Logs on 2024-05-20 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 10:40:10 | <lxsameer> | hey folks, I'm looking for an open source grahp database with great support for Haskell, any suggestion? |
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| 11:02:21 | <danse-nr3> | not sure lxsameer but you can look into hackage for graph database clients that seem well-maintained |
| 11:04:20 | <lxsameer> | danse-nr3: cheers |
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| 11:06:22 | <danse-nr3> | v |
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| 12:54:18 | <markasoftware_> | is there a library providing an easy way to get a field of a Data-implementing type with the given type? If all the fields of my type have unique types, it'd be much nicer to be able to say `getField myUser :: EmailAddress` rather than either (a) having to declare it as a proper record with accessors or (b) having to destructure it |
| 12:54:40 | <markasoftware_> | I know IxSet does some similar stuff internally to make `ixGen` work but I'm wondering if there's any simple standalone module for it |
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| 13:04:13 | <dmj`> | markasoftware_: generic-lens has a getTyped accessor (myUser ^. typed @EmailAddress), some limitations though, the types /have/ to be unique. |
| 13:04:30 | <dmj`> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/generic-lens-2.2.2.0/docs/Data-Generics-Product-Typed.html |
| 13:06:51 | <dmj`> | unique within a record |
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| 13:25:20 | <carbolymer> | I have a function executing a callback function endlessly. The callback type should allow stopping of the processing. I'm wondering what's the best way to represent this type? e.g. https://bpa.st/N6HQ |
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| 13:27:38 | <ncf> | myFunction :: [Thing] ? |
| 13:27:54 | <ncf> | or does reading require IO |
| 13:27:59 | <carbolymer> | it does |
| 13:28:28 | <carbolymer> | hmm, maybe [IO Thing] ... |
| 13:29:47 | <carbolymer> | myFunction is polling some data source every 500ms, I guess it could be possible to do `[IO Thing]` ... |
| 13:30:26 | <ncf> | wouldn't all the elements of the list be the same? |
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| 13:33:05 | <carbolymer> | no because those are `IO Thing`, so each element can do whatever IO action it wants |
| 13:33:47 | <ncf> | but in your use case, they're all doing the same polling action, right? |
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| 13:36:39 | <danse-nr3> | :t while |
| 13:36:40 | <lambdabot> | error: Variable not in scope: while |
| 13:36:53 | <danse-nr3> | @hoogle while |
| 13:36:53 | <lambdabot> | Sound.Tidal.UI while :: Pattern Bool -> (Pattern a -> Pattern a) -> Pattern a -> Pattern a |
| 13:36:53 | <lambdabot> | Development.NSIS while :: Exp Bool -> Action () -> Action () |
| 13:36:53 | <lambdabot> | Language.C.Syntax While :: Exp -> Stm -> SrcLoc -> Stm |
| 13:37:05 | <ncf> | if so, you could just have poll :: IO Thing; then, given a callback :: Thing -> IO (Maybe x), you have untilJust (poll >>= callback) :: IO x |
| 13:37:45 | <danse-nr3> | import Control.Monad.Extra |
| 13:37:50 | <danse-nr3> | > import Control.Monad.Extra |
| 13:37:52 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:1: error: parse error on input ‘import’ |
| 13:39:18 | <danse-nr3> | huh i forgot how to use the bots ... |
| 13:39:24 | <danse-nr3> | % import Control.Monad.Extra |
| 13:39:24 | <yahb2> | <no location info>: error: ; Could not find module ‘Control.Monad.Extra’ ; Perhaps you meant ; Control.Monad.Catch (from exceptions-0.10.5) ; Control.Monad.Error (from mtl-2.2.2... |
| 13:39:48 | <ncf> | you can use /query to figure it out |
| 13:41:16 | <danse-nr3> | well i was thinking of something like untilJust anyways |
| 13:57:27 | <carbolymer> | yeah maybe untilJust is a good idea |
| 13:59:29 | <carbolymer> | I'm wondering if there's a datatype in hackage similar to `data Stream m a = StreamT (m a) (m (Stream m a))` |
| 14:00:30 | <carbolymer> | @hoogle StreamT |
| 14:00:30 | <lambdabot> | Streamly type StreamT = SerialT |
| 14:00:30 | <lambdabot> | Streamly.Internal.Data.Stream.Serial type StreamT = SerialT |
| 14:00:30 | <lambdabot> | System.Process.Typed data StreamType |
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| 18:38:35 | <lxsameer> | hey folks, sorry for my uneducated question: would it be possible to use a static c++ library with Haskell instead of FFI? |
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| 18:43:53 | <monochrom> | I don't understand the question, especially "instead". You have to go through FFI. |
