Home liberachat/#haskell: Logs Calendar

Logs on 2024-04-12 (liberachat/#haskell)

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00:16:35 <Ptival> I'm trying something a bit too wizardy and could use some smart ideas. In my framework, there are a lot of newtypes `WrappedX` that are just wrapping instances of data types `RawX` with some metadata. Now I was writing too many `viewRawX :: WrappedX -> RawX` to my liking, so I decided to make a `HasRaw` type class with an associated `Raw` type
00:16:35 <Ptival> family s.t. `Raw WrappedX = RawX`. All good, but now I'm still writing many `HasRaw` instances that are super boring. So I've been toying with using TH to generate `Wrapped`. Unfortunately, many of my raw datatypes contain recursive instances of the wrapped datatype. But now that I want to stage things, the raw datatype cannot be defined in terms
00:16:36 <Ptival> of the to-be-generated wrapped one. I managed to work around this by introducing a reverse type family, `Wrapped`, so that in recursive instances within a `RawX` definition I can ask for a `Wrapped RawX`. But now comes the trouble of deriving standard stuff like Eq, Ord, Show... Now because nothing is known, a priori, about `Wrapped RawX`, I can no
00:16:36 <Ptival> longer add the deriving clauses to the data type definition. What I can do, however, is have the TH generate paired standalong instances `deriving instance Eq RawX; deriving instance Eq WrappedX`. Everything works, but is there a simpler way to go about all this? :)
00:17:26 <jackdk> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/lens-5.2.3/docs/Control-Lens-Wrapped.html and `makeWrapped` in Control.Lens.TH?
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00:17:45 <jackdk> I don't know if that solves your recursive case
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00:33:05 <Ptival> Also, I cannot figure out how to write a TH newtype instance using the `d` quasiquoter, and a spliced type declaration. [d| newtype Concrete = ... |] works, but the moment I try to [d| newtype $(return name) = ... |] I get a "Malformed head of type or class declaration" error...
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00:41:49 <Axman6> definitely feels like Wrapped to me. Also, Coerce
00:47:18 <c_wraith> Ptival: you can't just splice into arbitrary positions. You can splice a pattern, a type, a declaration, or an expression. The name of a newtype is none of the above.
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00:56:47 <Ptival> ah, that's the catch, thanks! so you pretty much have to use `newtypeD` for anything where the name is user-defined?
00:57:27 <c_wraith> yeah, you'll have to construct it by hand.
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02:40:58 <reki> Hi all! Can you recommend a place to showcase a project? I've been doing some research with Haskell UI
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03:29:38 <sm> hi reki. The haskell discourse, haskell reddit if you like, and #haskell rooms on Libera and Matrix are good places.
03:30:00 <sm> Also the #haskell tag on mastodon.
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03:46:34 <reki> awesome, thank you!
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03:48:08 <energizer> Num says "The Haskell Report defines no laws for Num. However, (+) and (*) are customarily expected to define a ring and have the following properties: Associativity of (+) ..."
03:48:27 <reki> Here's the project I've been working on. It's Haskell wrapper for Iced (a Rust gui library).
03:48:30 <reki> https://github.com/ibaryshnikov/iced-hs
03:49:04 <energizer> but + isnt associative on Float. what are we to make of this violation?
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03:54:27 <energizer> like, what's the point of having + be *usually* associative if you can't write code that assumes it's associative?
03:54:36 <energizer> (because sometimes it isn't associative)
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04:22:32 <c_wraith> energizer: in fact, I'd expect "usually" is there because that's not true for floating-point.
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04:48:11 <sm> reki: sounds possibly exciting!
04:48:20 <sm> thanks for sharing it
04:48:38 <sm> #haskell-game may also be interested
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05:12:56 <[Leary]> energizer: The Num docs ditheringly fail to assert the "customarily expected properties" as true laws, but you should take them as such in defacto modern Haskell, absent an updated Report to make them official.
05:13:14 <[Leary]> And it's morally correct to assume the typeclass laws hold when taking a constraint.
05:13:23 <energizer> except for Float?
05:13:26 <reki> @sm awesome, thanks!
