Logs on 2024-07-09 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 00:10:36 | <haskellbridge> | <thirdofmay18081814goya> xacktm: neat!! |
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| 00:30:00 | <haskellbridge> | <thirdofmay18081814goya> what's a good book on software architecture in the fp paradigm? |
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| 02:05:58 | <monochrom> | There is a "Functional Design And Architecture" but I have not read it, I have only seen that title. |
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| 08:24:57 | <weechat2> | lain`: I do agree that some packages have poor documentation, and I consider `lens` to be one of them. Its documentation is only legible for powerusers that already understand the library. The fact that lens very heavily leaks implementation details left and right amplifies this problem often, you notice this in GHC diagnostics when some miscomposition is deferred and turned into bizarre |
| 08:25:00 | <weechat2> | constraint errors. |
| 08:25:03 | weechat2 | is now known as dminuoso |
| 08:25:44 | <dminuoso> | It's part of why I generally recommend `optics` over `lens` to beginners. |
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| 09:51:17 | <Guest15> | Hi 👋 |
| 09:52:26 | <Guest15> | Is there a function or operator similar to &&& that works on nomadic functions? |
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| 09:54:58 | <Guest15> | Something along the lines of `Applicative m => (a -> m b) -> (a -> m c) -> a -> m (b, c)` |
| 09:56:23 | <mauke> | :t \f g x -> (,) <$> f x <*> g x |
| 09:56:24 | <lambdabot> | Applicative f => (t -> f a1) -> (t -> f a2) -> t -> f (a1, a2) |
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| 09:56:34 | <mauke> | @pl \f g x -> (,) <$> f x <*> g x |
| 09:56:34 | <lambdabot> | ((((,) <$>) .) .) . liftM2 (<*>) |
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| 09:57:13 | <Leary> | :t (liftA2 . liftA2) (,) |
| 09:57:14 | <lambdabot> | (Applicative f1, Applicative f2) => f1 (f2 a) -> f1 (f2 b) -> f1 (f2 (a, b)) |
| 09:57:28 | <mauke> | @pl \f g x -> liftA2 (,) (f x) (g x) |
| 09:57:29 | <lambdabot> | liftM2 (liftA2 (,)) |
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| 10:09:18 | <mreh> | Every time I run this reflex command line tool (obelisk) it says "command not cached, building", taking ages. It's based on nix I think. |
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| 10:10:54 | <Guest15> | :t bisequence |
| 10:10:54 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 10:10:55 | <lambdabot> | • Variable not in scope: bisequence |
| 10:10:55 | <lambdabot> | • Perhaps you meant one of these: |
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| 10:11:35 | <Leary> | @let import Data.Bitraversable |
| 10:11:36 | <lambdabot> | Defined. |
| 10:11:39 | <Leary> | :t bitraverse |
| 10:11:40 | <lambdabot> | (Bitraversable t, Applicative f) => (a -> f c) -> (b -> f d) -> t a b -> f (t c d) |
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| 10:13:41 | <Guest15> | :t \ f g -> bisequence (f &&& g) |
| 10:13:41 | <lambdabot> | (Bitraversable t, Monoid c, Arrow t) => t (c, a) c -> t (c, a) b -> (c, t a b) |
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| 10:14:57 | <Guest15> | :t \ f g -> bisequence . (f &&& g) |
| 10:14:58 | <lambdabot> | Applicative f => (a1 -> f a2) -> (a1 -> f b) -> a1 -> f (a2, b) |
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| 11:08:45 | <Leary> | What does hackage support for public sublibraries look like? Is there any way to give them visible haddocks? |
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| 15:09:40 | <[exa]> | Are there good ways to have optionally-imported instances? I've got a typeclass with a few very useful&convenient instances for the usual base types (Ints, lists, eithers, ...) BUT these are not "natural", there's a choice that others might do differently. I thought about putting these into say Data.MyClass.Instances which could be imported separately, but there ghc complains about orphan |
| 15:09:42 | <[exa]> | instances. |
| 15:12:53 | <[exa]> | hm I see that just adding -fno-warn-orphans to .Instances is pretty common across hackage |
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| 15:20:46 | <EvanR> | it's interesting rust has basically the no orphans rule as well, are they just copying haskell or is this a good rule |
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| 15:46:21 | <yin> | good rule |
