Logs on 2024-05-03 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 09:57:30 | <gastus_> | HLS: Is type of thing below cursor and goto definition eg of cabal installed packages implemented or did I missconfigure Neovim / vscode ? |
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| 10:10:05 | <haskellbridge> | <fendor> not implemented, but a PR exists https://github.com/haskell/haskell-language-server/pull/3749 |
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| 10:14:20 | <haskellbridge> | <fendor> but type of thing below cursor works fine, so perhaps misconfigured |
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| 10:25:28 | <danse-nr3> | /j #emacs |
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| 10:55:48 | Lord_of_Life_ | is now known as Lord_of_Life |
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| 11:07:00 | <jackdk> | great idea |
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| 13:07:40 | yin | is now known as onion |
| 13:08:21 | <onion> | why can we write `x :: Bool = True` but not `f :: a -> a = id` ? |
| 13:09:00 | <danse-nr3> | > f :: a -> a = id |
| 13:09:02 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:13: error: parse error on input ‘=’ |
| 13:09:27 | <danse-nr3> | > x :: Bool = True |
| 13:09:28 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:11: error: parse error on input ‘=’ |
| 13:09:41 | <danse-nr3> | in a let i guess |
| 13:09:58 | <danse-nr3> | > let x :: Bool = True in x |
| 13:09:59 | <lambdabot> | True |
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| 13:10:18 | <danse-nr3> | > let f :: a -> a = id in f True |
| 13:10:19 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 13:10:19 | <lambdabot> | • You cannot bind scoped type variable ‘a’ |
| 13:10:19 | <lambdabot> | in a pattern binding signature |
| 13:11:17 | <onion> | ah |
| 13:11:27 | <onion> | > g :: Bool -> () = const () |
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| 13:11:29 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:17: error: parse error on input ‘=’ |
| 13:11:50 | <onion> | wait, i can do this in ghci |
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| 13:15:51 | <onion> | :t id |
| 13:15:52 | <lambdabot> | a -> a |
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| 13:16:11 | <onion> | f :: forall a. a -> a = id |
| 13:16:17 | <onion> | > f :: forall a. a -> a = id |
| 13:16:18 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:23: error: parse error on input ‘=’ |
| 13:16:22 | <onion> | hm... |
| 13:17:00 | <onion> | > let g :: Bool -> () = const () in g True |
| 13:17:01 | <lambdabot> | () |
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| 13:20:27 | <onion> | > let q :: forall a. a -> a = id in q 7 |
| 13:20:29 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 13:20:29 | <lambdabot> | • Couldn't match expected type ‘forall a1. a1 -> a1’ |
| 13:20:29 | <lambdabot> | with actual type ‘a0 -> a0’ |
| 13:21:11 | <danse-nr3> | i don't think the forall helps, but i am not sure why just `a` would not work |
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| 13:23:46 | <ncf> | https://ghc.gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/doc/users_guide/exts/scoped_type_variables.html#pattern-type-sigs |
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| 13:23:57 | <ncf> | this explains why a -> a doesn't work, but not why forall a. a -> a doesn't |
| 13:24:10 | <onion> | thanks ncf |
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| 13:27:50 | <onion> | i just found out i can write this: |
| 13:29:01 | <onion> | > let f (a :: Int) (b :: Bool) (c :: a) = (a,b,c) :: (Int,Bool,a) in f 7 False "ok" |
| 13:29:03 | <lambdabot> | (7,False,"ok") |
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| 13:35:43 | <onion> | > let id' (f :: a -> a) (x :: a) = f a :: a in id' id 7 |
| 13:35:45 | <lambdabot> | a |
| 13:36:15 | <onion> | oops |
| 13:36:26 | <onion> | > let id' (f :: a -> a) (x :: a) = f x :: a in id' id 7 |
| 13:36:27 | <lambdabot> | 7 |
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| 13:36:45 | <onion> | > let id' (f :: a -> a) (x :: Int) = f x :: a in id' succ 7 |
| 13:36:46 | <lambdabot> | 8 |
| 13:36:52 | <onion> | hmm.. |
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| 13:42:19 | <onion> | > let id' (f :: forall a. a -> a) (x :: Int) = f x :: a in id' succ 7 |
| 13:42:20 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 13:42:20 | <lambdabot> | • Couldn't match expected type ‘a2’ with actual type ‘Int’ |
| 13:42:21 | <lambdabot> | ‘a2’ is a rigid type variable bound by |
