Home liberachat/#haskell: Logs Calendar

Logs on 2024-04-01 (liberachat/#haskell)

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00:06:33 <c_wraith> is that even a rebrand? The name was obviously in french all along
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01:11:51 <monochrom> "libera cat" sounds like April 1st :)
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04:04:31 <Guest81> hey, I am wondering are there any haskell debuggers out there? quick google search doesn't get me anything relevant except for Debug.Trace
04:09:35 <ski> there's one built-in to GHCi, <https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/users_guide/ghci.html#the-ghci-debugger>
04:09:35 <geekopurr> ghci has a built-in debugger, and if you have a ghc build with DWARF information then you can use gdb to some extent
04:13:28 <Guest81> got it, any ide/lsp implementations that support interactive debugging?
04:16:35 <geekopurr> I don't think HLS supports debugging yet, but #haskell-language-server would know more
04:18:09 <geekopurr> (matrix generally works better than IRC for that, #haskell-language-server:matrix.org)
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04:26:55 <haskellbridge> <s​m> Guest81 look at ghci-tui too, it's nifty
04:27:35 <haskellbridge> <s​m> there is a debugger extension for vs code and it works but I found it temperamental
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10:53:40 <Inst> what is the performance difference between . and $?
10:53:54 <Inst> I see Bodigrim using $ where others might use ., why prefer $ over .?
10:54:36 <int-e> :t (.)
10:54:37 <lambdabot> (b -> c) -> (a -> b) -> a -> c
10:54:41 <int-e> :t ($)
10:54:41 <lambdabot> (a -> b) -> a -> b
10:54:48 <int-e> they're not even the same
10:55:35 <int-e> if you're asking about f $ g $ x vs. f . g $ x there's no performance difference because after inlining . or $ the code will simplify to the same thing
10:55:40 <int-e> so it becomes a matter of taste
10:56:14 <int-e> which of course means that some people have very strong opinions about it
10:57:52 <Inst> I know they're not the same, just wondering because I prefer foo . bar $ baz quux over foo $ bar $ baz quux
10:58:40 <Inst> semantically, though, it implies different control, no?
10:58:42 <Inst> in laziness
10:58:47 <int-e> no
10:59:12 <Inst> wait, maybe i have operator precedence in laziness messed up?
10:59:22 <Inst> the last operator to execute should have control
10:59:27 <Inst> so that's what you mean by no, right?
11:00:02 <Inst> in both cases, it's foo operating over a thunk
11:00:12 <ncf> operator precedence has nothing to do with laziness
11:00:29 <int-e> I'm saying no because ghc will inline . and $ and do the obvious beta reductions and then there'll be no difference between the $ version and the . version
11:00:58 <int-e> (maybe not with -O0 but that's not worth thinking about)
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11:04:01 <Inst> but semantically it's supposed to be $ applying (f . g) to x vs $ applying f to (g $ x)
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11:05:06 <Inst> which is the same, in practice, as you've said
11:05:14 <int-e> There's no observable difference between those two and f (g x)
11:05:31 <ncf> that sounds like syntax, not semantics
11:06:06 <Inst> thanks for the assistance
11:06:47 <Inst> it's just something that came up since i'm a pipeline / pointless addict, although obviously i don't get the "hard drugs" of pipelining multiparameter functions
11:07:16 <ski> with `f . g . h' you can break out `f . g' or `g . h' into its own definition (because `(.)' is associative)
11:08:01 Catty is now known as catties
11:08:43 <probie> int-e: there is an observable difference between all 3. `f $ g $ x` will still work if the value `f` returns isn't a lifted type, and `f (g x)` will still work if the value `g` returns isn't a lifted type
11:09:30 <int-e> yes, I did omit "if it type checks"
11:09:44 <ncf> do we have any type-level gurus in here
11:10:15 <ncf> if i have something like data App (a :: ()) (b :: ()) = forall f. Applicative f => MkApp (Proxy f) can i promote that to the type level so that i can write a type family that takes an App a b and returns a Type → Type
11:10:44 <ncf> my attempts are running into "Data constructor ‘MkApp’ cannot be used here (it has an unpromotable context ‘Applicative f’)"
11:11:24 <ski> the `f' there is only, in general, known at run-time
11:12:10 <ncf> so i cannae have type-level existentials?