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| 15:47:52 | <yin> | does rust have whole project compilation? |
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| 16:29:10 | <yin> | is there a more idiomatic way of doing this? |
| 16:29:15 | <yin> | (>==) :: (a -> Either l r) -> (r -> b) -> a -> Either l b |
| 16:29:17 | <yin> | a >== b = either Left (Right . b) . a |
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| 16:32:33 | <[exa]> | yin: sounds a lil bit like fmap fmap, lemme try |
| 16:34:15 | <Leary> | :t \g f -> g >>> fmap f |
| 16:34:16 | <lambdabot> | Functor f => (a1 -> f a2) -> (a2 -> b) -> a1 -> f b |
| 16:35:24 | <Leary> | :t flip (fmap . fmap) |
| 16:35:25 | <lambdabot> | (Functor f1, Functor f2) => f1 (f2 a) -> (a -> b) -> f1 (f2 b) |
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| 16:35:54 | <EvanR> | "idiomatic" |
| 16:36:12 | <EvanR> | write it however you want and never look at it again |
| 16:36:28 | <EvanR> | @djinn (a -> Either l r) -> (r -> b) -> a -> Either l b |
| 16:36:28 | <lambdabot> | f a b c = |
| 16:36:28 | <lambdabot> | case a c of |
| 16:36:28 | <lambdabot> | Left d -> Left d |
| 16:36:28 | <lambdabot> | Right e -> Right (b e) |
| 16:36:32 | <EvanR> | lol |
| 16:37:26 | <Leary> | The most idiomatic way is to just use `fmap` and `(.)` inline, without bothering to name a sub-fairbairn function. |
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| 16:38:44 | <yin> | a sub what now? |
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| 16:39:28 | <EvanR> | and it looks unnecessarily specific to Either |
| 16:39:41 | <Leary> | @where fairbairn |
| 16:39:41 | <lambdabot> | https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/libraries/2012-February/017548.html |
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| 16:41:08 | <EvanR> | the only thing you can do with arg1 and arg3 is apply them so that seems like beating around the bush, increasing complexity |
| 16:41:21 | <EvanR> | just pass arg1 arg3 to something |
| 16:42:14 | <EvanR> | thing being (fmap arg2) |
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| 17:03:01 | <mauke> | :t \p f x -> second f (p x) |
| 17:03:02 | <lambdabot> | (t -> (d, b)) -> (b -> c) -> t -> (d, c) |
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| 17:03:34 | <mauke> | :t \p f x -> Data.Bifunctor.second f (p x) |
| 17:03:35 | <lambdabot> | Bifunctor p => (t -> p a b) -> (b -> c) -> t -> p a c |
| 17:03:53 | <mauke> | I see |
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| 17:04:32 | <probie> | :t \(f :: a -> Either l r) g -> fmap g . f |
| 17:04:33 | <lambdabot> | (a -> Either l r) -> (r -> b) -> a -> Either l b |
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| 17:20:27 | <ncf> | :t (<<&>>) |
| 17:20:28 | <lambdabot> | error: Variable not in scope: <<&>> |
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| 17:32:50 | <danse-nr3> | @hoogle (<<&>>) |
| 17:32:51 | <lambdabot> | Data.Vinyl.Core (<<&>>) :: RMap rs => Rec f rs -> (forall x . f x -> g x) -> Rec g rs |
| 17:32:51 | <lambdabot> | Data.Vinyl.Notation (<<&>>) :: RMap rs => Rec f rs -> (forall x . f x -> g x) -> Rec g rs |
| 17:32:51 | <lambdabot> | Data.Vinyl.Recursive (<<&>>) :: Rec f rs -> (forall x . f x -> g x) -> Rec g rs |
| 17:36:57 | <ncf> | nope |
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| 18:03:14 | <haskellbridge> | <linj> I am fascinated with haskell and I do not want to write another language at work. I want my first job to be a haskell one. Since there are few companies using haskell in my country, it probably also has to be a remote job. I find that almost all haskell job posts need some work experience. So I plan to stay at home after graduation and contribute to open source haskell projects for a few years, then try to find... |
| 18:03:19 | <haskellbridge> | ... a remote haskell job. Will this plan give me a high possibility to write haskell as my first job? |
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| 18:07:29 | <EvanR> | it's highly possible |
| 18:07:40 | <EvanR> | not to be confused with highly probably |
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| 18:08:00 | <EvanR> | for better probability you should go to meetups in areas with significant haskell activity |
| 18:08:19 | <EvanR> | then you're not some random guy on the internet |
