Home liberachat/#haskell: Logs Calendar

Logs on 2024-07-15 (liberachat/#haskell)

00:00:07 → teesquare joins (~teesquare@user/teesquare)
00:01:50 → nullobject joins (~nullobjec@user/nullobject)
00:04:26 × pmk_ quits (6afe4476a1@2a03:6000:1812:100::26d) (Server closed connection)
00:04:34 → pmk joins (6afe4476a1@2a03:6000:1812:100::26d)
00:05:48 × nullobject quits (~nullobjec@user/nullobject) (Client Quit)
00:10:51 → Guest73 joins (~Guest73@2a09:bac3:469:18c8::278:21)
00:11:11 × Guest73 quits (~Guest73@2a09:bac3:469:18c8::278:21) (Client Quit)
00:12:29 → Axman6 joins (~Axman6@user/axman6)
00:18:35 × cpressey quits (~weechat@176.254.71.203) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
00:19:24 × CrunchyFlakes quits (~CrunchyFl@ip92348280.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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00:31:16 × gmg quits (~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
00:32:32 → gmg joins (~user@user/gehmehgeh)
00:33:53 × jakzale quits (6291399afa@user/jakzale) (Server closed connection)
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00:38:38 × micro quits (~micro@user/micro) (Server closed connection)
00:38:46 → micro joins (~micro@user/micro)
00:38:48 <Leary> Anyone flush on delimited continuation literature? I need a good (Haskell-usable) name for {}^{-}\mathcal{F}^{+} AKA "the controller provided by `spawn`" AKA `\tag f -> control0# tag \k -> f (prompt# tag . k)`.
00:41:00 × gmg quits (~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Quit: Leaving)
00:49:23 × titibandit quits (e33ffbab65@user/titibandit) (Server closed connection)
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01:12:55 → throwndice joins (~herodiade@193.42.96.78)
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01:14:12 × throwndice quits (~herodiade@193.42.96.78) (Client Quit)
01:14:21 → ursa-major joins (114efe6c39@2a03:6000:1812:100::11f3)
01:16:01 → ddellacosta joins (~ddellacos@ool-44c73d29.dyn.optonline.net)
01:21:59 → peterbecich joins (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com)
01:34:09 × _________ quits (~nobody@user/noodly) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
01:35:23 × ddellacosta quits (~ddellacos@ool-44c73d29.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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02:05:06 × machinedgod quits (~machinedg@d173-183-246-216.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
02:08:27 × peterbecich quits (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
02:13:05 × gabiruh quits (~gabiruh@vps19177.publiccloud.com.br) (Server closed connection)
02:14:38 × Catty quits (~catties@user/meow/catties) (Server closed connection)
02:14:59 → catties joins (~catties@user/meow/catties)
02:16:06 → dysthesis joins (~dysthesis@user/dysthesis)
02:16:47 → Square2 joins (~Square@user/square)
02:20:50 × flukiluke quits (~m-7humut@2603:c023:c000:6c7e:8945:ad24:9113:a962) (Server closed connection)
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02:28:35 × tjbc quits (~tjbc@user/fliife) (Server closed connection)
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02:30:08 × xerox quits (~edi@user/edi) (Server closed connection)
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02:33:43 × dyniec quits (~dyniec@dybiec.info) (Quit: WeeChat 4.2.2)
02:40:47 × rvalue quits (~rvalue@user/rvalue) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
02:43:55 × terrorjack quits (~terrorjac@2a01:4f8:c17:87f8::) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
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03:01:03 → rvalue joins (~rvalue@user/rvalue)
03:02:14 → dhil joins (~dhil@2001:8e0:2014:3100:df41:53f:d840:e364)
03:06:14 × CrunchyFlakes quits (~CrunchyFl@ip92348280.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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04:21:01 × joeyadams quits (~joeyadams@2603:6010:5100:2ed:f1e3:4747:4928:80a0) (Quit: Leaving)
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05:00:53 → vulpine joins (xfnw@user/meow/xfnw)
05:01:07 → _________ joins (~nobody@user/noodly)
05:02:08 × ggb quits (a62ffbaf4f@2a03:6000:1812:100::3ac) (Server closed connection)
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05:14:45 × vulpine quits (xfnw@user/meow/xfnw) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
05:15:59 × tinwood quits (~tinwood@canonical/tinwood) (Server closed connection)
05:16:12 → tinwood joins (~tinwood@general.default.akavanagh.uk0.bigv.io)
05:16:13 × tinwood quits (~tinwood@general.default.akavanagh.uk0.bigv.io) (Changing host)
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05:18:50 × euphores quits (~SASL_euph@user/euphores) (Quit: Leaving.)
