Logs on 2024-08-02 (liberachat/#haskell)
| 00:02:37 | <sprout> | how to make sense of vi commands |
| 00:02:57 | → | gentauro joins (~gentauro@user/gentauro) |
| 00:03:48 | <yangby> | `q2 |
| 00:03:59 | <yangby> | `q1ggjjjjjjjjjjjAi,VerifyError}fUi{xw |
| 00:04:05 | <sprout> | geekosaur: ping |
| 00:05:03 | <geekosaur> | bah |
| 00:05:06 | ChanServ | sets mode +o geekosaur |
| 00:05:12 | geekosaur | sets mode +q yangby!*@* |
| 00:05:34 | geekosaur | sets mode -o geekosaur |
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| 00:35:26 | ChanServ | sets mode +o litharge |
| 00:35:27 | litharge | sets mode -qo yangby!*@* litharge |
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| 01:01:11 | <yangby> | `q2 |
| 01:01:26 | <yangby> | jkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkjkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk |
| 01:01:38 | <yangby> | hjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjj |
| 01:02:08 | <yangby> | hkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkjjjjjkjjjjjjjk |
| 01:02:09 | ChanServ | sets mode +o dolio |
| 01:02:10 | dolio | sets mode +q yangby!*@* |
| 01:04:02 | dolio | sets mode -o dolio |
| 01:05:40 | <geekosaur> | still? |
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| 01:05:47 | <geekosaur> | that's like 45 minutes |
| 01:09:06 | <dolio> | This seems to be all they've ever said here. |
| 01:09:46 | <dolio> | So I wouldn't bet on it ever being anything else at this point. |
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| 01:19:50 | <Axman6> | My money's on a cat on the keyboard |
| 01:20:15 | <dolio> | Dunno, seems unlikely with the weird shell commands involving nicknames in channel. |
| 01:21:26 | <dolio> | Also most of the other stuff looks like someone piping their vim session to irc. |
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| 01:25:08 | <dolio> | Someone who needs to learn to navigate better than hjkl. :þ |
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| 01:33:02 | ChanServ | sets mode +o litharge |
| 01:33:03 | litharge | sets mode -qo yangby!*@* litharge |
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| 01:38:33 | <monochrom> | jackdk: If I'm not too late, "forall b. g b -> h b" is a Haskell way to say "natural transformation from g to h". |
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| 01:47:42 | <monochrom> | Personal story: When I was learning free monads, I came across the obligatory "foldFree :: (Functor f, Monad m) => (forall x. f x -> m x) -> Free f a -> m a". I coded it up in two ways, and both "obviously" behave the same, but for my life I couldn't prove that they're equal, until... |
| 01:48:42 | <monochrom> | five years later I looked at it again and suddenly recalled "hey the 1st arg is a natural transformation! how did I miss that last time?!" so I had one extra commutative law and it bridged the gap and I finished the proof. :) |
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| 01:57:36 | <jackdk> | monochrom: Thank you. I'm familiar with rank-2 types and what `forall x. f x -> g x` used for in the Haskell world, but I'm unclear why tomsmeding needed a function that powerful when his `a` was participating in the types already. He had `forall g h a. (forall b. g b -> h b) -> f g a -> f h a` and the common `FFunctor`/`FunctorB`/`Functor1` classes tend not to have an `a` in final position. |
| 01:57:58 | <jackdk> | Unless the point here was that his type was functorial in the first arg? |
| 01:58:34 | <jackdk> | Like what you'd need if you were hoisting the `f` in a `Free f a`, I suppose? |
| 02:05:44 | <Lears> | If you prefer, you can write that as `g ~> h -> f g ~> f h`. |
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| 02:06:53 | <Lears> | A functor on functors should have kind `(Type -> Type) -> Type -> Type`, so the last parameter is necessary if that's what you want. |
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| 02:08:39 | <Lears> | This kind of functor-functor is used in the context of higher-order algebraic effects, for example. |
| 02:11:30 | <Lears> | See: A Framework for Higher-Order Effects & Handlers |
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| 02:14:26 | <Lears> | I've also used it in the context of recursion schemes: https://gist.github.com/LSLeary/98763e62f6fe4a2d629f74b38b9f2e45 |
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| 02:35:54 | <jackdk> | Yeah, that makes sense. |
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| 04:11:48 | <haskellbridge> | <aaron> jackdk: I think I found a decent solution to the laziness issues. Just need to get around to implementing it.. |
| 04:12:41 | <haskellbridge> | <aaron> and I'll probably have to convince edwardk to like it |
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| 04:26:36 | <jackdk> | aaron: That's very exciting, I look forward to seeing it when it's ready. |
| 04:28:44 | Axman6 | is curious what the laziness issue is |
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| 04:29:46 | <haskellbridge> | <aaron> https://github.com/ekmett/distributive/issues/69 |
| 04:29:52 | <haskellbridge> | <aaron> Axman6: ^ |