11:12:27 <ski> hm, i guess with kind `App a b', the compile-time type of that kind would have `f' known ..
11:12:46 <ncf> (for reference i'm trying to define displayed categories and express Traversables as vertical endofunctors: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/O23Bq2ma)
11:12:55 <ski> .. but i've not seen any use of existentials with `DataKinds'
11:13:18 <ncf> i did find this absolutely cursed section of the docs but i don't think it helps me much https://ghc.gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/doc/users_guide/exts/data_kinds.html#promoting-existential-data-constructors
11:13:32 <ncf> the issue seems to be with the Applicative constraint
11:15:00 <ski> hm, interesting
11:15:39 <ski> yea, i guess promoting the constraint would require kind classes
11:16:22 <ski> maybe you could make an `ApplicativeDict' data type, promote that, and do some `unsafeCoerce#' or something ..
11:16:37 <ski> .. although, how would that work on the type level ?
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11:33:04 <lyxia> there are no type-level constraints
11:35:12 <ncf> hmm
11:37:15 <ncf> i'm not sure i even really need that
11:37:18 <lyxia> also the `id` and `o` in your DisplayedCategory are not the methods of Category
11:38:00 <ncf> ha?
11:38:28 <ncf> what else could they be?
11:38:40 <lyxia> free type variables that are going to be foralled
11:39:07 <ncf> oh
11:39:08 <lyxia> you've done too much Idris
11:39:15 <ncf> agda
11:39:29 <ncf> yeah i don't have a clear mental model of ghc's type level distinction
11:39:40 <ncf> can i refer to id at the type level at all?
11:39:44 <lyxia> nope
11:40:02 <ncf> 🙃
11:40:19 ncf closes vim.
11:41:20 <lyxia> come back in 10 years
11:41:32 <ncf> that's what they said 10 years ago!
11:41:35 <ncf> i think
11:42:00 <lyxia> functional programmers are optimists
11:43:21 <Rembane> Also incredibly constructive
11:43:44 <Inst> ehhh, JS comms I'm in are pretty functional
11:44:03 <Inst> hybrid FP is de rigeur these days, it seems
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11:45:28 <Inst> even if you go to Py Discords, most people are familiar with functools
11:45:50 <kuribas> FP in Python is still very painful.
11:46:10 <kuribas> Like trying to do functional update on a dataclass.
11:47:10 <Inst> and people were crying about jamming OOP support into php for years, iirc
11:47:27 <Inst> but it eventually happened, I think FP is well-established and respected as a programming technique these days
11:49:16 <kuribas> hmm, why does Spock set 500 when a param is missing, that should be 400...
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12:50:34 <lisbeths> Pls consider showing your support for #lambdacalculus channel ty
12:56:33 <ncf> pls consider not advertising other channels in here every other week ty
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15:13:39 <tri> hi, I'm using Reader to inject an environment into function. In that environment, I need to maintain a set of data, which will be seeded initial data when app starts, and when the app runs, I also need to add new item into that data set. So I think i should use a State monad there. So a Reader holding a set, which will be updated, is this the place
15:13:39 <tri> to use RWST or something similar? I have never used that before so im asking
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15:14:52 <tri> in other words, Im doing dependency injection via Reader monad, and one of the dependency is a set and will be modified during the app lifetime
15:17:09 <probie> Depending on the situation, the solution may be as simple as sticking an IORef in your reader
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15:17:47 <tri> i haven't learned about IORef yet so idk what that is
15:18:27 <tri> probie: so do you think i could work with this using the Reader and state monad?