05:13:26 lambdabot smashes a lamp on awesome, thanks!'s head
05:13:33 <reki> woops
05:13:40 <reki> what do I type to reply?
05:13:46 <energizer> just the name, no @
05:13:58 <reki> sm thanks!
05:14:04 <reki> didn't work
05:14:07 <energizer> it worked
05:14:12 <[Leary]> Float violates the Ord laws too. That's not ideal, but it is pragmatic.
05:14:31 <reki> nice. I don't see it in the ui
05:14:41 <geekosaur> this is IRC, not Discord
05:14:51 <geekosaur> the UI is… undramatic
05:14:59 <reki> gonna learn it
05:15:09 <reki> I've heard some great communities are here
05:15:15 <reki> like Lisp
05:15:30 <reki> I also came here for Haskell :3
05:15:49 <[Leary]> energizer: Unlawful instances are like unsafe functions. When writing an unlawful instance, it's the programmer's responsibility to document violations in detail. When selecting an unlawful instance, it's the programmers responsibility to ensure the violations don't threaten the correctness of their program. But everyone else gets to assume safety.
05:16:09 <[Leary]> (and lawfulness)
05:17:38 <jackdk> It's more complicated than that though, because if you write some code that uses a typeclass, then the presence/absence of the instance is the thing that tells you whether or not it works. You can't write `foo :: (SomeConstraint a, a is not any of these unlawful instances X Y Z) => a -> whatever`
05:17:39 <energizer> how do you ensure violations don't cause incorrectness if you're violating the documented assumptions of your dependencies?
05:18:04 <mauke> reki: IRC doesn't really have replies, but most clients highlight messages that start with your nick
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05:18:39 <jackdk> energizer: my view is that you don't write law-violating instances
05:18:54 <jackdk> energizer: and I try not to think about Num too much because otherwise I get sad
05:19:27 <reki> mauke: that's cool! The UI looks cosy
05:19:58 <mauke> which client are you using?
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05:24:07 <reki> Halloy, the one written in Rust
05:24:34 <reki> it also built in Iced, I feel like using it :)
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05:26:59 <[Leary]> jackdk: You don't need to write that, you just make the only sane decision you can: defer responsibility to the usage site where `SomeConstraint A` is actually selected and supplied to `foo`. A programmer who supplies an unlawful instance must read your implementation details or perform extensive testing to know whether or not /they'll/ break /their/ program. /Yours/ is perfectly correct.
05:27:44 <jackdk> I don't disagree, but then you enter a world where fearless coding against abstractions becomes more and more difficult
05:27:51 <jackdk> And I'd rather not enter that world
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05:34:21 <haskellbridge> <s​m> savage, lambdabot!
05:35:05 <haskellbridge> <s​m> we need a bot tamer
05:36:15 <haskellbridge> <s​m> reki: I was just looking at the iced sample apps. Have you built any with you haskell lib yet ?
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05:41:27 <reki> sm: only the examples so far
05:41:54 <reki> I'm porting original iced examples to Haskell, it's possible to build and run them
05:42:11 <haskellbridge> <s​m> excellent
05:42:32 <haskellbridge> <s​m> some screenshots in the readme will help (even if the same as iced's)
05:43:00 <reki> all the layout examples are good to go, one of the next priorities is handling IO/networking
05:43:10 <reki> will do, thank you for the feedback!
05:43:41 <haskellbridge> <s​m> code looks very nice: https://github.com/ibaryshnikov/iced-hs/blob/master/examples/textEditor/main.hs
05:44:24 <reki> that was the goal
05:44:48 <reki> I also recommend responsive example
05:44:50 <reki> https://github.com/ibaryshnikov/iced-hs/blob/master/examples/responsive/main.hs
05:45:52 <reki> you can decide if you want to show the contents depenging on the container size
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07:05:45 <bgt32> Is there are website that hosts previous versions of ghc, I want 8.10? something like tio.run...
