Home liberachat/#haskell: Logs Calendar

Logs on 2024-07-25 (liberachat/#haskell)

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00:47:32 <prolic_> hi folks
00:47:47 <prolic_> regardings qt5 bindings for haskell, I just made the opengl demo work
00:48:00 <prolic_> https://github.com/prolic/hsqml-demo-samples
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04:35:49 <jle`> nice
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05:29:09 <probie> Are there any "code quality" analysis tools for Haskell?
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05:30:54 <Lears> probie: stan
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05:35:22 <probie> are there any others? stan has the slightly annoying requirement of not operating directly on the source, _and_ needing to match GHC versions
05:40:21 <haskellbridge> <bdub> probie: HLint works well enough
05:40:46 <haskellbridge> <bdub> Least for this noob ;)
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05:52:18 <probie> bdub: This isn't about results, it's about ticking boxes. hlint is a "linter" so doesn't sound adequate, even if the distinction between a linter and a static analysis tool is rather fuzzy
05:55:32 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> Fork it and sed/linter/static analyzer/g
05:55:49 <jackdk> Can you make GHC itself fit the definition of "static analyser" on your compliance doc? It does a lot of that
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06:14:45 <[exa]> probie: -Wstrict
06:15:03 <Axman6> type systems are static analysis
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06:24:40 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> Axman6: You mean type checker
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06:36:47 <Franciman> aren't type systems coarse denotational semantics?
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06:44:41 JuanDaugherty imagined coarse in sense of not mapping to integer functions or something but couldn connect that notion from first exposure to denotional semantics in strachey's popular book to todays enwiki article
06:45:42 <JuanDaugherty> in any case finished production worthy thing vs ivory tower salient
06:46:17 <JuanDaugherty> computing jeremiad or whatever
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09:38:50 <hadronized> I’m still kinda obsessed with testing LinearTypes to see whether it provides more performance lately; I wonder how much the community has switched to using it for things like heavy resource utilization, etc.
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10:56:01 <galois`> learn you a haskell for great
10:56:33 <galois`> ... good
10:57:32 <danse-web> ?
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12:07:40 <zzz> i just learned why disjoint unions are called disjoint unions and although it makes sense, i just feel the need to vent that set/category theorists are horrible at naming things
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12:09:58 <danse-glirc> which name do you propose instead zzz?
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12:13:33 <zzz> danse-glirc: i'm not specifically criticizing it, don't get me wrong. but after learning so many new confusing terms, the apparent (and humorous) contradiction in "disjoint union" just hit a nerve :p
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12:17:21 <zzz> follow it with the relationship between them as sum types relating to coproducts and the "fun" continues
12:17:36 <danse-web> before stating that a term is "confusing", maybe check whether your learning process is. Not sure you realise that we live in a world of inscrutable (and loud) acronyms
12:18:16 <danse-web> something like "disjoint union" is a luxury that most of the times we cannot afford
12:19:09 <zzz> my learning process is very probably at fault, yes :)
12:19:47 <zzz> it's curiosity driven and as such structure definitely suffers
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12:21:37 <danse-web> if i may dare a guess, maybe the issue lies elsewhere, for instance in its speed. I can imagine that after one gets acquainted with "union" to the point where the technical meaning means more than the natural language one, and after learning that there can be different types of unions, then having a "disjoint union" does not sound that strange
12:25:53 <zzz> danse-web: i agree, it does make sense
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12:30:23 <zzz> the effect is maybe amplified by the translation to my native language
12:31:06 <zzz> where junction and union are the same word
12:33:00 <danse-web> yeah i see how it can sound funny with some imagination
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13:52:39 <zzz> come to think of it, set can also be translated to the same word
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14:01:22 <ncf> zzz: category theorists call those coproducts (whether that's a better name is up for debate)
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16:53:15 <zzz> ncf: yes, i made a comment about that also :)
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17:54:33 <[exa]> am I doing something completely wrong or the "standalone deriving" and "deriving via" cannot be combined? (whatever I'm doing it thinks `via` is a type variable parameter)
18:02:25 <[exa]> oh wow it's `deriving via X instance Y` but not `deriving instance X via Y`. thanks #haskell for rubberducking. :D
18:03:19 <EvanR> 🦆
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18:07:37 <dminuoso> That is certainly a quirky order, [exa].
