Home liberachat/#haskell: Logs Calendar

Logs on 2024-07-06 (liberachat/#haskell)

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00:05:49 <mauke> geekosaur: that's a bit too low-level
00:06:55 <geekosaur> I know a lot of System.Process has proved to be problematic on Windows and OS X (apparently has a very broken posix_spawn)
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01:52:38 <dmj`> geekosaur: libuv would be nice to fix that
01:53:30 <geekosaur> I don't think ghc hq is in a big hurry to rewrite the entire I/O manager around libuv
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02:27:52 <dmj`> geekosaur: yea, probably not possible at this point
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03:02:21 <elevenkb> (psu
03:02:26 <elevenkb> sorry, that was a mistake
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15:32:31 <Nosrep> what should tagToEnum# do when it receives an invalid tag (e.g. 3 for Bool)? I feel like it should crash but there's so many cases where it just doesn't and they're so common I feel like if it's not intentional someone should have noticed
15:32:41 <Nosrep> or am I completely misunderstanding what tags do
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15:58:05 <monochrom> I believe that it is just unsafe but zero-cost type coercion.
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15:58:27 <monochrom> I mean the very intention.
16:03:40 <Nosrep> unsafe as in it might segfault or unsafe as in c-style undefined behavior where it might not do what you'd expect
16:04:34 <monochrom> undefined behaviour
16:06:17 <Nosrep> oof
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16:25:31 <probie> Does anyone have strong opinions on pretty printing libraries? Is there a reason to not just use use prettyprinter?
16:29:59 <haskellbridge> <sm> I don't know prettyprinter, but the ones I've tried have/had limitations. pretty-show was easy but couldn't print Day values. pretty-simple is what I currently use, its layout is sometimes not optimal
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16:42:48 <monochrom> I just use prettyprinter. If it does what you want, you can just use it too.
16:43:29 <monochrom> But evidently everyone has a strong opinion on everything, this is why there are so many alternatives for everything on hackage.
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16:44:03 <monochrom> Like even lenses have 3 offerings for what is supposed to be very difficult to offer.
16:45:51 <monochrom> <--- Waiting for someone to upload a competitor to Agda to hackage to complete my point >:)
16:47:11 <probie> Agda is the competitor, they just uploaded it to hackage instead of opam
16:47:28 <monochrom> Sorry, what is opam?
16:47:49 <monochrom> Ah Ocaml's. heh
16:48:16 <monochrom> But I side with Lean.
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16:51:28 <jjnkn> I'm having a little trouble with quantified data constructors. Please see the attached snippet. I don't understand why `h` is universally quantified with `k1`, but not `k` which is present in the return type. https://plaster.tymoon.eu/view/4479#4479
16:54:08 <monochrom> Yes Haskell 2010 (and before) requires that the two k's are unrelated, just because they are in different sigs. The solution is ScopedTypeVariables (enabled by default with recent GHC versions), and you say "g :: forall k. M k => k Fun".
16:57:13 <jjnkn> I changed the signature of `g` to what you proposed (with explicit quantification) and it compiled even without ScopedTypeVariables. That's surprising. I thought universal quantification is implicit...
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16:57:51 <monochrom> Yes, universal quantification is implicit. That proves, not contradicts, why the two k's are unrelated.
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16:58:54 <jjnkn> Why did explicit quantification make it compile, then?
16:59:31 <monochrom> "g :: ∀k ... " and "h :: ∀k ..." therefore two independent k's.
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17:02:23 <jjnkn> So there are 4 combinations of explicit/implicit quant. for `g` and `h`, but only one compiles - explicit `g` and implicit `h`. I don't see why implicit `g` doesn't.
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17:02:31 <monochrom> The designer of ScopedTypeVariables decided to use an explict quantifier syntax to activate scoped type variables so that there is backward compatibility with still using Haskell 2010 rules on older code.