| 18:46:48 | <lxsameer> | monochrom: my bad, I want to link the static lib (cpp) in the final binary and don't want to use dl_open or something to that sort |
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| 18:47:40 | <tomsmeding> | interacting with a c++ API is probably a bad idea, with name mangling and so on, but if your c++ library exposes a C interface, then that should be doable via the standard procedures |
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| 18:48:03 | <tomsmeding> | tell cabal to link in extra-libraries |
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| 18:48:23 | <tomsmeding> | and then expose its functions in haskell via the FFI |
| 18:48:31 | <tomsmeding> | ('foreign' declarations) |
| 18:48:57 | <monochrom> | So you are just asking about static linking. I have never needed it, but I heard other people doing it. |
| 18:49:44 | <lxsameer> | tomsmeding: I can do a static C lib instead of cpp. I have control over that |
| 18:50:06 | <lxsameer> | monochrom: yeah I need it to be static |
| 18:50:10 | <tomsmeding> | I mean, it can be implemented in C++ all you like, as long as you put the functions you want to expose in an `extern "C" { }` block |
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| 18:51:47 | <tomsmeding> | though being implemented in c++ means that you'll need to also (dynamically) link against the c++ standard library |
| 18:52:05 | <tomsmeding> | might be as easy as also putting libstdc++ or something similar in extra-libraries |
| 18:52:06 | <lxsameer> | tomsmeding: i statically link against libc++ |
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| 18:52:21 | <tomsmeding> | ... you can do that? |
| 18:52:24 | <lxsameer> | in general I want a static library |
| 18:52:33 | <lxsameer> | oh yeah, libc++ is pretty easy |
| 18:52:39 | <tomsmeding> | I know that glibc categorically disallows that |
| 18:52:39 | <lxsameer> | *static binary |
| 18:52:53 | <tomsmeding> | but maybe libc++ is easier on that |
| 18:52:54 | <lxsameer> | tomsmeding: yeah, i use musl as well |
| 18:52:59 | <tomsmeding> | ah I see |
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| 18:53:21 | <lxsameer> | my aim is to write parts of my application with haskell and parts in C for interfacing with llvm |
| 18:53:24 | <tomsmeding> | lxsameer: this exists https://hasufell.github.io/posts/2024-04-21-static-linking.html |
| 18:53:31 | <lxsameer> | but at the end I need a static executable |
| 18:53:37 | <lxsameer> | oh cool thanks |
| 18:53:47 | <tomsmeding> | says nothing about c++ specifically |
| 18:54:00 | <tomsmeding> | but might contain pointers to stuff you need anyway |
| 18:54:04 | <monochrom> | Someone has to write the extern"C"{...} API, and Haskell FFI can only call the C API. But it can be done. |
| 18:54:13 | <lxsameer> | tomsmeding: cheers, it is definitely useful |
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| 18:55:10 | <lxsameer> | monochrom: awesome |
| 18:55:15 | <sclv> | bytestring is probably the best example of linking c++ and using it, but that might be dynamic. i imagine you can toss the extra libraries into the link path and settings and it should be basically ok, but Extremely not portable for building https://hackage.haskell.org/package/bytestring-0.12.1.0/bytestring.cabal |
| 18:55:51 | <monochrom> | OK, writing your own C API for what's morally C++ is an uphill battle in the worst case. But I'm just a theorist. |
| 18:56:26 | <tomsmeding> | llvm has a C api for some part of its API surface |
| 18:56:42 | <tomsmeding> | sclv: I don't see any c++ in that cabal file, just C? |
| 18:56:57 | <lxsameer> | monochrom: since I'm going to interface llvm, the c api is already there |
| 18:57:10 | <tomsmeding> | lxsameer: be aware that the llvm-hs package exists |
| 18:57:22 | <tomsmeding> | on github there's a branch for llvm 15 |
| 18:57:31 | <lxsameer> | tomsmeding: it's old |
| 18:57:44 | <tomsmeding> | 15 is still old but less old :) |
| 18:58:14 | <lxsameer> | :D indeed, but i might be able to use it as a reference |
| 18:58:17 | <sclv> | whoops i meant text not bytestring https://hackage.haskell.org/package/text-2.1.1/text.cabal |
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| 18:59:05 | <tomsmeding> | ah there's a nice chunk of "let's get the c++ stdlib in there the hard way" code |
| 18:59:19 | <monochrom> | Interesting, simdutf.cpp. Does that mean SIMD? |
| 18:59:42 | <monochrom> | Using SIMD instructions for UTF??? encoding so it is faster? |
| 18:59:51 | <tomsmeding> | yes, vectorised UTF* parsing |
| 19:00:01 | <monochrom> | You people are nuts. >:) |