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| 13:51:48 | <EvanR> | you can use lambdabot in a private message |
| 13:53:32 | <onion> | yes sorry for the noise |
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| 14:15:19 | <kuribas> | You say succ would work with any type, but it doesn't. |
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| 14:16:21 | <kuribas> | First argument of "id'" should be a function that works on any type. |
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| 14:16:54 | <kuribas> | That's what (f :: forall a. a -> a) means |
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| 14:17:20 | <kuribas> | "forall a. " means "for any type a" |
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| 14:19:14 | <gaff> | Is there any difference between writing code in the applicative vs monadic style? For example, `some p = do { x <- p; xs <- many p; return (x:xs) }` VS `some p = (:) <$> p <*> many p`? |
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| 14:21:50 | <EvanR> | not if you enable ApplicativeDo |
| 14:22:15 | <EvanR> | otherwise, one expands to Monad the other Applicative class |
| 14:22:58 | <gaff> | EvanR: I am not sure what you mena there, Both expressions have the same type. |
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| 14:23:25 | <EvanR> | :t return |
| 14:23:25 | <lambdabot> | Monad m => a -> m a |
| 14:23:42 | <kuribas> | gaff: Some type doesn't mean the same expression. |
| 14:23:50 | <kuribas> | :t 3 |
| 14:23:51 | <lambdabot> | Num p => p |
| 14:23:52 | <kuribas> | :t 4 |
| 14:23:53 | <lambdabot> | Num p => p |
| 14:23:53 | <EvanR> | they don't have the same type by default |
| 14:24:23 | <gaff> | well, `some` in that example has the same type in both styles. |
| 14:24:25 | <EvanR> | oh you're right. But yeah |
| 14:24:30 | <kuribas> | gaff: For a lawful instance the should be the same, but it isn't garanteed. |
| 14:24:31 | <EvanR> | different implementations |
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| 14:25:12 | <kuribas> | gaff: the do desugars to: p >>= \x -> many p >>= \xs -> return (x:xs) |
| 14:26:10 | <gaff> | wha I found was that the binding in the `do` block forces an evaluation while in the applicative style it may/does not. I am not sure I am right, though. |
| 14:26:30 | <gaff> | kuribas: I know |
| 14:27:02 | <kuribas> | gaff: not necessarily. It could be a lazy monad. |
| 14:27:05 | <EvanR> | if the general question is, is there any difference between do notation and applicative style, yes they end up going through two different type classes |
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| 14:27:33 | <EvanR> | your code might be an example where they end up doing the same thing, but definitely different in general |
| 14:27:49 | <gaff> | EvanR: I mean from the standpoint of evaluation/laziness. |
| 14:29:45 | <kuribas> | gaff: note that 'x' could be lazy, but it most be "produced" by effect "p", before the lambda can be evaulated, which is not true in the applicated. |
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| 14:30:09 | <gaff> | kuribas: exactly |
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| 14:31:03 | <gaff> | so when `p` fails, for example, the monadic style can short circuit computation where as the applicative style may not. |
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| 14:32:27 | <kuribas> | gaff: it could, it is not "required" to work in "parallel". |
| 14:33:04 | <gaff> | kuribas: I am not sure wht you are saying there. parallel where? |
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| 14:33:51 | <kuribas> | run "p" and "many p" in parallel. |
| 14:34:18 | <gaff> | if `p` fails, the do block will short circuit. |
| 14:34:34 | <gaff> | it is a sequential computation. |
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| 14:35:38 | <kuribas> | yes |
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| 14:38:06 | <gaff> | Hey, thanks a bunch. I didn't fully resolve this here. May be i will come back later and pose the same question again. |
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| 14:52:12 | <onion> | kuribas: i know what forall means, but it should be implicit. i was testing lambdabot to try and understand which extensions were being used |
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| 14:53:40 | <kuribas> | onion: what do you mean "it should be implicit"? |
| 14:54:01 | <kuribas> | RankN types are undecidable. |
