Home liberachat/#haskell: Logs Calendar

Logs on 2024-03-19 (liberachat/#haskell)

00:06:46 × rvalue quits (~rvalue@user/rvalue) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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01:27:48 × Mr quits (~junkedsta@80.233.62.26) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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02:15:03 × VedantT quits (~VedantT@2603-6000-b500-0019-50e5-1888-cb59-ca37.res6.spectrum.com) (Client Quit)
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11:36:04 <haskellbridge> <e​ldritchcookie> hello why isn't there a general purpose arbitrary precision real number datatype for haskell?
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12:04:57 <mauke> > showCReal 100 (sqrt 2)
12:04:58 <lambdabot> "1.4142135623730950488016887242096980785696718753769480731766797379907324784...
12:05:26 <haskellbridge> <e​ldritchcookie> cool which library is that?
12:05:40 <mauke> numbers
12:06:19 <int-e> @hackage rounded
12:06:19 <lambdabot> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/rounded
12:06:53 <mauke> @hackage numbers
12:06:53 <lambdabot> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/numbers
12:07:02 <haskellbridge> <e​ldritchcookie> nice so the anwser is that i don't know how to search hackage
12:07:31 <int-e> There's nothing in base because neither the implementation nor the API design for these things is obvious... unlike integers, where you just compute results exactly as long as they fit into memory.
12:07:41 × euleritian quits (~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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12:15:19 <haskellbridge> <e​ldritchcookie> ok rounded is broken on nixpkgs ghc9.8 but it uses gmp so i guess numbers is the way to go
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12:30:13 <int-e> worksforme, so this may be a nixpkg prob
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12:33:34 <haskellbridge> <e​ldritchcookie> say in the standard no semantic meaning is given to JSON numbers is there any reason why aeson uses Scientific instead of Double? how common are numbers which don't fit in a double?
12:34:10 <int-e> > (1 :: CReal) == 1 + 10^^(-42)
12:34:12 <lambdabot> True
12:34:47 <int-e> (CReal has issues)
12:36:33 <int-e> (This particular issue is that there's a hardcoded precision for Eq and Ord instances (and Show as well).)
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12:38:30 <haskellbridge> <e​ldritchcookie> i think it is due to the Num instance using round_uk
12:38:55 <haskellbridge> <e​ldritchcookie> because on Ord and Eq they use - directly
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14:17:44 <shapr> How's the Haskell community in Boston?
14:17:48 <shapr> Anyone here?
14:17:51 <shapr> @quote boston
14:17:51 <lambdabot> iteratee says: From the boston haskell lightning talks, dec 2014: Kmett's law: "Eventually I will use your library."
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14:25:10 <kuribas> Wouldn't that be, eventually you will use my library?
14:28:26 <__monty__> Maybe it's thinking ahead, eventually Kmett will use your library and therefore most Haskellers will. So don't publish anything lightly.
14:28:51 <tomsmeding> beware the Ed
14:29:04 <haskellbridge> <i​rregularsphere> interesting, haskell lore
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14:29:43 <haskellbridge> <e​ldritchcookie> say do we have a wishlist of libraries or something similar?
14:35:59 <kuribas> __monty__: oh well, nobody is using my libraries :-)
14:36:08 <kuribas> Well, some of my libraries...
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14:46:38 <haskellbridge> <i​rregularsphere> I was reading the `transformers` package and I found this: `All of the monad transformers except ContT and SelectT are functors on the category of monads...` I was wondering if it's good to file an issue about making a typeclass out of this (for the sake of generalization), or has it already been filed?
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14:47:32 <haskellbridge> <i​rregularsphere> Oh.... I realized it's hosted on Darcs. I don't want to bother creating another account :(
14:52:47 <lyxia> irregularsphere: see the package mmorph
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14:55:52 <haskellbridge> <i​rregularsphere> Thanks! Wonder why it isn't already in `transformers`/`mtl` though.
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15:00:17 <lyxia> it's harder to find a use case
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15:01:01 <haskellbridge> <i​rregularsphere> fair
15:01:41 <lyxia> and there are quite a few subtly different definitions, it's not clear which is the right one
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15:12:23 <haskellbridge> <i​rregularsphere> "harder to find a use case" just checked the documentation - yeah there's definitely a use-case (hoist generalize)
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15:14:25 <haskellbridge> <i​rregularsphere> "subtly different definitions"... of a monad morphism? `MFunctor` and `MMonad` has one clear defintion, so I don't know what you're talking about?
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15:18:12 <haskellbridge> <i​rregularsphere> also the monad morphism laws are trivially equivalent?