| 04:41:51 | <haskellbridge> | <aaron> Think I want to solve it by adding a method to FFunctor which is ftraverse specialized to Solo: "ftraverseSolo :: (forall a. f a -> Solo (g a)) -> w f -> Solo (w g)" (or rather, a GND-compatible version of that). That makes it possible to get the required strictness, and I convinced myself it's not too ad-hoc since it's equivalent to adding "coap".. |
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| 05:06:05 | zinc.libera.chat | sets mode +v lambdabot |
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| 09:18:06 | <Unicorn_Princess> | i've got a 3.3GB json file that Aeson chokes on, eating up all my RAM and swap before crashing OOM. is there some simple way of getting it to not construct the whole thing in memory at once? |
| 09:18:55 | <Unicorn_Princess> | my use-case is ingest json -> write out some data derived from it to a different file |
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| 09:25:32 | <Unicorn_Princess> | i've noticed Aeson will fail parsing invalid json if there's, like, a comma missing at the end, which makes me think i won't be able to get it to do any kinda streaming that doesn't involve loading the whole thing into memory at once |
| 09:26:32 | <Unicorn_Princess> | hope you guys won't be mad if i do this in rust instead :S |
| 09:37:35 | haskellbridge | sm raises the alarm! |
| 09:39:33 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> I see https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/rpmjz6/ann_conduitaeson_parsing_large_or_even_infinite, |
| 09:39:33 | <haskellbridge> | ... long message truncated: https://kf8nh.com/_matrix/media/v3/download/kf8nh.com/IGJpPVfOUtrJPLeVnXuiBZER (3 lines) |
| 09:40:05 | <Unicorn_Princess> | ooh, thanks! |
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| 09:42:02 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> and maybe maerwald 's https://hasufell.github.io/posts/2021-10-22-conduit-to-streamly.html also handles json ? not sure |
| 09:45:06 | <Unicorn_Princess> | alas i may go with rust in spite of this. conduit-aeson says it only streams the top-level objects, alas here everything is nested in a dict. there's ways to get around that, i guess, but at that point going with rust will be simpler, i think. we'll see, after lunch! |
| 09:48:46 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> that's an excellent blog post, for the record (and the discussion is also worth reading) |
| 09:49:14 | <Unicorn_Princess> | the conduit-to-streamly one? |
| 09:49:20 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> yup |
| 09:49:31 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> I mean generally, not for you specifically |
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| 09:51:31 | Unicorn_Princess | runs away before learning too much category theory |
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| 10:22:41 | <jackdk> | I would look at the new tokeniser in Aeson ( https://hackage.haskell.org/package/aeson-2.2.3.0/docs/Data-Aeson-Decoding-Tokens.html ) and figure out if you can parse without materialising an AST in-memory. I used it in https://github.com/bellroy/hs-botocore . https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hw-json-simd may also be applicable here, if you can get it to build |
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| 10:40:05 | <smiesner> | hi, which would you say is better or less worse fwiw? https://paste.tomsmeding.com/LJUR3F5f |
| 10:40:26 | <danse-nr3> | Unicorn_Princess: rust is not magic either. If you don't encode the memory usage policy in your program, it might me more efficient but it will still not stream memory |
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| 11:01:27 | <Unicorn_Princess> | danse-nr3, i know i know, i just feel a lot more comfortable optimizing rust. plus i figure it should be more efficient with memory in the first place, so i have a good chance i won't have to optimize anything |
| 11:08:42 | <danse-nr3> | as i wrote, efficient doesn't fix an architectural flaw. Loading a whole file in mem can be done more or less efficient, but that's still not streaming |
| 11:08:56 | <danse-nr3> | *efficiently |
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| 11:13:56 | <Unicorn_Princess> | hey so long as it saves me from getting into the weeds of streaming json parsing, i'll take it |
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| 11:15:32 | danse-nr3 | can't clearly express properly |
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| 11:17:26 | <Lears> | Unicorn_Princess: I think their point was that it /won't/. If you need streaming, you need streaming full-stop---regardless of language. |
| 11:19:20 | <danse-nr3> | 'cause 3G in memory is not usually desired, and if you work with that you will likely stumble upon even bigger sizes |
| 11:21:55 | <Unicorn_Princess> | yes but i don't think i do need streaming. this is a rather one-time-parse, not something that will be ingesting json regularly |
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| 11:27:55 | <danse-nr3> | v |
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| 11:39:23 | <Unicorn_Princess> | no such luck. looks like i'll have to make the json one level shallower with text-processing hacks, to avail myself of streaming |
| 11:39:57 | <Unicorn_Princess> | oh well ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ |
