Logs on 2024-11-10 (liberachat/#haskell)
| 00:00:03 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 00:01:56 | × | ZLima12 quits (~zlima12@user/meow/ZLima12) () |
| 00:02:04 | × | acidjnk quits (~acidjnk@p200300d6e7283f16448a924b9966d16d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
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| 00:31:45 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 00:33:59 | × | Tuplanolla quits (~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 00:42:38 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
| 00:49:51 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
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| 00:56:50 | × | mhatta quits (~mhatta@www21123ui.sakura.ne.jp) (Quit: ZNC 1.9.1+deb2+b1 - https://znc.in) |
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| 00:57:29 | ljdarj1 | is now known as ljdarj |
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| 01:03:52 | × | emfrom quits (~emfrom@37.169.9.146) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 01:31:19 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
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| 01:50:04 | × | sprotte24 quits (~sprotte24@p200300d16f13e200684574e5c8dff959.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 03:37:04 | × | Unicorn_Princess quits (~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 04:07:04 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
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| 04:59:33 | × | weary-traveler quits (~user@user/user363627) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 05:14:30 | × | haritz quits (~hrtz@user/haritz) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 05:28:28 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
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| 06:18:31 | × | ChaiTRex quits (~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) (Quit: ChaiTRex) |
| 06:18:31 | × | tv quits (~tv@user/tv) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 08:19:24 | ChanServ | sets mode +v haskellbridge |
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| 10:17:38 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> wiki.haskell.org down again? |
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| 10:31:36 | <tomsmeding> | down still |
| 10:31:45 | <tomsmeding> | Morj: https://status.haskell.org/ |
| 10:32:24 | <tomsmeding> | https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2024-November/136929.html |
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| 16:28:25 | → | halloy5409 joins (~halloy540@81.199.238.129) |
| 16:29:32 | <halloy5409> | > filter (>5) [1..10] |
| 16:29:33 | <lambdabot> | [6,7,8,9,10] |
| 16:30:08 | <halloy5409> | > foldr f [] [1..10] |
| 16:30:09 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 16:30:09 | <lambdabot> | • No instance for (FromExpr [()]) arising from a use of ‘e_1110’ |
| 16:30:09 | <lambdabot> | • In the expression: e_1110 |
| 16:30:40 | → | tromp joins (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) |
| 16:31:46 | <halloy5409> | > foldr f z [a,b,c,d] |
| 16:31:47 | <lambdabot> | f a (f b (f c (f d z))) |
| 16:32:30 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
| 16:32:33 | <halloy5409> | > foldr f (+) [a,b,c,d] |
| 16:32:35 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 16:32:35 | <lambdabot> | • No instance for (Typeable a0) |
| 16:32:35 | <lambdabot> | arising from a use of ‘show_M74914624774029100048’ |
| 16:32:41 | <halloy5409> | > foldr f (+) [1..10] |
| 16:32:43 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 16:32:43 | <lambdabot> | • No instance for (Typeable a0) |
| 16:32:43 | <lambdabot> | arising from a use of ‘show_M46151858092287190887’ |
| 16:33:52 | → | rvalue joins (~rvalue@user/rvalue) |
| 16:35:56 | × | housemate quits (~housemate@146.70.66.228) (Quit: "I saw it in a tiktok video and thought that it was the most smartest answer ever." ~ AnonOps Radio [some time some place] | I AM THE DERIVATIVE I AM GOING TANGENT TO THE CURVE!) |
| 16:37:05 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 16:39:12 | × | youthlic quits (~Thunderbi@user/youthlic) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 16:39:53 | <halloy5409> | set f a = a+a |
| 16:39:58 | <halloy5409> | > set f a = a+a |
| 16:40:00 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:9: error: parse error on input ‘=’ |
| 16:40:03 | <ncf> | halloy5409: you can /query the bot |
| 16:40:46 | <halloy5409> | can you please give me an example? |
| 16:40:56 | <halloy5409> | how to query |
| 16:41:04 | <ncf> | /query lambdabot > set f a = a+a |