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| 18:09:25 | <probie> | If you never accept a non-Haskell job, I'd say it's guaranteed that your first job would involve writing Haskell :p |
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| 18:10:13 | <yin> | > fst () |
| 18:10:15 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 18:10:15 | <lambdabot> | • Couldn't match expected type ‘(a, b0)’ with actual type ‘()’ |
| 18:10:15 | <lambdabot> | • In the first argument of ‘fst’, namely ‘()’ |
| 18:10:47 | <yin> | not guaranteed |
| 18:11:13 | <haskellbridge> | <linj> 🤣 |
| 18:14:06 | <haskellbridge> | <linj> I do not think there are haskell meetups in my country, but I think I get your point: connection is important |
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| 18:15:48 | <haskellbridge> | <linj> I am not a native English speaker so I am a bit confused with the difference between highly possible and highly probably |
| 18:18:28 | <EvanR> | I typoed |
| 18:18:31 | <probie> | I think "highly probably" is a typo and should be "highly probable". I'd say "highly possible" means that it's likely there's a path to your goal, and "highly probable" means that it's likely you'll find that path |
| 18:18:33 | <EvanR> | highly possible, highly probable |
| 18:19:01 | <EvanR> | possible means probability greater than 0.0, probable means closer to 1.0 |
| 18:20:12 | <probie> | Out of curiosity, what country? (perhaps someone here knows of a meetup) |
| 18:21:02 | <haskellbridge> | <linj> china🙃 |
| 18:21:04 | <danse-nr3> | get away from the slippery path as soon as you can linj, it's a painful one! |
| 18:21:15 | <danse-nr3> | pretend haskell does not exist |
| 18:21:32 | <danse-nr3> | (and nothing to do with china i just caught up on the chat later) |
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| 18:23:55 | <haskellbridge> | <linj> yeah, I also hope I never know haskell because then I can easily find a satisfied job |
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| 18:24:26 | <danse-nr3> | maybe you are still in time |
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| 18:25:29 | <EvanR> | apparently there's a chinese haskell chat room somewhere |
| 18:26:30 | <danse-nr3> | there definitely is, but is that a good recommendation? I haven't been segregated by language since decades |
| 18:27:24 | <EvanR> | someone should tell whoever is in there to come here xD |
| 18:27:48 | <danse-nr3> | i just wouldn't necessarily recommend it to a beginner |
| 18:28:19 | <nhar> | \quit |
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| 18:30:41 | <EvanR> | maybe there are leads for which city has the most haskell scene |
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| 18:46:48 | <monochrom> | Munich has an internationally known haskell meetup, just because they are the only one who spams the haskell mailing list. >:) |
| 18:47:22 | <monochrom> | Actually one time one person complained. But no one else paid attention. :) |
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| 18:47:57 | <int-e> | spam filters are a thing |
| 18:50:26 | <monochrom> | My perspective is that the community has been fine with it so a newcomer should learn the community consensus about these things instead of being fully of opinions. |
| 18:50:52 | × | soverysour quits (~soverysou@user/soverysour) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 18:51:46 | <monochrom> | The same principle as the netiquette that when you join a forum you lurk for 6 months (yes that's right) to learn its culture before you dare to speak up for the first time. |
| 18:52:29 | <int-e> | Well it would probably be a problem if every local Haskell meeting started doing that. |
| 18:52:36 | int-e | shrugs |
| 18:52:46 | <int-e> | Somehow, that hasn't happened. |
| 18:53:15 | <[exa]> | kinda normal to just redirect these to a -meetup ML |
| 18:54:02 | <monochrom> | Yeah this is where we actually prove that we are pragmatic. Instead of formalizing and theorizing the theoretical problem, we don't worry until it happens. >:) |
| 18:54:37 | <int-e> | And it's certainly more on topic than [Haskell] HC@AIxIA: AI&Health Seminar Series (2024) - JULY 11 |
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| 18:59:49 | <monochrom> | Haha |
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| 19:24:29 | <mreh> | does fmap . fmap have an alias? |
| 19:24:54 | <mreh> | @hoogle (Functor f1, Functor f2) => (a -> b) -> f1 (f2 a) -> f1 (f2 b) |
| 19:24:55 | <lambdabot> | Protolude (<<$>>) :: (Functor f, Functor g) => (a -> b) -> f (g a) -> f (g b) |
