Logs on 2024-05-22 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 08:10:27 | <tomsmeding> | % import Data.Kind |
| 08:10:27 | <yahb2> | <no output> |
| 08:10:32 | <tomsmeding> | % data T = C Type |
| 08:10:32 | <yahb2> | <no output> |
| 08:10:41 | <tomsmeding> | % C _ |
| 08:10:41 | <yahb2> | <interactive>:45:3: error: ; • Found hole: _ :: * ; • In the first argument of ‘C’, namely ‘_’ ; In the expression: C _ ; In an equation for ‘it’: it = C _ ; • Relevant bind... |
| 08:10:47 | <tomsmeding> | why can I do this |
| 08:11:01 | <tomsmeding> | % let wat = C undefined |
| 08:11:01 | <yahb2> | <no output> |
| 08:11:07 | <tomsmeding> | an undefined type? |
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| 08:13:36 | <tomsmeding> | is it even possible to put a non-looping value there |
| 08:13:51 | <tomsmeding> | (absent unsafeCoerce) |
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| 08:31:39 | <Leary> | tomsmeding: TypeInType means the most uniform/regular option is to accept the declaration, even if it doesn't make sense. That said, it might actually, pre TypeData. I've used `newtype Matr = K ((Matr -> Type) -> Type)` before, with DataKinds. |
| 08:32:57 | <tomsmeding> | yes I encountered this in the context of DataKinds, thinking "wait can I just do this without requiring GHC 9.8 and TypeData?" ... "yes?!" |
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| 10:33:07 | <ars23> | Hi! |
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| 10:36:44 | <tomsmeding> | hi :) |
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| 10:38:59 | <mreh> | @paste |
| 10:39:00 | <lambdabot> | A pastebin: https://paste.debian.net/ |
| 10:43:19 | <Leary> | Is there a nice way to get GHC or cabal to dump the topo-sorted list of modules (by path, not name) in the package I'm developing? I realise that `rm -r dist-newstyle; cabal build | ...` could achieve this, but I'd rather not. |
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| 10:44:03 | <mreh> | Any idea why GHC can't decided on the right instance here? https://paste.debian.net/1317735/ It says the instance for V4 a and V4 (V4 a) are overlapping, despite the constraints... |
| 10:44:46 | <tomsmeding> | Leary: `cabal-plan tred`? |
| 10:44:53 | <tomsmeding> | @hackage cabal-plan |
| 10:44:54 | <lambdabot> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/cabal-plan |
| 10:45:06 | <tomsmeding> | oh no that's not what you want |
| 10:45:09 | <tomsmeding> | @hackage graphmod |
| 10:45:09 | <lambdabot> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/graphmod |
| 10:45:12 | <mreh> | thats for deps |
| 10:45:28 | <mreh> | I think |
| 10:45:50 | <tomsmeding> | yes graphmod is for modules, but it gives a graphviz dot file |
| 10:46:06 | <tomsmeding> | mreh: instances are greedily selected on their head (the thing after the class name), ignoring any constraints |
| 10:46:28 | <tomsmeding> | so GHC must decide for a particular type T whether it matches (V4 a), (V4 (V4 a)), (V2 a) or (V3 a) |
| 10:46:38 | <mreh> | tomsmeding: okay, and there's no way to tell it which? |
| 10:46:47 | <tomsmeding> | if T is V4 b for some yet-unknown b, then those two instances are ambiguous |
| 10:46:49 | <mreh> | I guess a type wrapper? |
| 10:47:15 | <tomsmeding> | you can't have an instance for "the other types" |
| 10:47:32 | <tomsmeding> | yes a newtype around V4 (V4 a) could be a solution |
| 10:47:55 | <tomsmeding> | if you can arrange that the "contents" of a vector is always some other type, say Scalar, then you could distinguish between V4 (V4 (Scalar a)) and V4 (Scalar a) |
| 10:47:58 | <tomsmeding> | because Scalar /= V4 |
| 10:48:25 | <Leary> | tomsmeding: Cheers. Not sure how easy it is to parse what I need out of a dot file, but I'll have a look. |
| 10:48:28 | <mreh> | yeah, well I thought the constraint VertexAttributeComponent might do that |