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15:21:45 <ski> an `IORef a' is a reference (or index, if you prefer) to a mutable cell (kept in state carried around by `IO') holding a value of type `a'. there's `newIORef' to allocate a(n initialized) cell, `readIORef' to access contents, `writeIORef' to change contents
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15:23:02 <ski> if you use `ReaderT MyEnv IO', with `MyEnv' includig `IORef Foo', then you wouldn't need to use `StateT'. or you could use something like `ReaderT MyEnv (StateT MyState M)'
15:24:04 <ski> hm, i guess if you only need a piece to update, `StateT MyState M' may be enough
15:24:29 <ski> (`M' may be just `Identity', if you don't need any other effects, in which case you can skip it, and replace `StateT' by `State')
15:24:50 <probie> If your base monad is IO, you have to live in a world with the possibility of exceptions being thrown, and catching exceptions with StateT can give you surprising results. However, for simple things (and non IO things) reader + state is probably sufficient
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15:28:28 <tri> hmm, so you guys are slowly migrated toward ReaderT MyEnv State then?
15:29:35 <tri> probie: wdym by base monad is IO? Could you explain that please? You mean the the monad in ReaderT?
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15:32:45 <ski> `ReaderT MyEnv (StateT MyState (ContT MyAnswer IO)) MyResult' is called a "monad transformer stack". the monad transformers here are `ReaderT MyEnv',`StateT MyState',`ContT MyAnswer'. the "base monad" of this stack is `IO'
15:33:27 <ski> (generally, the order of monad transformers matter. for some particular transformers, the order doesn't matter though)
15:33:40 <ski> @unmtl ReaderT MyEnv (StateT MyState (ContT MyAnswer IO)) MyResult
15:33:40 <lambdabot> MyEnv -> MyState -> (MyResult -> MyState -> IO MyAnswer) -> IO MyAnswer
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15:33:47 <ski> @unmtl ReaderT MyEnv (StateT MyState IO) MyResult
15:33:48 <lambdabot> MyEnv -> MyState -> IO (MyResult, MyState)
15:33:57 <ski> @unmtl StateT MyState IO MyResult
15:33:57 <lambdabot> MyState -> IO (MyResult, MyState)
15:34:04 <ski> @unmtl ReaderT MyEnv IO MyResult
15:34:04 <lambdabot> MyEnv -> IO MyResult
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15:36:53 <ski> `StateT MyState Identity' is the same as `State MyState' (which would then become the base monad, e.g. in the `ReaderT MyEnv (StateT MyState Identity) MyResult' example, amounting to `ReaderT MyEnv (State MyState) MyResult'), and ditto for `ReaderT',`WriterT',`ContT'. for hysterical raisins, `ExceptT MyException Identity' amounts to `Either MyException'
15:38:17 <ski> `RWST r w s m' amounts to `ReaderT r (WriterT w (StateT s m))'
15:39:14 <Ashkan> Hello everyone. What is the proper way of modelling a `data` (struct) whose fields are filled in in various stages and in increments e.g. first you get it initialised `newThinge x y :: IO Thingie` and then `fillRestOfTheFields :: IO Thingie -> IO Thingie`. The two operations can not be merged and it must happen at two different parts of the code.
15:39:14 <Ashkan> Do I just
15:39:33 <Ashkan> (Oops, hit the Enter mid sentence)
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15:41:33 <probie> Ashkan: Do you know at each stage what fields are filled? If so, the most boring solution is just to have different types for different stages
15:41:44 <Ashkan> I know I don't *have to* fill all the fields when creating an instance but not all combinations of missing fields are valid. only two stages: initialised (has fields `x` and `y` filled) and fully constructed (the rest of the fields has values as well)
15:42:05 <ski> one approach is making two different `data' declarations. another is to merge those into one, parameterizing the differences. a third is to set uninitialized elements to `undefined'/`error "whatever"'
15:42:42 <ski> perhaps you could factor out the first part, and including that in the second
15:42:44 <Ashkan> probie Yes I do. But thing is having an extra `data` just to fill the gap doesn't look good :-. but if there is no better way ...
