Logs on 2024-04-14 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 00:50:58 | <haskellbridge> | <maralorn> I found a solution which was muuuch simpler than dependent types or gadts. |
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| 03:21:21 | <masaeedu> | well, don't leave us hanging... |
| 03:24:07 | <masaeedu> | i have this problem frequently as well and would like to know of non-GADT solutions |
| 03:29:36 | <halloy4906> | something like preventing meaningless events? say, open the door, open the door - second is invalid |
| 03:29:46 | halloy4906 | is now known as reki |
| 03:36:17 | <masaeedu> | reki: yes, exactly |
| 03:36:31 | <masaeedu> | or at least assuming i understood the question correctly |
| 03:38:59 | <reki> | also, elm architecture is really popular |
| 03:40:56 | <reki> | though the problem seems complicated because ui can still be issuing the events when state has already been updated |
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| 04:40:48 | <mauke> | I have discovered a truly marvelous solution, which this IRC channel is too narrow to contain |
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| 04:50:06 | <jcarpenter2> | :eyes: |
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| 14:04:37 | Inst_ | is now known as Inst |
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| 14:18:16 | <Inst> | erm, I'm playing with variadic functions in haskell |
| 14:22:17 | <Inst> | For variadic functions, is there any way I can get the default out of this? |
| 14:22:20 | <Inst> | https://paste.tomsmeding.com/ZgfO2cG5 |
| 14:24:50 | <ncf> | what do you mean by get the default? |
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| 14:28:50 | <tomsmeding> | Inst: try 'instance (Foo a, arg ~ Int) => Foo (arg -> a) where' |
| 14:29:09 | <Inst> | there's a default declaration here |
| 14:29:14 | <Inst> | and thanks for being helpful ncf :) |
| 14:29:35 | <ncf> | oh you mean get rid of it? |
| 14:29:38 | <tomsmeding> | instance matching is greedy and doesn't look at the context of the instance, so 'Foo (Int -> a)' will only be chosen if GHC can already otherwise determine that the argument has type Int |
| 14:30:07 | <tomsmeding> | if you generalise the thing to 'Foo (arg -> a)' then the instance will always match, and subsequently the instance context will enforce that the argument should actually be Int |
| 14:30:41 | <Inst> | ah, so it's not an issue with Haskell |
| 14:31:00 | <tomsmeding> | of course, this trick doesn't work if you want to have multiple choices for the type of the argument |
| 14:31:51 | <Inst> | IIRC, what was the reason that typeclass abuse became acknowledged as typeclass abuse in Haskell? |
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| 15:50:01 | <Inst> | sm |
| 15:50:17 | <Inst> | do you have a link to typeclassopaedia? I saw it a couple of years back, but I haven't been able to find the link to it anymore |
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| 15:51:57 | <geekosaur> | https://wiki.haskell.org/Typeclassopedia first hit for "haskell typeclassopedia" for me… |
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| 15:56:35 | <Inst> | i remember there used to be a dedicated website for that |
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| 16:01:32 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> https://haskell-links.org |
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| 16:44:07 | <sm> | speaking of which.. I'm confused why squarespace is contacting me to renew this.. did they buy up my registrar ? seems unlikely |
| 16:48:14 | <sm> | oh wow.. yes, they took over google domains |
| 16:48:42 | <geekosaur> | that was reported here a couple weeks ago, yes |
| 16:49:19 | <geekosaur> | better than google's usual behavior of just dropping the service entirely… |
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| 17:02:47 | <EvanR> | google domains R.I.P. |
| 17:03:31 | <monochrom> | Can't wait until they also kill their AI effort. >:) |
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| 17:37:49 | sm | initiates transfer proceedings |
| 17:39:40 | <tomsmeding> | sm: where are you moving it to? |
| 17:40:46 | <sm> | Cloudflare. I have my other domains there, and it's non-spammy and powerful. Probably has lots of other issues.. (centralisation..) |
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| 18:24:23 | <juri_> | monochrom: i can't wait until i can do AI stuff in haskell. doing assembly by hand, currently. |
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| 18:33:04 | <Inst> | https://paste.tomsmeding.com/NAEXh8x7 |
| 18:33:08 | <Inst> | this code still doesn't work :( |
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| 18:36:03 | <Inst> | IIRC there's Varargs support in universum |
| 18:38:52 | <geekosaur> | how is that supposed to work? you are assuming that the only possible instance for the inner `foo` is `Int`, but typeclasses are open-world |
| 18:39:25 | <geekosaur> | that is, nothing stops someone from defining an `instance Foo String` which would then not typecheck |
| 18:40:07 | <tomsmeding> | juri_: is the AI stuff and the assembly related? |
| 18:40:26 | <Inst> | ah |
| 18:41:02 | <Inst> | Just playing around with varargs, I mean, I can copy the pattern from printf, but that feels clunky |
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| 18:42:50 | <juri_> | tomsmeding: very. |
| 18:43:22 | <juri_> | tomsmeding: https://github.com/ggerganov/llama.cpp/pull/6440 |
| 18:43:23 | tomsmeding | is curious, also how haskell would improve things |
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| 18:45:05 | <juri_> | i don't have any good answers, sadly. I think I might be back to haskell when i start working in FPGAs.. |
| 18:45:24 | <tomsmeding> | cool stuff! |
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| 18:46:53 | <tomsmeding> | writing that assembly inline in C string literals must be painful |
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| 18:48:20 | <juri_> | not as painful as managing pointer arithmatic in C and in inline assembly. |
