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Logs on 2024-04-10 (liberachat/#haskell)

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01:36:27 <Axman6> I also find those instructions quite confusing - so they want data SR v = Add (SR v) (SR v) | Mul (SR v) (SR v) | Aid | Mid | V v?
01:36:31 <Axman6> do*
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02:55:32 <jcarpenter2> Is there a function that's like fmap, but with state? I'm looking for a type signature like: (a -> b -> (a, c)) -> a -> f b -> f c
02:56:30 <jcarpenter2> So you pass in a function that takes the "state" a, an instance b, and returns new state and an output (a, c); an initial state; and a container, and get back the mapped container
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02:56:57 <jcarpenter2> like a fold, but maps instead of reduces
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03:01:08 <geekosaur> :t mapAccumL
03:01:10 <lambdabot> Traversable t => (a -> b -> (a, c)) -> a -> t b -> (a, t c)
03:01:27 <geekosaur> same thing except you also get back the final state
03:01:52 <jcarpenter2> oh my gosh, thank you
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03:18:54 <jackdk> You could probably also do it with `traverse` using `State s` as your `Applicative`, but `mapAccumL` is going to be easier
03:21:03 <jcarpenter2> that makes sense
03:21:35 <jcarpenter2> boy, I haven't written Haskell in years, and now my brain is getting warped (un-warped?)
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03:49:38 <EvanR> I didn't know about mapAccumL for a long time
03:50:22 <EvanR> @src mapAccumL
03:50:22 <lambdabot> mapAccumL _ s [] = (s, [])
03:50:22 <lambdabot> mapAccumL f s (x:xs) = (s'',y:ys)
03:50:23 <lambdabot> where (s', y ) = f s x
03:50:23 <lambdabot> (s'',ys) = mapAccumL f s' xs
03:50:35 <EvanR> cmon nothing involving scanl?
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03:53:08 <Axman6> jcarpenter2: welcome back :)
03:53:38 <jcarpenter2> thanks :)
03:54:18 <mauke> :t (runState .) . traverse . (state .)
03:54:19 <lambdabot> Traversable t => (a -> s -> (b, s)) -> t a -> s -> (t b, s)
03:54:34 <jcarpenter2> It's rare things in life that genuinely give me the feeling of getting smarter. Haskell is one, The Witness was another
03:54:48 <poollovernathan> is there a way to ‘switch’ monads during a do-block? I'm playing with linear types (purely for fun/excercise) and want to make a linear-compatible State and I think I can do this by taking a `Maybe *` as a type parameter and making `get` switch from a `State (Just t) a` to a `State Nothing a`. I think the best way I can think of so far would be to use RebindableSyntax and change (>>=) to do
03:54:54 <poollovernathan> this; does anyone have ideas for other possibilities?
03:55:41 <Axman6> hmm, the first thing that comes to mind is indexed monads
03:56:57 <Axman6> https://wespiser.com/posts/2020-05-06-IxMonad.html
03:57:12 <Axman6> (an arbitrary post that looks relevant after skimming it)
03:57:53 <poollovernathan> those seem interesting! they seem simultaneously more general and concrete than my half-baked idea
03:59:54 <Axman6> and also https://kseo.github.io/posts/2017-01-12-indexed-monads.html which seems very close to your usecase
04:00:34 <Axman6> so rather than having a state of Maybe *, you'd just use the type or ()
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04:02:57 <poollovernathan> so I could make a `class IxMonad (s ∷ ★) (m ∷ s → s → ★ → ★) where (>>=) ∷ m p i a → (a → m i f b) → m p f b` and rewrite the standard library?
04:03:39 <poollovernathan> (if I had a nickel for every time I've had to rewrite a language's stdlib for a slightly different use case, I'd have two nickels)
04:05:41 <Axman6> perhaps, I'm not sure I understand the example, but it looks about right
04:07:37 <poollovernathan> oh, for example purposes I'd `instance IxMonad (Maybe ★) StateL where (>>=) = _`
04:09:19 <poollovernathan> then I'd define `get ∷ StateL (Just a) Nothing a` and `put ∷ a ⊸ StateL Nothing (Just a) ()`
04:09:43 <Axman6> Oh nice - type level MVars :p
04:10:06 <Axman6> that feels very much like linear types indeed
04:10:11 <poollovernathan> yeah, my main goal was to get this checking (no `get` twice in a row) at compile-time
04:11:38 <poollovernathan> time to make a working example…
04:12:03 <poollovernathan> or even some form of working code that appears useful when quickly glanced at
04:14:11 <jackdk> Most stuff I've read about Indexed Monads predates the QualifiedDo extension, which means you can ergonomically use them without RebindableSyntax
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04:16:46 <c_wraith> QualifiedDo is a fantastic extension for enabling not-quite-monads to work pleasantly without really heavy stuff
04:17:01 <Axman6> https://wickstrom.tech/2017-10-27-motor-finite-state-machines-haskell.html looks interesting and possibly related
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04:21:51 <Axman6> I miss Oskar's work, I remember he had a really good video series on Haskell on youtube and his haskell-at-work website (which appears to now be all spam)
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04:22:19 <EvanR> QualifiedDo
04:22:22 <EvanR> wwwwwhat
04:22:28 <poollovernathan> got Functor, IxApplicative, and IxMonad defined in session 2's ghci instance; time to see how much catches fire actually implenting them
04:22:37 <poollovernathan> oh! qualifieddo exists
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15:52:37 <jcarpenter2> So I'm writin' an AST in Haskell (big surprise /s)
15:53:30 <jcarpenter2> Not really sure how best to do it. I could do a regular expression tree like `data Expr = Const Int | Sum Expr Expr | ...`. Or I could use some kind free monad.