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15:38:15 <haskellbridge> <i​rregularsphere> damn, every idea I come up with has already been implemented before... maybe I am really late to functional programming
15:40:07 <danse-nr3> figure how would a mathematician feel ...
15:40:33 <ncf> the direction a monad morphism should go isn't fully agreed upon
15:40:45 <ncf> some people talk about lax monad morphisms and colax monad morphisms
15:40:58 <ncf> (for the fully general notion of morphism of monads on *different* categories)
15:41:24 <ncf> for monads on the same category it seems quite intuitive that the natural transformation should go in the "same direction" as the morphism
15:42:06 <ncf> (probably not what lyxia was talking about)
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16:02:46 <haskellbridge> <i​rregularsphere> danse-nr3: to be fair, pure math does seem complete at first glance... I don't know how pure mathematicians can spot very small gaps in the theory
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16:05:23 <haskellbridge> <i​rregularsphere> ncf: I see. In the case of Haskell though (since those monads are on the same category) I don't think that matters anyway
16:05:46 <haskellbridge> <i​rregularsphere> (I don't know anything about higher category theory)
16:14:42 <lyxia> For example, hoist in mmorph is arguably missing a Monad n constraint to more closely resemble a functor in the category of monads
16:15:51 <haskellbridge> <i​rregularsphere> ...right, didn't notice that
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17:05:35 <Fay> Hi all! My name is Fay, I am a self-taught functional programmer. I write most of my code in Rust, OCaml, and Typescript at the moment but I have enjoyed writing some Haskell and am eager to work with the language more.
17:06:20 <Fay> I am currently applying for Google Summer of Code and would like to work on the Haskell Language Server project proposed. I know my own experience with HLS, especially through Neovim, has been spotty at times and I would love to improve it for the larger community.
17:06:36 <Fay> I wanted to introduce myself before asking a bunch of technical questions. Super excited about this project!
17:07:15 <Fay> Also, please let me know if I'm in the wrong room or anything like that! Haven't used IRC in a very long time :)
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17:12:56 <tomsmeding> Fay: welcome! You're in the right room for general haskell questions, but there's a channel specifically for HLS at #haskell-language-server
17:13:15 <tomsmeding> if I'm not mistaken that HLS channel is primarily on the matrix side, but you'll notice soon enough I guess
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18:18:53 <tomsmeding> For intermediate-level Haskellers in or close to The Netherlands: the AFP summer school is coming up again in July! https://uu-afp.github.io/
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18:32:46 <Fay> #haskell-langguage-server
18:34:32 <ski> /join #haskell-language-server
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18:42:57 <Inst> erm, hey, anyone have an empty chrome instance they can crash?
18:43:16 <Inst> on Vivaldi on Linux, at least, you can cause lockup of your browser for an extended period of time
18:43:36 <Inst> via <script>while (true) {console.log("crash");}</script> in html
18:43:52 <Inst> Vivaldi's on Webkit
18:44:16 <Inst> If this also happens on Chrome / Chromium, it seems negligent of Google to not patch out this trivial crash
18:44:30 <Inst> because it could result in data loss scenarios if people are tossing infinite loop webpages around
18:46:02 <geekosaur> uh, there's only so much you can do about such things in Turing-complete languages
18:47:01 <ncf> also what does this have to do with haskell
18:49:14 <Inst> i guess it's more general computer science but it's interesting
18:49:18 <Inst> it's been reported since like 2014
18:49:31 <Inst> it's way more damaging than a rickroll, and is trivially insertable into any webpage
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18:51:36 tomsmeding uses firefox, browser works fine and cpu usage stops about a minute after closing the tab
18:52:38 <mauke> apparently in some old version of Windows/IE you could use the "save bookmark" javascript method to overwrite the OS kernel
18:54:30 <shapr> @quote
18:54:30 <lambdabot> monochrom says: Real World Haskell is not a spectator sport. :)
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19:04:38 <monochrom> :)
19:12:49 <c_wraith> I'm pretty sure I once saw someone criticize Real World Haskell as "so good it got 90% of its content moved into libraries so those parts are irrelevant now"
19:14:19 <monochrom> haha
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19:26:32 <ph88> Does someone know a good dummy type i can fill in for (* -> * -> *) -> * -> * ?