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07:22:36 <dminuoso> lyxia: Thanks! The suggestion was spot on: https://gist.github.com/dminuoso/8904237b4a8c6b30265b32e748766af2 b
07:24:41 <dminuoso> bgt32: ghcup or nix can both provide 8.10
07:24:49 <dminuoso> bgt32: Alternatively you can download GHC directly from https://www.haskell.org/ghc/download.html if you want to manage it manually
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07:33:49 <sm> stack, too
07:35:15 <sm> https://play.haskell.org too
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07:49:12 <albet70> how to get two item combination in a list like [1,2,3] -> [1,2] [1,3], [2,3]
07:50:01 <c_wraith> you want to preserve order?
07:50:59 <ski> > [[x,y] | x:xs <- [0,1,2,3],y <- xs]
07:51:00 <lambdabot> error:
07:51:01 <lambdabot> • No instance for (Num [()]) arising from a use of ‘e_10123’
07:51:01 <lambdabot> • In the expression: e_10123
07:51:12 <ski> > [[x,y] | x:xs <- tails [0,1,2,3],y <- xs]
07:51:13 <lambdabot> [[0,1],[0,2],[0,3],[1,2],[1,3],[2,3]]
07:52:24 <ski> (you could also use `StateT [t] []' for this)
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10:01:16 <bgt32> I'm solving a competative programming problem and am having a hard time pinning down a bug. Everything works fine on my machine, and on other online compilers. It is giving a different answer on the actual site.
10:01:33 <bgt32> https://codeforces.com/contest/1955/submission/256217090
10:04:26 <bgt32> on a different platform, https:tinyurl.com/yp79ye8u
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10:05:17 <bgt32> * https://tinyurl.com/yp79ye8u
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10:24:24 <ncf> wild guess: CRLF is messing with your (== '1') logic
10:30:02 <bgt32> ncf: That's it! thanks. I never had a problem with CRLF before using ByteString.
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11:36:38 <cheater> having problems installing pcre-light (with stack). what sort of linux lib do i need to install for it? it doesn't mention anything on the hackage docs.
11:38:39 <cheater> i tried all the ones i could think of
11:42:29 <lyxia> cheater: the doc says "If installation fails with missing pcre/pkg-config, try installing the libpcre3-dev package (linux)" https://hackage.haskell.org/package/pcre-light
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12:36:26 <cheater> lyxia: i have that installed
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12:37:05 <cheater> libpcre3-dev is already the newest version (2:8.39-13ubuntu0.22.04.1).
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12:37:52 <cheater> it's a fresh install. i installed it a couple hours ago.
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12:42:57 <bgt32> Are mutable arrays better during initial construction, than a simple Data.Array? I have some data that will only be read after initial construction, will mutable arrays provide any speed up?
12:43:52 <cheater> the only answer is "benchmark in production"
12:45:27 <bgt32> Hmm, so no simple answer...
12:45:29 <nullie> bgt32: where's no fundamental reason why mutable array should be faster if you do not change it
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15:14:51 <cheater> what's the simplest way to turn a Text into a lazy BS?
15:15:44 <Rembane> cheater: Have you tried asking Hoogle? Text -> Lazy.ByteString
15:16:21 <cheater> oh i didn't know you could qualify like that
15:16:23 <cheater> thanks
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15:16:57 <cheater> ok erll
15:17:01 <cheater> that's not what i wanted
15:17:10 <cheater> i get Data.Text.Lezy.Encoding.encodeUtf8
15:17:15 <cheater> but my Text is not lazy
15:17:18 <cheater> my BS is lazy
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15:19:02 <Rembane> cheater: Does this one do what you want? https://hackage.haskell.org/package/text-2.1.1/docs/Data-Text-Encoding.html#v:encodeUtf8
15:19:17 <Rembane> Hm... no, not really. A Lazy is missing.
15:19:45 <cheater> yeah it's apparently going to be encodeUtf8 . fromStrict
15:19:47 <cheater> no shorter
15:20:12 <Rembane> That seems reasonable.
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15:21:02 <c_wraith> It's not going to work how you want, either way
15:21:23 <c_wraith> Unless you take the steps to explicitly chunk the Text
15:22:15 <c_wraith> If you don't, it's going to give you a lazy text with a single chunk, and it'll convert that to a lazy bytestring with a single chunk.