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17:03:31 <jjnkn> As I mentioned, I did not enable ScopedTypeVariables
17:03:37 <monochrom> I will just refer you to https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/users_guide/exts/scoped_type_variables.html
17:04:13 <jjnkn> Ah, now I see that you mentioned it's enabled by default in recent GHC versions
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18:31:31 <female_student_5> Hi, im trying to run this haskell code
18:31:36 <female_student_5> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/55635083/how-to-make-an-infinite-list-of-a-z-concatenated-with-1-then-2-etc
18:31:43 <female_student_5> I literally put this into cmd
18:31:49 <female_student_5> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/55635083/how-to-make-an-infinite-list-of-a-z-concatenated-with-1-then-2-etc
18:31:51 <female_student_5> wait
18:31:57 <female_student_5> this into cmd: Prelude> let variables = [l:show x | x <- [1..], l <- ['a'..'z']]
18:32:02 <female_student_5> And it just says indentation error
18:32:05 <female_student_5> I dont get why
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18:34:36 <ncf> hopefully you didn't literally type Prelude> at the REPL
18:35:33 <__monty__> female_student_5: Cmd as in the Windows command prompt?
18:35:40 <female_student_5> even when I dont do Prelude> it doesnt work
18:35:54 <female_student_5> __monty__ yes
18:36:32 <__monty__> female_student_5: Did you install Haskell? Probably in the form of the Haskell Platform, since you're on Windows.
18:36:51 <__monty__> Or is ghcup recommended on Windows too nowadays?
18:37:09 <female_student_5> yes I have haskell
18:37:17 <female_student_5> I tried it for another function in my code and it works
18:37:40 <female_student_5> Prelude> let variables = [l:show x | x <- [1..], l <- ['a'..'z']]
18:37:40 <female_student_5> Prelude> take 100 variables - this line just doesnt work at all
18:37:48 <female_student_5> <interactive>:1:73: error:
18:37:49 <female_student_5>     parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets)
18:37:55 <female_student_5> I just get this same error all the time
18:38:33 <__monty__> Oh, so in GHCi, not just on the Windows command prompt, gotcha.
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18:39:01 <__monty__> Try `take 3 [1..]`.
18:39:48 <female_student_5> yeah that works
18:40:17 <female_student_5> YES THAT WORKS THANK YOU
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18:40:41 <__monty__> Do you get a result if you simply enter `variables`?
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18:43:02 <female_student_5> no
18:43:29 <female_student_5> ghci> variables
18:43:29 <female_student_5> <interactive>:4:1: error: Variable not in scope: variables
18:43:30 <female_student_5> ghci> take 100 variables
18:43:30 <female_student_5> <interactive>:5:10: error: Variable not in scope: variables :: [a]
18:43:47 <__monty__> So it hasn't been defined for some reason.
18:44:13 <__monty__> Maybe you had a syntax error in the definition?
18:47:12 <female_student_5> let me reload the file
18:47:16 <female_student_5> I adjusted the code a bit
18:47:54 <female_student_5> noe
18:47:55 <female_student_5> nope
18:47:56 <__monty__> If you pastebin the code it'd be a lot easier to help.
18:47:58 <female_student_5> Still throws an error
18:48:17 <female_student_5> its literally what is in this stckoverflow code
18:48:18 <female_student_5> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/55635083/how-to-make-an-infinite-list-of-a-z-concatenated-with-1-then-2-etc
18:48:28 <female_student_5> Prelude> let variables = [l:[] | l <- ['a'..'z']] ++ [l:show x | x <- [1..], l <- ['a'..'z']]
18:48:28 <female_student_5> Prelude> take 100 variables
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18:50:35 <__monty__> That code works when I enter it in GHCi.
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18:50:46 <__monty__> So the problem is likely in the file you're loading.
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18:52:48 <female_student_5> I created a .hs file with just shows two lines
18:52:49 <female_student_5> testing.hs:1:15: error:
18:52:50 <female_student_5>     Not in scope: type constructor or class `Var'
18:52:50 <female_student_5>   |
18:52:51 <female_student_5> 1 | variables :: [Var]
18:52:51 <female_student_5>   | ^^^
18:52:53 <female_student_5> and it came out with this
18:53:30 <__monty__> `Var` is not a predefined type.
18:55:05 <__monty__> `variables` is a list of strings so either you replace that with `String`, or you create a type synonym `type Var = String`. Or you could define a `Var` type but then the code would have to change.
