Logs on 2024-10-02 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 03:44:36 | Lord_of_Life_ | is now known as Lord_of_Life |
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| 08:28:54 | <tomsmeding> | sm: wasm support improving is really cool! |
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| 10:18:15 | <L29Ah> | https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/2403 |
| 10:18:15 | <L29Ah> | is there some external runhaskell caching implementation like suggested in the issue? |
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| 10:21:55 | <tomsmeding> | L29Ah: https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/3.4/cabal-commands.html?highlight=script#cabal-v2-run |
| 10:22:32 | <tomsmeding> | perhaps the latest version https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/3.4/cabal-commands.html?highlight=script#cabal-v2-run |
| 10:22:37 | <tomsmeding> | oh |
| 10:22:39 | <tomsmeding> | https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/latest/cabal-commands.html#cabal-run |
| 10:22:42 | <tomsmeding> | c'mon, clipboard |
| 10:24:21 | <L29Ah> | thanks |
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| 10:25:51 | <tomsmeding> | posted a comment in case someone else lands on that issue in the future :) |
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| 13:36:10 | <__monty__> | Anyone have a good mental model of what "traverse" does? I think my difficulties with <*> are leaking into my lack of understanding of Traversable. |
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| 13:47:49 | <Rembane> | :t traverse |
| 13:47:50 | <lambdabot> | (Traversable t, Applicative f) => (a -> f b) -> t a -> f (t b) |
| 13:48:01 | <Rembane> | :t sequence |
| 13:48:02 | <lambdabot> | (Traversable t, Monad m) => t (m a) -> m (t a) |
| 13:48:06 | <Rembane> | :t fmap |
| 13:48:07 | <lambdabot> | Functor f => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b |
| 13:48:20 | <Rembane> | :t sequence . fmap |
| 13:48:21 | <lambdabot> | (Traversable ((->) (m a1)), Monad m) => (a1 -> a2) -> m (m a1 -> a2) |
| 13:48:32 | <Rembane> | That one didn't help. :D |
| 13:49:14 | <Rembane> | But in a handwavy way: it's fmap and then sequence because I need to change swap f and t |
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| 13:54:54 | <lortabac> | __monty__: you can think of 'traverse' as an 'fmap' in which the function is not pure but includes an Applicative "effect" |
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| 13:57:20 | <lortabac> | immagine you have a list of user ID's and want to fetch the corrisponding users from the database |
| 13:57:50 | <lortabac> | if it was a pure computation you would do (map fetchUserByID userIds) |
| 13:58:43 | <lortabac> | but since 'fetchUserByID' is an IO action you need (traverse fetchUserByID userIds) |
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| 13:59:13 | <lortabac> | I can't think of a more handwaivy explanation than this one :) |
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| 14:26:01 | <EvanR_> | traverse is doubly generalized mapM |
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| 14:27:24 | <EvanR_> | :t mapM |
| 14:27:26 | <lambdabot> | (Traversable t, Monad m) => (a -> m b) -> t a -> m (t b) |
| 14:27:44 | <EvanR_> | they already generalized it to undercut the argument |
| 14:27:50 | <EvanR_> | :t sequenceA . fmap |
| 14:27:51 | <lambdabot> | (Traversable ((->) (f a1)), Applicative f) => (a1 -> a2) -> f (f a1 -> a2) |
| 14:28:03 | <EvanR_> | :t sequenceA . fmap f |
| 14:28:04 | <lambdabot> | (Traversable t, Applicative f, Show a1, FromExpr (f a2)) => t a1 -> f (t a2) |
| 14:28:12 | <EvanR_> | :horror: |
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| 14:31:29 | <EvanR_> | a million years ago mapM only worked on list |
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| 15:05:02 | <tomsmeding> | :t \f -> sequenceA . fmap f |
| 15:05:03 | <lambdabot> | (Traversable t, Applicative f) => (a1 -> f a2) -> t a1 -> f (t a2) |
| 15:05:06 | <tomsmeding> | :t traverse |
| 15:05:07 | <lambdabot> | (Traversable t, Applicative f) => (a -> f b) -> t a -> f (t b) |
| 15:05:15 | <tomsmeding> | Rembane: ^ |
| 15:05:54 | <tomsmeding> | +1 on lortabac's version |
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| 15:06:02 | <tomsmeding> | :t fmap |
| 15:06:03 | <lambdabot> | Functor f => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b |
| 15:06:04 | <tomsmeding> | :t traverse |
| 15:06:05 | <lambdabot> | (Traversable t, Applicative f) => (a -> f b) -> t a -> f (t b) |
| 15:06:29 | <EvanR> | the ((.) . (.)) trick does not work :( |
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| 15:06:43 | <tomsmeding> | :t (sequenceA .) . fmap |
| 15:06:44 | <lambdabot> | (Traversable t, Applicative f) => (a1 -> f a2) -> t a1 -> f (t a2) |
| 15:07:58 | <EvanR> | d-d-d-damn! |
| 15:08:24 | <tomsmeding> | traverse :: (a -> f b) -> t a -> f (t b ) |
| 15:08:40 | <tomsmeding> | underlined parts (I hope your irc client shows them) are different from fmap |
| 15:08:41 | <EvanR> | what did you do to my client |
| 15:09:00 | <tomsmeding> | i did dis https://weechat.org/files/doc/stable/weechat_user.en.html#command_line_colors |
| 15:09:55 | <tomsmeding> | 02c03o04l05o06u07r08s |
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| 15:15:35 | <EvanR> | someone tagged the channel wall |
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| 15:15:57 | <EvanR> | might have been tomsmeding |
| 15:16:21 | tomsmeding | is not sure which wall you're talking about |
