Logs on 2024-05-31 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 06:14:01 | <mjrosenb> | has anyone gotten the new-fangled js backend working on nix? |
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| 06:20:35 | <mjrosenb> | I'm not that familar with nix, and the instructions on https://github.com/alpmestan/ghc.nix are failing. it is saying that nix-shell requires a single derivation. |
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| 06:49:19 | <cheater> | hello |
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| 07:01:12 | <dminuoso> | 13:23:23 __monty__ │ The problem is the rendering of the error message really, "<path>: No such file," is rather misleading. The shell could at least check whether <path> is an ELF and then add the "or missing ELF interpreter." |
| 07:01:20 | <dminuoso> | Ah, they left. Nevermind. |
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| 07:01:55 | <tomsmeding> | that error has confused many a student |
| 07:02:06 | <tomsmeding> | and non-student |
| 07:02:26 | <dminuoso> | Well, I kind of wish smartfilter was smart enough to know that I talked to them and would print a subsequent leave message. |
| 07:02:33 | <dminuoso> | Even if they left an hour later. |
| 07:03:02 | <tomsmeding> | tab-completing the nick is my typical trick |
| 07:03:02 | <dminuoso> | Similar to how it displays join messages if they joined and immediately asked a question afterwards |
| 07:03:15 | <dminuoso> | My flow demands that I paste first, tab complete later :P |
| 07:03:57 | <dminuoso> | I cant imagine that there are people who are not connected to an IRC server 24/7. |
| 07:04:18 | <tomsmeding> | imagine people connecting to irc from emacs |
| 07:04:21 | <dminuoso> | Though, at work, we actually do have customers that turn off their routers during the night very consistently. |
| 07:04:32 | <dminuoso> | Most of them are elderly |
| 07:04:44 | <dminuoso> | Oh I can definitely imagine people connecting to IRC from emacs. |
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| 07:13:29 | haskellbridge | sm turns off his router at night |
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| 07:14:35 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> and used to connect to IRC from emacs (a 24/7 emacs) |
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| 09:42:45 | <kuribas> | Are there languages besides twelf that use GADTs as horn clauses for a logic system? |
| 09:42:52 | <kuribas> | Or just any dependently typed logic system? |
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| 09:43:47 | <sprout> | prolog? |
| 09:44:20 | <sprout> | I think they claim prolog uses horn clauses but that strikes me as a bit loose reasoning |
| 09:44:22 | <sprout> | unsure |
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| 09:47:02 | <kuribas> | prolog doesn't have GADTs |
| 09:47:07 | <kuribas> | it doesn't even have static types. |
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| 09:51:21 | <dminuoso> | If in module X I have TemplateHaskellQuotes turned on, and there is an identifier `foo` in scope, and I just use it in some `varE 'foo ...` - how will this work exactly with regards to linking? |
| 09:51:41 | <dminuoso> | Assuming I splice that in some other module. |
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| 09:57:27 | <tomsmeding> | that 'foo is a Name |
| 09:58:07 | <tomsmeding> | and that name will then probably be a NameG, which is a fully qualified package-module name |
| 09:58:54 | <tomsmeding> | I guess the linking will happen when it is interpreted at splice time, when GHC will have to resolve that name |
| 09:59:17 | <tomsmeding> | there's nothing fancy in a Name, it's just a data structure, so the magic is not there |
| 10:00:01 | <tomsmeding> | dminuoso: ^ |
| 10:01:43 | <tomsmeding> | mind that Name has a custom Show instance that obscures some details of representation |
| 10:02:15 | <tomsmeding> | but its consituents, OccName and NameFlavour, have derived Show instances |
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| 11:22:20 | <lxsameer> | hey folks, do you have a real example project of using ReaderT to pass down a configuration to a pipeline of functions? A non-web example would be even better |
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| 11:31:07 | <Leary> | lxsameer: throw a dart at hackage |
| 11:31:38 | <Leary> | Or just check out xmonad, I guess. |
| 11:31:42 | <Leary> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/xmonad-0.18.0/docs/XMonad-Core.html#t:X |
| 11:34:45 | <lxsameer> | Leary: cheers |
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| 11:54:05 | <lxsameer> | In this https://hackage.haskell.org/package/xmonad-0.18.0/docs/src/XMonad.Core.html#X how does `ask` knows that it needs to retun the XConf is the `job` param and not `errcase`? |
