Logs on 2024-11-15 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 01:47:08 | <zero> | funny how haskell classes inherit the same problem as oop inheritence |
| 01:47:27 | <zero> | pun intended i guess |
| 01:51:19 | <Axman6> | Multiple (problem) inheritance |
| 01:52:48 | <monochrom> | What is the problem? |
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| 02:19:08 | <Axman6> | it makes sorting out the will much more difficult |
| 02:19:27 | <monochrom> | haha |
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| 02:29:14 | <EvanR> | one problem with oop inheritance, usually, is joe schmoe want's his class to inherit from multiple other classes simultaneously. It's a problem either because you aren't allowed to do it, or because you are allowed to do it (e.g. in python) |
| 02:29:24 | <EvanR> | not sure how that translates to haskell |
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| 03:04:11 | <sm> | I guess: long chains of dependency make the whole system more brittle ? |
| 03:05:02 | <sm> | I don't know about multiple inheritance either but suspect that's the root problem |
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| 03:07:15 | <sm> | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_inheritance#The_diamond_problem |
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| 03:48:11 | <EvanR> | in "type classes vs the world" he shows a slide with a diamond dependency, and basically type classes, nothing bad happens |
| 03:48:19 | <EvanR> | s/basically/because/ |
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| 03:49:14 | <EvanR> | because there's only ever zero or one instances for a given type |
| 03:49:39 | <EvanR> | so if you arrive at a dependency along different routes it's the same instance |
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| 05:08:38 | <monochrom> | Multiple implementation inheritance is the problem (even the OO people already know), but it doesn't translate to Haskell. Multiple interface inheritance is well-known to be just fine. |
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| 05:09:36 | <monochrom> | OTOH category theory offers a safe kind of diamond inheritance. It's called push out. |
| 05:09:59 | <monochrom> | Just that you can't do push outs in C++, that's all. :) |
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| 05:13:36 | <EvanR> | pushout = multiple inheritance. Got it. And jquery is a monad! |
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| 05:39:29 | <monochrom> | haha |
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| 07:48:21 | <guy> | HELP HELP iv been up all night and have discovered a UFO! |
| 07:48:27 | <guy> | its unidentified! |
| 07:48:33 | <guy> | its not even a monad! |
| 07:48:37 | <guy> | a net is this |
| 07:49:19 | <guy> | (m (m a),m a) <-> (m (m a),m a) |
| 07:49:28 | <guy> | its like half a monad or something? |
| 07:49:59 | <guy> | instead of being contained inside itself (nets as neurons), it can have this extended as itself (this becomes layers) |
| 07:50:16 | <guy> | instead of going deep at the contents, you put them in layers and its not a recursion |
| 07:50:46 | <guy> | if i had it kind of deep at the neurons anyway, i could always just not do that and add extra layers |
| 07:51:04 | <guy> | but i can kind of make a tradeoff and have both worlds, leading to the type above |
| 07:51:43 | <guy> | like, not all of the inner (m a) in m (m a) extend the ,m a) its paried with |
| 07:52:01 | <guy> | i can like, half do the monad collapse thing |
| 07:52:03 | <guy> | !!! |
| 07:52:05 | <guy> | night x |
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| 13:31:45 | <Rembane> | I've been searching Google, Hoogle and asked various dubious AIs and I can't find the answer to the question: Is there a lens version of mapMaybe? If so, what's the name of it? |
| 13:33:29 | <probie> | :t mapMaybe |
| 13:33:30 | <lambdabot> | (a -> Maybe b) -> [a] -> [b] |
| 13:36:19 | <probie> | So you're looking for something like `(some constraints here) => (a -> f (Maybe b)) -> t a -> f (t b)`? |
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| 13:39:44 | <Rembane> | Yeah, that looks reasonable |
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| 13:40:54 | <Leary> | Rembane: `wither`? |
| 13:41:40 | <Rembane> | Leary: Fancy! Thank you! |
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| 13:44:07 | <c_wraith> | Rembane: if you specifically are looking for compatibility with lens, I didn't like the way the witherable package does it. Or other ways I've seen suggested to do it. So I made https://hackage.haskell.org/package/lens-witherable |
| 13:44:39 | <Rembane> | c_wraith: Even better. Yes, compatibility is important to me. |
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| 13:48:51 | <Hecate> | 'sup hellwolf :) |
| 13:49:46 | <hellwolf> | :) GM Hecate. I couldn't configure my rcirc in emacs for reconnecting after computer shutting down... |
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| 13:55:41 | <Hecate> | :) |
| 13:56:17 | <hellwolf> | sorry, after computer coming back from sleep. I didn't make sense. |
| 13:56:46 | <hellwolf> | anyways, been a good haskell day? |
| 13:57:34 | <Hecate> | yeah, nothing to complain about on this front |
| 13:57:51 | <Hecate> | I'm thinking of using one of my FreeBSD servers in the near future as a development macine |
| 13:57:54 | <Hecate> | *machine |
| 13:59:44 | <hellwolf> | any particular reason? |
| 14:00:59 | <Hecate> | 64GB of RAM and a powerful CPU |
| 14:01:09 | <Hecate> | also a good thing to use FreeBSD |
| 14:01:20 | <hellwolf> | Oh? |
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| 14:04:40 | <Hecate> | hellwolf: yeah, I'll be able to notice areas where the tools lack support for it |
| 14:05:05 | <hellwolf> | oh, as a means to dogfood it. kudos to that. |
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| 14:07:33 | <Hecate> | yus |
| 14:08:04 | <hellwolf> | More people should do that. Build and use it youself first. |
| 14:08:23 | <hellwolf> | Dogfooding is a good culture. |
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| 17:15:50 | <lxsameer> | have you tried the streamly library? if yes, how was your experience in general? |
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| 17:40:56 | <Rembane> | Is it that library that's really cool and very hard to understand? |
| 17:42:08 | <Rembane> | Hm... nope, I was thinking of machines. Is this library you're thinking of lxsameer? https://hackage.haskell.org/package/streamly |
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| 18:03:09 | <EvanR> | machines is nearly alien technology |
| 18:05:57 | <Rembane> | Yeah, I think humanity will reach another golden age if we understand that library. |
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| 18:08:59 | <hellwolf> | o_o |
| 18:11:08 | <EvanR> | call that egyptologist guy from stargate who could read any alien text |
| 18:12:10 | <Rembane> | Indeed. |
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| 18:29:42 | <dolio> | What sort of questions about it do you have? |
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| 19:11:51 | <EvanR> | here's one. Is it at all useful |
| 19:12:16 | <EvanR> | snazzy isn't always practical, like comonads |
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| 19:24:04 | <dolio> | Well, I don't know about that. I haven't tried using the Haskell version for anything. |
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| 19:26:00 | <dolio> | I did help write something that used a Scala analogue of the same thing written concurrently. |
| 19:26:47 | <dolio> | It probably works strictly better in Haskell, if I had to guess. |
| 19:28:02 | <dolio> | It doesn't seem like that's a question designed to help you understand the library, though. |
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| 22:03:22 | <sm> | @where+ welltypedcourse https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLD8gywOEY4HauPWPfH0pJPIYUWqi0Gg10 Well-Typed's Introduction To Haskell course |
| 22:03:22 | <lambdabot> | Nice! |
| 22:07:53 | <EvanR> | lol lambdabot approves |
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| 22:22:19 | <sm> | lambdabot loves me 😍 |
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All times are in UTC on 2024-11-15.