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05:19:55 × dhil quits (~dhil@2001:8e0:2014:3100:df41:53f:d840:e364) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
05:20:44 × acidsys quits (~crameleon@openSUSE/member/crameleon) (Server closed connection)
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05:23:18 × vulpine quits (xfnw@user/meow/xfnw) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
05:23:44 × sm quits (~znc@plaintextaccounting/sm) (Server closed connection)
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05:25:57 × danse-nr3 quits (~danse-nr3@151.43.136.149) (Quit: Leaving)
05:26:31 → euphores joins (~SASL_euph@user/euphores)
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05:26:38 × rvalue quits (~rvalue@user/rvalue) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
05:27:01 × ft quits (~ft@p4fc2ab80.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: leaving)
05:30:22 × Sgeo quits (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
05:30:29 rvalue- is now known as rvalue
05:33:08 × kmein quits (~weechat@user/kmein) (Server closed connection)
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05:40:37 → vulpine joins (xfnw@user/meow/xfnw)
05:46:14 → CiaoSen joins (~Jura@2a05:5800:2b3:8a00:e6b9:7aff:fe80:3d03)
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06:09:04 → peterbecich joins (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com)
06:15:03 → aforemny joins (~aforemny@2001:9e8:6cd2:fc00:1da8:718a:ae87:dc3a)
06:16:12 → tromp joins (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
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06:24:20 × comonad quits (~comonad@p200300d0273ec200f169249ffaccfbba.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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06:58:38 → __monty__ joins (~toonn@user/toonn)
07:02:16 × euleritian quits (~euleritia@dynamic-176-003-083-134.176.3.pool.telefonica.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
07:02:29 → euleritian joins (~euleritia@pd9ebb103.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
07:02:34 × euleritian quits (~euleritia@pd9ebb103.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
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07:09:14 × samhh_ quits (7569f027cf@2a03:6000:1812:100::e4) (Server closed connection)
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07:27:26 × tromp quits (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
07:39:34 × CiaoSen quits (~Jura@2a05:5800:2b3:8a00:e6b9:7aff:fe80:3d03) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
07:48:46 × phma quits (~phma@host-67-44-208-22.hnremote.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
07:55:36 × danse-nr3 quits (~danse-nr3@151.43.163.81) (Quit: Leaving)
07:58:50 × fn_lumi quits (3d621153a5@2a03:6000:1812:100::df7) (Server closed connection)
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08:01:52 × euleritian quits (~euleritia@dynamic-176-003-083-134.176.3.pool.telefonica.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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08:34:39 × CiaoSen quits (~Jura@2a05:5800:2b3:8a00:e6b9:7aff:fe80:3d03) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
08:34:47 × YuutaW quits (~YuutaW@mail.yuuta.moe) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
08:34:55 × ash3en quits (~ash3en@89.246.174.164) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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10:33:39 <yin> what's the most convenient way of printing Words in their binary representation?