15:54:17 <jcarpenter2> I'd like to be able to map over this thing, reduce over it, and do all sorts of interesting things. As if `Expr` implements `Functor Expr`, `Traversable Expr`, and so on.
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15:55:49 <jcarpenter2> Right now I'm just writing a regular ADT, but I might try switching to something else
15:56:52 <ski> `Functor Expr' presupposes `Expr :: * -> *'
15:57:06 <jcarpenter2> Oh I'm sorry, you're right. I mis-phrased that.
15:59:51 <probie> I've found that simply adding an annotation to each node `data Expr a = Const Int a | Sum (Expr a) (Expr a) a | ...` strikes a good balance between "simple" and "extensible"
16:00:36 <jcarpenter2> I mean, it's like a functor with the contained type also fixed as itself. So you could write a function that recurses through the tree, and replacing sub-expressions with other sub-expressions.
16:01:52 <jcarpenter2> I was assuming Int as the type of values, not `a`.
16:03:04 <jcarpenter2> I think if I wanted to move away from an ADT, it would be to a monad. I want a sort of fixed point of `Expr (Expr (Expr ...))`
16:03:16 <jcarpenter2> to a *free monad.
16:03:40 <ncf> probie: isn't that the same as (Expr, a)
16:03:49 <ncf> oh no nvm
16:03:58 <ski> @where DecoratingStructures
16:03:58 <lambdabot> <http://web.archive.org/web/20051126143527/http://haskell.org/hawiki/DecoratingStructures>
16:04:07 <ski> @where IndirectComposite
16:04:07 <lambdabot> <http://web.archive.org/web/20051126141834/http://haskell.org/hawiki/IndirectComposite>
16:06:34 <ski> "it's like a functor with the contained type also fixed as itself" -- `fmap :: forall a b. (a -> b) -> (f a -> f b)' in `Functor f' is declared to be polymorphic in `a' and `b', you can't "fix those to be any particular types". there is a `MonoFunctor' class in some package, though ..
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16:10:08 <jcarpenter2> Thanks for the ideas ski !
16:10:37 <jcarpenter2> I should mention, I'm still playing, I'm not even really sure what I want. I'm hoping I'll discover what I want as I write some code.
16:11:04 <ski> @hackage mono-traversable
16:11:04 <lambdabot> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/mono-traversable
16:11:27 <ski> class MonoFunctor mono
16:11:29 <ski> where
16:11:31 <ski> omap :: (Element mono -> Element mono) -> mono -> mono
16:11:37 <ski> type family Element mono
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16:21:21 <probie> In my own personal code, I'm a big fan of `data Expr r = Const Int | Sum r r | ...` and then annotating via my choice of "fixed point" (e.g. `Fix Expr` `Fix (Compose ((,) SourceLoc) Expr)`), but I think that's a harder sell, and you hit issues if your type is mutually recursive
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16:22:25 <jcarpenter2> Interesting
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16:24:01 <ski> yea, that's IndirectComposite
16:25:31 <ski> probie : you can encode a record of types, all of the same kind, say `*', by parameterizing over a tag kind, like `Tag -> *', stuffing all the `data' constructors into the same declaration
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16:28:08 <ski> data AST (ast :: Tag -> *) :: Tag -> *
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16:28:10 <ski> where
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16:28:43 <ncf> hmm... i don't like this "mono functor" terminology at all
16:28:55 <ncf> this is more like a "thing equipped with a setter"
16:29:08 <ski> Assign :: ast RValue -> ast RValue -> AST ast Command
16:29:14 <ski> &c.
16:29:47 <ski> er, s/ast RValue/ast LValue/ for the first one
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19:26:51 <raehik> Is there a way to attach Haddock descriptions to type arguments in type families? The regular `-- ^ bla bla` syntax in the kind signature doesn't seem to work.
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19:29:42 <raehik> reworded, can I do the same Haddock docs for kind signatures as in type signatures
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19:39:49 <jle`> jcarpenter2: btw i think you're looking for something more like a fixed point than a free monad
19:40:15 <jle`> jcarpenter2: an Expr type like that is actually a common "tutorial" toy type for recursion-schemes
19:40:39 <jle`> jcarpenter2: ie https://blog.sumtypeofway.com/posts/introduction-to-recursion-schemes.html
19:41:01 <jle`> a lot of introductions to recursion schemes in different languages use an ADT like that as a tutorial
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22:25:44 <liamzy__> oh cool, i never knew about this
22:25:45 <liamzy__> https://mmhaskell.com/blog/2021/10/18/using-io-without-the-io-monad
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22:26:20 <Inst> better way to do it would be newtype over IO and use... wait, that was the whole MTL pattern, wasn't it? ;_;
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All times are in UTC on 2024-04-10.