| 11:40:09 | <mauke> | Unicorn_Princess: last time I needed that, I used https://hackage.haskell.org/package/json-stream-0.4.5.3/docs/Data-JsonStream-Parser.html |
| 11:40:12 | <mauke> | worked great |
| 11:42:52 | <mauke> | I had a big object containing a (very long) array of objects, some of whose fields I was interested in |
| 11:43:23 | <mauke> | I wrote a parser for extracting just those fields and fed it with chunks of a lazy bytestring |
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| 12:06:12 | <Unicorn_Princess> | ooh, i'll give it a try, thanks mauke! |
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| 14:34:53 | <andrewboltachev> | Hi. Does anyone know where to look for non-greedy regexp/context-free algorithm? I've implemented greedy version by intuition here https://github.com/andrewboltachev/matcher/blob/master/src/Logicore/Matcher/Core.hs#L499 |
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| 14:48:17 | <mauke> | I don't know, but non-greedy just means trying alternatives in the other order |
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| 17:11:24 | <danse-nr3> | @hoogle '(a -> b -> b) -> m a -> b -> b' |
| 17:11:25 | <lambdabot> | No results found |
| 17:13:11 | <EvanR> | that seems unlikely to be realized, because having an m a doesn't mean you can get an a |
| 17:13:38 | <EvanR> | exists m a where you can't possibly get an a |
| 17:14:14 | <danse-nr3> | hmm good point |
| 17:14:22 | <EvanR> | but |
| 17:14:33 | <danse-nr3> | probably looking for foldr |
| 17:14:56 | <EvanR> | :t \f m x -> x :: (a -> b -> b) -> m a -> b -> b |
| 17:14:57 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 17:14:57 | <lambdabot> | • Couldn't match expected type ‘(a1 -> b1 -> b1) |
| 17:14:58 | <lambdabot> | -> m1 a1 -> b1 -> b1’ |
| 17:15:00 | <danse-nr3> | yeah i was looking to return b untouched in that case |
| 17:15:40 | <EvanR> | yeah I'm so wrong because of that |
| 17:15:55 | <danse-nr3> | :t \f m b -> maybe b (f b) m |
| 17:15:56 | <lambdabot> | (t -> a -> t) -> Maybe a -> t -> t |
| 17:17:14 | <danse-nr3> | :t \f m b -> fromMaybe b $ f b <$> m |
| 17:17:15 | <lambdabot> | (t -> a -> t) -> Maybe a -> t -> t |
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| 17:17:59 | <danse-nr3> | :t \f m b -> pure b <|> (f b <$> m) |
| 17:18:00 | <lambdabot> | Alternative f => (t -> a -> t) -> f a -> t -> f t |
| 17:18:35 | <danse-nr3> | @hoogle '(t -> a -> t) -> f a -> t -> f t' |
| 17:18:36 | <lambdabot> | No results found |
| 17:19:14 | <danse-nr3> | :t foldl |
| 17:19:15 | <lambdabot> | Foldable t => (b -> a -> b) -> b -> t a -> b |
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| 18:40:25 | <hololeap> | why doesn't this need DeriveTraversable on ghc-9.6? I'm running it with runghc-9.6.5 with no errors: https://bpa.st/EZKA |
| 18:41:31 | <hololeap> | line 59 |
| 18:43:31 | <ncf> | https://ghc.gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/doc/users_guide/exts/deriving_extra.html#extension-DeriveTraversable |
| 18:43:35 | <ncf> | https://ghc.gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/doc/users_guide/exts/control.html#extension-GHC2021 |
| 18:45:02 | <hololeap> | is GHC2021 turned on by default? |
| 18:45:29 | <monochrom> | Yes if you use GHC directly. |
| 18:46:14 | <hololeap> | I see. do you happen to know what ghc version introduced that? |
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| 18:47:40 | <geekosaur> | same version that introduced GHC2021, I think 9.2 |
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| 18:49:08 | <hololeap> | huh, I must have never run into this before then. thanks |
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| 20:53:04 | <Enrico63> | Hi, I still haven't managed to load my project (https://codeberg.org/Aster89/xnobar) on hackage. Here's the latest build error: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/xnobar-0.0.0.1/reports/2; what is it even telling me? |
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| 21:01:19 | × | kimiamania quits (~65804703@user/kimiamania) (Quit: PegeLinux) |
| 21:01:32 | <ZharMeny> | Enrico63: i think xnobar requires the base package of 4.19.1 or newer, but the machine it is being built on has 4.18.1 installed and it is not allowed to upgrade |
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| 21:02:31 | <geekosaur> | which means your ghc is too old, yes |
| 21:02:48 | <geekosaur> | base 4.19 is ghc 9.8 |
| 21:03:36 | <ZharMeny> | the link say: "Compiler ghc-9.6.3" |
| 21:03:43 | <ZharMeny> | says* |
| 21:04:26 | <Enrico63> | geekosaur, I don't follow. The machine (used by hackage, not mine, I understand) has 4.18.1, and I provided a lower bound of 4.19.1. How my ghc too old? |
| 21:05:02 | <geekosaur> | hackage's ghc is too old in that case |
| 21:05:14 | <geekosaur> | it doesn't have ghc 9.8, so hackage won't be able to build it |
| 21:05:21 | <Enrico63> | oh, ok |
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| 21:07:32 | <Enrico63> | Ok, updated metadata and triggered rebuild |
| 21:08:36 | <Enrico63> | Thanks, let's see if it works! :) |
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| 21:16:32 | <ZharMeny> | another issue pops up! |
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All times are in UTC on 2024-08-02.