15:43:22 <ski> (having an instantiation system, like in Mercury, would be ideal, for this kind of thing ..)
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15:44:23 <Ashkan> To be exact, it is a texture for a game engine. The *texture* goes through various stages until fully constructed and ready to use. The stages are known, the fields needed/added at each stage are known, the initial and final stages and their fields are are well known.
15:44:58 <Ashkan> Its just that it can not happen all at once. There is a need to carry half-done textures around until they are fully constructed.
15:45:50 <Ashkan> I was thinking perhaps an indexed monad would help? Although I'm not even sure what that is, exactly !
15:46:48 <Ashkan> Can I enforce/encode the fact that a certain subset of fields *must* be present at all stages, using the `!` notation to make them strict? does this make sense?
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15:49:56 <ski> indexed state monad is for keeping track of a state, whose type can change during the computation
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15:50:51 <ski> (there's also indexed continuation monad, for when the answer type can change. basically this means delimited/composable/sub- continuations, aka nqCPS)
15:51:30 <ski> Ashkan : that would ensure that if thw whole thing is not bottom, then those fields are also not bottom
15:52:10 <Ashkan> Okay, better than nothing :)
15:52:52 <ski> (so, you could make sure that your functions are strict in it, to make sure that if any of those fields are not defined, then your whole computation is not defined)
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16:29:25 <sadie-sorceress> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/SibArGds
16:29:26 <sadie-sorceress> i have this recursion scheme(?) i'm using to annotate fold over a structure and annotate the structure with intermediate results. is there a better way to achieve this using the 'stock' tools in recursion-schemes?
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16:30:37 <sadie-sorceress1> (my actual use-case is annotating a syntax tree with inferred type constraints)
16:31:59 <chiselfuse> https://0x0.st/XzpX.txt
16:32:01 <chiselfuse> what do i do
16:32:11 <chiselfuse> it doesn't tell me what went wrong
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16:34:03 <geekopurr> as it says, rerun stack with the `--verbose` flag
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16:34:16 <geekopurr> it'll output a lot of stuff from `configure`
16:34:45 <geekopurr> usually it means you're missing some required system library
16:34:49 <chiselfuse> is there an ENV i can tell to pass --verbose to stack with?
16:35:01 <chiselfuse> because it's being run by some build script that's being run by my package manaager
16:35:50 <geekopurr> huh. I'd report that on their bug tracker, then; they should be ensuring that can't happen
16:37:51 <geekopurr> (if your package manager is running stack behind your back then it's on the package maintainer to ensure that it works)
16:38:23 <chiselfuse> i added the flag to the pkgbuild script, i'll check now
16:40:26 <chiselfuse> 2024-04-01 18:38:47.884757: [error] /home/terry/.stack/programs/x86_64-linux/ghc-tinfo6-9.6.3.temp/ghc-9.6.3-x86_64-unknown-linux/configure: line 6576: FP_PROG_LD_BUILD_ID: command not found
16:41:31 <chiselfuse> 2024-04-01 18:38:50.068326: [error] configure: error: Failed to determine machine word size. Does your toolchain actually work?
16:41:34 <chiselfuse> meh
16:41:47 <chiselfuse> so vague, what _failed_ to tell it my word size?