| 11:54:22 | <lxsameer> | both are `X a` |
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| 11:56:06 | <ncf> | you mean in catchX? that `ask` is not using `job` or `errcase` at all |
| 11:57:44 | <lxsameer> | ncf: hmmm, i don't get it then. based on the source code of readerT. ask returns `ReaderT return` |
| 11:58:10 | <ncf> | the ask used there is ask :: MonadReader r m => m r |
| 11:58:12 | <lxsameer> | how does that translates to XConf here |
| 11:58:27 | <ncf> | so in this case ask :: X XConf |
| 11:58:33 | <ncf> | since you have MonadReader XConf X |
| 11:58:37 | <lxsameer> | and where does the value of XConf resolved here |
| 11:58:59 | <ncf> | ...at runtime, when you actually run the X action |
| 11:59:08 | <ncf> | see runReaderT |
| 11:59:11 | <lxsameer> | ncf: is it because of an specialization ? I mean X XConf |
| 12:00:00 | <ncf> | (well, runX) |
| 12:00:31 | <ncf> | lxsameer: ask is used in an X computation so m gets resolved to X, and it returns an XConf so r gets resolved to XConf |
| 12:00:32 | <lxsameer> | ncf: I read runReaderT. The c <- ask runs before the runX in this example, am i correct? |
| 12:01:05 | <ncf> | i am not sure what you mean by that |
| 12:02:24 | <lxsameer> | ncf: I guess I'm confused with the order here |
| 12:02:30 | <lxsameer> | execution order i mean |
| 12:02:46 | <ncf> | oh, there's a runX on the next line. ignore that, that's irreleveant |
| 12:02:47 | <Leary> | The `runX` in `catchX` is an inner, nested call; it's irrelevant. The greater X action is executed by some outer `runX` that supplies the `XConf` argument. |
| 12:02:47 | <lxsameer> | I don't understand how `c` can have a value here |
| 12:02:51 | <ncf> | or irrelevant |
| 12:03:11 | <ncf> | lxsameer: think about IO; if i write `do c <- getChar; print c`, what value does c have? |
| 12:03:28 | <lxsameer> | ther result of getChar action |
| 12:03:34 | <ncf> | right |
| 12:03:48 | <ncf> | so in the same way, the value of c here is the result of the "ask" action |
| 12:04:11 | <ncf> | this is only determined when you actually run the catchX call, so when you call runX on some action that uses catchX |
| 12:04:34 | <lxsameer> | ncf: i understand that part but |
| 12:04:49 | <lxsameer> | getChar reads from stdin for example |
| 12:05:01 | <lxsameer> | but where does ask takes the value from? |
| 12:05:25 | <ncf> | the environment provided to runX |
| 12:05:44 | <lxsameer> | runX in the catchX? |
| 12:05:47 | <ncf> | no! |
| 12:06:08 | <lxsameer> | ahhhhhh |
| 12:06:15 | <lxsameer> | so that's why I'm confused then |
| 12:07:28 | <ncf> | maybe it would help to think about the native reader monad, ((->) XConf) |
| 12:08:01 | <ncf> | this is a monad that describes computations that *depend* on a global environment value of type XConf, i.e. aren't fully determined until you give them an XConf |
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| 12:08:27 | <ncf> | return :: a -> XConf -> a is just the `const` function that ignores the XConf argument |
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| 12:09:06 | <ncf> | (>>=) :: (XConf -> a) -> (a -> XConf -> b) -> XConf -> b chains computations together by duplicating the environment |
| 12:09:25 | <ncf> | ask :: XConf -> XConf is just the identity function |
| 12:10:35 | <ncf> | so, if i write something like `m = (do c <- ask; return c) :: XConf -> XConf`, i am describing a computation that takes an XConf and just returns it unchanged |
| 12:11:03 | <ncf> | the actual value of c isn't determined until i actually run m by applying it to an XConf |
| 12:11:30 | <ncf> | runX is just doing this with a few newtype wrappers in between (and more monads in the stack) |
| 12:11:40 | <lxsameer> | and the compiler would know what implementation of `ask` to use because `m :: XConf` right? |
| 12:12:02 | <ncf> | m :: ((->) XConf) XConf |
| 12:12:13 | <lxsameer> | ah got it |
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| 12:12:22 | <lxsameer> | I think I got it :P |
| 12:12:29 | <lxsameer> | I have to read it more |
| 12:12:39 | <lxsameer> | thanks for you time and clarifications |
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| 12:21:37 | <sshine> | lxsameer, https://play.haskell.org/saved/nnUbuaAA -- I don't know if this is a good example. |
| 12:39:46 | <lxsameer> | sshine: thank you |
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| 13:00:53 | <sshine> | lxsameer, https://play.haskell.org/saved/zpN4C4Zk -- I made two more examples, one more that uses mtl Reader, and another that defines a custom Reader that doesn't parameterise the 'r' argument and is explicit about what's going on. |
