Logs on 2024-08-21 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 10:04:22 | <lxsameer> | is it possible to provide `extra-lib-dirs` to cabal via env vars? |
| 10:08:56 | <int-e> | https://github.com/haskell/cabal/issues/2997#issuecomment-1923468505 seems relevant |
| 10:11:20 | <lxsameer> | cheers |
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| 10:38:24 | <albet70> | is [] a type? |
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| 10:38:44 | <int-e> | no. it's a type constructor |
| 10:38:45 | <dans23329> | :k ([]) |
| 10:38:46 | <lambdabot> | * -> * |
| 10:39:41 | <int-e> | (The answer may be different depending on context but I think that's the most useful one for programming in Haskell.) |
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| 10:40:42 | <albet70> | [] can be value? |
| 10:40:57 | <int-e> | that too |
| 10:41:23 | <int-e> | > [] :: [] Int |
| 10:41:25 | <lambdabot> | [] |
| 10:41:45 | <int-e> | data constructor and value to the left, type constructor to the right |
| 10:42:00 | <int-e> | [] Int would usually be written [Int]. |
| 10:42:53 | <int-e> | But since you asked about types I assumed you were not talking about values. |
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| 10:49:11 | <albet70> | what [[]]::? |
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| 10:55:03 | <albet70> | does haskell have union type? |
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| 10:56:39 | <Rembane> | albet70: Yes! |
| 10:56:46 | <Rembane> | albet70: data T = A | B | <C |
| 10:57:51 | <int-e> | @src Either |
| 10:57:52 | <lambdabot> | Source not found. My brain just exploded |
| 10:57:53 | <opqdonut> | haskell has tagged unions, no untagged unions (like typescript's |) |
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| 10:58:02 | <int-e> | data Either a b = Left a | Right b |
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| 11:00:32 | <int-e> | type Sum a b = forall r. (a -> r) -> (b -> r) -> r -- "tagless", scnr |
| 11:06:22 | <opqdonut> | for an untagged union most people want implicit casts from X to X|Y. I think that's the defining feature. |
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| 12:02:43 | <kuribas> | opqdonut: that's not even a cast. |
| 12:04:12 | <opqdonut> | yeah subsumption or something |
| 12:04:50 | <kuribas> | X is a subtype of X|Y |
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| 12:10:28 | <opqdonut> | yeah |
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| 13:22:28 | <haskellbridge> | <thirdofmay18081814goya> "do [1, 2]; (+); _;" produces the compiler statement that "_ :: [b]", but there's actually no expression that fits here. why is the compiler behaving like this? |
| 13:25:09 | <Rembane> | Because you can have many different types in a do-block? Try to desugar it and see if it makes more sense. |
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| 13:25:30 | <kuribas> | in idris I could write "{a : Type} -> Either (a = Int) (a = Float) => a -> b |
| 13:25:42 | <kuribas> | where a is basically Int | Float |
| 13:25:55 | <kuribas> | haskell has no disjunction constraints though AFAIK... |
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| 13:29:52 | <haskellbridge> | <thirdofmay18081814goya> Rembane: hm, but the statement "_ :: [b]" is wrong right? (or not even wrong, right?) |
| 13:32:14 | <haskellbridge> | <thirdofmay18081814goya> -(or not even wrong, right?) |
| 13:36:01 | <Rembane> | It doesn't know. It can be anything. |
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| 13:38:02 | <haskellbridge> | <thirdofmay18081814goya> Rembane: noted, ty |
| 13:39:28 | <Rembane> | No worries! |
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| 14:08:00 | <EvanR> | :t do [1, 2]; (+); [] |
| 14:08:02 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 14:08:02 | <lambdabot> | • Couldn't match expected type ‘[a0]’ |
| 14:08:02 | <lambdabot> | with actual type ‘a2 -> a2 -> a2’ |
| 14:09:01 | <EvanR> | :t do [1, 2]; (+); const id |
| 14:09:02 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 14:09:02 | <lambdabot> | • Couldn't match expected type ‘[a0]’ |
| 14:09:02 | <lambdabot> | with actual type ‘a3 -> a3 -> a3’ |
| 14:10:45 | <haskellbridge> | <thirdofmay18081814goya> EvanR: turns out I didn't read the top of the error message because my terminal is in a corner |
| 14:10:47 | <haskellbridge> | <thirdofmay18081814goya> it printed both the type error and the message |
| 14:10:58 | <haskellbridge> | <thirdofmay18081814goya> +hole |
| 14:11:08 | <EvanR> | there is a type error but now I'm wondering if there's still a way for the Num instance to be picked in such a way |
| 14:11:18 | <EvanR> | :t do [1,2]; (+); mempty |
| 14:11:19 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 14:11:19 | <lambdabot> | • Couldn't match expected type ‘[a0]’ |
| 14:11:19 | <lambdabot> | with actual type ‘a2 -> a2 -> a2’ |
| 14:12:01 | <EvanR> | :t do [1,2]; (+); 0 |
| 14:12:02 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 14:12:02 | <lambdabot> | • Couldn't match expected type ‘[a0]’ |
| 14:12:03 | <lambdabot> | with actual type ‘a2 -> a2 -> a2’ |
| 14:12:04 | <EvanR> | guess not |
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| 14:21:00 | <kuribas> | EvanR: how is that supposed to work? You have a list monad and then a function? |
