Logs on 2024-08-11 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 09:56:13 | <haskellbridge> | <iqubic (she/her)> Hmm... cabal repl failing for me... It's telling me /home/avi: createDirectory: permission denied (Permission denied) |
| 09:56:21 | <haskellbridge> | <iqubic (she/her)> This is odd, because I'm logged in as the use sophia right now, and this project is somewhere in sophia's home directory. I don't actually have any user named "avi" on this machine! |
| 10:01:03 | <mauke> | I've got nothing |
| 10:01:30 | <mauke> | random thought: 'env | grep avi' to see if anything "avi" related sticks out |
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| 10:06:03 | <haskellbridge> | <iqubic (she/her)> The only thing that comes out is that LS_COLORS has a specific value for "*.avi" files. |
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| 10:27:42 | <mauke> | same |
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| 14:11:46 | <raehik> | In general, is replacing intermediate data types like Either with CPS style going to be more performant? |
| 14:12:37 | <raehik> | as I understand, in both cases I'm relying on compiler optimizations. either I hope that it collapses the intermediate value (if possible), or I hope that it inlines things nicely |
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| 14:43:38 | <Leary> | raehik: Not like /Either/, no. In simple cases it shouldn't matter too much, but it will usually be a little slower. To see significant benefits, the intermediate should be something with more structure (like a list or a tree) and the computation such that you can leverage the fact of certain operations being cheaper in the alternate representation. |
| 14:43:58 | <Leary> | In short: only if it fuses. |
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| 14:47:00 | <raehik> | Leary: thanks. are you saying CPS will be consistently better (assuming implemented correctly)? |
| 14:48:17 | <raehik> | microbenchmarks are showing my intermediate Either approach is 10% faster than my CPS |
| 14:53:38 | <Leary> | No, I'm saying it will be better /only/ when the circumstances of the computation and your own know-how allow it. |
| 14:54:39 | <raehik> | ahh ok. might there be a hard "this one will usually optimize better"? |
| 14:55:32 | <raehik> | in my case I was previously constructing a very temporary Either in the middle of stuff tagged with INLINE. I replaced it with passing a continuation |
| 14:56:22 | <Leary> | "usually" isn't exactly hard. But as I said, the CPS form will usually be a little slower. |
| 14:57:25 | <Leary> | Default to data, bench CPS if you have a niggle. |
| 14:57:33 | <raehik> | cool thanks! I had been wrongly assuming how CPS works |
| 14:57:58 | <raehik> | (I thought it was like tail-call recursion, that GHC just "magically" knows how to optimize it fairly consistently) |
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| 15:43:35 | <jamesb> | hi, in the untyped lambda calculus is it possible to create a function that takes any term and returns the Church Boolean TRUE if that term is a bool, otherwise FALSE? |
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| 15:48:47 | <ncf> | jamesb: what do you mean by "is a bool"? |
| 15:49:01 | <ncf> | as in, is equal to λxy.x or λxy.y ? |
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| 15:51:09 | <monochrom> | There may be a halting problem hiding there. |
| 15:55:03 | <ncf> | this looks relevant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott%E2%80%93Curry_theorem |
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| 16:01:44 | <jamesb> | ncf: yeah that's right |
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| 16:05:41 | <jamesb> | This will return "true" if t is a Church bool: λt. (λx.(λy. t x y) true false) true false |
| 16:06:24 | <jamesb> | but since we've no idea about the structure of t I don't suppose it can work in general... |
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| 16:08:44 | <monochrom> | Does it work if I give it (λx. x x) (λx. x x) ? |