| 16:41:10 | <halloy5409> | thanks! |
| 16:41:50 | → | youthlic joins (~Thunderbi@user/youthlic) |
| 16:43:32 | <halloy5409> | it give my back: QUERY inknown command |
| 16:43:40 | <halloy5409> | *unknown |
| 16:46:04 | <ncf> | then consult your IRC client's manual on how to use private messages |
| 16:47:54 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
| 16:48:33 | × | euleritian quits (~euleritia@dynamic-176-006-141-154.176.6.pool.telefonica.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 16:49:18 | <mauke> | it's /msg in halloy, not /query |
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| 16:49:51 | <mauke> | https://halloy.squidowl.org/commands.html |
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| 17:08:04 | <halloy5409> | mauke: thank! |
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| 18:01:00 | <kaol> | Would it make sense to have a function like this in System.Process? https://paste.debian.net/1335111/ |
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| 20:23:59 | <tomsmeding> | if I reload ghci, it automatically adds some specific module that it itself chose to my environment. Can I configure ghci to _never_ change the `:m` environment on `:r`? |
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| 20:39:05 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> is that caused by a .ghci file somewhere ? |
| 20:39:25 | <geekosaur> | that's what I was wondering |
| 20:39:31 | <tomsmeding> | it happens with plain ghci without any config and has happened since ghc 8.* ages; probably before that but I wasn't around in the haskell world then :p |
| 20:39:55 | <tomsmeding> | perhaps I should have mentioned: this is with `cabal repl`. |
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| 20:40:40 | <tomsmeding> | oh, but it also happens with ghci plain without _anything_ else. |
| 20:40:47 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> what's the module ? |
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| 20:41:00 | <tomsmeding> | it chooses the "main" (?) module, and always loads that in |
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| 20:41:51 | <tomsmeding> | geekosaur: sm: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/yOsBMz9q |
| 20:41:54 | <geekosaur> | (consider that you don't want ghci to unload a module being used with `-interactive-print` |
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| 20:42:16 | <tomsmeding> | can ghci please not load A in my face here ?! |
| 20:42:30 | <tomsmeding> | it should _recompile_ it, not _bring it in scope_ |
| 20:42:52 | <geekosaur> | it brings into scope anything named on the command line |
| 20:42:57 | <tomsmeding> | no, only A |
| 20:43:17 | <tomsmeding> | if I `:m` so that I have only Prelude, then `:r` still makes the module scope `*A` |
| 20:43:31 | <tomsmeding> | ghci has decided here that A is the blessed "main" module or something |
| 20:43:32 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> maybe it picks the alphabetically first ? |
| 20:43:53 | <geekosaur> | I do not understand what point you are trying to make. Line 13 clearly shows you specifying it, as the first module which makes it "blessed" as you put it |
| 20:44:06 | <tomsmeding> | geekosaur: okay, so how do I not do that? |
| 20:44:14 | <geekosaur> | don't list it, or list it second |
| 20:44:20 | <tomsmeding> | how do I load a bunch of modules in ghci, but then preserve my current scope list on `:r`? |
| 20:44:29 | <geekosaur> | (if B needs A, it'll load it but not bring it in scope) |
| 20:44:48 | <tomsmeding> | geekosaur: what if I want my scope list to not be `*B` but `B`? I cannot achieve `:r` keeping `B` even if I list B first, because then it will become `*B`. |
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| 20:45:10 | <tomsmeding> | and also, I have no control over what `cabal repl` passes to ghci |
| 20:45:15 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> no, yes, it picks the first one on the command line |
| 20:45:33 | <tomsmeding> | perhaps then cabal tends to pass a "topmost" module :) |
| 20:45:47 | <geekosaur> | I think the only recourse you have there is `-fobject-code`. otherwise, yes, if it recompiles it it'll do so as source, not object |
| 20:46:04 | <tomsmeding> | surely recompilation can be separate from _scope_? |
| 20:46:18 | <tomsmeding> | just keep my scope as-is, thank you! |
| 20:46:26 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> tomsmeding, you do have some control with cabal repl args/opts don't you |
| 20:46:27 | <geekosaur> | * is not related to scope |
| 20:46:32 | <tomsmeding> | yes it is |
