Logs on 2024-09-22 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 00:08:23 | <probie> | That would just mean "foreign import goapi" requires a go compiler available, which seems about the same as "foreign import capi" |
| 00:09:20 | <probie> | Go takes "don't rely on internals" pretty seriously. They introduced a performance penalty to iterating over maps by making iteration happen in a random order so people wouldn't be able to rely on the ordering |
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| 00:44:02 | <EvanR> | that's... |
| 00:45:29 | <geekosaur> | …no different than randomizing to avoid data-based attacks (think crypto hashes) |
| 00:45:49 | <EvanR> | sounds like something I would have imposed on my coworkers after 1 month of experience |
| 00:46:36 | <EvanR> | treat your programming team as a threat profile? xD |
| 00:46:51 | <EvanR> | malicious? stupid? same thing |
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| 01:49:57 | <EvanR> | also yet another reason to appreciate Data.Map |
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| 02:41:05 | <haskellbridge> | <geekosaur> bridge going down while I upgrade my system |
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| 05:10:25 | <cheater> | geekosaur: do you think that the name of the bot could be shortened to something more manageable? |
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| 07:18:01 | <tomsmeding> | EvanR: there are advantages to a hash map too :) |
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| 07:26:56 | <cheater> | are we having the same conversation about direct syscalls as was being had in the rust community (was it rust?) a short while back? |
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| 11:42:27 | <gentauro> | hey, what are function-types called in Algebraic Data Types? I know we mostly refer ADT's only to product and sum types, but I recall that functions types are also part of the pod (link to website pointing to theory would be gladly appreciated). Thx :) |
| 11:43:21 | <gentauro> | Remark: Back in the days, it was defined on the wiki page for ADT, but it seems that it has been removed :( |
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| 11:46:47 | <ncf> | functions are not typically included in algebraic data types, but are you looking for "exponential"? https://ncatlab.org/nlab/show/exponential+object |
| 11:49:12 | <gentauro> | ncf: Hmmmm |
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| 11:53:50 | <gentauro> | ncf: Thx anyway :) |
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| 12:15:34 | <gentauro> | ncf: exponential -> `|a->b| = |b|^|a|` I think I got it :) |
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| 12:29:01 | <tomsmeding> | gentauro: in category theory these things are called "products", "coproducts" and "exponentials" |
| 12:30:05 | <tomsmeding> | ADTs don't include functions, but indeed the "number of elements" rule-of-thumb continues to hold :) |
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| 12:43:01 | <zzz> | gentauro: https://codewords.recurse.com/issues/three/algebra-and-calculus-of-algebraic-data-types |
| 12:43:59 | <zzz> | clear and simple |
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| 19:08:24 | <_d0t> | ohai! What's the simplest way to add pretty-printing of Haskell structures to GHCi? |
| 19:09:37 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> _d0t: IIRC, add this to ~/.ghci, eg: |
| 19:10:01 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> 2. Remember you did that, so you're not confused when it breaks somehow |
| 19:10:31 | <_d0t> | sm: ok lol number 1 didn't get through into IRC. Could you paste it somewhere? |
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| 19:10:51 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> You saw it, I just didn't number it |
| 19:11:41 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> With that in ~/.ghci , I think you'll need to make sure pretty-simple is installed, both user-wide and in each project |
| 19:11:43 | <_d0t> | https://ibb.co/hWtwJjz no, I really didn't |
| 19:12:28 | <sm> | Oh you really didn't. I don't see it in IRC either. That's weird. |
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| 19:12:49 | <sm> | Here it comes again: |
| 19:12:50 | <sm> | ``` |
| 19:12:55 | <sm> | :set -package pretty-simple |
| 19:12:55 | <sm> | :set -interactive-print=Text.Pretty.Simple.pPrintNoColor |
| 19:12:55 | <sm> | ``` |
| 19:13:17 | <_d0t> | I guess, sending markdown doesn't work heh |
| 19:13:24 | <_d0t> | thanks! |
| 19:13:27 | <sm> | @geekosaur is the bridge filtering out code blocks perhaps ? |
| 19:13:27 | <lambdabot> | Unknown command, try @list |
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| 19:15:16 | <sm> | and drop the "NoColor" if you trust that you'll always have an ANSI-color-supporting output environment |
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| 19:16:16 | <_d0t> | soo.. what's the best way to make sure stack always loads pretty-simple? |
| 19:16:23 | <_d0t> | I use stack for almost all projects atm |
| 19:16:55 | <sm> | _d0t: first try this: cd; stack install pretty-simple |
| 19:17:57 | <sm> | That'll install it user-wide (for your current default snapshot, at least). Then see if ghci is able to use it within a project (if the project uses that same snapshot, at least) |
| 19:18:22 | <_d0t> | nah, it'll be different snapshots. |
