Logs on 2024-08-06 (liberachat/#haskell)
| 00:02:00 | <Inst> | dolio: insofar as you can't access a file on a filesystem with blocking IO twice unless the data's completely consumed; readFile' would close the handle, readFile wouldn't until the resource's exhausted |
| 00:02:32 | <Inst> | so i mean my conceptual model is iteratee IO > strict IO > lazy IO |
| 00:03:00 | <Inst> | although tbh I guess you can't do it with iteratee / streaming either |
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| 00:49:48 | <haskellbridge> | <thirdofmay18081814goya> anyone got a good set of exercises about monad transformers with solutions? |
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| 00:52:05 | <jackdk> | https://github.com/qfpl/applied-fp-course/blob/master/bonus/mtl.md |
| 00:52:45 | <jackdk> | http://jackkelly.name/wiki/haskell/learning.html is where I keep my list of recommended resources |
| 00:52:48 | <jackdk> | No solutions though |
| 00:53:35 | <jackdk> | Actually wait, there are. In the <details> tags |
| 00:56:34 | <haskellbridge> | <thirdofmay18081814goya> great ty!! |
| 01:05:32 | <Inst> | Am I correct if I characterize the FP divide from mainstream programming as one between proof-based mathematics and algorithmic mathematics? |
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| 01:07:16 | <Inst> | actually, probably a really bad topic of conversation, I'll drop it |
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| 01:25:17 | <JuanDaugherty> | no that's a totally whack take |
| 01:25:42 | <JuanDaugherty> | mainframe isn a thing to be in opposition to FP |
| 01:25:58 | <JuanDaugherty> | and ofc the first FP was on mainframes cause that's all there was |
| 01:26:43 | <geekosaur> | uh, where did mainframes come into it? |
| 01:26:56 | <geekosaur> | main stream |
| 01:27:13 | <Inst> | it's a dumb thought that's better drpped into off-topic |
| 01:27:18 | <JuanDaugherty> | and when i said (in #politics) that it's more permissive here, I meant nobody but me is likely to respond like that |
| 01:27:46 | <JuanDaugherty> | (##politics) |
| 01:28:31 | <JuanDaugherty> | oh my bad i read mainframe |
| 01:29:00 | <JuanDaugherty> | but it's still wrongheaded |
| 01:29:13 | <JuanDaugherty> | mainstream means what? |
| 01:29:24 | <Inst> | juandaughterty: if you want to continue, try #haskell-offtopic |
| 01:29:27 | <JuanDaugherty> | the bulk of commercial IT activity? |
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| 15:11:08 | <curious-user> | hi, what modern *not abandoned* web frameworks(micro is fine too) are there nowadays? |
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| 15:15:04 | <ZharMeny> | curious-user: you got to narrow down what 'web framework' means first |
| 15:18:27 | <curious-user> | ZharMeny: things like yesod or servant |
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| 15:26:00 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> yesod, servant, IHP are the big ones |
| 15:26:09 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> yesod, servant, IHP are the big ones |
| 15:26:23 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> miso may also be maintained |
| 15:26:35 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> lots of smaller ones findable on hackage |
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| 15:29:25 | <curious-user> | cool, thank you |
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| 16:02:53 | <dmj`> | sm: miso is "maintained" :P |
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| 16:12:04 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> 👍🏻 |
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| 17:29:29 | <monochrom> | I ran into students in another class and they chose to use Haskell for the web app they are making for that class, and I got curious and asked "which library do you use" and the answer is IHP "because it's the first thing on the Haskell wiki page about web apps" :) |
| 17:29:58 | <danse-nr3> | heh good luck with that attitude |
| 17:32:29 | <monochrom> | I once used wai, but my web app was an extremely minimal toy. ("count how many times self is visited") |
| 17:33:06 | <monochrom> | even "but only since the server was (re)started" |
| 17:33:30 | <danse-nr3> | there's mainly the microframeworks and the "battery included" attempts |
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| 17:33:59 | <danse-nr3> | if one goes for a microframework, that's not that far from what servant does |
| 17:34:19 | <monochrom> | And I wrote it because, only because, someone invited me to give a talk on docker, so I wanted a dumb web app to be run in docker as a simple example. :) |
| 17:35:32 | <monochrom> | I still want to write a web app that I will actually use. An exam timer with space for announcing errata. |