| 20:46:40 | <tomsmeding> | with * I can see the internal definitions, without * I cannot |
| 20:46:41 | <geekosaur> | * means "compiled to bytecode so it can be debugged" |
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| 20:46:52 | <tomsmeding> | ah |
| 20:46:55 | <geekosaur> | which is the only way you can see non-exported names |
| 20:47:10 | <geekosaur> | because object code doesn't contain symbols for non-exported names |
| 20:47:18 | <tomsmeding> | so why can I load a module interpreted but non-*, then? :p |
| 20:47:24 | <tomsmeding> | I just did that there -- `:m B` |
| 20:47:27 | <geekosaur> | afaik you can't |
| 20:47:41 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> TARGET arg and --repl-* opts, eg |
| 20:47:50 | <geekosaur> | did it really load it interpreted? if ghci finds object code it uses it |
| 20:47:57 | <geekosaur> | unless you tell it otherwise with * |
| 20:48:08 | <tomsmeding> | I see `( B.hs, interpreted )` and I read "interpreted" -- is that not accurate? |
| 20:48:15 | <tomsmeding> | (see my paste) |
| 20:48:57 | <int-e> | . o O ( re: .ghci files: alias ghci='ghci -ignore-dot-ghci -ghci-script $HOME/.ghci' ) |
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| 20:49:22 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> source files specified on the command line will always be interpreted, I think ? |
| 20:49:43 | <geekosaur> | not sure about that |
| 20:49:46 | <tomsmeding> | geekosaur: and in any case, I'm uninterested in whether ghci uses my modules interpreted or not; I'm interested in how I can reference names from them :p |
| 20:49:51 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> int-e: you might be wise.. |
| 20:50:19 | <tomsmeding> | how ghc achieves that is up to ghc (unless I go messing with TH I guess and linkage is relevant) |
| 20:50:27 | <geekosaur> | I think what's going on there is it interprets, but still will reload from object code if it sees an object file at :r time. until you explicitly :m *B, at which point it will always interpret |
| 20:50:28 | haskellbridge | sm <- bitten by .ghci things often 😄 |
| 20:50:38 | <tomsmeding> | geekosaur: that's okay! |
| 20:50:40 | <geekosaur> | note that it did not recompile it interpreted |
| 20:50:46 | <tomsmeding> | am I making clear what I want? |
| 20:50:50 | <tomsmeding> | it seems we're still talking past each other |
| 20:50:51 | <geekosaur> | when you did `:m *B` |
| 20:51:01 | <int-e> | hrm how do I list loaded modules in ghci now that it's no longer in the prompt |
| 20:51:11 | <int-e> | and how have I not run into this problem |
| 20:51:11 | <geekosaur> | :show modules |
| 20:51:18 | <tomsmeding> | int-e: :set prompt "%s> " |
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| 20:51:49 | <tomsmeding> | geekosaur: it was already compiled as interpreted, right? Nothing to recompile |
| 20:51:58 | <geekosaur> | exactly |
| 20:52:01 | <tomsmeding> | this directory only contains A.hs and B.hs, no other files, and none were created by ghci |
| 20:52:19 | <int-e> | https://paste.tomsmeding.com/PnmtLCqt -- T.hs from the command line is not interpreted here |
| 20:52:23 | <int-e> | geekosaur: thanks |
| 20:52:26 | <geekosaur> | and what I think you are still missing is what I said earlier, it must be compiled interpeted to show non-exported names |
| 20:52:34 | <tomsmeding> | geekosaur: that's fucking _okay_ :p |
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| 20:52:37 | <tomsmeding> | sorry for my language |
| 20:52:57 | <geekosaur> | it conflates these because it has no choice, non-exported names cannot be accessed from object code |
| 20:52:57 | <tomsmeding> | I appreciate that there are some details regarding interpreted/compiled that I may be missing here |
| 20:53:20 | <tomsmeding> | I am okay with ghc doing whatever it wishes here, including all being interpreted (which is what happens in my paste, I think) |
| 20:53:36 | <tomsmeding> | what I am asking about is for ghci to not change which modules are in scope after I reload |
| 20:53:42 | <geekosaur> | otherwise, when you named `A.hs B.hs` on the command line, you effectively did `:l A.hs`/`:add B.hs` |
| 20:53:49 | <geekosaur> | so `:r` repeats it |
| 20:54:01 | <tomsmeding> | I see |
| 20:54:06 | <geekosaur> | if cabal is doing this to you, I don't know offhand what to do about it |
| 20:54:32 | <geekosaur> | maybe #hackage knows |
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| 20:54:52 | <tomsmeding> | geekosaur: not quite `:l A.hs` `:add B.hs`; if I literally type that, I end up with scope `*B` |
| 20:55:13 | <tomsmeding> | whereas `ghci A.hs B.hs` gives me scope `*A` |
| 20:55:19 | <geekosaur> | mm, maybe it's `:m` instead |