| 19:24:55 | <lambdabot> | Protolude.Functor (<<$>>) :: (Functor f, Functor g) => (a -> b) -> f (g a) -> f (g b) |
| 19:24:55 | <lambdabot> | Relude.Functor.Fmap (<<$>>) :: (Functor f, Functor g) => (a -> b) -> f (g a) -> f (g b) |
| 19:25:35 | <mreh> | @hoogle (<<<$>>>) |
| 19:25:36 | <lambdabot> | No results found |
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| 19:27:01 | <mreh> | no prefix version, boo |
| 19:27:22 | <mreh> | :t fmap fmap fmap |
| 19:27:23 | <lambdabot> | (Functor f1, Functor f2) => (a -> b) -> f1 (f2 a) -> f1 (f2 b) |
| 19:28:19 | <mreh> | :t fmap fmap fmap id |
| 19:28:20 | <lambdabot> | (Functor f1, Functor f2) => f1 (f2 a) -> f1 (f2 a) |
| 19:30:37 | <Rembane> | It looks like sequence but for functors. |
| 19:32:24 | <monochrom> | :) |
| 19:33:49 | <ncf> | not really |
| 19:34:16 | <ncf> | sequence commutes the two functors |
| 19:34:37 | <Rembane> | :t sequence |
| 19:34:38 | <lambdabot> | (Traversable t, Monad m) => t (m a) -> m (t a) |
| 19:34:55 | <Rembane> | Yup, I misread. |
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| 20:26:25 | <EvanR> | :t fmap . fmap |
| 20:26:26 | <lambdabot> | (Functor f1, Functor f2) => (a -> b) -> f1 (f2 a) -> f1 (f2 b) |
| 20:26:31 | <EvanR> | :t (.) . (.) |
| 20:26:32 | <lambdabot> | (b -> c) -> (a1 -> a2 -> b) -> a1 -> a2 -> c |
| 20:26:47 | <EvanR> | :t fmap fmap fmap |
| 20:26:49 | <lambdabot> | (Functor f1, Functor f2) => (a -> b) -> f1 (f2 a) -> f1 (f2 b) |
| 20:27:13 | <EvanR> | :t (\f -> f f f) fmap |
| 20:27:14 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 20:27:14 | <lambdabot> | • Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: |
| 20:27:14 | <lambdabot> | a ~ ((a -> b) -> a) -> (a -> b) -> b |
| 20:27:20 | <EvanR> | I meant to do that |
| 20:27:38 | <EvanR> | the obvious formula fails again |
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| 20:34:46 | <tomsmeding> | EvanR: just need to add more type signatures |
| 20:34:49 | <tomsmeding> | :t (\(f :: forall f a b. Functor f => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b) -> f f f) fmap |
| 20:34:50 | <lambdabot> | (Functor f1, Functor f2) => (a -> b) -> f1 (f2 a) -> f1 (f2 b) |
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| 20:35:21 | <EvanR> | actually not bad |
| 20:35:29 | <EvanR> | type sig could be worse |
| 20:36:20 | <tomsmeding> | :t id id id |
| 20:36:21 | <lambdabot> | a -> a |
| 20:36:26 | <tomsmeding> | :t (\f -> f f f) id |
| 20:36:27 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 20:36:27 | <lambdabot> | • Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: t ~ t0 -> t |
| 20:36:27 | <lambdabot> | Expected type: t0 -> t |
| 20:36:34 | <tomsmeding> | :t (\(f :: forall a. a -> a) -> f f f) id |
| 20:36:35 | <lambdabot> | a -> a |
| 20:41:26 | <EvanR> | that's a good one |
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| 21:49:14 | <mreh> | :t on |
| 21:49:16 | <lambdabot> | (b -> b -> c) -> (a -> b) -> a -> a -> c |
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| 21:57:52 | <EvanR> | :t off |
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| 23:15:10 | <jackdk> | Does there exist some kind of magic horrid low-level function that can test whether of not I'm looking at a thunk or not? I am trying to track down a possible laziness bug |
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| 23:19:20 | <yin> | jackdk: what have you tried so far? |
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| 23:19:51 | <yin> | you can force evaluation with bang patterns, `seq`, or Debug.Trace |
| 23:21:13 | <yin> | a more complex alternative is to compile with profiling enabled and generate a profiling report, if you're comfortable with that |
| 23:21:24 | <ncf> | https://stackoverflow.com/questions/28687384/test-if-a-value-has-been-evaluated-to-weak-head-normal-form |
| 23:21:26 | <jackdk> | yin: mostly "look at the code and think really hard", which lead to https://github.com/snoyberg/http-client/issues/538 . But the PR linked to it doesn't show an improvement in the heap profile. (If it were a fix, I would expect it to reduce the heap growth but not resolve it completely - we have another PR coming to fix responses being retained by resourcet |
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| 23:22:14 | <jackdk> | Thank you both, there's some good stuff in that SO ilnk |
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