Logs on 2024-08-24 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 09:39:31 | <rini> | <table> is still pretty good, its just that the default styling is bad |
| 09:40:50 | <rini> | but oh well, semantic html is for nerds apparently |
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| 12:51:30 | <Inst_> | why is this so efficient? |
| 12:51:33 | <Inst_> | https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/fastest/clang-ghc.html |
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| 13:05:48 | <__monty__> | That sure is a lot of numbers. |
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| 18:16:38 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> Shouldn't optimized programs look more like flatparse/smalltt? I see some translations of C idioms instead, which may not be the fastest option |
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| 19:34:03 | <lxsameer> | hey folks, I'm using Relude and in this code, it ghc complains that ‘show’ is not a (visible) method of class ‘Show’. https://dpaste.com/7PXDG7B6W#line-32 |
| 19:34:19 | <lxsameer> | Is it a relude thing or I'm doing it wrong |
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| 19:40:14 | <lxsameer> | nvm found some info |
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| 20:54:01 | <d34df00d> | Hi! |
| 20:56:22 | <d34df00d> | I have a program which spends most of this time in this function: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/Di5FLSLg . If the input is big enough (think a string of 10-20 millions of characters), it spends about 45% of time in GC. |
| 20:57:29 | <d34df00d> | I presume this is because the function cannot be TCO'ed (at least, in all branches) due to this <|> thingie in one of the branches, so it actually needs to keep track of the stack. |
| 20:57:37 | <mauke> | huh. I can't even resolve that host anymore |
| 20:58:28 | <d34df00d> | Ok, here's an alternative paste: https://bpa.st/5R2A |
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| 20:58:37 | <d34df00d> | Anyway, is there anything I could try doing to make it better? |
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| 20:59:58 | <geekosaur> | that's weird, it (paste.tomsmeding.com) works for me |
| 21:00:28 | <mauke> | yeah, it's back to working now |
| 21:01:06 | <mauke> | I got a CNAME new.tomsmeding.com. but no A record, only SERVFAIL |
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| 21:08:23 | <monochrom> | The hypothesis "<|> causes much GC pressure" can be easily tested by a test case that never hits TBranch. |
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| 21:11:43 | <d34df00d> | monochrom: I mean not the <|> itself but its presence which precludes ghc from converting `go` to a tail-call form. |
| 21:12:31 | <monochrom> | That in turn can be easily tested by benchmarking another version of code in which TBranch doesn't exist. |
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| 21:13:03 | <monochrom> | Or look at the generated core code. |
| 21:13:13 | <d34df00d> | monochrom: yeah, I just commented out the `<|>` part (so it's always the first branch) and ran it on a regexp with an input that always hits the first branch (so both versions result in the same behavior). |
| 21:13:36 | <monochrom> | In this case actually s/tested/refuted/ (I have seen similar cases) |
| 21:14:19 | <d34df00d> | So if the <|> and the second branch is commented out, according to +RTS -s max residency is 33 megabytes, and GC time is 0.13 s. |
| 21:14:45 | <d34df00d> | If they are not commented out and are present in the code (but never hit), it's 520 megs max residency and 0.34 s GC time. |
| 21:15:11 | <d34df00d> | The MUT time also increases from 0.26 to 0.36 s if the second branch is merely present. |
| 21:15:47 | <d34df00d> | But I guess it's just because the function call is more costly in this case. |
| 21:16:24 | <talismanick> | Whatever happened to process calculi, session types, and other distributed formalisms? |
| 21:16:27 | <talismanick> | Cloud Haskell is still updated it seems, but it's neither clear what it adds over Erlang/OTP nor what large-scale changes have taken place since 2016, as that's the latest major update listed on the site, a whole version behind Hackage: https://haskell-distributed.github.io/ |
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| 21:17:20 | <talismanick> | STM beats other languages for single-machinery concurrency hands-down, but what happened to distributed work? |
| 21:17:27 | <monochrom> | It appeals to people like me who religiously insist on static typing and would rather sacrifice pragmatism. >:) |
| 21:17:29 | <d34df00d> | talismanick: I think I've seen a paper related to session types in ESOP 2024. |
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| 21:17:50 | <d34df00d> | But I haven't read it cause distributed stuff is outside of my area. |
| 21:18:18 | <d34df00d> | monochrom: so yeah, I guess it's not refuted in this case :) |
| 21:18:35 | <d34df00d> | But dunno if it can be fixed or if it's just a part of the intrinsic (runtime) complexity. |
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| 21:24:51 | <EvanR> | cloud haskell adds over erlang/otp by being haskell not erlang |
| 21:27:38 | <talismanick> | d34df00d: but I can never seem to find working code for recent papers |
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| 21:28:18 | <d34df00d> | talismanick: write it yourself! |
| 21:28:23 | <d34df00d> | That's the fun part! |
| 21:28:35 | <talismanick> | the verified causal broadcast one had it - and it worked when I played around with it, even - but it's restricted to an immutable set of processes at runtime |
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| 21:29:10 | <mauke> | data ParseState = ParseState [(Int, Expr -> Expr)] (Maybe Term) |
| 21:29:58 | <talismanick> | d34df00d: I just want distributed stuff that doesn't break ;_; |
| 21:30:14 | <mauke> | actually, Int is technically wrong |
| 21:30:34 | <talismanick> | anyways, were you referring to the Sessbion Abstract Machine paper? |
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| 21:35:57 | <talismanick> | also, how usable is Linear Haskell these days? |
| 21:36:53 | <talismanick> | I presume it'll lack the in-place update optimizations for the foreseeable future, but can it provide the correctness guarantees without too much boilerplate? |
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| 22:44:29 | <EvanR> | talismanick, I recall a talk one time which asked how working/correct could cloud haskell be |
| 22:44:48 | <EvanR> | a slide answered this by saying it would be as reliable as TCP/IP |
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| 22:45:34 | <EvanR> | re: distributed stuff that doesn't break |
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| 23:12:18 | <talismanick> | EvanR: well, there's the CAP theorem saying you can't have your cake and eat it too - I acknowledge that - but there's a lot you can work with in special cases, especially if you drop consistency for monotonicity |
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| 23:12:46 | <EvanR> | inconsistency, fun |
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| 23:13:27 | <talismanick> | TCP acknowledges fallability in the general case - it tries to send packets as many times as needed to pass the full message - and makes tradeoffs |
| 23:13:48 | <talismanick> | does that mean Cloud Haskell aims to make the same compromises? |
| 23:14:08 | <talismanick> | and monotonicity gets you most of what you want from consistency... |
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| 23:14:24 | <talismanick> | (intuitively speaking, imho anyways) |
| 23:15:16 | <talismanick> | http://bloom-lang.net/calm/ |
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| 23:22:47 | <EvanR> | iirc they run their protocol on top of TCP |
| 23:22:57 | <talismanick> | ah |
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| 23:23:50 | <talismanick> | so it's more akin to a set of "typed as best as possible" building blocks for process calculi, paxos, etc? |
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