| 19:18:26 | <_d0t> | almost definitely. |
| 19:18:50 | <_d0t> | also `stack ghci` ignores ~/.ghci |
| 19:19:08 | <sm> | really ? even if there's no .ghci in the project dir ? |
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| 19:19:50 | <_d0t> | yup |
| 19:19:53 | <sm> | good to know |
| 19:19:54 | <_d0t> | at least seems so |
| 19:20:07 | <_d0t> | I guess, the better approach would be to involve pretty-simple binary somehow |
| 19:20:38 | <sm> | I usually have pretty-simple declared as a dependency of my project, so it will be there for ghci also |
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| 19:22:04 | <_d0t> | oh wait, somehow stack ghci picked up pretty-simple from what you advised, even across snapshots. |
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| 19:22:10 | <_d0t> | Weird... but hey, it works! |
| 19:22:12 | <_d0t> | thank you |
| 19:22:29 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> Great. Just remember 2. :) |
| 19:23:06 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> I expect when you upgrade your default snapshot, in ~/.stack/global-project/stack.yaml, you'd need to install pretty-simple globally again |
| 19:24:00 | <_d0t> | I'll cross that bridge when I get there |
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| 19:24:27 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> I have found pretty much everything clever I added to any .ghci file bit me later and took time to rediscover. Alas :) |
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| 19:39:55 | <geekosaur> | sm, not that I'm aware of, normally it pastebins them |
| 19:40:53 | <joeyadams> | Is it possible to configure ghci to run in a different monad than vanilla IO? |
| 19:40:53 | <gwern> | so I was looking into ghc/ghci tab completion in bash because I noticed it keeps tab-completing random files like *.o or *.hi which is getting rather inconvenient in working on my website, and I'm confused by the bash tab-completion situation. I would expect basic ghc tab-completion (at least to the file of excluding intermediates and whatnot) to have been shipped and available for literally… |
| 19:40:59 | <gwern> | …decades, but I can't quite seem to figure out the situation. there *is* a tab completion script in https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/tree/wip/ci/utils/completion which strongly implies that it ought to already be long ago enabled and part of the standard 'bash-completion' package I of course have installed, but there is zero mention of ghc or haskell in… |
| 19:41:04 | <gwern> | …https://github.com/scop/bash-completion and the only relevant ghc patch I see about distribution also seems to not enable it in any way, just copy it along? https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/merge_requests/7174/diffs?commit_id=16d87d688e56bbd40a09a2caa7fab18dd54e42af |
| 19:41:25 | <haskellbridge> | <geekosaur> testing a long code-block-like thing |
| 19:41:25 | <haskellbridge> | hm, docker log shows an internal error trying to pastebin |
| 19:42:15 | <geekosaur> | lol that was too short to trigger pastebin logic by 1 line |
| 19:42:31 | <haskellbridge> | <geekosaur> +third line, pastebin me! |
| 19:42:49 | <haskellbridge> | <geekosaur> bah, edit mode bites |
| 19:42:56 | <haskellbridge> | <geekosaur> line 1 |
| 19:43:18 | <geekosaur> | lemme try restarting it |
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| 19:45:56 | <geekosaur> | joeyadams: ghci will actually run in anything that's MonadIO, but see https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/users_guide/ghci.html#using-a-custom-interactive-printing-function as to how to meaningfully use it |
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| 19:46:58 | <haskellbridge> | <geekosaur> test 1 |
| 19:47:11 | <haskellbridge> | <geekosaur> wurgh |
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| 19:48:15 | <haskellbridge> | <geekosaur> noise |
| 19:48:26 | <geekosaur> | nope, getting the same error |
| 19:48:54 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> gwern: I was looking at bash completion recently. I wouldn't be surprised if ghc completions aren't included in bash-completion, but provided by the debian package for ghc, possibly |
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| 19:51:42 | <haskellbridge> | <geekosaur> this is ridic |
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| 19:54:20 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> hehe sounds like my daily mantra |
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| 19:55:23 | <haskellbridge> | <geekosaur> I mean, I did upgrade my system… but this is all in a docker container with its own separate Python |
| 19:55:47 | <haskellbridge> | <geekosaur> trying again |
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| 19:57:27 | <haskellbridge> | <geekosaur> 1 |
| 19:57:27 | <haskellbridge> | ... long message truncated: https://kf8nh.com/_matrix/media/v3/download/kf8nh.com/fBHcyJBNMDwUBOJWlXrjFMIS (5 lines) |
| 19:57:55 | <haskellbridge> | <geekosaur> sigh, I thought I turned those off. I hope using an old version didn't defeat that |
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| 19:59:13 | <haskellbridge> | <geekosaur> 5 |
| 19:59:27 | <haskellbridge> | <geekosaur> pjkmn |
| 20:00:08 | <haskellbridge> | <geekosaur> so the latest version, released a month ago but apparently only pulled recently, broke pastebinning |