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| 15:41:52 | <__monty__> | Is there a better way to implement traverse for ListZipper than using reverse twice for the left side? https://github.com/system-f/fp-course/blob/master/src/Course/ListZipper.hs#L693 |
| 15:47:10 | <Lears> | @hoogle Data.Functor.Reverse |
| 15:47:11 | <lambdabot> | module Data.Functor.Reverse |
| 15:47:11 | <lambdabot> | Data.Functor.Reverse newtype Reverse f a |
| 15:47:11 | <lambdabot> | Data.Functor.Reverse Reverse :: f a -> Reverse f a |
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| 15:58:49 | <__monty__> | Lears: Interesting, that would pretty much do the reverses for me, right? I was wondering if reversing could be avoided altogether. |
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| 16:13:00 | <__monty__> | tomsmeding: I'm pretty sure it's the fourth. |
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| 16:29:04 | <tomsmeding> | __monty__: I see :p |
| 16:33:26 | <tomsmeding> | __monty__: you can also inline the reverses into the traveral of the left side |
| 16:33:35 | <tomsmeding> | you aren't going to get around building up stack space there though, I think |
| 16:33:53 | <tomsmeding> | https://play.haskell.org/saved/FSZ9n53w |
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| 16:34:52 | <tomsmeding> | s/inline into/fuse with/ |
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| 16:37:52 | <tomsmeding> | hm, that Data.Functor.Reverse implementation (from `transformers`, by the way) seems to also fuse the reverses into the traversal |
| 16:37:55 | <tomsmeding> | but with a bit more newtype magic |
| 16:38:12 | <Lears> | __monty__: It uses the symmetry Applicative to run one `Backwards` as it traverses. Depending on the Applicative, this may or may not be a substantial improvement over reversing the list. Regardless, as the defacto way to reverse a Traversable it represents the best method. |
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| 16:39:51 | <Lears> | symmetry of* |
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| 16:49:50 | <__monty__> | Lears, tomsmeding: OK, thanks for the advice. I think the exercise probably just intended using reverse (or rewriting the traverse fold) since it's all fairly self-contained. Will try to remember Reverse in case this comes up in a non-educational context though : ) |
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| 16:50:18 | <tomsmeding> | probably :) |
| 16:50:25 | <tomsmeding> | it also seems to have its own List type and all |
| 16:50:56 | <tomsmeding> | and even its own copy of the type class hierarchy, because I see a Traversable instance but no Foldable instance, and Foldable is a superclass of Traversable in base (since a couple of years ago) |
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| 16:54:18 | <Lears> | As a note, there is a more zippery option: step left until the issue disappears, traverse, then refocus the appropriate element. |
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| 21:33:51 | <__monty__> | Lears: Is that more zippery? I figured you want to move the zipper as little as possible for efficiency? |
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| 22:01:09 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> "hell" on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41694767 |
| 22:01:34 | <probie> | % let{f x=print x>>pure x;tleft=fmap($ []).foldr(\x k -> liftA2(flip(.))k(fmap(:)x))(pure$id)}in tleft $ map f [1..5] -- Probably worse than two reverses because it spills the list to the stack |
| 22:01:34 | <yahb2> | 5 ; 4 ; 3 ; 2 ; 1 ; [1,2,3,4,5] |
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| 23:12:43 | <c_wraith> | does STM document its consistency properties anywhere? istr it's the equivalent of read-committed, rather than fully linearizable? |
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| 23:20:05 | <mauke> | what's the difference? |
| 23:23:36 | <geekosaur> | I think it might be only by reference (there's a paper from Intel Research describing it) |
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| 23:30:56 | <c_wraith> | mauke: with read-committed you can read a set of values that never would have existed together if all transactions were serialized. |
| 23:32:30 | <geekosaur> | I don't think you can get into that situation with STM; the only such sets wouldn't be observable, because anything that could observe them would be forced to `retry` and end up with a consistent set? |
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| 23:33:15 | <c_wraith> | hmm. possibly so. I tried a few traces that typically show that, and they did all retry with STM semantics. |
| 23:33:18 | <geekosaur> | something observing program state from outside could potentially see such states |
| 23:33:47 | <c_wraith> | well, something observing from the outside can see all kinds of stuff with STM |
| 23:33:52 | <geekosaur> | yep |
| 23:34:11 | <geekosaur> | this should all be covered in the Intel paper |
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| 23:55:28 | <Lears> | c_wraith: <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/wp-content/uploads/2005/01/2005-ppopp-composable.pdf> (linked indirectly from Control.Concurrent.STM) is /the/ STM paper if GHC's particular form/extension of STM is what you're interested in. I imagine it has the answer you're looking for, though I'd be very surprised if such states were observable. |
| 23:55:48 | <dolio> | c_wraith: Yeah, that's true. |
| 23:56:06 | <c_wraith> | ugh, why did my irc client think the > is part of the link? bad client! |
| 23:56:26 | <dolio> | This is discussed in Revisting Software Transactional Memory in Haskell. |
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