| 10:48:50 | <tomsmeding> | mreh: ghc does not look at the constraints, the result of which is that the instance resolution algorithm never has to backtraeck |
| 10:48:53 | <tomsmeding> | *backtrack |
| 10:48:58 | <mreh> | and GHC would realise that V4 a isn't a VertexAtributeComponent |
| 10:49:07 | <tomsmeding> | someone could add an instance in some other package |
| 10:49:18 | <tomsmeding> | then your instance declarations would suddenly become ambiguous |
| 10:49:26 | <tomsmeding> | haskell is designed to avoid such effects |
| 10:49:29 | <mreh> | ahh |
| 10:49:38 | <tomsmeding> | the intention is that things can only become _more_ defined |
| 10:49:49 | <tomsmeding> | orphan instances break this, which is why ghc warns about them by default |
| 10:50:19 | <tomsmeding> | there is also the OVERLAPPABLE pragma that you can put on an instance, but ghc doesn't guarantee that that will be honoured if I remember correctly |
| 10:50:33 | <tomsmeding> | so if you depend on the correct instance being chosen for correctness, OVERLAPPABLE is not the right way |
| 10:50:58 | <mreh> | It's not a public typeclass so there's little risk of someone implementing it to break things |
| 10:51:14 | <tomsmeding> | right |
| 10:51:15 | <mreh> | but I do need the correct instance to be chosen |
| 10:51:21 | <tomsmeding> | so ghc's restriction is perhaps a bit conservative |
| 10:52:19 | <mreh> | how does it choose when you include the pragma? |
| 10:52:29 | <tomsmeding> | https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/users_guide/exts/instances.html#instance-overlap good luck |
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| 10:54:39 | <tomsmeding> | it may work if both instances are always in scope together |
| 10:54:51 | <tomsmeding> | (putting OVERLAPPABLE on the V4 a instance) |
| 10:55:03 | <mreh> | tomsmeding: okay, that was easy |
| 10:55:11 | <tomsmeding> | but don't quote me on that |
| 10:55:12 | <mreh> | I think I figured it out already |
| 10:55:22 | <mreh> | it's compiling... so I guess it works |
| 10:55:25 | <tomsmeding> | no |
| 10:55:59 | <tomsmeding> | hm wait maybe I can construct a counterexample |
| 10:56:12 | <tomsmeding> | the fact that your instances compile says nothing about whether this trick will work |
| 10:56:17 | <mreh> | instance {-# OVERLAPPABLE #-} (VertexAttributeComponent a, Storable a) => VertexAttribute (V4 a) |
| 10:56:20 | <mreh> | ... |
| 10:56:22 | <mreh> | instance {-# OVERLAPPING #-} (VertexAttributeComponent a, Storable a) => VertexAttribute (V4 (V4 a)) where |
| 10:56:25 | <tomsmeding> | it will work usually |
| 10:56:37 | <tomsmeding> | the question is will GHC _always_ choose the second one if it would apply |
| 10:56:43 | <tomsmeding> | I think there are cases where it won't |
| 10:57:25 | <mreh> | Isn't the second always more specific when resolving the instance for V4 (V4 a)? |
| 10:57:38 | <tomsmeding> | if the type is already monomorphic, yes |
| 10:58:21 | <mreh> | i.e. a is bound to some type? |
| 11:01:38 | <mreh> | I'm actually using that new definition and it's compiling, I can't run it yet because I haven't finished implementing. That instance is an expansion of some code I already wrote to handle vertex attributes that contain vectors, to handle vertex attributes that contain matrices. |
| 11:03:29 | <mreh> | It's supposed to buffer the data into a vertex buffer then create the right number of attributes. The behavious is pretty nasty and implicit and I might be being too clever for my own good... |
| 11:04:15 | <mreh> | (Attributes can't be wider than four C types.) |
| 11:05:07 | <tomsmeding> | okay I thought I could construct a case where the overlapping instance is not honoured using a polymorphic function inside of which the a inside V4 is not yet known |
| 11:05:19 | <tomsmeding> | but I can't get ghc to accept that code |
| 11:05:22 | <tomsmeding> | so maybe it works |