18:55:58 <AlexZenon> �������.
18:58:36 <female_student_5> I've done this now:
18:58:38 <female_student_5> type Var = String
18:58:38 <female_student_5> variables :: [Var]
18:58:38 <female_student_5> variables = [lts:[] | lts <- ['a'..'z']]
18:58:39 <female_student_5>          ++ [lts:show ns | ns <- [1..], lts <- ['a'..'z']]
18:58:53 <female_student_5>     parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets)
18:58:53 <female_student_5> ghci> Prelude> let variables = [lts:[] | lts <- ['a'..'z']] ++ [lts:show ns | ns <- [1..], lts <- ['a'..'z']]
18:58:53 <female_student_5> <interactive>:4:105: error:
18:58:54 <female_student_5>     parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets)
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18:58:58 <female_student_5> still same error
18:59:41 <__monty__> Are you redefining `variables` after loading the file?
19:00:05 <female_student_5> nope
19:00:08 <female_student_5> that's all i've done
19:00:25 <female_student_5> i'll reload
19:00:26 <female_student_5> actually
19:00:28 <__monty__> What did you type into GHCi and what did you not?
19:00:33 <female_student_5> coz I did make a mistake
19:01:50 <female_student_5> GHCi, version 9.4.8: https://www.haskell.org/ghc/ :? for help
19:01:50 <female_student_5> ghci> :load testing.hs
19:01:51 <female_student_5> [1 of 2] Compiling Main ( testing.hs, interpreted )
19:01:51 <female_student_5> Ok, one module loaded.
19:01:52 <female_student_5> ghci> Prelude> let variables = [lts:[] | lts <- ['a'..'z']] ++ [lts:show ns | ns <- [1..], lts <- ['a'..'z']]
19:01:52 <female_student_5> <interactive>:2:105: error:
19:01:53 <female_student_5>     parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets)
19:01:53 <female_student_5> ghci>
19:01:54 <female_student_5> testing.hs is:
19:01:57 <female_student_5> type Var = String
19:01:58 <female_student_5> variables :: [Var]
19:01:58 <female_student_5> variables = [lts:[] | lts <- ['a'..'z']]
19:01:59 <female_student_5>          ++ [lts:show ns | ns <- [1..], lts <- ['a'..'z']]
19:02:14 <mauke> did you type the "Prelude>" part?
19:02:18 <female_student_5> Yes
19:02:19 <__monty__> Yeah, that's the problem.
19:02:21 <mauke> don't
19:02:23 <female_student_5> ok
19:02:43 <female_student_5> yay that works now thanks
19:02:45 <__monty__> That represents the prompt it's not something you type.
19:03:06 <__monty__> But also, if you have the definition for `variables` in a file that you load into GHCi, you don't have to redefine it again.
19:03:13 <mauke> wait, that was the first response you got: <ncf> hopefully you didn't literally type Prelude> at the REPL
19:04:32 <__monty__> Also, while it worked out this time, please don't paste long (more than 3 lines) stretches of text into IRC. It's very disruptive to other conversations. (I know it's quiet here right now but just learn to use a pastebin for all pastes.)
19:04:45 <female_student_5> ok thak you - where is the link to paste bin
19:04:53 <female_student_5> sorry for the long code
19:04:54 <tomsmeding> @where paste
19:04:54 <lambdabot> Help us help you: please paste full code, input and/or output at e.g. https://paste.tomsmeding.com
19:05:41 <tomsmeding> (you could also find this in the /topic of this channel, probably visible at the top of your irc client; not saying this to reprimand you, just FYI :) )
19:05:55 <monochrom> :(
19:06:05 <tomsmeding> we were all here for the first time at some point
19:06:11 <female_student_5> what is /topic
19:06:26 <tomsmeding> it probably gets shown to you if you type "/topic" in your client
19:06:36 <tomsmeding> it's also probably at the top of your screen (depending on the client)
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19:07:15 <female_student_5> Im sorry Im tired and I dont know what you mean
19:07:23 <tomsmeding> what irc client are you using?