18:07:56 <dminuoso> ... deriving (Semigroup, Monoid)
18:07:59 <dminuoso> oops
18:08:22 <dminuoso> ... deriving (Semigroup, Monoid) via (a -> App m b)
18:08:25 <dminuoso> deriving via (a -> App m b) instance Monoid (Kleisli m a b)
18:08:55 <[exa]> whew
18:10:23 <[exa]> anyway yeah I got schooled in the later step, was trying to do something like `deriving via (SomeMarker (f a)) instance (ToJSON1 f, ToJSON a) => ToJSON (f a)` but that causes overlapping instance head because `(f a) ~ SomeMarker (anotherF anotherA)`
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18:11:40 <[exa]> the ToJSON1 + ToJSON = bigger ToJSON combo looks wunderbar but I guess it's just too invasive
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18:59:33 <tram> when I do "5 * (2%3)" in ghci I get 10 % 3 with type Integral a => Ratio a but when I define a function like that (https://bpa.st/EGUQ) I get a type error. How come?
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19:03:16 <tram> Ok sorry I know my bad
19:03:19 <tram> :P
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20:38:38 <monochrom> Cocartes says: coproduct ergo sum. >:)
20:40:16 <ncf> is that the guy cocartesian fibrations are named after?
20:40:16 <ystael> that's terrible
20:44:59 <Hecate> haha
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20:55:27 danse-nr3 would laugh if she had understood anything. Nods with confidence though
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21:10:07 <Inst> why do we have this?
21:10:09 <Inst> https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/hk15ub/do_not_recommend_the_genuine_sieve_of/
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21:12:31 <sprout> lol
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21:47:21 <Guestc127> Here to gt som swag...
21:48:45 <Rembane> Inst: I don't follow. Do you have a reaction in more words?
21:49:31 <Guestc127> Hi , do you follow Rust's Hakari?
21:49:40 <Rembane> Not at all. What is it?
21:50:12 <danse-nr3> i don't follow either Inst
21:50:16 <Guestc127> nvm lol, what can i see in this chat?
21:50:18 <Inst> i'm just annoyed that an array-using algorithm is faster than o'neill sieve
21:50:27 <danse-nr3> go trolling elsewhere Guestc127
21:51:05 <Rembane> Inst: Got it. Is this the moment when you get annoyed enough to make o'neill's algorithm faster?
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21:53:18 <Inst> i'm just looking through data.array now, i was hoping someone would have told me the optimization work on o'neill sieve was done already
21:57:47 <Rembane> But no such luck?
22:00:41 <mauke> Guestc127: English text, mostly. And Haskell code
22:00:54 <mauke> (Haskell is a programming language)
22:02:26 <c_wraith> Inst: didn't her sieve use infinite data structures? Data.Array is not so good at that.
22:02:39 <Inst> yeah, i saw
22:03:00 <monochrom> IIUC array vs o'neil's is a trade-off between fixing a bound upfront and growable. Of course with the extra power in the latter somes extra cost.
22:04:05 <c_wraith> I actually re-implemented a bunch of her stuff at some point. The wheel logic was surprisingly slow. I suspect I did it wrong.
22:04:28 <c_wraith> (I mean, it got the right results, but I suspect my implementation did way too much work)
22:04:37 <monochrom> "I am annoyed at how if you impose limitations you can do it faster" is not particularly news, exciting, or exciting news.
22:04:49 <Guestc127> I just found this forum,promise im not a troll, ill just look in to learn something,sorry
22:04:56 <Rembane> monochrom: Sounds axiomatic
22:05:23 <mauke> Guestc127: how did you find us? :-)
22:05:40 <monochrom> Instead, I am annoyed at how people are annoyed at axiomatic tautologies. >:)
22:06:29 <Guestc127> !Travis! on github and IPFS
22:08:07 <Guestc127> how are you today?
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22:09:02 <monochrom> Speaking of which people who scaremonger about parser combinator inefficiency keep forgetting that they far exceed CFG while the oh-so-faster-than-thou parser generators are "linear time" only because they can only do LL(k) or at most LALR.
22:09:20 <monochrom> Oh and also the former can do ambiguous grammars, the latter can't.
22:09:49 <monochrom> Even with exactly CFG you're looking at cubic time at the minimum.
22:10:33 <Rembane> That's a lot of time
22:10:40 <c_wraith> mostly I don't care because I'm parsing data without large structures.
22:10:53 <c_wraith> So I'd rather have easy to use than fast.