| 11:05:59 | <tomsmeding> | mreh: what if someone writes `newtype Foo a = Foo (V4 a)` |
| 11:06:00 | <mreh> | I don't think I'll need to use it polymorphically. But I'm already starting to regret it despite my cleverness. Anything it's done now. |
| 11:06:12 | <tomsmeding> | can they implement VertexAttributeComponent for that in a way that your plan is foiled |
| 11:06:45 | <mreh> | No, only I can do that, and I don't like to sabotage myself. |
| 11:06:53 | <tomsmeding> | :) |
| 11:07:18 | <tomsmeding> | then it'll probably work, but again, I'm not responsible for catastrophic failures if it ends up not working :) |
| 11:07:21 | <mreh> | ;) |
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| 12:32:28 | <Athas> | I'm seeing some very troubling linker errors when compiling my Haskell program via nix. The full log is at https://gist.github.com/athas/23721393788eb074c102cb95bcfa4e46 (interesting stuff at the bottom), but the errors are things like |
| 12:32:28 | <Athas> | /nix/store/r20kl3djvc3r5w5a0gwy4d896mn6b22a-elfutils-0.191/lib/libdw.a(dwfl_end.o):function dwfl_end:(.text+0x7b): error: undefined reference to 'elf_end' |
| 12:32:28 | <Athas> | I don't actually know if this is even Haskell specific, but I have a hunch that it has something to do with the fact that I'm building a static binary. |
| 12:32:34 | <Athas> | Has anyone here ever seen something similar? |
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| 12:33:44 | <Athas> | This is with GHC 9.6.5. |
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| 15:39:16 | <Athas> | How do I get GHC to not link against libdw? |
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| 15:46:40 | <Hecate> | Athas: I don't know if you can control it :( Read https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/dwarf and open a ticket to describe your usecase |
| 15:46:51 | <geekosaur> | install a ghc without DWARF support, otherwise the RTS requires libdw |
| 15:47:20 | <geekosaur> | DWARF isn't the default with ghcup at leastt, and on downloads.haskell.org it's a separate bindist |
| 15:47:47 | <geekosaur> | hilfy «xmonad-contrib*debugEvents-fixes-2» ⁅xmonad-contrib⁆ Z$ ghc --info | grep libdw |
| 15:47:48 | <geekosaur> | ,("RTS expects libdw","NO") |
| 15:47:52 | <Athas> | Too bad. It's breaking my static builds. Maybe Nix allows me to switch it off. |
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| 15:52:03 | <Hecate> | Athas: wait, how are you getting GHC? |
| 15:53:21 | <Athas> | From Nix. |
| 15:53:50 | <Athas> | Looks like NixOS changed how it configures GHC between 9.4 and 9.6. Now the RTS expects libdw. |
| 15:55:38 | <raehik> | is there a way for me to use a previously matched `g ~ BigLongType a b c` constraint in an associated type synonym? https://paste.tomsmeding.com/GTjBqqpl |
| 15:57:02 | <raehik> | It seems that dealing in promoted tuples is a pain, because in order to unwrap them we have to use type families, so they can't be used in associated type families (which are apparently "associated type synonym families") |
| 15:57:53 | <raehik> | so I have to write an extra layer that has unwrapped my tuple. but then I can't use my "binder" constraints in the type synonyms anyway, only class functions :'( |
| 16:00:40 | <raehik> | maybe if I defunctionalize again I can do what I want :(( |
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| 16:10:01 | <tomsmeding> | raehik: but since `p ~ Parser pCh pEnd sInit`, you can just use the expanded definition, right? |
| 16:10:18 | <tomsmeding> | which you did |
| 16:10:44 | <tomsmeding> | an associated type family is mostly just a type family |
| 16:11:00 | <tomsmeding> | and if you wrote `type instance PS (Isolate' n pCh pEnd sInit) = SIsolateS p` then `p` would be out of scope |
| 16:11:39 | <raehik> | tomsmeding: Yeah I'm sad because I have to expand out where I don't want to |