| 17:36:24 | <danse-nr3> | makes sense. Now, beyond proofs of concepts, i never experienced in haskell what i experienced with other langs when it comes to web dev... therefore i haven't been doing much web dev in past years |
| 17:37:10 | <danse-nr3> | things may change with wasm |
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| 18:00:23 | <spew> | I'm just learning haskell and trying to make what I write as idiomatic as I can. I just wrote a function twoSum that finds indices that sum to a particular number. Would someone please let me know what could be done more idiomatically or any other interesting ways to implement it? Thank you! https://paste.tomsmeding.com/JJdDPwHU |
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| 18:02:57 | <Inst> | the function name "go" is more common these days than having function + apostrophe (prime) as the worker in a worker wrapper pattern |
| 18:03:22 | <spew> | Inst: thank you that's very helpful |
| 18:04:12 | <Inst> | add can also be put on the same level as twoSum', to avoid excessive nesting of wheres |
| 18:04:57 | <Inst> | if you are going to nest it, though, you can remove the i |
| 18:05:40 | <Inst> | yoou're technically shadowing a binding in the outer scope anyways |
| 18:07:43 | <spew> | I think I prefer less nesting: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/iMLgXTar |
| 18:09:27 | <Inst> | could add a space in the where clause |
| 18:09:37 | <Inst> | erm, a newline to separate the function definitions |
| 18:10:02 | <spew> | Inst: this is all very helpful, thank you for looking |
| 18:10:38 | <zzz> | spew: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/60681248/is-this-idiomatic-haskell-two-sum-question |
| 18:10:42 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> wow I feel for those students facing IHP setup |
| 18:10:44 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> unless they're already nix zealots |
| 18:12:04 | <spew> | zzz: someone somewhere on stackoverflow has done every stupid thing |
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| 18:13:54 | <ZharMeny> | if you can imagine doing something stupid then there's a stackoverflow question about it |
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| 18:19:12 | <probie> | When in doubt, use foldr (not actually idiomatic here) |
| 18:19:17 | <probie> | > (\k xs -> foldr (\(n, ix) cont m -> [(iy, ix) | iy <- M.findWithDefault [] (k - n) m] ++ cont (M.alter (Just [ix] <>) n m)) (const []) (zip xs [0::Int ..]) mempty) 5 [1, 3, 6, -1, 3, 2] |
| 18:19:18 | <lambdabot> | [(2,3),(4,5),(1,5)] |
| 18:21:18 | <probie> | > Just [5 :: Int, 6, 7] <> Just [8] <> Nothing <> Just [9, 10] -- low hanging fruit; no need for `add` |
| 18:21:19 | <lambdabot> | Just [5,6,7,8,9,10] |
| 18:22:11 | <probie> | `IntMap.alter (Just [i] <>) x seen` does the job |
| 18:23:22 | <probie> | actually, probably use `(<> Just [i])` so you get better ordering |
| 18:25:37 | <spew> | probie: that is incredibly helpful, thank you |
| 18:25:47 | <spew> | I'm very curious about various ways to implement things |
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| 22:45:27 | <haskellbridge> | <Jade> is this not a valid instance for `Monad (Lift f)`? |
| 22:45:27 | <haskellbridge> | ... long message truncated: https://kf8nh.com/_matrix/media/v3/download/kf8nh.com/iXGiGCXhRYGAiRsbtVFzeGfT (3 lines) |
| 23:03:31 | <ncf> | it is lawful i'm pretty sure |
| 23:03:57 | <ncf> | i was considering something like this as a categorification of Semigroup m => Monoid (Maybe m) at some point |
| 23:04:50 | <ncf> | (just like Maybe a = a + 1, Lift f = f + 1 where 1 is the identity functor) |
| 23:05:39 | <ncf> | you'd think that you'd only need the functor equivalent of Semigroup (which is Bind), but this is actually not enough because general monads don't commute with coproducts |
| 23:06:20 | <ncf> | so you need something like a generalised join : f (a + f a) → f a, or just give up and ask for Monad f |
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| 23:32:44 | <halloy5409> | @t foldr |
| 23:32:44 | <lambdabot> | Maybe you meant: tell thank you thanks thesaurus thx tic-tac-toe ticker time todo todo-add todo-delete type v @ ? . |
| 23:33:45 | <halloy5409> | @type map |
| 23:33:46 | <lambdabot> | (a -> b) -> [a] -> [b] |
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| 23:34:52 | <halloy5409> | > foldr (\x xs -> xs ++ [x]) [] [1,2,3,4,5] |
| 23:34:53 | <lambdabot> | [5,4,3,2,1] |
| 23:35:25 | <halloy5409> | @list |
| 23:35:25 | <lambdabot> | What module? Try @listmodules for some ideas. |
| 23:35:35 | <halloy5409> | @list,odules |
| 23:35:35 | <lambdabot> | activity base bf check compose dice dict djinn dummy elite eval filter free fresh haddock help hoogle instances irc karma localtime metar more oeis offlineRC pl pointful poll pretty quote search |