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| 17:57:21 | <raehik> | How can I check the transitive dependencies of a Hackage (or local Cabal) package? I'm building an aeson that I don't expect and don't know if it's my Nix setup or an actual dep. |
| 17:58:05 | <raehik> | Oh wait, self-answer. cabal freeze appears to do it! |
| 17:58:19 | <tomsmeding> | raehik: you can also check the contents of dist-newstyle/cache/plan.json |
| 17:58:39 | <raehik> | ooh I've never looked in there. cheers tomsmeding |
| 17:58:48 | <tomsmeding> | the cabal-plan tool has utilities for reading that file, but it's also hand-readable if you run it through a json formatter |
| 17:59:12 | <tomsmeding> | ('cabal-plan dot' gives you a graphviz dot graph of your dep graph) |
| 17:59:27 | <tomsmeding> | (warning: that graph is large) |
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| 18:00:40 | <glguy> | "cabal-plan tred" can be pretty handy |
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| 18:02:47 | <raehik> | super! cabal-plan tred has extremely concise understandable output |
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| 18:11:23 | <monochrom> | I need to write my own json formatter. :) |
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| 18:11:50 | <monochrom> | Actually that's just egotism. I should just use an existing one. |
| 18:13:05 | <monochrom> | (I need a json formatter for all sorts of json-using things, not just cabal's plan file.) |
| 18:13:49 | <EvanR> | the more inconsequential the change to the syntax the more egotism. New programming language < new syntax < new syntax for comments < new whitespace formatting |
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| 18:20:42 | <tomsmeding> | monochrom: why not? |
| 18:21:21 | tomsmeding | just :%!jq .<cr> in vim but that's 1% effort 80% reward |
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| 19:05:44 | <erty> | Has anybody tried running AI code on GPU using Haskell libraries (eg. Accelerate) |
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| 19:05:51 | <erty> | Some time ago I tried to run AI, but can't because of outdated dependencies. I tried to follow the instructions [[here][https://github.com/AccelerateHS/accelerate-llvm]], but was constantly bombarded with erros related to some dependency depending on some outdated dependencies. |
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| 19:06:48 | <erty> | Can somebody link me to some updated haskell project that use AI |
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| 19:11:05 | <tomsmeding> | erty: try putting this in cabal.project https://paste.tomsmeding.com/lzv5ZgHN |
| 19:11:16 | <tomsmeding> | that gives you LLVM 15 support in accelerate |
| 19:11:27 | <tomsmeding> | newer LLVM versions are unfortunately not supported yet |
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| 19:13:19 | <erty> | ok i'll try |
| 19:13:45 | <raehik> | I'm doing some Show-like printing (need context-sensitive brackets) and I'm sad to find no Text replacements for ShowS. Would a Text builder be more performant than the current ShowS one? |
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| 19:14:20 | <raehik> | e.g. class TShow a where tshowsPrec :: Int -> a -> TextBuilder |
| 19:14:27 | tomsmeding | has seen https://hackage.haskell.org/package/text-builder-linear and found it interesting, but not used yet |
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| 19:20:10 | <raehik> | oh excellent good find tomsmeding |
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| 19:25:06 | <raehik> | ahh https://hackage.haskell.org/package/text-show is what I was hoping for! but the linear types builder seems much more performant |
| 19:25:44 | <geekosaur> | yes, I'd expect that |
| 19:25:57 | <Hecate> | raehik: text-display will use the text-builder-linear in the future |
| 19:26:07 | <Hecate> | https://flora.pm/packages/@hackage/text-display |
| 19:26:20 | <geekosaur> | ShowS is an optimization for small particles (individual Chars in a list), Builder is an optimization for building large chunks (Text) |
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| 19:29:35 | <raehik> | geekosaur: I see, ty. it feels bad to use Show when it has to be placed inside a larger string, even if the ShowS bit is small, so I was looking for an excuse to go Text-only |
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| 19:31:49 | <raehik> | Hecate: ty ty! is text-display otherwise similar design to text-show (same builder, similar instances)? |
| 19:34:42 | <raehik> | (that reminds me I still need to shift mt19937 over to the haskell-cryptography org!) |