| 13:01:11 | <sshine> | lxsameer, you wouldn't do the last thing unless you're following some course that asks you to reconstruct monads from the bottom up to get a better understanding. |
| 13:02:01 | <sshine> | lxsameer, a bit of the point is lost when FibReader is so specialized towards the function it runs over, since it's not reusable in other monadic contexts. |
| 13:03:13 | <sshine> | also, I apologize for the mixture of camelCase and snake_case :-D I didn't write Haskell for a long time and my brain apparently defaults to snake_case now. |
| 13:03:15 | <lxsameer> | Thank you |
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| 13:45:10 | <dminuoso> | tomsmeding: Oh Im just pondering how this is resolved at all, since you can refer to not exported identifiers, but they appear to be linkable somehow anyway. |
| 13:45:30 | <dminuoso> | TH and linkage seems... fun. |
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| 15:57:01 | <Guest184> | a |
| 15:57:29 | <geekosaur> | b |
| 15:58:15 | <sprout> | c |
| 15:59:04 | <EvanR> | dbca |
| 15:59:57 | <raehik> | > ['a'..'d'] |
| 15:59:59 | <lambdabot> | "abcd" |
| 16:00:03 | <EvanR> | dyslexia ruined it |
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| 16:07:12 | <lxsameer> | ncf: since you're nice to help me, could you please have a look at this. https://play.haskell.org/saved/3LJ34iTG |
| 16:07:16 | <lxsameer> | does it make sense |
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| 16:09:43 | <EvanR> | you might also like: |
| 16:09:44 | <EvanR> | :t asks |
| 16:09:46 | <lambdabot> | MonadReader r m => (r -> a) -> m a |
| 16:10:06 | <EvanR> | e.g. asks getCounter |
| 16:11:07 | <lxsameer> | ah instead of ask in the f4 to grab the counter directly. right? |
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| 16:11:44 | <EvanR> | when the environment is a dumb record of stuff it saves a step |
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| 16:12:24 | <EvanR> | or even if the environment is not a literal record but comes with a set of views |
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| 16:13:08 | <lxsameer> | EvanR: ahhh got it, thank you |
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| 16:26:37 | <lxsameer> | EvanR: is there any better option than using the Environment class here? what about the Lens library? |
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| 16:33:46 | <EvanR> | I'm not sure what you are accomplishing with that class in the first place, it is sort of acting like your record is... a record which it already is |
| 16:34:01 | <EvanR> | a way to rename the fields? |
| 16:34:22 | <EvanR> | you could just make a function which accesses the field in the record if you want a different name |
| 16:34:34 | <EvanR> | fcustom = field1 |
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| 16:35:41 | <andrewboltachev> | Hello. I'm trying to use a Haskell project of mine to handle some decently big amount of data (source code tree). The program either hangs or runs very slowly at cretain point. I was trying very different example, but it seems that when pieces of data become reasonably small it work fine. So there's (likely) no endless resursion going on. I've looked at htop program and have strong impression that might be a limit of 3.5Gb memory usage. |
| 16:35:41 | <andrewboltachev> | I run "stack ghci" and then "main" (or other function) there. Can that be true? |
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| 16:37:28 | <lxsameer> | EvanR: my aim was to replace Env in my test env with a mock |
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| 16:40:34 | <Leary> | andrewboltachev: I don't know about memory limits, but code interpreted by ghci isn't optimised. If you actually compile the code with -O and run the binary, it should execute many times faster and will likely use less memory too. |
| 16:42:35 | <andrewboltachev> | @Leary thanks. Will try |
| 16:42:35 | <lambdabot> | https://wiki.haskell.org/Learning_Haskell |
| 16:42:38 | <geekosaur> | although your problem sounds more like it's reprocessing stuff, which may mean you have code that's being interpreted as functions |
| 16:42:59 | <geekosaur> | that is, they appear to have data dependencies that might not exist, leading to excessive recomputation? |
| 16:44:09 | <geekosaur> | that, or you're just very unoptimized |
| 16:44:19 | <geekosaur> | which is likely if you're running it in ghci |
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| 16:47:50 | <andrewboltachev> | @geekosaur: yes. might be! I have a tree-like data structure. When I have array of 16 (big) items, and process one by one, it handles very quickly. But 16 items together in an array, and wrapped in another thing (I use Vector) just hangs |