| 20:00:19 | <haskellbridge> | <geekosaur> but now I have those damned pills back on the matrix side |
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| 20:08:34 | <sm> | ack.. but it's working at least |
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| 20:10:33 | <haskellbridge> | <geekosaur> one more try |
| 20:11:02 | <haskellbridge> | <geekosaur> …apparently not ☹️ |
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| 20:16:11 | <gwern> | sm: well, I'm on ubuntu so if debian was shipping it I'd expect it. also, I'd expect 'ghc' or 'haskell' to be a hit *somewhere* in the bash-completion git repo, but it's not |
| 20:16:23 | gwern | shrugs and hacks up his own with claude https://claude.site/artifacts/507d517f-1567-469c-886b-68184c3ae4aa |
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| 20:22:56 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> I see a ghc.bash installed by the homebrew formula, eg, but not included in the ubuntu package https://salsa.debian.org/haskell-team/DHG_packages/-/tree/master/p/ghc/debian |
| 20:24:16 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> s/ubuntu/debian & ubuntu/ |
| 20:25:10 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> (on mac, I also seem to have ghc completions configured somehow even though I installed with ghcup not brew) |
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| 20:29:02 | <tomsmeding> | gwern: have you seen the README here? https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/tree/master/utils/completion |
| 20:29:29 | <gwern> | yes. as I said, it very strongly implies it ought to be there but is not |
| 20:29:40 | <tomsmeding> | well, it implies that the package manager should have put it there |
| 20:29:47 | <tomsmeding> | which package manager did you use to install GHC? |
| 20:30:01 | <gwern> | apt on ubuntu, I think. possibly a ppa |
| 20:31:25 | <tomsmeding> | gwern: you can check with `dpkg-query -S $(which ghc)` |
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| 20:31:34 | <tomsmeding> | (if it was indeed an apt package) |
| 20:32:17 | <tomsmeding> | then `dpkg -L <the package name>` shows the files in that package, which should allow you to distinguish between "it's there but in a bone-headed location" and "it's not there" |
| 20:33:10 | <gwern> | no hits for bash or complet, so looks like not included indeed |
| 20:33:16 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> As fallback, the README says to source ghc.bash. Another way (that loads it lazily, not during every shell startup) is to save it as ~/.local/share/bash-completion/completions/ghc. |
| 20:33:41 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> seems like a doc/packaging bug indeed |
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| 20:36:54 | <tomsmeding> | that is to say: contact the packager of that ppa and ask them to include ghc.bash :) |
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| 20:37:51 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> gwern did that claude script work the way you wanted, and did you have to fiddle much ? |
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| 20:41:17 | <gwern> | sm: well, I ran through a bunch of versions to get the cycling right, yeah, and to clean it up and remove shellcheck warnings and document it. haven't run into any further issues inasmuch as I just created it |
| 20:42:04 | <tomsmeding> | I would assume the ghc.bash original the ghc repo is higher-quality than whatever comes out of an AI -- and if not, that's a bug report to the GHC repo :) |
| 20:42:10 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> cool |
| 20:43:05 | <gwern> | tomsmeding: the ghc.bash looks like it's ancient and hasn't been touched in years, and is focused on the cli options. while what I want is to avoid the damn thing completing on *.hi and *.o and stuff like that |
| 20:43:09 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> would claude or chatgpt tell you why ghc completions don't work on your system ? I guess maybe |
| 20:43:46 | <tomsmeding> | I see, I should have actually looked at the file :p |
| 20:43:46 | <gwern> | maybe. but in this case, it was very quickly apparent why it wasn't working: because there was none at all on my system. the question became, why isn't it there |
| 20:43:58 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> yup |
| 20:44:51 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> I never use bash completions, because they don't work in emacs shell and because I'm using osh, but I must say when you have good ones they're pretty handy for discovery and learning |
| 20:45:52 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> and excluding wrong file extensions is another use I hadn't thought of. I would tend to just type "ghc foo" omitting the extension |
| 20:46:27 | <gwern> | then you have to cycle through the wrong ones |
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| 20:47:32 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> yes I see, you have to type all of "foo" |
| 20:48:22 | <gwern> | and the more hs files you have, the worse it gets since it's multiplicative: a .o and .hi for every .hs, or worse, in my case because I have a bunch of php, python, and bash scripts which also get picked up by the tab-completion... |