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| 19:37:13 | <Hecate> | raehik: hmm for base types probaby yes. It gives you more end user-oriented facilities to produce instances however |
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| 19:39:54 | <raehik> | fab. time to spam text-builder-linear every chance I get |
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| 20:11:26 | <raehik> | I want to inspect a TypeRep for pretty printing (without going thru String). But the definition in Data.Typeable.Internal isn't exported. What do I do? Show TypeRep uses it. |
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| 20:19:34 | <tomsmeding> | raehik: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.19.0.0/docs/Data-Typeable.html#v:splitTyConApp gets you very far |
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| 20:21:52 | <raehik> | thanks tomsmeding , that consumes one of the constructors I was curious about |
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| 20:25:24 | <tomsmeding> | raehik: if I look here https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.19.0.0/docs/Type-Reflection.html#g:4 I see a bunch of pattern synonyms |
| 20:26:01 | <tomsmeding> | still doesn't seem like the whole set yet |
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| 20:28:24 | <raehik> | maybe I can do this with generics instead and avoid all this |
| 20:28:56 | <tomsmeding> | typeable always feels like an "I give up" solution to me |
| 20:29:29 | <raehik> | hahaha I've always avoided it in my own code, had a similar feeling |
| 20:29:30 | <tomsmeding> | good luck with generics though, it's possible to get through it but if you haven't touched GHC.Generics before, it can be a bit daunting |
| 20:30:06 | <raehik> | I've love my generics :)) been spamming /r/haskell with them lately |
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| 20:30:17 | <tomsmeding> | in that case, go right out :) |
| 20:33:45 | <monochrom> | But generics examines terms not types... |
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| 20:34:28 | <tomsmeding> | monochrom: examining a TypeRep gives you a value-level witness for a type |
| 20:34:41 | <monochrom> | Although, I have been thinking of how to write a unification algorithm that works for everyone's algebraic data types, and currently I am thinking of generics. |
| 20:34:43 | <tomsmeding> | you can do the same with generics if you specify the subset of types that you want to support |
| 20:34:57 | <monochrom> | Oh, that. :( |
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| 20:35:27 | <tomsmeding> | though I feel that you don't need generics for this |
| 20:35:37 | <tomsmeding> | a simple type class with instances for the shapes you want to support should be enough |
| 20:35:42 | <tomsmeding> | raehik: ^ |
| 20:36:01 | <EvanR> | you mean, don't go through Typeable at all |
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| 20:36:38 | <raehik> | hmm not too sure I can go via Generic any more. don't know how to inspect type args e.g. l and r in `data And l r` |
| 20:36:40 | <tomsmeding> | EvanR: I mean, they were running against TypeRep not being inspectable so they were looking into alternatives |
| 20:37:07 | <EvanR> | basically make your own TypeRep-like thing which can be rendered as Text directly |
| 20:37:25 | <monochrom> | Oh haha here is another idea for my unification plan and it is why "Maybe [T]" can make sense. |
| 20:38:04 | <tomsmeding> | raehik: oh that's right, Generic talks about monomorphic types |
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| 20:40:16 | <monochrom> | The user will provide "E -> E -> Maybe [(E,E)]". Nothing means that the roots mismatch. Just xs means that the roots match, and the list is the list of childrens to check further. |
| 20:40:42 | <tomsmeding> | monochrom: is this for diffing |
| 20:40:51 | <raehik> | tomsmeding: haha rats. perhaps I'm stuck with Typeable if I want to print the TypeRep of a data type |
| 20:40:58 | <monochrom> | Yeah. |
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| 20:41:17 | <tomsmeding> | @hackage hdiff |
| 20:41:17 | <lambdabot> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hdiff |
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| 20:43:13 | <tomsmeding> | (good luck wading through the types there) |
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| 23:56:05 | × | random-jellyfish quits (~developer@2a02:2f01:791c:4a00:678:60fc:12a9:5) (Changing host) |
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All times are in UTC on 2024-05-03.