16:41:49 <geekopurr> definitely report that as a bug in the package you're installing
16:42:09 <chiselfuse> yea but i need to fix it first
16:42:17 <geekopurr> it's trying to compile a program which tests the word size and prints it
16:42:40 <geekopurr> the details would be in a `config.log` file
16:42:53 <chiselfuse> where would that be located
16:43:09 <geekopurr> I don't know where stack puts it when installing a bindist, sorry
16:44:27 <chiselfuse> https://0x0.st/XzpG.txt
16:45:25 <chiselfuse> looks like it `ld` is failing there
16:46:21 <chiselfuse> /usr/bin/ld.gold: pack-relative-relocs: unknown -z option
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16:58:48 <geekopurr> you definitely need to report that upstream (pkgbuild? is that gentoo?), you probably can't fix it yourself
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17:00:24 <chiselfuse> why are you discouraging me so much
17:01:06 <chiselfuse> hmm why the heck is stack building ghc in its own directory
17:01:15 <geekopurr> because these indicate a mistake made by the provider of the package; they should not be your problem at all
17:01:16 <chiselfuse> i already have it installed
17:01:27 <geekopurr> and stack is doing that because that's how it works
17:01:46 <geekopurr> it maintains its own ghcs and its own package store
17:02:40 <chiselfuse> geekopurr: from what i'm guessing, invoking stack to build the package i want causes it to try to build ghc and it fails because it's passing `-v` to `gold.ld` which says it's an unrecognized option and quits..
17:03:15 <geekopurr> it's saying "unknown -z option"; -z is for special options to ld (and it's not saying which one)
17:03:30 <int-e> meh https://github.com/commercialhaskell/stack/issues/6525#issuecomment-2002643812
17:04:35 <geekopurr> ah, it did say, it just put it out in front. "-Wl,-z,pack-relative-relocs"
17:04:52 <geekopurr> so your ld.gold doesn't understand that option
17:05:39 <int-e> chiselfuse: anyway that issue sounds very much like your problem
17:05:57 <int-e> and people are already negotiating whose bug this is
17:06:31 <geekopurr> and I'm not so much discouraging you as saying that you were given a broken package and left with a bunch of shattered pieces to pick up
17:06:49 <chiselfuse> int-e: did you extrapolate what it is, i'm still puzzling around in that thread
17:09:37 <chiselfuse> https://github.com/commercialhaskell/stack/issues/6525#issuecomment-2004398828
17:09:37 <chiselfuse> lmao
17:11:16 <int-e> chiselfuse: Well the connection is that you're (most likely) using Arch and this ticket explains where the 'pack-relative-relocs' flag comes from (I checked and ghc's configure script does not contain that string. But if it's put into LDFLAGS that will of course be picked up by `configure`.)
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17:12:48 <chiselfuse> int-e: that env isn't set on my system
17:12:51 <int-e> But it's `configure`'s choice to use gold, so there's some shared responsibility.
17:13:37 <geekopurr> no, the pkgbuild is setting it
17:13:53 <int-e> chiselfuse: How do you know? As I read it it's set by `makepkg`.
17:14:28 <int-e> (I'm not sure whether it's the PKGBUILD or some global config.)
17:14:36 <int-e> (I don't really care either, tbh)
17:14:54 <chiselfuse> int-e: https://aur.archlinux.org/cgit/aur.git/tree/PKGBUILD?h=hascard
17:15:04 <chiselfuse> this is the pkgbuild i'm using
17:15:22 <yushyin> https://gitlab.archlinux.org/heftig/rfcs/-/blob/pack-relative-relocs/rfcs/0023-pack-relative-relocs.rst it is this rfc
17:15:27 <chiselfuse> i don't see them being set. do you mean that it's hardcoded to be set by `makepkg` itself?
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17:15:49 <yushyin> https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/packaging/packages/pacman/-/merge_requests/6 implemented by this
17:16:37 <int-e> yushyin: you're faster than me :)
17:16:47 <yushyin> ;)
17:17:08 <chiselfuse> LDFLAGS="-Wl,-O1 -Wl,--sort-common -Wl,--as-needed -Wl,-z,relro -Wl,-z,now \ -Wl,-z,pack-relative-relocs"
17:17:12 <chiselfuse> found this in my conf, which one is the one hurting again?