19:08:06 <female_student_5> libera
19:08:11 <tomsmeding> ah the web client, I see
19:08:28 <__monty__> female_student_5: IRC channels have a "topic," which is a short description of what the channel's about that can be set by channel operators. IRC commands are prefixed with / to distinguish them from regular text. `/topic` is a command that usually repeats the topic for the current channel. Most IRC clients also display the topic somewhere for convenience, usually at the top of the chat window.
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19:09:13 <female_student_5> Im on this: https://web.libera.chat/
19:09:30 <tomsmeding> I see this when I join #haskell there https://tomsmeding.com/ss/get/tomsmeding/NKbj9Z
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19:09:49 <tomsmeding> but indeed that web client doesn't show it to you when you just type "/topic" in the chat bar; some do
19:09:50 <female_student_5> I see that if I click the 'i' icon
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19:11:41 <female_student_5> thanks all
19:11:44 <female_student_5> Im going to have a nap
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20:10:11 <cheater> man, web irc has always been terrible
20:10:19 <cheater> tell me a time when it wasn't terrible
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20:10:30 <cheater> at least people aren't joining via trillian anymore
20:25:51 <mauke> CGI:IRC, baby
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20:28:17 <geekosaur> it used to be worse than terrible. current kiwiirc is much better than what freenode had BITD
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21:15:29 <haskellbridge> <iqubic (she/her)> I'm using the Matrix, so I can't really comment on the IRC experience all that much. I'm using an Electron based Matrix client.
21:16:28 <hc> Electron? Isn't that this huge codebase thing where any XSS gets potential access to the local filesystem? ;-)
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21:21:15 <geekosaur> I'm using a KDE native app for Matrix
21:21:34 <geekosaur> ("native" meaning it's not just an Electron webapp running in KHTML)
21:22:21 <hc> Does this get the crypto right and complete? ;-)
21:23:32 <geekosaur> are you claiming IRC does? 😈
21:24:06 <hc> Hehehe, well, it doesn't even try to I guess
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21:29:08 <mauke> is it nheko?
21:29:34 <mauke> because that one manages to have HTML injection bugs somehow despite being written in C++
21:29:48 <geekosaur> yes
21:30:03 <geekosaur> and I'm running nightlies and reporting bugs like that
21:30:20 <geekosaur> I do note it's using openssl instead of trying to roll its own crypto
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21:30:57 <geekosaur> it doesn't fully support matrix verification but correctly falls back to the mechanisms it does support
21:31:58 <geekosaur> I'm hoping I don't have to delve into this stuff myself as I'm not particularly conversant with either C++ or KDE
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21:35:52 <mauke> the impression I got was that it was basically just a few Qt standard components smashed together
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21:36:31 <mauke> got something HTML-like from the network? throw it in this QHTML component and hope it renders right
21:36:42 <mauke> oh, it doesn't? do some string mangling on the HTML first, then
21:37:45 <geekosaur> yeh, I reported that
21:38:03 <mauke> it feels less like a comprehensive UI vision and more like "our UI is whatever the components we use render as"
21:38:22 <mauke> which is why different options and panes behave inconsistently
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22:33:58 <hololeap> I'm trying to find a way to use Data to check if one constructor is an ancestor of another in a big tree-like ADT, for instance: data FooT = Bar BarT | Baz BazT; data BarT = Thing1 | Thing2; data BazT = ...
22:34:44 <hololeap> so in that example, I might want to check if Bar is an ancestor of Thing1
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22:35:48 <hololeap> I'm stuck at getting the BarT DataType from the Bar Constr
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22:59:46 <hololeap> is it possible to get the DataTypes of a constructor's fields with Data.Data? I'm not seeing how
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23:02:12 <monochrom> I wonder if GHC.Generics is more suitable for your questions.
23:05:08 <hololeap> I was under the impression that to use GHC.Generics, you have to have some instantiated data. here, I'm actually trying to build a value of this ADT using some user-supplied data
23:06:17 <hololeap> I could do it manually of course, but thought having a way to build it automatically would cut down on boilerplate
23:08:50 <hololeap> oh, maybe gmapM is what I'm looking for
23:11:10 <hololeap> or gmapQ... it seems like I'm looking in the right place now
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All times are in UTC on 2024-07-06.