Home liberachat/#haskell: Logs Calendar

Logs on 2024-06-05 (liberachat/#haskell)

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00:35:49 <Axman6> There's a video somewhere where SPJ talks about the optimisations GHC applies, like case-of-case, case-of-known-case etc - anyone know what it's called? I thought it was 'into the core' but I'm not sure that's the one I want
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00:58:02 <Inst> nice, looking at haskell packages on hackage
00:58:07 <Inst> hackage website still sucks, nothing i can do to fix it
00:58:18 <Inst> at least not right now, but there's like a ton of recently updated packages
00:59:20 <Inst> 437 packages updated in the last month
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01:08:55 <geekosaur> well, yes, everyone's updating for ghc 9.10.1
01:08:59 <geekosaur> if nothing else
01:10:13 <Inst> sorry, droped out, family business turns out to be scamtastic and i need to figure out whether to ditch it or fix it
01:11:19 <geekosaur> I'd probably bail, but I already know I have no business being in business
01:12:18 <Inst> it's just not a no-brainer bail, which is the problem
01:12:34 <Inst> current management is bullshit artistry, but there's networks built up
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01:14:23 <geekosaur> (I considered going into business in the late 80s. couple weeks of research into what it would involve and I realized I was already in over my head and I hadn't even done anything beyond a little freelance consulting)
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01:15:44 <Inst> best age to do so is in 40s, but generally high fail rate means that your 40s isn't necessarily the best age to do it
01:15:52 <geekosaur> yeh
01:17:01 <geekosaur> the effort wasn't wasted though, as the job I took afterward involved working with a lot of small business customers and it left me prepared to "translate" between business and tech realms
01:17:43 <EvanR> the number of businesses that go under almost immediately is pretty high, I can only imagine it's mostly people who have money to blow and don't mind not know wtf they're doing
01:17:46 <geekosaur> (somewhere there is a quote that, if that kind of thing didn't happen, we'd still be swinging from the trees…)
01:18:05 <EvanR> meanwhile I've seen people who know what they're doing do extremely well
01:18:29 <EvanR> crazy
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01:55:20 <Inst> tbh it's all risk and timing
01:55:34 <Inst> geekosaur is good at business because he knew not to do it
01:55:37 <Inst> but w/e, #haskell
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02:22:57 <haskellbridge> <zwro> geekosaur: not just a quote, a whole economic theory https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory
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02:24:06 <geekosaur> not quite the same thing…
02:25:17 <geekosaur> if I'd actually tried to go into business, it might have fit
02:25:21 <haskellbridge> <zwro> point being that the greater fool is the necessary risk taker without whom the economy wouldn't move forward
02:26:07 <geekosaur> as distinguished from knowing how to take advantage of otherwise "wasted" effort
02:28:42 <haskellbridge> <zwro> hmm... reading the wiki this might not be what i remembered
02:29:12 <Inst> https://haskell.foundation/podcast/49/
02:29:14 <Inst> lovely fellow
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14:26:18 <yin_> Hoogle very annoyingly refreshes the search when Enter is pressed while typing
14:26:29 <yin_> on slow connections this is awful
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14:27:32 <yin_> it actually refreshes the whole page
14:28:58 <yin_> wht would be the appropriate place to file this issue?
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14:34:22 <ncf> https://github.com/ndmitchell/hoogle/issues
14:35:12 <int-e> I don't see... oh it's a Javascript thing, and the complaint is missing a negation.
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15:04:29 <yin_> int-e: wdym the complaint is missing a negation?
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15:07:05 <kaol> Maybe that Hoogle performs a search as soon as you type anything in the search box.
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15:11:16 <yin_> what i mean is that there's no reason for a full page refresh when pressing enter on an input form
15:11:31 <int-e> Ah. So you like the incremental search but dislike the fact that the there's a form with a submit action (to make things work without javascript)
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15:12:18 <yin_> i don't mind the incremental search but you either create that experience or the "no javascript" experience. both don't work together
15:12:21 <int-e> I didn't actually test what happens when you press Return with the JS thing running.
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15:14:01 <kaol> An event handler catching the default submit event would do that, with preventDefault.
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19:54:42 <Inst> is it idiomatic to override built-ins / functions defined elsewhere with let?
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19:59:25 <yin> Inst: it's not idiomatic if you do something like `let head = ... in ...`
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20:00:13 <Leary> If -Wall warns you about it, it isn't idiomatic.