| 20:48:39 | <gwern> | (gwern.net has gotten kinda complicated in terms of tooling and libraries) |
| 20:49:12 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> I think a lot of haskellers and especially ghc contributors are not often running "ghc" directly |
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| 20:49:38 | <tomsmeding> | and if they are, it's for small examples where dumb tab completion is more than sufficient |
| 20:49:50 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> s/and especially ghc contributors// |
| 20:49:56 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> sounds like a good addition to ghc.bash |
| 20:51:10 | <tomsmeding> | mind that some options to ghc(i) do take non-.hs files, such as ghci -ghci-script |
| 20:51:48 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> completion scripts can be smart about such things |
| 20:51:52 | <tomsmeding> | I always find it incredibly annoying if some completion script decides for me that it will only complete certain kinds of things for me, meaning that I don't even get a list reminding me of the full thing to type -- I actually have to bail out, `ls`, and type if over |
| 20:52:07 | <tomsmeding> | (in the cases where the completion script is overly restrictive) |
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| 20:52:49 | <tomsmeding> | (fish's cabal completion script doesn't understand '--' meaning that I get negative utility when passing arguments to 'cabal run something -- ...', and I hate it, but not quite enough to go and fix it) |
| 20:53:00 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> oh that's annoying |
| 20:53:15 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> -- is important |
| 20:53:41 | <gwern> | what unsafe arguments do you need ' -- ' for? |
| 20:53:53 | <tomsmeding> | gwern: just to pass arguments to the program I'm `cabal run`ing |
| 20:54:17 | <tomsmeding> | `cabal run` takes an executable name (to build and run) and, after `--`, arguments to said executable |
| 20:54:23 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> when I want to run anything in the context of a project's package environment, I'm doing stack exec -- ... or cabal exec -- ... |
| 20:54:25 | <gwern> | `cabal run foo --abc` doesn't automatically turn that into running `foo --abc`? |
| 20:54:52 | <tomsmeding> | I mean, even if that did work, that wouldn't make fish's completion any more functional :p |
| 20:55:17 | <gwern> | just sounds odd. I would expect cabal run to only take its options if they came before 'foo', or before 'run' even |
| 20:55:40 | <tomsmeding> | it also takes them after the executable name -- not sure why |
| 20:55:42 | <gwern> | a wrapper like that doesn't usually *need* the ' -- ' guard |
| 20:55:57 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> gwern: that's a possible convention, but would be surprising to some people. Robust command line processing is quite hard |
| 20:56:29 | <gwern> | (ie. 'cabal run --option foo' obviously means that '--option' is for 'cabal run' and not for 'foo', and so 'cabal run --option1 foo --option2' is not ambiguous and doesn't need any guarding) |
| 20:57:01 | <tomsmeding> | it's not what cabal does, for better or for worse |
| 20:57:08 | <tomsmeding> | `cabal run foo xyz` does run `foo xyz` |
| 21:00:18 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> I think that kind of position sensitivity in clis is uncommon because it requires custom logic (or more flexibility than exists in the vast majority of parsing libs) |
| 21:01:24 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> it also gets more complicated if you want your tool to run external exes as subcommands, as recent cabal does |
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| 22:18:13 | <gwern> | anyway so I guess I should file a ubuntu bug for the ghc package asking for the existing ghc.bash to be installed appropriately? |
| 22:21:02 | <sm> | that sounds good, and/or a ghc bug asking for the script to be updated for latest ghc |
| 22:21:33 | gwern | figures that once it is actually enabled rather than buried in the deepest mustiest part of the ghc repo, then people will start filing bugs on its infelicities |
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| 22:30:21 | <gwern> | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ghc/+bug/2081666 |
| 22:31:13 | ← | gwern parts (~gwern@user/gwern) () |
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| 22:49:31 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> I love launchpad, haven't seen it for ages |
| 22:49:55 | <geekosaur> | I just saw it again last night (they broke clang++, dammit) |
| 22:50:35 | geekosaur | just upgraded to 24.04. it's a mixed bag, but generally positive because a lot of annoying bugs going back at least to 20.04 have finally been fixed |
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| 23:00:25 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> 👀 |
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| 23:03:28 | <geekosaur> | first time I logged in a number of programs were behaving oddly, but exiting and restarting them fixed that. ??? |
| 23:03:36 | <geekosaur> | hope that doesn't repeat on reboot |
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| 23:36:59 | <cheater> | "i love launchpad" there's no way you're not alone on that |
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All times are in UTC on 2024-09-22.