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| 16:17:07 | <ncf> | even assuming you mean "if" and not "only if", i don't think this works? https://f.monade.li/h5T-9O |
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| 16:20:44 | <jamesb> | ncf: I think you're right ty |
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| 16:30:41 | <haskellbridge> | <iqubic (she/her)> cabal repl failing for me... It's telling me /home/avi: createDirectory: permission denied (Permission denied) |
| 16:30:52 | <haskellbridge> | <iqubic (she/her)> This is odd, because I'm logged in as the use sophia right now, and this project is somewhere in sophia's home directory. I don't actually have any user named "avi" on this machine. |
| 16:31:10 | <haskellbridge> | <iqubic (she/her)> I used to have a user named "avi" on this system, but I'm trans, so when I changed my name, I created a new user, ran "mv /home/avi /home/sophia" and then deleted the old "avi" user. |
| 16:32:02 | <monochrom> | Something in $HOME/.cabal/config may have hardcoded /home/avi |
| 16:32:50 | <monochrom> | All cabal build products, in fact, have pathnames hardcoded. $HOME/.cabal/store has the lot of them. |
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| 16:36:57 | <haskellbridge> | <iqubic (she/her)> Is there a way I can fix this? |
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| 16:55:05 | <monochrom> | You can edit $HOME/.cabal/config |
| 16:56:01 | <haskellbridge> | <iqubic (she/her)> I don't have a that directory on my system. I'm using NixOS |
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| 16:57:13 | <geekosaur> | nixos wouldn't matter. XDG would: it might be ~/.config/cabal/config instead |
| 17:00:02 | <haskellbridge> | <iqubic (she/her)> That worked. |
| 17:01:54 | <geekosaur> | but you'll still have hardcoded paths in the store, including in binaries: editing won't work. nuke it and start over. (`~/.local/state/cabal/store`) |
| 17:02:16 | <geekosaur> | the stack version is under ~/.stack somewhere, but I don't know details; I'm not a stack user |
| 17:02:33 | <haskellbridge> | <iqubic (she/her)> I'm not a stack user either. |
| 17:02:45 | <geekosaur> | it will also contain hardcoded paths, because that's ultimately a ghc shortcoming |
| 17:03:06 | <geekosaur> | (which nix and stack both try to work around, whereas cabal just lives with it) |
| 17:03:11 | <haskellbridge> | <iqubic (she/her)> I don't have a ~/.stack config. |
| 17:03:17 | <haskellbridge> | <iqubic (she/her)> I don't use stack |
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| 19:56:04 | <fr33domlover> | o/ I'm trying to implement a variant type (without using Any), i.e. given a list of types xs::[Type], it contains a value of exactly one of these types. Here's one of my attempts: http://paste.debian.net/1326111/ |
| 19:56:48 | <fr33domlover> | But I'm unsure how to write a function that, gives a x::Type, returns (Maybe x) depending on which type is stored in the HVar |
| 19:57:53 | <fr33domlover> | Anyone has ideas? ^_^ I found a Variant type in the HList package but I can't figure out how to use it + it seems to require use of Tagged types which I don't need |
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| 20:07:47 | <Leary> | fr33domlover: Normally it's written recursively with `Here` and `There` constructors, in which case you can write the function with a typeclass. With this representation you'd need to impose `Typeable` constraints and do it dynamically. |
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| 20:13:59 | <fr33domlover> | Thanks Leary! That's the first approach I tried, I'll try it again :) [and I wonder if it's worth creating a package for this if I succeed] |
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| 20:34:13 | <[exa]> | fr33domlover: whats your usecase for this btw? |
| 20:36:22 | <halloy5409> | i need help. i'm trying to run this code https://paste.tomsmeding.com/aSx7OEzp in https://pbv.github.io/haskelite/site/ but i get there an error: "line 4,col 8: expecting operator", but i don't know why |