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15:24:03 <Rembane> cheater: Out of curiosity. Why do you need a lazy bytestring?
15:24:17 <cheater> trying to decode with aeson
15:24:38 <cheater> i have a json that i decoded with aeson. it contains a string field. that string field contains an escaped json.
15:24:51 <cheater> i need to decode *that* and get a field out of it.
15:25:06 <cheater> so, when i look up the field in the outer json, aeson gives me a Text.
15:25:15 <cheater> but to use Aeson.decode, i need an LBS
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15:25:43 <c_wraith> I don't know why aeson is using lazy bytestrings for input in the first place... It's not like it's an online parser. It needs to consume the whole thing to identify decoding errors.
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15:26:20 <c_wraith> I guess it's more memory-efficient if your data type throws away a lot of the content, or something.
15:27:27 <cheater> shruggity mcshrug
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15:47:34 <monochrom> Yeah most cases throw away the whole bytestring, e.g., converting to Text instead at least.
15:48:15 <c_wraith> ok, this turns out to be really funny with lens-aeson
15:49:13 <c_wraith> which lambdabot doesn't have installed, so I guess c/p
15:49:31 <c_wraith> ("{\"foo\":\"{\\\"bar\\\":2}\"}" :: Text) ^? key "foo" . _String . key "ba
15:49:31 <c_wraith> r" . _IntegerJust 2
15:49:37 <c_wraith> ... good work, me.
15:49:49 <monochrom> It was also coming from the last days when people used lazy bytestring's readFile.
15:49:55 <c_wraith> ("{\"foo\":\"{\\\"bar\\\":2}\"}" :: Text) ^? key "foo" . _String . key "bar" . Integer ---> Just 2
15:50:08 <monochrom> (Well, I still use it today.)
15:50:42 <c_wraith> lens-aeson just lets you treat either text or either bytestring as json data.
15:51:01 <c_wraith> So, like.. just index into a string by key, it'll work!
15:51:39 <monochrom> haha that is deep magic
15:53:07 <ncf> ("{\"foo\":\"{\\\"bar\\\":2}\"}" :: Text) & key "foo" . _String . key "bar" . _Integer +~ 1
15:53:08 <ncf> "{\"foo\":\"{\\\"bar\\\":3}\"}"
15:53:49 <c_wraith> You know. For when you want to modify a string as if it's nested JSON
15:55:25 <monochrom> Python and TCL dream come true.
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16:15:21 <cheater> > ("{\"foo\":\"{\\\"bar\\\":2}\"}" :: Text) ^? key "foo" . _String . key "bar" . Integer
16:15:23 <lambdabot> error:
16:15:23 <lambdabot> Not in scope: type constructor or class ‘Text’
16:15:23 <lambdabot> Perhaps you meant ‘T.Text’ (imported from Data.Text)
16:15:32 <cheater> > ("{\"foo\":\"{\\\"bar\\\":2}\"}" :: T.Text) ^? key "foo" . _String . key "bar" . Integer
16:15:37 <lambdabot> error:
16:15:37 <lambdabot> • Variable not in scope:
16:15:37 <lambdabot> key :: [Char] -> b0 -> T.Text -> Const (First a) T.Text
16:15:53 <cheater> lmao...
16:16:29 <cheater> c_wraith: wow i didn't even know.
16:16:29 <c_wraith> I did mention lambdabot doesn't have lens-aeson installed. Can't even import it.
16:16:32 <cheater> that makes it easier btw
16:16:38 <cheater> you did?
16:16:40 <cheater> i missed it
16:16:44 <cheater> in all the lens spam
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16:16:50 <cheater> not a fan of lens myself
16:17:03 <cheater> oh yeah you did say that
16:17:04 <cheater> cool
16:20:09 <cheater> what do you call a directed graph where you can color the nodes one of n colors?