| 23:35:35 | <lambdabot> | seen slap source spell system tell ticker todo topic type undo unlambda unmtl version where |
| 23:35:44 | <halloy5409> | @help |
| 23:35:44 | <lambdabot> | help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands |
| 23:35:51 | <halloy5409> | @help foldr |
| 23:35:51 | <lambdabot> | help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands |
| 23:36:17 | <halloy5409> | @listmodules |
| 23:36:17 | <lambdabot> | activity base bf check compose dice dict djinn dummy elite eval filter free fresh haddock help hoogle instances irc karma localtime metar more oeis offlineRC pl pointful poll pretty quote search |
| 23:36:17 | <lambdabot> | seen slap source spell system tell ticker todo topic type undo unlambda unmtl version where |
| 23:36:28 | <halloy5409> | > foldr |
| 23:36:30 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 23:36:30 | <lambdabot> | • No instance for (Typeable a0) |
| 23:36:30 | <lambdabot> | arising from a use of ‘show_M77240290220706789158’ |
| 23:36:42 | <halloy5409> | ? |
| 23:36:48 | <halloy5409> | ?help |
| 23:36:48 | <lambdabot> | help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands |
| 23:36:53 | <halloy5409> | help foldr |
| 23:38:40 | <halloy5409> | > can someone please tell me how can i tell lambdabot to give me all the srtuct of the execution of foldr? not the result itself, but all the struct with the paren's |
| 23:38:41 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:79: error: parse error on input ‘of’ |
| 23:38:51 | <halloy5409> | can someone please tell me how can i tell lambdabot to give me all the srtuct of the execution of foldr? not the result itself, but all the struct with the paren's |
| 23:40:08 | <halloy5409> | > foldr (+) 0 [1,2,3,4] |
| 23:40:10 | <lambdabot> | 10 |
| 23:40:30 | <geekosaur> | > foldr f z [a,b,c] |
| 23:40:31 | <lambdabot> | f a (f b (f c z)) |
| 23:40:42 | <geekosaur> | courtesy of debug-reflect |
| 23:41:24 | <geekosaur> | er, simple-reflect |
| 23:42:12 | <halloy5409> | @geekosaur thanks. can i get it in specific function also? for example how do i get the same result with: foldr (+) 0 [1,1,3] |
| 23:42:12 | <lambdabot> | Unknown command, try @list |
| 23:42:30 | <halloy5409> | geekosaur thanks. can i get it in specific function also? for example how do i get the same result with: foldr (+) 0 [1,1,3] |
| 23:43:23 | <halloy5409> | if i use specific function i get the result itself |
| 23:44:20 | halloy5409 | is now known as menash |
| 23:44:43 | <menash> | > foldr (+) 0 [1,2,3,4] |
| 23:44:44 | <lambdabot> | 10 |
| 23:44:57 | <geekosaur> | lambdabot doesn't do that. I think there's a website that does? |
| 23:45:36 | <menash> | i dont know. i would be happy to get a link to this website :-) |
| 23:46:43 | <menash> | > foldr f [] [1,2,3,4 where f = |
| 23:46:45 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:21: error: parse error on input ‘where’ |
| 23:47:07 | <menash> | > foldr f [] [1,2,3,4 where f x xs = xs ++ [x] |
| 23:47:08 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:21: error: parse error on input ‘where’ |
| 23:48:11 | <menash> | > f x xs = xs ++ [x] |
| 23:48:13 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:8: error: parse error on input ‘=’ |
| 23:48:37 | <geekosaur> | tried to find it, not succeeding. may have gone away years ago |
| 23:49:46 | <menash> | geekosaur thanks for the help :-) |
| 23:50:00 | <jackdk> | https://pbv.github.io/haskelite/site/index.html is the closest I'm aware of |
| 23:50:46 | <geekosaur> | no, years ago there was a site that specifically traced foldl and foldr |
| 23:51:31 | <jackdk> | Ah, well https://pbv.github.io/haskelite/site/folds.html shows `foldl`,`foldr`, and `foldl'` at least |
| 23:51:45 | <geekosaur> | menash, "> " is an expression evaluator, you can use let-in or you can use @let to add a global definition (which will go away when someone does @undef) |
| 23:53:19 | × | sawilagar quits (~sawilagar@user/sawilagar) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 23:53:23 | → | bitdex joins (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) |
| 23:55:44 | <menash> | this site is great. thank jackdk |
| 23:57:36 | <menash> | @let f x xs = xs ++ [x] |
| 23:57:37 | <lambdabot> | Defined. |
| 23:57:52 | <menash> | foldr f [] [1,2,3,4] |
| 23:58:11 | <menash> | > foldr f [] [1,2,3,4] |
| 23:58:12 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 23:58:13 | <lambdabot> | Ambiguous occurrence ‘f’ |
| 23:58:13 | <lambdabot> | It could refer to |
| 23:58:38 | × | Luj9 quits (~Luj@2a01:e0a:de4:a0e1:be24:11ff:febc:b5b5) (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)) |
| 23:58:58 | → | Luj9 joins (~Luj@2a01:e0a:de4:a0e1:be24:11ff:febc:b5b5) |
| 23:59:26 | <menash> | geekosaur i did @let f x xs = xs ++ [x] and then when i'm using f with foldr, i get error (ambiguous occurrence 'f') |
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