| 14:21:26 | <kuribas> | :t [1, 2] >> (+) >> 0 |
| 14:21:27 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 14:21:27 | <lambdabot> | • Couldn't match expected type ‘[a0]’ |
| 14:21:28 | <lambdabot> | with actual type ‘a2 -> a2 -> a2’ |
| 14:22:44 | <EvanR> | yeah it can't work |
| 14:23:09 | <EvanR> | it's a list then it's a function, does not compute |
| 14:23:29 | <kuribas> | :t fromList |
| 14:23:30 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 14:23:30 | <lambdabot> | • Variable not in scope: fromList |
| 14:23:30 | <lambdabot> | • Perhaps you meant one of these: |
| 14:23:41 | <kuribas> | maybe with overloaded lists? |
| 14:23:51 | <kuribas> | But I am not sure what you want to do here... |
| 14:24:24 | <EvanR> | it was thirdofmay18081814goya's idea |
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| 14:32:44 | <haskellbridge> | <mauke> An implicit cast is like a verbal contract on paper |
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| 14:42:56 | <kuribas> | implicit casts exist, like in Python, and they suck. |
| 14:43:12 | <kuribas> | or javascript |
| 14:43:34 | <kuribas> | Where something gets cast to something else in unpredictable ways. |
| 14:43:39 | <kuribas> | like strings to int. |
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| 14:50:15 | <haskellbridge> | <mauke> It's an oxymoron |
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| 14:53:21 | <EvanR> | string to int that works is more like a conversion |
| 14:53:48 | <EvanR> | ok we're talking about implicit conversions |
| 14:54:11 | <EvanR> | when it's between integer types and the value is not changed, I can understand it |
| 14:54:54 | <EvanR> | in which case it's not much of a conversion |
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| 15:07:45 | <kuribas> | still a conversion on byte level |
| 15:07:57 | <kuribas> | you need to truncate the value. |
| 15:08:06 | <kuribas> | on "binary" level I mean. |
| 15:13:31 | <EvanR> | the binary level xD |
| 15:14:04 | <EvanR> | the computer is processing a stream of 0 and 1 like turing style |
| 15:17:31 | <kuribas> | the only "safe" conversion is from a shorter to a longer int or word. |
| 15:17:41 | <kuribas> | or Int to Integer. |
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| 15:28:55 | <EvanR> | or conversion from a longer int to a shorter int which can represent the value |
| 15:29:10 | <EvanR> | that it happens to be |
| 15:29:49 | <EvanR> | same for Double to Float |
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| 15:44:23 | <kuribas> | Double to Float is always a loss. |
| 15:44:54 | <kuribas> | Even if they represent the same number, there is a loss of precision. |
| 15:47:54 | <EvanR> | it's not always a loss |
| 15:48:06 | <EvanR> | there are values which can be represented by both types |
| 15:48:24 | <EvanR> | so sometimes the conversion is lossless |
| 15:50:19 | <EvanR> | > (2.75 :: Double) == realToFrac (realToFrac (2.75 :: Double) :: Float) :: Double |
| 15:50:20 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 15:50:20 | <lambdabot> | • Couldn't match expected type ‘Double’ with actual type ‘Bool’ |
| 15:50:20 | <lambdabot> | • In the expression: |
| 15:50:29 | <EvanR> | > (2.75 :: Double) == (realToFrac (realToFrac (2.75 :: Double) :: Float) :: Double) |
| 15:50:31 | <lambdabot> | True |
| 15:51:43 | <EvanR> | dyadic fractions in a certain range of Float play nice with each other and will convert both ways losslessly |
| 15:52:34 | <EvanR> | don't succumb to fear uncertainty and doubt about floats as if they randomly corrupt your values! |
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| 16:02:25 | <kuribas> | I mean 5.2 and 5.200 don't necessarily represent the same value, since they have different precision. |
| 16:02:40 | <kuribas> | So going from the second to the first is still a loss. |
| 16:03:22 | <kuribas> | 5.2 could mean 5.200, but also 5.230 |
| 16:03:40 | <kuribas> | So the conversion is still lossy in every case. |
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| 16:06:52 | <EvanR> | that's coming from a perspective that float values represent intervals but that's application specific not built in |
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| 16:08:35 | <EvanR> | assuming you know the precision in both sides, you don't lose that either, since it's not represented in the value anyway |
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| 16:10:29 | <EvanR> | converting from Bool1 = False | True to Bool2 = True | False and back also changes the type, and whatever semantics you think there are on the types, but you wouldn't call that a loss |
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| 16:11:22 | <kuribas> | Calling 5.2 equal to 5.200 is also arbitrary. |
| 16:11:58 | <EvanR> | uh HUH.... |
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| 16:13:11 | <kuribas> | Anyway, for the general case you don't now that your int will overflow, or that your floating point loses precision, which is why I would not consider it safe. |
| 16:13:30 | <kuribas> | safe for a subset is still unsafe IMO... |
| 16:14:01 | <kuribas> | Which is why I would argue for an explicit cast. |
| 16:14:01 | <EvanR> | yeah when you're writing a compiler you don't know anything about the values |