10:34:58 → oneeyedalien joins (~oneeyedal@user/oneeyedalien)
10:37:30 <ncf> > showBin (42 :: Word) ""
10:37:31 <lambdabot> error:
10:37:31 <lambdabot> Variable not in scope: showBin :: Word -> [Char] -> t
10:37:37 <ncf> > Numeric.showBin (42 :: Word) ""
10:37:38 <lambdabot> error:
10:37:38 <lambdabot> Not in scope: ‘Numeric.showBin’
10:37:38 <lambdabot> Perhaps you meant one of these:
10:39:26 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> fmap fromIntegral . unpack
10:39:59 <danse-nr3> > fmap fromIntegral . unpack $ (24 :: Word)
10:40:00 <lambdabot> error:
10:40:00 <lambdabot> • Variable not in scope: unpack :: Word -> f a0
10:40:00 <lambdabot> • Perhaps you meant one of these:
10:40:25 <danse-nr3> go figure which unpack this was. Well if anyone knows go on please
10:40:39 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> bytestring
10:40:50 <xerox> > showIntAtBase 2 intToDigit (127 :: Word) ""
10:40:51 <lambdabot> "1111111"
10:40:55 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> They didn't say what notation they want
10:41:10 <danse-nr3> % fmap fromIntegral . unpack $ (24 :: Word)
10:41:10 <yahb2> <interactive>:17:21: error: ; Variable not in scope: unpack :: Word -> f a0
10:41:19 <danse-nr3> import Data.Bytestring (unpack)
10:41:29 <danse-nr3> % import Data.Bytestring (unpack)
10:41:29 <yahb2> <no location info>: error: ; Could not find module ‘Data.Bytestring’ ; Perhaps you meant Data.ByteString (from bytestring-0.11.5.3)
10:41:40 <danse-nr3> % import Data.ByteString (unpack)
10:41:40 <yahb2> <no output>
10:41:43 <danse-nr3> % fmap fromIntegral . unpack $ (24 :: Word)
10:41:43 <yahb2> <interactive>:23:21: error: ; • Couldn't match type ‘bytestring-0.11.5.3:Data.ByteString.Internal.Type.ByteString’ ; with ‘Word’ ; Expected: Word -> [GHC.Word.Word8] ...
10:41:53 <danse-nr3> uff
10:42:15 <danse-nr3> sorry maerwald got to come in IRC if you want to showcase that
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10:46:21 ChanServ sets mode +v lambdabot
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11:12:18 <yin> a simple "no" would suffice :D
11:12:47 <yin> jk. thank you
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12:21:45 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> I had a horrible idea, so binding to C code from haskell is a pain in the arse, more so than from Rust. Calling out from haskell and calling into haskell is slow, compared to staying inside haskell.
12:22:09 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> See a pattern? The other language not being haskell is the problem, so what if, we wrote a C to haskell compiler lmao
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12:31:45 <tomsmeding> magic_rb: isn't the point of calling out to C that the C code is faster than what you'd reasonably write in haskell
12:31:57 <tomsmeding> a C to haskell compiler would have a hard time meeting that performance
12:34:28 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> tomsmeding: Carefully generated haskell should be fast enough, especially with generous use of IO and malloc+free
12:35:13 <tomsmeding> X doubt
12:35:19 <tomsmeding> C compilers do SIMD
12:35:37 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> Then we need to teach ghc simd :)
12:35:40 <tomsmeding> this can give 2x and up to 7x or 8x speedup on some code, depending on the cpu architecture
12:35:52 <tomsmeding> ah, indeed :)
12:36:07 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> Be a bit optimistic (its a dumb idea anyway, im not about to implement a c compiler, i dont hate myself that much)
12:36:25 <tomsmeding> it would be amazing if ghc understood simd
12:36:40 <tomsmeding> even if ghc is not smart enough to vectorise stuff by itself, at least the programmer could hand-optimise core loops
12:36:59 <tomsmeding> they have to hand-optimise these kinds of core loops anyway, using IOVectors with unsafePerformIO instead of normal vectors and stuff
12:38:56 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> Would explain why my gameengine's physics engine is so slow :)
12:39:03 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> That and "effectful"
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13:10:37 <Guest89> hello
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13:11:36 <tomsmeding> hi; If you have a question, follow the standard instruction "don't ask to ask, just ask"
13:11:40 <tomsmeding> :)
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13:12:38 <tomsmeding> bye
13:13:33 <ghodawalaaman> lol
13:14:29 <ghodawalaaman> hello guys
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13:15:08 <ghodawalaaman> I want to learn haskell however I couldn't motivate my self to do so because I already know python, c, java, bash, perl
13:15:32 <ghodawalaaman> what interesting thing haskell has that I could utilize
13:16:03 <hc> Learning a side effect free language like haskell will have a lasting positive side effect on your brain cells
13:16:36 <ghodawalaaman> that's an interesting reason to learn Haskell
13:16:39 <ghodawalaaman> :D
13:16:48 <danse-nr3> don't do that ghodawalaaman, step away from haskell if you still can
13:17:03 ghodawalaaman terrified D:
13:17:05 <haskellbridge> <sm> welcome ghodawalaaman. Also haskell is good for writing correct reliable long lasting code that starts and runs fast. You'll feel motivated after you've hit enough bugs with those other languages
13:17:45 <haskellbridge> <sm> like java is to perl, but turned up to 11
13:18:24 <tomsmeding> I've heard multiple other people state that once they learned haskell to a decent level, they really noticed that their code in other (unrelated) languages improved, just due to knowing different ways of thinking about problems
13:18:24 <ghodawalaaman> sm: but the thing is I very rarely write code and all the code that I have written isn't that high quality. my code just do the work I want it to do.
