Logs on 2024-05-24 (liberachat/#haskell)
| 00:06:03 | <raehik> | glguy: Thanks for those. ReadP is more complex than I thought, 5 different result constructors |
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| 00:06:48 | <raehik> | yoctoparsec is a bit too abstract for me to consider how it would look type-level |
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| 00:09:14 | <glguy> | If you're ready to do type-level parser combinators at the type-level, you're ready to inline some type definitions to see what a simple case of yoctoparsec expands to |
| 00:09:42 | <glguy> | (too many uses of type-level in that first fragment) |
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| 00:10:58 | <glguy> | You could rip out ReadP's biased choice operator, which would make the whole thing simpler to implement; kind of depends on what you're trying to do |
| 00:11:52 | <glguy> | I did a version of ReadP a while back that had a nicer treatment of <++ that I think ReadP has https://github.com/glguy/breadth-first-parser-combinators/tree/master |
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| 00:22:15 | <raehik> | glguy: true enough on yoctoparsec. I am lazy and was looking for concrete [Char] parsers |
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| 00:23:44 | <raehik> | I'm trying to design a nice simple type-level parser combinator lib. I think I want simple parsers to be very boring, and complex ones (like decision) I don't mind being slow |
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| 00:28:49 | <raehik> | to be clear this already all exists I'm just reconsidering things https://github.com/raehik/symparsec |
| 00:29:37 | <raehik> | set on this design with a small tweak to improve singling parser |
| 00:29:46 | <raehik> | singling parsers* |
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| 04:08:16 | <Perl_Lang> | why nobody use me? :( |
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| 04:10:40 | <monochrom> | I think a lot of people use you, just not in this channel. |
| 04:11:41 | <Perl_Lang> | but nobody likes perl :'( |
| 04:11:59 | <monochrom> | Oh that's a tall order. |
| 04:12:09 | <monochrom> | Most programmers hate their jobs. |
| 04:13:40 | <Perl_Lang> | be an inde developer and retire if you hate it tham much |
| 04:14:20 | <monochrom> | Oh people hate not making enough money before retirement, too. |
| 04:14:31 | <monochrom> | Yes the human condition is completely broken. |
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| 04:17:50 | <Perl_Lang> | ever tried to use a block api like google blockly to simplify your development? |
| 04:19:08 | <glguy> | simplify how? the first example on https://developers.google.com/blockly is how much more complicated it is than the text version |
| 04:19:46 | <monochrom> | Perhaps s/simplify/glorify/ |
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| 04:20:15 | <glguy> | if it's on JavaScript by default you can further improve the example by switching it to Lua |
| 04:20:30 | <Perl_Lang> | the library where you can configure the blocks, not the test site |
| 04:22:27 | <monochrom> | I'm OK with positioning blocky as an education medium. |
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| 04:24:08 | <glguy> | My experience with a blocky programming language was the kids immediately asking me how to do stuff that the blocks made hard that would have been possible with a simpler language |
| 04:25:00 | <monochrom> | Yeah I would be less skeptical if the blocks stood for, say, FP constructs not imperative constructs. We already know that imperative programming doesn't work. |
| 04:26:42 | <monochrom> | But given that someone still has to learn imperative programming and then do it for jobs because the world is broken, an education medium for learning it is much appreciated. |
| 04:28:56 | <probie> | At the end of the day, _someone_ is always going to have to learn imperative programming, if only for doing codegen in the compiler (at least until our CPUs look very different) |
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| 04:36:12 | <monochrom> | For now I just have the dilemma of whether to inflict record sytnax on my students. :) |
| 04:37:17 | <monochrom> | I am going to give them AVL tree insert and rebalancing as homework. It's much nicer with record syntax. But I don't want to teach them record syntax. :) |
| 04:41:26 | <c_wraith> | just teach them lenses |
| 04:41:49 | <monochrom> | :( >D |
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| 06:32:46 | <Axman6> | I remember there being a really nice way to express AVL(I think) tree rotations with a single function which took four arguments, and depending on which invariant you were fixing would determine which four arguments it needed... I wonder if I can find that again |
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| 06:46:24 | <Axman6> | maybe it was red-black trees. Either way, I can't find it :'( |