| 19:00:05 | <sclv> | https://github.com/simdutf/simdutf <-- very fast, very complicated, very c++ |
| 19:00:16 | <tomsmeding> | daniel lemire stuff |
| 19:01:01 | <monochrom> | Next you are going to need a high-end GPU too... |
| 19:01:18 | <monochrom> | if flag(gpuutf) ... |
| 19:01:57 | <tomsmeding> | I feel like the bandwidth of the data connection to a gpu is less than the speed you can get with good simd code for utf parsing |
| 19:02:11 | <Rembane> | I hope someone makes science on this |
| 19:02:32 | <monochrom> | "Hi I have a question. Every time I run a progrma that uses Data.Text, my GPU frame rate drops to 1 FPS. What's going on?" >:) |
| 19:03:30 | <mauke> | there's potential for fusion here |
| 19:03:36 | <monochrom> | "Certain version of GHC crash on Windows, when TemplateHaskell encounters C++." Hahaha template wars. |
| 19:03:55 | <tomsmeding> | haha oh no |
| 19:03:56 | <mauke> | hw accelerated font rendering |
| 19:04:08 | <mauke> | then do your utf8 decoding in the font |
| 19:04:20 | <mauke> | with ligatures of the bytes or something |
| 19:04:21 | <monochrom> | Haha TIL how to say "false" in cabal prolog: build-depends: base < 0 |
| 19:04:34 | <tomsmeding> | don't you have `buildable: False` |
| 19:04:41 | <tomsmeding> | perhaps this cabal file predates that |
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| 19:08:46 | <tomsmeding> | TIL this exists https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/users_guide/exts/assert.html#assertions |
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| 19:10:43 | <tomsmeding> | and it's apparently super old, judging from this comment right above 'assert': https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/libraries/ghc-internal-9.1001.0-be1e/src//GHC.Internal.Base.html#id |
| 19:10:54 | <monochrom> | Yeah GHC offered that when CallStack didn't exist back then. |
| 19:11:16 | <tomsmeding> | it's vert C |
| 19:11:18 | <tomsmeding> | 8very |
| 19:11:21 | <tomsmeding> | *very |
| 19:11:25 | <tomsmeding> | christ, I can't type any more |
| 19:11:39 | <monochrom> | It's clearly inspired by C's assert. :) |
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| 19:49:15 | <justsomeguy> | What's the reccomended editor setup to get autocompletion, in-line docs, and linting? |
| 19:49:39 | <tomsmeding> | probably the lowest-effort option is VSCode with the Haskell plugin |
| 19:50:49 | <tomsmeding> | but because most of the functionality is contained in haskell-language-server, which is an LSP server, any editor that supports LSP will work (to the extent that LSP is supported etc.) |
| 19:53:13 | <justsomeguy> | VSCode works well. I was going to untangle the spaghetti code in my dotfiles to get the LSP working with vim but honestly I don't think it's worth the effort. |
| 19:53:40 | tomsmeding | uses LSP with neovim's builtin LSP support; it works, but there are some rough edges sometimes |
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| 19:57:28 | <justsomeguy> | I should spend a weekend figuring out what an LSP really is and how to set it up properly. |
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| 19:58:57 | <geekosaur> | LSP per se is Language Server Protocol, a standard for language support services to communicate with editors. haskell-language-server is the language server for Haskell |
| 19:59:15 | <geekosaur> | (there being others such as rust-analyzer) |
| 19:59:28 | <tomsmeding> | justsomeguy: when you open a file in a language L in an editor, the editor spins up L's language server and tells it what file it is. Then whenever you make a change, it sends a message to the server describing the change. It then expects all the rest from the server in reply messages: diagnostics, code actions, etc. |
| 19:59:56 | <monochrom> | LSP is the interface between editors and languages. So that if there are M editors and N languages, then there needs only M+N toolings rather than MxN toolings. |
| 20:00:00 | <tomsmeding> | HLS in particular uses ghc as a library internally, hence it's intrinsically bound to a particular ghc version |
| 20:00:30 | <tomsmeding> | look, you don't even have to do research, ask a question and you get answers in triplicate |
| 20:00:38 | <justsomeguy> | :D |
| 20:00:48 | <monochrom> | Recall how previously there were MxN "language plugins/modes". |
| 20:00:53 | <geekosaur> | @quote antiphony |
| 20:00:53 | <lambdabot> | No quotes match. My pet ferret can type better than you! |
| 20:00:56 | <geekosaur> | bah |
| 20:01:05 | <tomsmeding> | @quote fugue |
| 20:01:06 | <lambdabot> | monochrom says: Welcome to #haskell, where your questions are answered in contrapuntal fugues. |
| 20:01:08 | <tomsmeding> | that one? |