20:00:51 <yin> well, -Wall warns you of any overloading/shadowing
20:01:00 <yin> and overloading can be idiomatic
20:01:18 <tomsmeding> it warns of shadowing, not overloading (or you mean something else with "overloading" than I do :) )
20:01:43 <yin> Inst: but usually you do something like `let head' = ... in ...` (notice the ')
20:02:19 <yin> tomsmeding: i was under the impression that both words were used in the same context, at least in haskell
20:02:28 <geekosaur> no
20:02:39 <tomsmeding> shadowing is defining the same name again, hiding the existing definition
20:02:55 <geekosaur> "overloading" could refer to typeclass methods, or multiple patterns for a function
20:02:55 <tomsmeding> overloading is giving multiple definitions to the same name, resulting in them all being in scope in some fashion
20:03:03 <tomsmeding> the standard way in haskell being using typeclasses
20:03:22 <probie> I've done it before with `where` in combination with -XRebindableSyntax, but I can't think of any other case where I don't try to avoid shadowing entirely
20:03:30 <yin> oh. i've seen it used wrong then i guess! that makes more sense
20:03:31 <tomsmeding> but indeed, stretching the definition, one could also include geekosaur's example
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20:03:52 <tomsmeding> shadowing makes a lot of sense with -XLinearTypes
20:04:10 <tomsmeding> if you have to pass the same resource around through lots of functions, it makes no sense to keep the previous versions in scope
20:04:50 <tomsmeding> similarly with state-passing code, especially if you open up IO to find the State# RealWorld -> (# a, State# RealWorld #)
20:05:21 <tomsmeding> but I personally don't want to turn off -Wshadow globally in a file just to get slightly nicer -XLinearTypes or state-passing code, so I just don't shadow
20:05:34 <tomsmeding> as with many things in GHC, it would be nice to have more granular control over this
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20:09:26 <yin> hard to get more granular control in any language as we get in haskell
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20:11:44 <dminuoso> Dunno, sometimes we have very coarse tools.
20:12:10 <dminuoso> Like being able to selectively suppress some particular warning on a region or a binding is something that we dont seem to get.
20:12:17 <tomsmeding> still, one can dream with -Worphans, -Wshadow, -XRebindableSyntax (why is fromInteger in Num? Let me override that one separately)
20:13:06 <tomsmeding> also with -XAllowAmbiguousTypes, that would better be a per-function pragma
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22:53:51 <Guest15> foo :: [(Int, [Int])] -> M.Map Int [Int]
22:53:51 <Guest15> foo xs = foldr go M.empty xs
22:53:52 <Guest15>     where go (x, ys) map = foldr (M.adjust (x :)) map ys
22:53:52 <Guest15> I have a function like this, which I’m using to construct a dependency graph. The fold within a fold makes me suspect that there is a cleverer way of doing this/a different abstraction I should be using here - if anyone has thoughts, let me know
22:55:02 <EvanR> to go from [(k,v)] to Map k v you use M.fromList ?
22:55:33 <EvanR> ok it's doing something else
22:56:13 <EvanR> map used as a local variable is punking my brain
22:57:14 <Guest15> Yes - also, the initial map is actually a set of ints and empty lists, not M.empty - that was a mistake on my part
22:57:38 <c_wraith> How do you feel about changing [Int] to (Set Int)?
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22:59:17 <Guest15> I need to perform a topological sort over the graph eventually, but I can still fold over a set so it should be no issue
22:59:50 <c_wraith> Well, that function has no guarantee of preserving uniqueness of entries in the lists...
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23:06:09 <Guest15> If I passed the function something like M.fromList [(1, [2,3 ]), (5, [2, 3])] I would want M.fromList [(2, [1, 5]), (3, [1, 5])]
23:06:19 <Guest15> As in, I actually want the all of the mappings between a particular element that appears in various inner lists and a first element of one of the tuples to be concatenated into one list
23:06:25 <Guest15> Unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying
23:06:53 <Guest15> *some first element
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23:10:59 <troojg> 6D /
23:11:27 <c_wraith> I'm not even sure what operation that is.
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23:11:46 <c_wraith> In graph terms, what are you doing? reversing the edge lists?
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23:20:08 <Guest15> I used ints for readability but in practice, there’s an expression with an identifier and a list of identifiers of other expressions that it depends on i.e. (v, deps) :: (VarName, [VarName]) - and I have a list of these tuples.
23:20:09 <Guest15> So what I want to do is create a dependency graph with edges of the form (node1, node2) such that for some (v, deps), node1 belongs to deps and v == node2 i.e. M.fromList [(1, [2,3 ]), (5, [2, 3])] becomes M.fromList [(2, [1, 5]), (3, [1, 5])]
23:20:09 <Guest15> Then I want to perform a topological sort on that dependency graph, so I can evaluate the expressions in an order that ensures every expression has fully normalized versions of the expressions it depends on when it gets evaluated
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