16:20:34 <cheater> speicifcally if the nodes all start white and you're allowed to color one node at a time black, then that's a finite state machine
16:22:20 <cheater> but i'm looking for more than two colors (probably like 3-4: true, false and not allowed to becomne true, false but allowed to become true)
16:23:01 <cheater> and i want more than one state at a time (e.g. i want to start in state A and i want to be able to reach state Z using one of multiple paths that exist in the directed graph)
16:23:21 <ncf> i don't understand
16:23:27 <cheater> me either.
16:23:31 <cheater> but what do you not understand?
16:23:41 <ncf> your description of a finite state machine
16:23:48 <ncf> what are the states?
16:25:02 <cheater> a finite state machine is a collection of states, call them A...Z, and allowed transitions between those states, call them t1...tn
16:25:36 <cheater> you have an initial state that is colored black. let's say the node called A is the initial state, and is colored black.
16:25:39 <cheater> all other nodes are white.
16:26:00 <cheater> as you transition from A to one of the other allowed states, A becomes white and the other new state becomes black
16:26:07 <cheater> so you have:
16:26:12 <cheater> - 2 colors (black and white)
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16:26:43 <cheater> - exactly one node must be colored black at any time (no more, no less)
16:26:53 <cheater> does that make sense?
16:26:59 <cheater> that's a finite state machine.
16:27:09 <cheater> think of like
16:27:14 <cheater> a stick gear shifter
16:27:24 <cheater> you can transition from some positions to some others
16:27:32 <cheater> where the stick is, is a black node
16:27:37 <cheater> where the stick isn't, is a white node
16:27:44 <sm> morning all
16:27:47 <cheater> that's an FSM
16:27:58 <sm> solved your pcre-light install cheater ?
16:28:02 <cheater> no
16:28:19 <sm> want to share the error output ?
16:28:23 <cheater> sure
16:28:53 <ncf> so that's a FSM on a one-letter alphabet, yes?
16:29:07 <ncf> i mean, what you're describing is just a directed graph
16:29:16 <cheater> yes
16:29:31 <cheater> well
16:29:36 <dolio> Except graphs don't even have to be finite.
16:29:36 <cheater> idk what you mean by one-letter alphabet
16:29:39 <ncf> finite* directed graph with a chosen initial state i guess
16:29:55 <cheater> sm: ok i actually noticed... The program 'pkg-config' version pcre-light > >=0.9.0 is required but it could not be found.
16:29:56 <cheater> duh
16:30:02 <cheater> so i need to figure out how to get that
16:30:12 <haskellbridge> <s​m> 👍️
16:30:18 <cheater> The program 'pkg-config' version >=0.9.0 is required but it could not be found.
16:30:23 <cheater> that's the actual error
16:30:55 <ncf> well an FSM is an automaton that recognises words from some language by applying transitions for each letter of the word from an initial state
16:31:40 <ncf> if all your transitions are treated on an equal footing then i guess your alphabet is a singleton, so you're effectively recognising numbers instead of words
16:31:46 <cheater> sm: so someone told me that "stack setup" might install pkg-config, can you corroborate?
16:32:16 <geekosaur> only on windows if it installs an msys2 environment
16:32:17 <cheater> ncf: i didn't understand anything you said there
16:32:21 <cheater> geekosaur: ah
16:32:28 <geekosaur> otherwise it's an OS package you need to install
16:32:34 <cheater> geekosaur: i'm on GNU/Linux
16:32:39 <cheater> cool
16:32:42 <sm> geekosaur knows all! :)
16:33:07 <geekosaur> on my ubuntu it's the pkg-config package
16:33:14 <sm> googling for that error message is also often helpful
16:33:22 <cheater> sweet tyvm
16:33:24 <cheater> i did google it!
16:33:28 <sm> s/googling/kagi-ing/
16:33:31 <cheater> i was reading through that stuff from top to bottom
16:33:35 <ncf> cheater: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finite-state_machine#Mathematical_model
16:34:21 <sm> cheater bad luck I guess.. for me the first google hit was https://groups.google.com/g/haskell-stack/c/E6zGmRnT3Ls which gave geekosaur's answer
16:34:32 <cheater> lol
16:35:10 <cheater> i'm reading that too
16:35:11 <cheater> and
16:35:15 <cheater> i didn't see it.