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| 06:48:39 | <opqdonut> | this? https://www.cs.tufts.edu/comp/150FP/archive/chris-okasaki/redblack99.pdf |
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| 06:59:50 | <Axman6> | Hmm, looks close, but I don't remember there being any use of or-patterns. But maybe I am just remembering `balance` on page 4 |
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| 07:02:46 | <[exa]> | Axman6: left leaning red black trees? |
| 07:04:11 | <[exa]> | Anyway, I just spotted this here with "relative monads", apparently a little more general than arrows and seems to me very interpreter-related: https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-642-12032-9_21 |
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| 07:04:47 | <[exa]> | does anyone know if there are haskell libraries/examples of this kind of relative monads? |
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| 07:53:38 | <lortabac> | Is there a way to ask GHC how a particular instance is satisfied? Ideally I would like to have a -ddump-instance-resolution option, or -- even better -- a GHCI command that allows to query a specific instance. Since AFAIK GHC doesn't have these features, is there a trick/workaround to get at least some info? |
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| 08:06:50 | <danse-nr3> | sometimes i follow the #source links for instances in haddock, not sure whether that helps |
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| 08:12:04 | <danse-nr3> | (i have local hoogle and local haddock for the project i am working on. Can do without HLS but this is really helpful) |
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| 08:22:17 | <kuribas> | I have used "set manager (Left $ defaultManagerSettings {managerModifyRequest = \req -> pure $ req { shouldStripHeaderOnRedirect = const True}})" in wreq, but it's still sending the bearer token in the redirect. |
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| 09:00:04 | <lortabac> | danse-nr3: in this case the resolution is a little complex, so some help from the compiler would appreciated |
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| 09:52:08 | <chiselfuse> | i want to make a real time 3d physics simulator and i like haskell. is there anything library i can use to do this? |
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| 09:53:00 | <chiselfuse> | the simulations would consist mostly of 3d objects and vector fields and lines and colors |
| 09:55:04 | <kuribas> | chiselfuse: to do what? To render? |
| 09:56:39 | <chiselfuse> | kuribas: i'm not sure what you mean but i want to do rougly what you can do with libglut (draw spheres, do matrix transformations and pan and zoom around with a mouse interactively) |
| 09:58:52 | <kuribas> | chiselfuse: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/GLUT ? |
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| 10:00:32 | <chiselfuse> | i'm not sure how it works, i'll try this and see |
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| 10:08:24 | <kuribas> | chiselfuse: I think it's just low level bindings to glut? |
| 10:08:40 | <kuribas> | idk, I never used it. |
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| 10:16:50 | <alethkit> | Does anyone happen to know who wrote the comment on https://wiki.haskell.org/Combinatory_logic#Illative_combinatory_logic? I wonder if they ever got anywhere with it. |
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| 12:29:03 | <Odys> | Hi ! I'm a new beginner in Haskell - and I often face that type of error message when compiling an hs file to test my code : nteract.hs:5:1: error: |
| 12:29:04 | <Odys> | Could not load module `System.Directory' |
| 12:29:04 | <Odys> | It is a member of the hidden package `directory-1.3.7.1'. |
| 12:29:05 | <Odys> | You can run `:set -package directory' to expose it. |
| 12:29:05 | <Odys> | (Note: this unloads all the modules in the current scope.) |
| 12:29:06 | <Odys> | Use -v (or `:set -v` in ghci) to see a list of the files searched for. |
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| 12:30:03 | <Odys> | I tried various way to solve this with ghc-pkg command line but I still face that error |
| 12:30:36 | <Odys> | Some advice to handle correctly that kind a issue? |
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| 19:47:48 | <ph88> | can anyone shed some light on this type error i'm getting? https://play.haskell.org/saved/PXbKLQAK |
| 19:55:01 | <Leary> | ph88: The signature of `getDataID` does not mention `c` anywhere, so how is GHC supposed to infer what instance you want when you use it? GHC is warning you in advance that it can't. |
| 19:56:47 | <Leary> | Options, from best to worst: move it into a superclass; take a `proxy c` argument; enable AllowAmbiguousTypes and use TypeApplications. |
| 19:58:15 | <ph88> | what's a superclass ? |
| 19:58:53 | <ph88> | i will search for it |