19:27:06 <ph88> hhmm maybe Either ()
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19:29:10 <ski> @kind Either ()
19:29:11 <lambdabot> * -> *
19:29:52 <ski> @kind Const (Either ())
19:29:53 <lambdabot> error:
19:29:53 <lambdabot> • Expecting one more argument to ‘Either ()’
19:29:53 <lambdabot> Expected a type, but ‘Either ()’ has kind ‘* -> *’
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19:41:01 <tomsmeding> ph88: what do you need the dummy type for :p
19:41:09 <ncf> :k Join
19:41:10 <lambdabot> error:
19:41:10 <lambdabot> Not in scope: type constructor or class ‘Join’
19:41:13 <ncf> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/bifunctors-5.6.2/docs/Data-Bifunctor-Join.html#t:Join
19:41:22 <tomsmeding> % data Dummy f a = Dummy (f a a)
19:41:22 <yahb2> <no output>
19:41:25 <tomsmeding> % :k Dummy
19:41:25 <yahb2> Dummy :: (k -> k -> *) -> k -> *
19:41:51 <tomsmeding> lol Dummy == Join
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19:42:55 <ncf> @djinn (a -> a -> a) -> a -> a
19:42:55 <lambdabot> f a b = a b b
19:43:05 <ncf> everyone agrees
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19:45:10 <monochrom> OK so does it mean that when people want "length (x,y) = 2" they should use "length (Join (x,y))" and then it will be 2? :)
19:47:55 <ncf> timesTwo = sum . Join . join (,)
19:50:07 <ph88> tomsmeding, just type puzzling at the moment see what works what not xD
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19:53:00 <EvanR> > length (x,y)
19:53:02 <lambdabot> 1
19:53:14 <EvanR> obviously the length is 1 and the width is 2
19:54:14 <EvanR> timecube has 4 sides: front back and 2 sides. The top and bottom are obviously not sides
19:55:01 <ncf> perhaps even funnier like this: timesTwo = sum . Join @(,) . join (,)
19:55:37 <ncf> duplicate the value then duplicate the type (???)
19:56:01 <ph88> is there an automated way to add package ranges to a cabal file (stack lts has been set)
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19:59:41 ski . o O ( `timesTwo = sum . ((Join @) <*> join) (,)
19:59:44 <ski> ')
20:00:18 <ncf> evil
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20:05:32 <geekosaur> ph88, does `cabal gen-bounds` do what you want?
20:09:34 <ph88> thanks geekosaur
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20:14:20 <tomsmeding> `cabal gen-bounds` won't do anything with stack, so the bounds will not necessarily match up with any stack lts
20:15:05 <geekosaur> right, but with stack all you would get is '==' constraints anyway
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20:15:28 <geekosaur> (you _can_ get that from cabal, if you download the lts as a freeze file, I think)
20:16:27 <tomsmeding> sure
20:16:58 <tomsmeding> but putting a stackage LTS in the stack.yaml and also putting ^>= constraints in the .cabal file, and having the two not match, is a recipe for trouble
20:17:27 <tomsmeding> ph88: is there a particular reason you're using stack? :p
20:18:39 <ph88> tomsmeding, it was recommended to me as easy for beginners back in 2015 and never felt the need to change :p
20:18:55 <tomsmeding> cabal has gotten better since 2015 :p
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20:19:14 <ph88> ye i think so too, even that it can use package sets from stackage
20:19:14 <tomsmeding> but if you're happy with the way your working, don't feel forced to change
20:19:29 <haskellbridge> <s​m> ph88: what's your reason for adding package ranges ? to make the package robust for non-stack users as well ?
20:19:47 <ph88> yes
20:20:21 <haskellbridge> <s​m> I think it's fine to use cabal gen-bounds to update the cabal file, it should still work with your recommended stackage snapshot
20:20:52 <tomsmeding> but then you should also test building using cabal, otherwise the bounds are a lie :p
20:21:01 <haskellbridge> <s​m> assuming it generates fairly broad ranges
20:21:05 <haskellbridge> <s​m> of course, always test
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20:21:43 <tomsmeding> sm: it will generate PVP ranges starting at the version selected by cabal's build plan
20:21:55 <tomsmeding> so e.g. '>= 0.7.10 && < 0.8'
20:22:16 <tomsmeding> that's not very broad and fairly likely to exclude your current stack lts
20:22:32 <haskellbridge> <s​m> ph88 should override that then
20:22:44 <haskellbridge> <s​m> if needed
20:22:57 <tomsmeding> can't one list the dependency versions that stack actually took?
20:23:06 <tomsmeding> i.e. the subset of the stackage snapshot that you're using
20:23:15 <tomsmeding> then a PVP range around that would be a good candidate
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21:58:02 <glguy> Related to ^>= constraints, you can use those with {} sets if you support multiple major versions
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22:18:46 <shapr> I'm using QuickCheck's monadicIO in an hspec test suite. One of the calls inside monadicIO hits "error" but the property doesn't fail.
22:19:03 <shapr> Any idea what I need to do for a monadicIO property to fail when it hits an error call?
22:19:22 <shapr> I tried `fail` instead, but same lack of test case failure.
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