| 20:01:10 | <monochrom> | :) |
| 20:01:22 | <geekosaur> | ah yes, it's changed a few times |
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| 20:02:01 | <monochrom> | We have only @remember'ed two, Cale's stereo and my fugue. |
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| 20:02:03 | <darkling> | Just one question: why so simple? :) |
| 20:02:28 | <mauke> | I used to have 1 editor (vim) and N language plugins |
| 20:02:41 | <monochrom> | But antiphony sounds like destructive interference so all answers cancel out so there is silence. >:) |
| 20:03:05 | <mauke> | now I need K hls versions in addition, one for each ghc version |
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| 20:03:12 | <geekosaur> | yeh, it was a sarcastic response to a bunch of answers that contradicted each other some years back |
| 20:03:20 | <monochrom> | Oh haha nice. |
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| 20:03:26 | <geekosaur> | s/response/reaction/ |
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| 20:04:45 | <monochrom> | Well, I may be responsible for part of that. There were a few rare times when other people said "yes" but I said "no". |
| 20:05:01 | <ncf> | @where stereo |
| 20:05:01 | <lambdabot> | I know nothing about stereo. |
| 20:05:10 | <monochrom> | You want: |
| 20:05:13 | <monochrom> | @quote stereo |
| 20:05:13 | <lambdabot> | xplat says: Welcome to #haskell-blah, where your bot commands are executed in triumphant stereo! |
| 20:05:21 | <monochrom> | err there is another one |
| 20:05:24 | <monochrom> | @quote Cale stereo |
| 20:05:24 | <lambdabot> | No quotes match. Do you think like you type? |
| 20:06:14 | <geekosaur> | I am pretty sure that one disappeared years ago, when someone else took over lambdabot from dons but didn't get the databases along with it |
| 20:06:37 | <EvanR> | I remember that one |
| 20:06:38 | <monochrom> | OK I think you can PM lambdabot and keep asking @quote stereo, there are several fun ones. But it looks like Cale's original is lost. |
| 20:07:33 | <monochrom> | It was basically my fugue one with s/contrapunctual fugue/majestic stereo/ |
| 20:08:12 | <tomsmeding> | that sounds familiar to even me |
| 20:08:18 | <tomsmeding> | and I'm young in this channel |
| 20:08:36 | <monochrom> | But I love this one: |
| 20:08:37 | <monochrom> | @quote scrollback.*stereo |
| 20:08:37 | <lambdabot> | hpc says: here in #haskell we are aware that reading scrollback is hard, that's why we always answer in majestic stereo |
| 20:09:41 | <ski> | @quote are.in.majestic |
| 20:09:41 | <lambdabot> | monochrom says: Welcome to #haskell, where @remember's are in majestic stereo! |
| 20:09:49 | <monochrom> | >:) |
| 20:10:01 | <Rembane> | :D |
| 20:11:32 | ski | needs to get something to drink |
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| 20:12:50 | <EvanR> | the power of the dot |
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| 20:15:33 | <ski> | (water) |
| 20:18:14 | <tomsmeding> | @quote are in majestic |
| 20:18:15 | <lambdabot> | No quotes for this person. And you call yourself a Rocket Surgeon! |
| 20:18:24 | <tomsmeding> | oh it's name<space>regex? |
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| 20:19:46 | <ncf> | water is good |
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| 20:22:17 | <monochrom> | Yeah it's regex or name regex |
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| 20:30:43 | darkling | is reminded of a conference tote bag, carried by a colleague in the neuroscience department, which read: "It's not rocket surgery!" |
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| 22:14:32 | <nitrix> | As someone returning to Haskell, what's the state of the ecosystem now? Are projects primarily Cabal or Stack? |
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| 22:15:29 | <geekosaur> | 50-50 |
| 22:15:44 | <geekosaur> | but cabal has been increasing its "market share" of late |
| 22:16:57 | <glguy> | I still check that my projects build in stack but don't use it day to day |
| 22:17:19 | <yin> | yeah. +ghcup -stack |
| 22:17:59 | <yin> | maybe +ghcid depending on how long have you been away |
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| 22:19:04 | <glguy> | I like ghcid during Advent of Code but is easy enough to use these days that I don't bother in general |
| 22:19:10 | <glguy> | but HLS is* |
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| 22:22:09 | <yin> | ghcid --warnings --no-status --run --clear --no-height-limit |
| 22:24:09 | <yin> | for advent of code this is what i do, and i test the sample inputs first |
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