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| 17:07:50 | <Athas> | Building statically linked Haskell binaries with Nix seems to have become more difficult (again), but I managed to get it to work. |
| 17:09:29 | <sm> | it's like bitcoin.. difficulty must increase to maintain equilibrium |
| 17:09:49 | <Athas> | Proof-of-build. |
| 17:10:25 | <Athas> | Maybe to maintain the difficulty, I should document my solution on my Gopher log, rather than my WWW blog. |
| 17:10:52 | <sm> | yes that would be acceptable :) |
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| 17:19:43 | <monochrom> | Wait, how could it become more difficult? Did nix change? |
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| 17:23:05 | <Athas> | monochrom: yes. |
| 17:23:11 | <monochrom> | :( |
| 17:23:28 | <Athas> | I mean, I am the one who asked it to change. |
| 17:24:41 | <Athas> | Wrote a note on it: https://sigkill.dk/blog/2024-05-22-static-linking-on-nix-with-ghc96.html |
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| 18:53:02 | <yin> | why is the links menu item missing a slash on that site? |
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| 19:07:06 | <lxsameer> | hey folks, how do you get more info on error numbers like [GHC-88646] ? |
| 19:08:29 | <monochrom> | I think there is a website documenting them. I forgot where. |
| 19:08:51 | <mauke> | https://errors.haskell.org/ |
| 19:08:58 | <lxsameer> | cheers |
| 19:10:12 | <mauke> | @where errors |
| 19:10:13 | <lambdabot> | https://errors.haskell.org the Haskell Error Index |
| 19:10:19 | <mauke> | nice |
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| 19:29:10 | <Athas> | yin: it's a file, not a directory. |
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| 19:42:06 | <sm> | @where errors <- if you forget |
| 19:42:06 | <lambdabot> | https://errors.haskell.org the Haskell Error Index |
| 19:42:29 | <sm> | rather often I find the error isn't yet documented there, unfortunately |
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| 19:58:59 | <tomsmeding> | I think I recall that one is not really suppose to use TH to find out whether Int corresponds to Int32 or to Int64 |
| 19:59:03 | <tomsmeding> | *supposed |
| 19:59:11 | <tomsmeding> | but what _is_ one supposed to do? |
| 19:59:38 | <tomsmeding> | (the reason for not using TH being that TH gives the answer that corresponds to the _build_ architecture, not the target architecture) |
| 19:59:55 | <tomsmeding> | or is this sufficiently entrenched that one can just rely on the fact that TH runs on the target architecture? |
| 20:01:57 | <geekosaur> | Data.Bits.bitSize? Or even maxBound? |
| 20:02:06 | <tomsmeding> | I'd like to know this at compile time |
| 20:02:26 | <tomsmeding> | (I have instances for a class for Int32 and Int64, and I want to implement the one for Int in terms of one of the two) |
| 20:02:48 | <tomsmeding> | (without runtime branching, because that ought to be unnecessary) |
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| 20:03:55 | <mauke> | hardcode Int64 and drop support for 32-bit systems |
| 20:04:20 | <tomsmeding> | :p |
| 20:06:33 | <mauke> | ... is there a cabal flag for this? |
| 20:06:38 | <mauke> | or preprocessor symbol |
| 20:07:03 | <tomsmeding> | apparently ghcjs was (is?) 32-bit? |
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| 20:07:27 | <mauke> | that makes sense, unfortunately |
| 20:08:01 | <tomsmeding> | not that I expect this code to run in ghcjs, but why limit targets for dumb reasons like this |
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| 20:38:49 | <lxsameer> | what prelude lib do you recommend? relude? |
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| 20:44:21 | <yushyin> | i like, none, your own (project specific), base-prelude |
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| 20:46:23 | <lxsameer> | yushyin: cheers |
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All times are in UTC on 2024-05-22.