| 18:48:40 | <tomsmeding> | heh |
| 18:48:46 | <juri_> | they're not actually different worlds, but they can feel like it. |
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| 18:52:33 | <tomsmeding> | I feel like if what you're interested in is low-level performance optimisations on particular hardware, haskell is not the tool to reach for |
| 18:52:50 | <tomsmeding> | haskell is good for composition and abstraction in a safe way |
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| 18:53:08 | <tomsmeding> | (where python is good for glueing and duct-taping together) |
| 18:57:26 | <EvanR> | can't haskell be "good" at gluing and duct-taping together things |
| 18:58:06 | <EvanR> | in the sense of python |
| 19:01:52 | <Inst> | is there any way to get a TC variadic that produces a lambda behind it? |
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| 19:03:17 | <Inst> | because, ummm, Oleg Kiselyov's paper seems to use accumulating parameter |
| 19:03:45 | <EvanR> | haskell's overlooked object system |
| 19:03:56 | <EvanR> | (probably for the best) |
| 19:05:02 | <Inst> | was referencing this: https://okmij.org/ftp/Haskell/polyvariadic.html#polyvar-fn |
| 19:05:44 | <Inst> | https://arxiv.org/pdf/cs/0509027.pdf |
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| 19:06:28 | <Inst> | thanks EvanR |
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| 19:48:27 | <juri_> | tomsmeding: you're probably right. in C / Assembly / ???, its sacrifice everything for performance. composing these high performance frameworks into a product is where i want haskell. i can hit a C compiler with a wrench when i need to, but hitting GHC is a little more complicated. |
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| 19:52:55 | <tomsmeding> | what would hitting GHC with a wrench entail :p |
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| 19:54:10 | <geekosaur> | that's `accursedUnutterablePerformIO` 😛 |
| 19:54:41 | <juri_> | I don't know! and that's the frustrating part. I really wish GHC was using a C compiler under the hood. more steps in the pipeline makes bending the pipeline easier. |
| 19:54:59 | <juri_> | (ok, i'll stop ranting now. GRR, i hate C!) |
| 19:55:14 | <tomsmeding> | use GHC 7 or so, it had -fvia-C :p |
| 19:55:38 | <juri_> | Want. :) |
| 19:55:44 | <geekosaur> | although actually you don't because the C it produced was pretty grody |
| 19:56:14 | <geekosaur> | and then got postprocessed by a Perl script |
| 19:56:39 | <juri_> | sounds like exactly what i'm looking for. ;) |
| 19:57:13 | <EvanR> | does ghc have plugins for the intermediate stages of compilation, or just type checking |
| 19:57:16 | <geekosaur> | I think -fvia-C went away in 7.2 |
| 19:57:29 | <tomsmeding> | microhs also compiles via "C" https://github.com/augustss/MicroHs/tree/master/generated |
| 19:58:00 | <geekosaur> | some intermediate stages https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/9.8.1/docs/users_guide/extending_ghc.html#compiler-plugins |
| 19:58:01 | <EvanR> | C"" |
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| 20:27:36 | <Inst> | hmmm, that is cool, you can build a naive hlist with tuples and polymorphism |
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| 20:28:32 | <Inst> | I looked up the paper trial, it was because of this kata |
| 20:28:51 | <Inst> | https://www.codewars.com/kata/55a4de202949dca9bd000088/ |
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| 20:29:06 | <Inst> | I took an interest in varargs since it naturally seemed to have been looking for varargs solutions |
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| 20:29:40 | <Inst> | btw, if you want to get 1kyu quick on Codewars, just use Haskell; they apparently have a ton of misranked Kata because they're in Haskell and/or Haskell specific |
| 20:30:07 | <EvanR> | varargs: [arg] -> A |
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| 20:31:36 | <Inst> | paper trail |
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| 20:32:12 | <Inst> | yeah i saw that technique in some Haskell console libs |
| 20:32:17 | <Inst> | i probably should play with Brick one of these days |
| 20:32:23 | <Inst> | i still owe you guys a game |
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| 21:00:34 | <Inst> | just curious, but is there a way to get Tuples to parse unit as a nil for an hlist? |
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| 21:34:39 | <cheater> | i ran hasktags -bx . and set vim to use TAGS and all the tags are off by one line. anyone know why that happens? |
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| 23:09:42 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> Liamzee: ansi-terminal-game is better suited to games |
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| 23:15:28 | <janus> | cheater: i don't know but i use fast-tags: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/fast-tags |
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| 23:41:12 | <Inst> | thanks for the suggestion @sm |
| 23:41:26 | <Inst> | also, I'm not being reckless, and this is embarrassing, but... |
| 23:41:43 | <Inst> | I'm testing hackage-server right now on my system, and I can't get the behavior to be the way I need it to be |
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| 23:42:36 | <geekosaur> | you probably want to ask in #hackage:matrix.org |
| 23:42:46 | <geekosaur> | (or #hackage on libera) |
| 23:44:23 | <Inst> | thanks |
| 23:44:43 | <geekosaur> | that said, there's no guarantee that "the way you need it to be" was included as a design consideration |
| 23:45:19 | <Inst> | oh, it's simply getting browse to sort by lastUpload |
| 23:54:28 | <Inst> | so unless I'm missing something, sm, doesn't seem to be as simple as you suggested? |
| 23:54:39 | <Inst> | in ref to a convo a couple of days back |
| 23:59:11 | <Inst> | sm: should I consider this beyond my paygrade and simply submit it as an issue and walk off? |
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All times are in UTC on 2024-04-14.