| 20:38:37 | <[exa]> | halloy5409: that points precisely to the patternmatch on (:) right? |
| 20:38:49 | <halloy5409> | this code just split a list in specific place into a tuple of two lists. it is working in GHCi without a problem. |
| 20:39:38 | <halloy5409> | [exa] it pointing if i'm not wrong to the '(' of the patttern match |
| 20:40:03 | <halloy5409> | i mean to (x:xs) |
| 20:40:36 | <halloy5409> | how can i fix this? |
| 20:41:01 | <ncf> | sounds like their evaluator is broken |
| 20:41:19 | <halloy5409> | it is great to know that in this time it is not my fault :-) |
| 20:41:25 | <ncf> | https://github.com/pbv/haskelite/issues/new |
| 20:41:51 | <[exa]> | halloy5409: interesting, looks like a haskelite issue to me as well |
| 20:41:58 | <halloy5409> | ncf: will do! |
| 20:42:18 | <[exa]> | OTOH there's no obvious reason why this shouldn't work, they have list patternmatching in working examples |
| 20:42:33 | <ncf> | the where clause is throwing it off for some reason |
| 20:44:01 | <ncf> | specifically the binding pattern in the where clause |
| 20:44:13 | <ncf> | guessing that's just not implemented |
| 20:45:02 | <Rembane> | I tried rewriting the code using let and that didn't work |
| 20:46:20 | <c_wraith> | possible that it doesn't have irrefutable pattern matches at all? |
| 20:47:16 | <c_wraith> | eh, that's probably not it. |
| 20:47:19 | <[exa]> | why does their insert-sort example work? I can't see any actual difference between your code and the example |
| 20:47:31 | <[exa]> | "actual" as in "syntax-wise" ofc :] |
| 20:47:48 | <[exa]> | ( https://pbv.github.io/haskelite/site/insert.html ) |
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| 20:50:07 | <[exa]> | mmmmhm |
| 20:51:45 | <[exa]> | halloy5409: looks like they don't really support in/where |
| 20:51:55 | <[exa]> | this works for me: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/EpwZfdRh |
| 20:52:29 | <monochrom> | But "f x = y where y = x" is accepted. :) |
| 20:52:52 | <[exa]> | yeah it's weird |
| 20:53:06 | <[exa]> | maybe let+patternmatch fails? |
| 20:53:17 | <c_wraith> | I modified the insert sort example to have a trivial let in it, and it failed. |
| 20:53:33 | <c_wraith> | I think the parser is messed up |
| 20:53:33 | <monochrom> | Generally pattern bindings e.g. (x,y) = (1,2) |
| 20:53:56 | <c_wraith> | I mean a *trivial* let. |
| 20:54:09 | <[exa]> | yeah, `...where (anything,y)=x` fails |
| 20:54:27 | <c_wraith> | > let in foo |
| 20:54:29 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 20:54:29 | <lambdabot> | • Variable not in scope: foo |
| 20:54:29 | <lambdabot> | • Perhaps you meant ‘for’ (imported from Data.Traversable) |
| 20:54:32 | <monochrom> | Oh, it doesn't even allow "f x = let y = x in y" :) |
| 20:54:40 | <c_wraith> | > let in 1 -- uh, this |
| 20:54:41 | <lambdabot> | 1 |
| 20:54:45 | <c_wraith> | that breaks it |
| 20:54:53 | <c_wraith> | the parser is just not right |
| 20:54:57 | <[exa]> | somehow I love to read that as "let the one in!!!" |
| 20:55:11 | <c_wraith> | > let in Right 1 |
| 20:55:12 | <lambdabot> | Right 1 |
| 20:55:18 | <c_wraith> | there, now it's a zombie movie |
| 20:56:07 | <[exa]> | lol |
| 20:57:04 | <halloy5409> | [exa]: thanks for the code example. i opened an issue. |
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| 20:59:36 | <monochrom> | https://pbv.github.io/haskelite/site/language.html documents not supporting pattern bindings. However, it documents supporting let too. |
| 21:00:03 | <c_wraith> | so it really doesn't support irrefutable pattern matches. But it's buggy on top of that. |
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| 21:50:25 | <Leary> | fr33domlover: Spoilers: <https://gist.github.com/LSLeary/544923ed7a2a1f72cdc0f213ebe013b5>. Also, I remembered the name of a package that provides these things: 'union'. |
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