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| 20:01:18 | <ph88> | hmm not sure about superclass https://play.haskell.org/saved/cogMGbIx how can i pass in c ? |
| 20:04:29 | <Leary> | If `c` doesn't need to be part of the instance head, you may want to place the constraint `c a` on `getDependencies`. |
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| 20:20:18 | <ph88> | Leary, how can i fill in in the c in that case? https://play.haskell.org/saved/bVH6p5Og |
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| 20:40:10 | <lxsameer> | what haskell code formatter do the cool kids use? |
| 20:40:18 | <Leary> | ph88: Honestly I think we're too deep into XY land for that question to have a good answer, but I suppose you might want something like this: https://play.haskell.org/saved/6CcKSbsJ |
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| 20:41:24 | <Leary> | lxsameer: We use our own aesthetics. |
| 20:44:46 | <monochrom> | When in emacs haskell-mode I already format my code with its help at writing time. |
| 20:45:14 | <monochrom> | "well-formatted by construction" |
| 20:46:05 | <sm> | lxsameer: this kid just uses VS Code's tab/shift tab |
| 20:46:06 | <lxsameer> | monochrom: so stylish-haskell then? |
| 20:46:15 | <lxsameer> | thanks folks |
| 20:46:22 | <monochrom> | Never heard of that. |
| 20:47:41 | <lxsameer> | monochrom: that's what haskell-mode uses, you need to enable it though |
| 20:48:00 | <EvanR> | lxsameer, there's https://ormolu-live.tweag.io/ |
| 20:48:00 | <monochrom> | Like, someone is going to ask "hey which service do you cool kids use to build websites? wordpress? square space?" and I will be like "I write html and css myself". |
| 20:48:08 | <monochrom> | I didn't enable it. |
| 20:48:25 | <monochrom> | I just press tab to cycle through candidate indentation points. |
| 20:48:53 | <EvanR> | all auto formatters are guaranteed to offend your sensibilities, or your money back |
| 20:49:10 | <monochrom> | OK these days I write markdown then run pandoc. But I still don't even believe in wordpress or square space or whatever. |
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| 20:49:58 | <lxsameer> | I like to have code formatters, it's one less thing to be worried about |
| 20:50:20 | <lxsameer> | and it a team, it reduces unnecessary friction on PRs :D |
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| 20:50:54 | <EvanR> | creates unnecessary friction when the autoformatter does something objectively wrong?! |
| 20:52:12 | <monochrom> | There is somewhere a theorem that says that for Haskell if you don't have correct indentation in the first place then no formatter can correct it. |
| 20:52:25 | <lxsameer> | EvanR: if it does something objectively wrong, then its a tooling problem |
| 20:52:31 | <monochrom> | So unlike C and PHP, code formatter for Haskell has less value. |
| 20:52:38 | <ski> | and people have differing opinions on style, and it's not obvious that there's always one best/preferred option |
| 20:52:53 | <lxsameer> | monochrom: interesting. that makes sense |
| 20:53:03 | <ski> | (sometimes my opinion in one situation differs from my opinion in another circumstance) |
| 20:53:33 | <monochrom> | You can still keep your "so the whole team stays consistent". |
| 20:54:09 | <monochrom> | But it is NOT one fewer thing to worry about. You still worry about manually indenting correctly somehow. |
| 20:54:47 | <monochrom> | Haskell code formatter can only do trivial things like "change 2 spaces to 3.1415 spaces". It can't fix your mistakes. |
| 20:54:55 | <lxsameer> | that's true in Haskell though |
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| 20:56:45 | <lxsameer> | anyway, thanks for sharing your experience folks |
| 20:57:38 | ski | tends to err on the side of encouraging personal judgement and taste (informed by relevant concerns and common alternatives considered by people) |
| 20:58:33 | <EvanR> | since we're not using valuable brain cycles juggling dynamic types in our heads, we can use them for important stuff like judgement and taste in formatting the code! |
| 20:58:47 | <monochrom> | But I follow most of this style guide, and share with my students: https://github.com/tibbe/haskell-style-guide/blob/master/haskell-style.md |
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| 20:59:18 | <monochrom> | OTOH most of my students just use vscode and its haskell plugin, which probably already does its own thing about format. |
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| 20:59:46 | <ski> | yea, that's a nice one |
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| 21:27:45 | <ph88> | Leary, thanks ! |
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| 21:30:25 | <ph88> | Leary, why did you make it cs:cs ? |
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| 21:31:40 | <Leary> | That's `(HasDataID cs):cs`. |
| 21:32:14 | <ph88> | ah ok |
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