17:17:18 <chiselfuse> makepkg.conf
17:17:33 <int-e> the -z,pack-relative-relocs one is not understood by gold
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17:20:29 <chiselfuse> i think package maintainers that build PKGBUILDs that use stack or ld.gold should then be instructed to override LDFLAGS
17:20:37 <chiselfuse> though i wonder if they can at all
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17:27:01 <yushyin> or force another linker
17:28:30 <chiselfuse> configure:3918: gcc -V >&5
17:28:30 <chiselfuse> gcc: error: unrecognized command-line option '-V'
17:28:32 <chiselfuse> fixed that now this lol ^
17:29:39 <yushyin> funny, stack issue tracker says not a stack bug. pacman issue tracker says not a pacman bug. lovely <3
17:32:38 <chiselfuse> and here i am, just wanted to try this https://github.com/Yvee1/hascard thing out
17:32:43 <geekopurr> chiselfuse, that should be a red herring, it tries several ways to get the compiler version and -V is actually intended for other compilers. it should retry with --version
17:33:32 <geekopurr> (ghc also supports various commercial C compilers, many of which don't like --version)
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17:41:17 <chiselfuse> i have to rerun
17:41:35 <chiselfuse> TIL i learned that makepkg isn't just a shell script runner
17:43:35 <chiselfuse> https://0x0.st/XzO2.txt
17:43:40 <chiselfuse> this thing doesn't like anything
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17:48:48 <int-e> Is that related? I.e. does linking against libraries created with pack-relative-relocs require special support?
17:50:12 <Guest|30> I have installed ghcup on Manjaro Linux. How should I configure my $PATH to run ghc, ghci and cabal (which have been installed in ~/.ghcup/bin)? Is ghcup supposed to add the bin directory to $PATH? Thanks.
17:53:10 <geekopurr> ghcup should have told you to `source ~/.ghcup/env` in your shell dotfiles
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18:18:22 <Guest|30> Thanks, @geekopurr!
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18:22:06 <geekopurr> ghcup doesn't do that for you because no matter how it adds it, it's wrong for someone
18:22:37 <geekopurr> (in fact, it's always wrong for my kinda horrific dotfiles and I add it to my `PATH` manually)
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18:34:09 <chiselfuse> int-e: good guess but idk. i've given up. RIP "hascord", looked like such a pretty tool in the github page
18:34:17 <chiselfuse> hascard*
18:37:35 <shapr> Is that someodd's hypercard clone?
18:38:11 <Guest|30> @geekopurr: I suspected the problem facing ghcup if it were to update the $PATH. However, I didn't see any mention of the need to update the .bashrc/.zshrc in the documentation. If it's there, maybe it needs to be more prominently displayed.
18:38:11 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
18:38:58 <Guest|30> geekopurr: I suspected the problem facing ghcup if it were to update the $PATH. However, I didn't see any mention of the need to update the .bashrc/.zshrc in the documentation. If it's there, maybe it needs to be more prominently displayed.
18:41:14 <geekopurr> I think the docs expect you to be reading ghcup's output when you install it. it's in the advanced installations (for manual installs) page https://www.haskell.org/ghcup/install/#manual-installation
18:41:42 <Guest|30> !Note: Guest|30 is hgolden on a different computer. I need to transfer my credentials to identify myself.
18:42:49 <geekopurr> (maerwald, you may want to be following this)
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18:45:24 <Guest|30> I missed that advice in the noise of the installation. Perhaps it could be separated from the other things to make it clearer to a new user of ghcup.
18:46:26 <geekopurr> I'd file that on ghcup's issue tracker https://github.com/haskell/ghcup-hs/issues
18:47:42 <Guest|30> Thanks, geekopurr. I will file it on the issue tracker.
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19:12:25 <shapr> Is there some way to generate valid base32 strings directly with QuickCheck?