| 20:56:19 | <geekosaur> | wait no, that gives you both, not just `A`. |
| 20:56:33 | <geekosaur> | I think you'll have to ask #ghc for details at this point |
| 20:56:58 | <tomsmeding> | well I very clearly see `*A>` in my prompt after `ghci A.hs B.hs`, and I can see names from A but not from B :p |
| 20:57:00 | <geekosaur> | I recall the manual being more explicit about this in the past, I think they "simplified" it at some point, to the point of making the details too obscure |
| 20:57:03 | <tomsmeding> | does your ghci differ? |
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| 20:57:39 | <geekosaur> | I'm not poking ghci, I'm reading the ghci manual |
| 20:57:50 | <tomsmeding> | int-e: ah, more relevant is `:show imports` |
| 20:58:22 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> geekosaur what is this witchcraft |
| 20:58:42 | <geekosaur> | I don't have a lot that doesn't require me to go through `cabal repl` and deal with whatever it's doing, which is moderately complex |
| 20:58:52 | <tomsmeding> | I recall at least skimming the manual on this, and learning about the details of the syntax of `:m` and finding it useful |
| 20:58:57 | <tomsmeding> | except for this stupid :r behaviour :p |
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| 20:59:14 | <geekosaur> | (trying to make ghci deal nicely with multiple modules when it generally doesn't so much) |
| 20:59:29 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> agreed on complex, ghci's semantics and cabal's are each complicated on their own |
| 20:59:30 | <tomsmeding> | geekosaur: of course, I ~always go through `cabal repl`, so the discussion about plain ghci is academic and/or to figure out what's really happening underneath |
| 20:59:54 | <tomsmeding> | well `ghci A.hs B.hs` works perfectly well for me! |
| 21:00:21 | <tomsmeding> | so at least for the simple case of multiple modules from the same unit, ghci doesn't seem to have any problems |
| 21:00:39 | <tomsmeding> | (I am aware of the existence of intense shenanigans with multi-unit repls, and I don't want to go there) |
| 21:00:48 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> tomsmeding: did you get cabal to show its ghci command ? |
| 21:01:13 | <tomsmeding> | sm: I didn't try, but the behaviour that I dislike with `cabal repl` is completely reproduced with `ghci A.hs B.hs` |
| 21:01:22 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> ok. |
| 21:01:29 | <geekosaur> | ther shenanigans are worse without multi-repl since cabal tries to sort-of simulate it |
| 21:01:40 | <tomsmeding> | I don't think this is a cabal issue |
| 21:01:58 | <tomsmeding> | I have no clue what's going on with multi-unit stuff :) |
| 21:02:10 | <tomsmeding> | I leave that to cabal and HLS people to figure out |
| 21:02:25 | <geekosaur> | mm, the manual does mention some ghci magic involving *-modules |
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| 21:02:39 | <geekosaur> | but it doesn't sound like this, it involves Prelude |
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| 22:26:38 | <yin> | is there a generalization of (:) ? |
| 22:26:53 | <sshine> | :t (:) |
| 22:26:54 | <lambdabot> | a -> [a] -> [a] |
| 22:27:09 | <yin> | i'm thinking for Foldable but i understand that wouldn't be right |
| 22:27:43 | <ncf> | Cons exists https://hackage.haskell.org/package/lens-5.3.2/docs/Control-Lens-Combinators.html#t:Cons |
| 22:27:59 | <ncf> | :t (:<) |
| 22:28:00 | <lambdabot> | Cons b b a a => a -> b -> b |
| 22:28:15 | <yin> | ah thta's noce |
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| 22:30:17 | <yin> | i was thinking of something more like `x :? xs = singleton x <> xs` |
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| 22:34:59 | <ncf> | that makes sense for Applicatives valued in Monoids i guess |
| 22:35:07 | <ncf> | :t \x xs -> pure x <> xs |
| 22:35:08 | <lambdabot> | (Semigroup (f a), Applicative f) => a -> f a -> f a |
| 22:35:29 | <ncf> | or semigroups |
| 22:35:44 | <int-e> | :t mplus |
| 22:35:45 | <lambdabot> | MonadPlus m => m a -> m a -> m a |
| 22:36:13 | <int-e> | :t (<|>) |
| 22:36:14 | <lambdabot> | Alternative f => f a -> f a -> f a |
| 22:36:15 | <ncf> | oh yeah that's basically what Alternative is isn't it |
| 22:36:30 | <ncf> | :t \x xs -> pure x <|> xs |
| 22:36:31 | <lambdabot> | Alternative f => a -> f a -> f a |
| 22:36:55 | <int-e> | I forgot the sigil :P |
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| 22:53:45 | <yin> | ncf: i just couldn't think about something better than singleton and <> |
| 22:54:24 | <yin> | thanks |
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