| 16:19:06 | <kuribas> | if you have dependent types or refinement types, you could add a constraint. |
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| 16:19:25 | <kuribas> | But in that case you could just as well use the narrower type... |
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| 16:22:22 | <EvanR> | nah we will stay with Int even when values are always like less than 100 xD |
| 16:22:32 | <EvanR> | and Bool is implemented as a 64bit word xD |
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| 16:23:02 | <kuribas> | common lisp "grows" the value when they overflow. |
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| 16:23:24 | <EvanR> | at runtime or |
| 16:23:52 | <kuribas> | yes |
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| 16:55:58 | <fr33domlover> | o/ I'm getting an error with GHC 9.6.6 when compiling a file that uses TH-generated dclarations: `panic! (the 'impossible' happened unfilled unbound-variable evidence` (I switched from LTS-18 to LTS-22 and from TH to typed TH) |
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| 16:56:41 | <fr33domlover> | Is there anything I can to fix that? I'm on latest LTS already... perhaps downgrade? "^_^ |
| 16:57:04 | <fr33domlover> | The source file (before the switch-to-typed-TH): https://codeberg.org/ForgeFed/Vervis/src/branch/main/src/Vervis/Migration/Entities.hs |
| 17:01:23 | <c_wraith> | any GHC error that says "the 'impossible' happened" indicates a GHC bug. I don't know anything about that one. In particular, I don't know if it's a regression that going to an older version will fix. (I also don't know if it's been reported yet) |
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| 17:01:54 | <c_wraith> | Oh. You just said it's a regression. :) |
| 17:02:02 | <fr33domlover> | I found this, looks like a hint - my TH splices are probably using some out-of-scope term https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/22655 |
| 17:02:35 | <c_wraith> | So it's probably a GCH bug caused by invalid TH? |
| 17:02:38 | <fr33domlover> | c_wraith: Well I did change my code too so couldn't tell if it's a regression, its my first time trying typed TH :p |
| 17:03:06 | <fr33domlover> | Yeah, good news is I'll try to figure out by myself what's out of scope and if I'm lucky the error will disappear ^_^ |
| 17:03:07 | <c_wraith> | It looks like this particular bug probably is a missing case that should be reporting an error |
| 17:03:33 | <c_wraith> | So the bug should be fixed, but probably the code is at fault and just not getting reported properly |
| 17:10:45 | <fr33domlover> | Yeah |
| 17:11:41 | <fr33domlover> | Well, there's already an open bug. And I think I might have fixed it on my side, GHC switched to error messages on modules that depend on the faulty one :) |
| 17:12:21 | <fr33domlover> | (Or is it stack/cabal, I suppose) |
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| 21:42:42 | <EvanR> | not really a haskell question but somewhere there is the statement "On Linux systems, executables which are statically linked to the C library cannot dynamically load shared libraries." How true is it |
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| 21:49:31 | <geekosaur> | false, I think. what is true is that if you statically link to glibc, you must ship the shared NSS and locale libraries for the glibc version you linked with your program |
| 21:49:47 | <geekosaur> | I think Solaris had that no-shared-libraries limitation |
| 21:50:57 | <int-e> | https://github.com/pfalcon/foreign-dlopen (which looks interesting) has some arguments for and against |
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| 21:51:32 | <int-e> | notably "shared library might use libc symbols for functions not included in your binary unless you make a fat binary that includes the whole libc" |
| 21:52:06 | <int-e> | (I realize that "fat" has another meaning, but I think it's an appropriate term here too) |
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| 21:53:44 | <geekosaur> | mm, right. the shared objects I indicated are exceptions because everything they need is already linked in if you're doing something that requires them |
| 21:54:54 | <geekosaur> | (Solaris and MacOS took solution #3: don't support static linking at all) |
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| 21:56:21 | <geekosaur> | (at least for libc) |
| 21:59:02 | <EvanR> | how can something on the internet be false, what balderdash |
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| 22:02:56 | <int-e> | It seems like a good rule of thumb? It's less of a "can't be done" and more of a "here be dragons". |
| 22:03:52 | <int-e> | What I'm trying to say is that if you're looking for falsehoods on the internet you can easily find more egregious examples :) |
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| 22:10:37 | <monochrom> | The Earth is flat. What's beyond the edges? Dragons. >:) |
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| 22:13:39 | <int-e> | also the Rimfall |
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| 22:14:11 | <EvanR> | destroys all your equipment and items when you go over it |
| 22:14:15 | <EvanR> | no corpserun |
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All times are in UTC on 2024-08-21.