13:18:33 <ghodawalaaman> can I use haskell as a scripting lang?
13:18:39 <ghodawalaaman> for my unix servers
13:18:51 <tomsmeding> it's not ideal for that, but it can work fairly well
13:19:33 <tomsmeding> there's a small header you can put at the top of a stand-alone haskell file to make it executable on its own https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/3.4/cabal-commands.html#cabal-v2-run ("script files")
13:20:09 <ghodawalaaman> I see
13:20:23 ghodawalaaman writes "learn haskell" in his todo list
13:20:24 <ghodawalaaman> :D
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13:20:56 <hc> ghodawalaaman: One thing haskell has that the languages you mentioned (afaict) do not have is green threads, i.e., you can spawn millions of threads without OS support in an efficient way, all the while avoiding writing "asynchronous" code like in rust or JS
13:21:00 <tomsmeding> I say "not ideal" not because of the need for that header -- that's very little effort, and you can even have dependencies! -- but because Haskell and its libraries are not necessarily written to optimise for "glue code" applications like what you would use a bash script for
13:21:14 <hc> So in case you want to write a network server that serves many thousands of clients at the same time, it might be a good choice
13:21:17 <danse-nr3> python has green threads
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13:21:29 <tomsmeding> coroutines?
13:21:38 <haskellbridge> <sm> I wouldn't bother with haskell for scripting, unless you already use and love haskell
13:21:58 <danse-nr3> are they the same tomsmeding?
13:22:02 <hc> danse-nr3: I thought python still had a GIL?
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13:22:22 <danse-nr3> green threads work well with a lock as far as i understand
13:22:24 hc hasn't used python in a serious way for ages, though, so I might be wrong
13:22:36 <tomsmeding> danse-nr3: which API precisely are you talking about?
13:22:47 <tomsmeding> hc: people are currently working on removing the GIL
13:23:05 <danse-nr3> i don't recall ... there was a library in vogue when i was using it, but time has passed
13:23:10 <hc> tomsmeding: Good to know! :)
13:23:26 <haskellbridge> <sm> if you don't code much and don't need it, there's no real reason to learn it except for mental stimulation. But you could start by using tools built with it. Eg shellcheck will make shell scripting much better for you
13:23:39 <tomsmeding> I guess this exists https://docs.python.org/3/library/threading.html , TIL, don't know how well it scales
13:23:52 <danse-nr3> good point sm
13:24:11 <danse-nr3> ghodawalaaman take a look at shellcheck it's ideal if you have lots of bash scripts
13:24:30 <danse-nr3> (but recall my advice, better not to get into haskell XD
13:25:20 <hc> danse-nr3: you mean it's better to start with agda or isabelle first?
13:25:47 <ghodawalaaman> danse-nr3: I have very few bash scripts TBH, it's mostly just throw away scripts anyway which I could write in half hour
13:26:05 ghodawalaaman is scared to try haskell because of danse-nr3
13:26:10 <danse-nr3> huh moved to offtopic hc
13:26:24 <tomsmeding> they haven't explained why they want to scare you off :p
13:26:24 <danse-nr3> i'll shout ghodawalaaman
13:26:33 <danse-nr3> *shut
13:26:49 <ghodawalaaman> (ㆆ _ ㆆ)
13:27:19 <danse-nr3> well you will find a lot of enthusiasts here ghodawalaaman so someone has to jump on the other side of the bias
13:27:47 <tomsmeding> I think sm's contributions in this discussion are very well nuanced :)
13:27:53 <ghodawalaaman> I see, you are trying to make an equilibrium
13:27:53 <ghodawalaaman> :D
13:28:11 <danse-nr3> yep, sm's idea sounds the best to me as well
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14:05:46 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> What are some more recent books like Real World Haskell focused on applied Haskell?