22:11:25 <c_wraith> So I also dislike parsec-style non-backtracking
22:11:39 <monochrom> I'm going to bring it to the meta level and write a post "stop telling beginners what to do" :)
22:11:44 <c_wraith> let me write grammars the easy way, instead of factoring out all backtracking
22:11:58 <Rembane> "Telling beginners what to do considered harmful."
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22:12:13 <c_wraith> "whatever you do, do not install GHC"
22:12:18 <Rembane> c_wraith: What's the easy way to write grammars in your opinion?
22:12:54 <c_wraith> Rembane: anything where (a <|> b) <> c is the same as (a <> c) <|> (b <> c)
22:13:20 <c_wraith> those aren't interchangeable in parsec-like systems
22:13:38 <Rembane> c_wraith: Cool, that seems like a great quality of life improvement
22:14:02 <c_wraith> I mostly try to use Earley, but it has some issues of its own.
22:14:48 <c_wraith> (like depending on parser-combinators to provide utilities, but some of them are infinite loops with Earley)
22:15:02 <Rembane> FUN! :D
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22:15:29 <c_wraith> I think those qualify as bugs in parser-combinators, but I haven't managed to get them to fix the last one I ran into
22:17:41 <Inst> hmmm, okay, time to O2?
22:17:44 <c_wraith> huh. I've got some free time. I think I should just go through parser-combinators and fix all the cases where it does that. Then I can submit a fix, not just a bug report.
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22:17:56 <Inst> or maybe drag out bodigrim's tastybench
22:18:22 <Rembane> c_wraith: Yes!
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22:24:50 <c_wraith> I can understand why parser-combinators have implementations that loop infinitely with Earley. It's so tempting to use direct recursion and it works with other parsers. But Earley needs to explicitly break recursion so it can build the state table. That means all recursion must be done via some/many, as those take care of breaking the recursion.
22:30:13 <monochrom> That will be a bug at the level of API design. It's much more meta.
22:31:47 <c_wraith> It's definitely the case that Earley adds requirements to its API that other parsers don't.
22:32:29 <mauke> does haskell have marpa bindings?
22:33:52 <c_wraith> huh, I hadn't heard of marpa. That sounds cool.
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22:39:20 <danse-nr3> https://hackage.haskell.org/packages/search?terms=marpa no results
22:39:53 <danse-nr3> huh i think we have it here don't we?
22:39:56 <danse-nr3> @hackage marpa
22:39:57 <lambdabot> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/marpa
22:40:04 <danse-nr3> hmm
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22:56:42 <dibblego> @type \r x -> mempty & r .~ x -- does this function already exist?
22:56:43 <lambdabot> Monoid s => ASetter s b1 a b2 -> b2 -> b1
23:01:10 <geekosaur> keep in mind that "@hackage" just puts a hackage url on a string; it does not check to see if the result is valid
23:01:21 <geekosaur> @hackage #foo
23:01:21 <lambdabot> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/#foo
23:01:49 <danse-nr3> haha i noticed. Been wondering whether having a /search?terms=<foo> template would be more useful
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23:02:16 <danse-nr3> :t (.~)
23:02:17 <lambdabot> ASetter s t a b -> b -> s -> t
23:06:44 <mauke> :t \r x -> set r x mempty
23:06:46 <lambdabot> Monoid s => ASetter s t a b -> b -> t
23:07:15 <mauke> @pl \r x -> set r x mempty
23:07:15 <lambdabot> flip flip mempty . set
23:09:23 <EvanR> a case for keyword arguments!
23:09:47 <danse-nr3> -.-
23:09:49 <EvanR> set(3rd=mempry)
23:09:56 <EvanR> lol
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23:17:59 <dibblego> u guyz
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23:25:47 <dibblego> I was thinking something like (.~~)
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23:32:04 <jackdk> dibblego: I don't believe this exists, probably because it doesn't compose that well if you want to apply multiple things to a `mempty`. Maybe you can collect a list of setters, compose them all, and apply to `mempty`?
23:40:34 <dibblego> hm, I was thinking changing something like: (mempty & r1 .~ x1 & r2 .~ x2) to (r1 .~~ x1 & r2 .~ x2)
23:42:32 <ncf> is this about building maps
23:42:46 <dibblego> no
23:45:01 <jackdk> I was thinking something like `onMempty [r1 .~ x1, r2 .~ x2]` but that fails to work if the setters change type
23:55:46 <dibblego> no worries, I just wrote it and used it
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All times are in UTC on 2024-07-25.