| 16:47:50 | <lambdabot> | Unknown command, try @list |
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| 16:48:24 | <andrewboltachev> | wow I don't have to use '@' sorry |
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| 16:49:04 | <geekosaur> | algorithm also matters, if you've accidentally done something like Ackermann it'll really suck with large inputs |
| 16:49:21 | <geekosaur> | although exponential is more common |
| 16:50:15 | <andrewboltachev> | Is using StateT/ReaderT fast? Or that's not how people handle that |
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| 16:50:53 | <geekosaur> | it's usually optimized away since they're very simple wrappers |
| 16:51:22 | <andrewboltachev> | aha |
| 16:55:32 | <geekosaur> | StateT is (s -> (s,a)), ReaderT is (r -> a) |
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| 20:00:52 | <monochrom> | Which one is a worse crime: The type is [Double], but the length is always 100. The type is Int->Double, but the argument is always 0 to 99. |
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| 20:06:27 | <lxsameer> | hey folks, I'm looking for a hlint configuration that follow best practices for an haskell noob and does not assume a prelude |
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| 20:32:08 | <EvanR> | make it Int->Double but the argument must be -50 to +50 and not zero |
| 20:32:16 | <EvanR> | balance restored |
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| 20:40:34 | <dmj`> | monochrom: maybe use the latter, but with Nat. foo :: (0 <= n, n <= 99, KnownNat n) => Proxy n -> Double , and you can be forgiven. |
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| 20:41:52 | <EvanR> | Fin 100 |
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| 20:50:03 | <monochrom> | Unfortunately I am only teaching elementary Haskell so I cannot use type-level numbers for this. |
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| 20:50:26 | <monochrom> | And to your horror, I have decided to commit both crimes. |
| 20:50:43 | <Rembane> | Exciting! |
| 20:50:51 | <monochrom> | Sorry! I will in comments explain that it is unsatisfactory but it's just a weekly tutorial toy exercise. |
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| 20:52:21 | <EvanR> | at the very least spice it up and make the require arguments 1 to 100 |
| 20:53:03 | <monochrom> | Why is 1 to 100 better than 0 to 99? |
| 20:53:31 | <EvanR> | it seems spicier, I don't know about better |
| 20:53:53 | <monochrom> | Oh heh OK |
| 20:53:54 | <EvanR> | tolerance for spice levels vary |
| 20:54:09 | <ncf> | data Fin100 = F0 | F1 | ... | F99 |
| 20:54:23 | <monochrom> | -50 to +50 except 0 is spicier. |
| 20:54:40 | <EvanR> | that's like spice level 5 at suko thai |
| 20:55:18 | <EvanR> | data Fin100 ftw |
| 20:55:30 | <EvanR> | then write a script to produce the addition algorithm |
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| 21:00:25 | <monochrom> | deriving Enum then x+y = toEnum (fromEnum x + fromEnum y) |
| 21:00:45 | <EvanR> | nice |
| 21:01:27 | <EvanR> | > toEnum 7 :: Bool |
| 21:01:29 | <lambdabot> | *Exception: Prelude.Enum.Bool.toEnum: bad argument |
| 21:02:51 | <ncf> | type Fin100 = Pair (Pair (Maybe (Pair (Pair (Pair (Maybe (Pair ()))))))) |
| 21:03:39 | <ncf> | er not Pair |
| 21:03:45 | <ncf> | Pair a = a + a |
| 21:03:46 | <ncf> | whatever |
| 21:04:39 | <ncf> | type Fin100 = (Bool, Bool, Maybe (Bool, Bool, Bool, Maybe Bool)) |
| 21:04:44 | <ncf> | does that work |
| 21:05:23 | <ncf> | yeah |
| 21:05:24 | <EvanR> | how many is that if you count bottoms xD |
| 21:05:36 | <monochrom> | "we don't talk about that here" :) |
| 21:06:04 | <EvanR> | the haskell value not mentionable in polite company |
| 21:07:24 | <monochrom> | More seriously, bottoms are not accessible in code so it doesn't help to count them. |
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| 21:08:02 | <EvanR> | many moons ago some jackass disagreed and uploaded the spoon package xD |
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| 22:19:58 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> hey, that looks fun |
| 22:20:17 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> * fun. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/spoon-0.3.1/docs/Control-Spoon.html |
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| 22:39:19 | <EvanR> | spoonWithHandles... teaspoonWithHandles xD |
| 22:39:28 | <EvanR> | how many handles does your spoon need |
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| 22:39:45 | <Rembane> | All the handles! |
| 22:40:15 | <monochrom> | Bottom = It's handles all the way down |
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