14:07:21 <Hecate> a couple of books were published recently
14:07:35 <Hecate> https://pragprog.com/titles/rshaskell/effective-haskell/
14:07:38 <Hecate> this is should be good
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14:07:55 <Hecate> so should this one: https://leanpub.com/production-haskell
14:08:04 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> Hecate: ah i got this recommendation recently, will definitely check it out
14:08:09 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> Hecate: never heard of it, thanks a lot!
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14:09:10 <haskellbridge> <sm> @where books
14:10:57 <haskellbridge> <sm> @where books
14:11:45 <Hecate> :)
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14:13:12 <haskellbridge> <sm> please robot sir,
14:13:12 <haskellbridge> @where books ?
14:13:12 <lambdabot> https://www.extrema.is/articles/haskell-books is the best list of Haskell books. See also: LYAH, HTAC, RWH, PH, YAHT, SOE, HR, PIH, TFwH, wikibook, PCPH, HPFFP, FSAF, HftVB, TwT, FoP, PFAD, WYAH,
14:13:12 <lambdabot> non-haskell-books
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14:13:53 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> very nice! ty
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14:24:42 <tomsmeding> sm: was that a newline? :p
14:26:16 <haskellbridge> <sm> my second attempt had a newline yes, trying to put @where at the start of the line (but the bridge ate it)
14:27:05 <tomsmeding> I'm kind of surprised the bridge even lets you send multiline messages without some identifying prefix on the subsequent lines
14:27:59 <haskellbridge> <sm> (and third attempt had the newline too, of course. But I think what did it was flattering the robot overlord)
14:28:12 <tomsmeding> I agree
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14:54:51 <haskellbridge> <mauke> Code injection on IRC?
14:54:51 <haskellbridge> > ()
14:54:52 <lambdabot> ()
14:55:10 <haskellbridge> <mauke> Haha, foiled by Markdown
14:55:43 <tomsmeding> seems like it worked though
14:55:52 <haskellbridge> <mauke> ... or not. That's some split-brain rendering
14:56:14 <tomsmeding> unless you wanted to do something else than evaluate `()` :p
14:57:07 <haskellbridge> <mauke> the IRC and Matrix sides seem to have very different ideas about what I'm sending 😄
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15:20:45 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> what's the fmap definition used to parse "(+) <$> (*2)"?
15:23:47 <ncf> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ghc-internal-9.1001.0/docs/src/GHC.Internal.Base.html#line-1443
15:24:04 <ncf> aka Reader
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15:27:00 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> @irc_libera.chat_ncf:kf8nh.com: hm what did you query hoogle with?
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15:30:23 <ncf> Functor
15:30:52 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> i see, ty!
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16:13:38 <tomsmeding> this is something that one doesn't need hoogle for when sufficiently used to mental typeclass inference :)
16:14:15 <tomsmeding> (and the function/Reader Functor/Applicative/Monad instances are well-known for producing pointfree (pointless?) unreadable code)
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18:19:37 <kqr> @pl join . fmap f
18:19:37 <lambdabot> (f =<<)
18:19:45 <kqr> ...Oh. Of course.
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18:25:56 Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
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18:36:05 <monochrom> :)
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20:20:06 <dmj`> is nikita volkov in here
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20:38:40 <EvanR> with the real nikita volkov please stand up
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20:48:50 dmj` looks around
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22:29:04 <monochrom> Oh w00t new ghcup version!
22:29:57 <int-e> hmm why is that exciting?
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22:30:19 → euleritian joins (~euleritia@dynamic-176-005-135-121.176.5.pool.telefonica.de)
22:30:21 <monochrom> Because I'm bored >:)
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22:34:07 <yushyin> software that is well-maintained also gets me excited sometimes, because these days it is not a given!
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22:39:22 <davean> When was it?
22:39:57 <davean> I'll spool up my timemachine
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22:55:00 <EvanR> well-maintained is relative right. It evokes a picture where The Ambient Software Platform keeps making changes which make your motionless code suddenly look broken
22:55:19 <EvanR> given that, what does it mean for The Ambient Software Platform to be well-maintained?
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22:55:36 <geekosaur> isn't that the definition for web stuff?
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22:58:25 <yin> yushyin: these days? has it ever been?
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22:58:55 <EvanR> if I go into my code and write absolute nonsense that doesn't compile, can I complain that the compiler and OS aren't well-maintained xD
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23:18:58 <ae> greetings :)
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All times are in UTC on 2024-07-15.