
06:57:42 <mauke> class Orable a where { (||) :: a -> a -> a }
06:58:38 <mauke> instance Orable Int where { 0 || y = y; x || _ = x }
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07:07:51 <rancidcake> Got it. Thanks monochrom and c_wraith
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07:10:33 <redmp> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/Boolean-0.2.4/docs/Data-Boolean.html#t:Boolean
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07:11:35 <redmp> generalized booleans, just like mauke described :)
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07:26:18 <jackdk> Just use `instance Monoid m => Monoid (a -> m)` with `Any` or `All`
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12:25:49 <ph88> c_wraith, thanks for the tip about the database migration it worked well (functionally) to put another version in another module. The only thing is that because so many types depend on each other i have to copy large swats of code, a big drag on productivity writing those migrations. I was considering using type parameters so i could pass in another version to types on higher levels, but decided against it because i don't want
12:25:49 <ph88> migration specific code to be part of the main code. Still most of the migration stuff is solving type errors where things are not pointing to the correct version and then copying over relevant data types and functions
12:26:55 <ph88> Which the language had something build in to version data types so that i don't have to do this boring copy pasting
12:26:58 <ph88> Wish *
12:36:21 <ski> ("considering using type parameters so i could pass in another version to types on higher levels" -- reminded me of backpack, parameterized modules)
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12:53:35 <ph88> ski, ye just that i like to stay with stack for the moment and there is no backpack support there
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12:54:31 <ph88> How can i pass in a flag (Boolean) to my program with the build tools? I like to enable/disable some code depending whether it's a development or release build
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13:19:12 <dmj`> ph88: cabal flags are good for that, combined w/ cpp-options you can enable / disable code within a module (using the c preprocessor), or w/ exposed-modules to swap out module implementations
13:19:38 <dmj`> ph88: see how text does it https://hackage.haskell.org/package/text-2.1.1/text.cabal
13:21:20 <ph88> can i use cabal flags with stack ?
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13:22:27 <dmj`> ph88: yea, stack still uses the Cabal library, which is where those get handled
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15:41:37 <raehik> hi folks. I'm writing some C-ish code and want a low-level u32 array. I originally went to the array package, but it feels weird, particularly immutable arrays. is primitive the "better" choice?
15:43:27 <raehik> array 's unsafe interface is lacking and immutable bytearrays are wonky:there's an open issue complaining about inefficient construction, and they seem not to provide any non-copying freeze/thaw (which I think can be useful, safely?)
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15:49:32 <dmj`> raehik: do you want to mutate the array or just construct and read from it? If you want to mutate I'd check out vector, specifically unboxed mutable vectors, it can also work with the PrimState type family to let you choose mutability in IO or ST.
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15:51:03 <raehik> dmj`: primarily mutation, but I was looking immutable too for better safety (I used too much IO in my first draft and it's nice to provide a pure ver)
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15:51:32 <raehik> I'm a vector enjoyer but, isn't it for resizeable arrays? My array doesn't change shape or size.
15:52:09 <raehik> (and I have assumed there's some perf overhead lost for supporting that)
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15:56:31 <raehik> hrm no perhaps not, underlying Vector stores a plain ByteArray. perhaps vector is the choice!
15:56:51 <dmj`> raehik: if your vector is mutable you can resize it, if its immutable you can only update it in place w/ freeze + thaw. There's a nice modify function helper for that.
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15:57:36 <raehik> ahhh vector uses the primitive pkg for a handful of things
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15:58:23 <raehik> dmj`: great, that's what I was looking for! array does not have that
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16:06:43 <ph88> suffering with llvm compile times, but worth it :>
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16:09:49 <dmj`> raehik: fair warning though, modify does copy the entire array into a new array, so if you're doing that a lot, a mutable vector might be more performant
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16:10:38 <raehik> no yeah I know there's some copying involved. array pkg was too weird and seemed overeager to copy
16:11:27 <raehik> I wrote a mutable version with array which is certainly more efficient but it's stuck in IO land. nice to have a pure ver too
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16:15:33 <c_wraith> raehik: fwiw, Array's unsafeFreeze/unsafeThaw are non-copying, assuming the representations are equivalent. But note the name. Both of those operations tend to be intensely unsafe. (freezing is easier to get right than thawing, but both can really go wrong)
16:16:49 <raehik> c_wraith: right. in my head I should be able to thaw array A to array B, process array B, then (unsafe)freeze B and wrap it up behind an unsafePerformIO
16:17:15 <c_wraith> yeah, that's a pattern begging to result in undefined behavior.
16:17:26 <raehik> oh, where have I gone wrong
16:17:50 <raehik> do you have to copy twice in this situation in general, rather than just once? :(
16:18:03 <c_wraith> Oh. If the thaw is safe, then that works.
16:18:12 <c_wraith> but don't unsafePerformIO, it's unnecessary
16:18:16 <c_wraith> you can just use ST
16:18:47 <raehik> ...I've never really understood the difference lol
16:19:04 <raehik> IO is just a ST wrapper in my head
16:19:13 <c_wraith> well, runST is safe (assuming there's no use of unsafeInterleaveST)
16:19:20 <c_wraith> that's a pretty big difference!
16:19:44 <raehik> OH! interesting god I have never paid attention to that type sig
16:20:45 <c_wraith> runST ensures that unless you're using unsafe ST operations, you're not running general IO and that references don't leak between contexts.
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16:21:19 <raehik> c_wraith: would you use the array pkg or vector pkg for something like this / what have you used before
16:21:51 <c_wraith> So it's a handy way to say "this block of code is more efficient if it uses mutation internally, but it doesn't need to be externally visible"
16:22:00 <c_wraith> I've used both.
16:23:11 <c_wraith> The only real differences I see that is the use of Ix to support more interesting bounds than [0, n) and that vector tries to do fusion magic that sometimes works.
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17:55:52 <raehik> c_wraith: thanks for the tips earlier, with vector I now have a much more sensible implementation that's hardly slower and much more useful. and hardly touch unsafe* funcs :)
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23:57:46 <shapr> Is there an explicit list of which GHC version have support?
23:58:06 <shapr> That is, can I drop support for ghc 8 and stick with ghc 9+ ?

All times are in UTC on 2024-03-06.