16:35:49 <sm> I'm talking about the first answer https://groups.google.com/g/haskell-stack/c/E6zGmRnT3Ls/m/SksReP9RBwAJ
16:36:07 <sm> it's not the final answer you are seeking, you still need to do a bit more work
16:36:17 <cheater> ah, yes, i just saw it too
16:36:21 <cheater> my eyes glanced over it
16:36:39 sm doesn't need to install pkg-config often & doesn't remember the deal with it
16:36:41 <cheater> love to be made blind by my own stupidity
16:36:51 <sm> it's human :)
16:36:57 <cheater> :)
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20:15:56 <akegalj> If I have `newtype F = F Int` how can I derive Show instance that would be the same as for Int (without printing constructor name)
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20:16:30 <akegalj> can I autoderive it somehow without manually implementing Show class
20:16:52 <tomsmeding> akegalj: https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/users_guide/exts/deriving_via.html#extension-DerivingVia
20:17:08 <tomsmeding> `deriving Show via Int`
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20:19:41 <geekosaur> note however that this is not recommended, since a Show instance should match a Read instance
20:20:16 <tomsmeding> and even if you're not interested in Read: Show instances are meant for _debugging_ and showing data structures _as they are_
20:20:33 <tomsmeding> Show is not meant for pretty-printing (notwithstanding the fact that some people use it like that)
20:21:04 <tomsmeding> the reason for that is not that Show is unsuited for it (the class works decently well for basic pretty printing), but that there is only one Show!
20:21:29 <tomsmeding> i.e. if you've written pretty Show instances and you now want to debug your programs, you have no derived Show anymore to see how your data actually looks
20:21:34 <tomsmeding> (how do you debug your pretty printer?)
20:21:58 <monochrom> This is where Rust has two type classes instead of one.
20:22:22 tomsmeding wants that in haskell too
20:22:50 <tomsmeding> python has it too, even if in the (untyped) OOP way instead of using type classes (repr() vs str())
20:22:59 <akegalj> tomsmeding: I can't use `deriving via` with data, only for newtypes?
20:23:09 <monochrom> I think that even two is not enough. There are like 5 standard ways to print a natural number.
20:23:53 <tomsmeding> akegalj: `deriving via` only works if the data type itself, and the "via" target, can be coerced to each other
20:23:57 <akegalj> what should I use then for pretty printing ?
20:24:06 <tomsmeding> (if you're interested, read the link I posted)
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20:24:15 <akegalj> ok thny
20:24:18 <akegalj> thnx
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20:24:58 <tomsmeding> I usually just make my own Pretty class (class Pretty a where { prettysPrec :: Int -> a -> ShowS } ; pretty :: a -> String ; pretty x = prettysPrec 0 x "")
20:25:09 <tomsmeding> but there may be something on hackage already
20:26:37 <EvanR> ironically, there is only one Show is the reason I sometimes did quick and dirty newtype F = F Whatever to quickly "show" a different representation
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20:27:17 <EvanR> > x -- shows one thing
20:27:18 <lambdabot> x
20:27:20 <EvanR> > F x -- shows another
20:27:22 <lambdabot> error:
20:27:22 <lambdabot> Data constructor not in scope: F :: Expr -> t
20:27:23 <EvanR> uhg
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20:27:50 <tomsmeding> prefix it with a color-reset byte (ctrl-C, O in weechat)
20:27:57 <tomsmeding> > lambdabot be silent
20:38:19 <mauke> use /notice >:)
20:42:26 <c_wraith> that sounds like effort. I'm more likely to use /oblivious
20:43:11 <monochrom> I have a binary search tree library for teaching purpose, and I gave it multiple output formats: a parenthesized infix notation, a vertical format, Java code, two LaTeX codes (tikz, forest). I made none of them Show, I just made one function for each.
20:44:39 <tomsmeding> monochrom: but does the tree data type have a normal, derived Show instance?
20:44:51 <monochrom> Yes.
20:44:59 <tomsmeding> Perfect!
20:45:08 <monochrom> But I seldom use it.
20:46:05 <tomsmeding> that is mostly immaterial :)
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