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19:20:23 <sm> chiselfuse sorry you met such problems. Just curious, were you trying to install hascard from AUR or purely from source as in https://github.com/Yvee1/hascard#install-from-source
19:24:52 <haskellbridge> <s​m> Guest81 look at ghcitui too, it's nifty
19:26:25 <sm> ack.. don't edit old comments sm
19:26:43 <sm> ghcitui is an obscure name, I wanted to spell it right
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20:02:45 <chiselfuse> sm: i tried both, after fixing makepkg it also is now stuck at the point where ld.gold doesn't want to link against any *.so files i have as in my last paste i posted
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20:04:08 <haskellbridge> <s​m> and when you tried building from source, were you using ghcup-installed stack & ghc (not arch's ghc)
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20:08:22 <chiselfuse> sm: i'm not sure how to check i just cloned the thing and ran `stack build`. can you tell me how to check?
20:08:43 <chiselfuse> i do have ghcup and other tools installed from arch's repos
20:08:52 <chiselfuse> oh about stack..
20:09:26 <chiselfuse> yea i think it stack from arch's repos
20:09:33 <chiselfuse> not installed with ghcup
20:12:29 <haskellbridge> <s​m> if it's running ghc from ~/.ghcup/..., it's ghcup-installed
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20:16:04 <haskellbridge> <s​m> I can't say if it will solve. your issue but the most likely to just work is latest ghcup and stack + ghc (corresponding to hascard's stack.yaml) installed by that
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20:17:43 <chiselfuse> i don't think it matters. the linker won't link to stuff compiled here for some reason
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20:20:37 haskellbridge <s​m> wonders if this is a recent change on arch
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20:24:13 <chiselfuse> i'd dig down with you but i'm extremely tired rn
20:24:29 <chiselfuse> why can i not just pull a prebuilt binary from that repo, dear God
20:25:47 <chiselfuse> oh looks like there is one
20:25:57 <chiselfuse> heck yea
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20:27:23 <chiselfuse> i'll complain to arch people about stack l8r ig
20:32:01 <haskellbridge> <s​m> 👍🏻 it looked like a deep rabbit hole and people are on it, might need a little more time to clarify
20:33:54 <cheater> ah, stack. the gift that keeps on giving
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20:39:43 <Inst> hmmm
20:40:10 <Inst> am i mistaken when I say I don't see a lot of html templates on hackage, or in fact, I don't see any at all?
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20:40:54 <Inst> just wondering here, is it valid to create html datatypes
20:41:08 <Inst> typeclassed into toHTML
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20:41:49 <Inst> and use record syntax to manipulate these datatypes, i.e, set them up such that you now have widgets on Blaze or Lucid
20:42:02 <Inst> that are actualized via toHTML?
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20:49:24 <Inst> bleh
20:49:25 <Inst> https://haskell-miso.org
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21:31:24 <dmj`> Inst: yea miso copies Elm's rose tree approach (1 list of attrs, 1 list of children), and there is a ToHtml for it
21:31:47 <Inst> what i'm more looking for is a widget lib
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21:35:19 <Inst> blaze -> base framework -> widgets and tepmaltes
21:35:59 <dmj`> Inst: I'm not sure something like that exists w/o going full blown ghcjs or ghc w/ js backend. If you don't want to go client side, it would be possible to build what you're looking for with htmx, I'm considering trying this
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21:41:56 <Inst> i mean <script/> and <style/>
21:42:03 <Inst> even though the web devs I've met told me that's smelly
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21:48:27 <dmj`> Everything is smelly. Separate CSS and JS would be just easy to produce as <script/> and <style/> in a single page. Could be configurable
21:53:33 <dmj`> @package hyperbole
21:53:33 <lambdabot> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hyperbole
21:53:42 <dmj`> Inst: ^ might check that out
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22:04:10 <Inst> cool, thanks
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22:11:11 <Inst> thanks
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